dblock1

iTrader: (15)

Is it bad to leave the key in the "START" position and jump the ignition terminal on the starter coil. I have no signal to my starter from the ignition, so I have to start it this way. I just use a screwdriver. The car does not seam to start up in a healthy manor at all and was wndering if this was ok to do temperaraly of course??

f550maranello2

iTrader: (2)

should be ok.... get the starter signal fixed.. lazy

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

It's fine, won't (read: shouldn't) cause a problem.

dblock1

iTrader: (15)

This only hapens when its freezing cold outside but once she worms up its no problem..

Not lazy just 13 degrees outside. Changed in the past 2 weeks:
-starter
-ignition control
-entire engine grounding
-cleaned and anti-oxidized transmission to motor bolts (for grounding)

still nothing when its cold???

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

Theft system relay or circuit, inhibitor relay or circuit (if automatic needs to be in park or neutral) and ignition switch could all prevent activation of the starter. You are bypassing all these when you jump the starter with the screwdriver.

dblock1

iTrader: (15)

(5 spd)
Ya i thought about all of these. I removed my anti-theft relay from my alarm and the inhibitor relay and when i tried to turn the car over it did something completely different then when i tried with the relay installed, B/c i got a different action i dont believe its eithere relay.

Litteraly this only hapens when its freezing outside. Some pice of metal shrinks and looses contact not allowing it to start but once it worms up I have no problem starting it. At first I thought it was the solenoid freezing but thats not the case =( bviosely since im jumping it!!!
HHHEEELLLPPP

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

Below is the starting system description from the FSM, it appears that you are not getting 12VDC to energize the starter plunger (to the black/yellow wire on starter). Don't know how handy you are with a voltmeter but this is what I would check. If you measure the values from these points to ground with the key in the start position I may be able to tell you what is causing your problem. It definitely should be something in the circuits described. Hope this helps.
M/T MODELS
For models with theft warning system
Power is supplied at all times
through 30A fusible link (letter h , located in the fuse and fusible link box)
to ignition switch terminal 1 .
With the ignition switch in the START position, power is supplied
through terminal 5 of the ignition switch
to clutch interlock relay terminal 3 .
With the ignition switch in the ON or START position, power is supplied
through 10A fuse [No. 17 , located in the fuse block (J/B)]
to theft warning relay terminal 1 .
With the ignition switch in the START position, power is supplied
through 7.5A fuse [No. 33 , located in the fuse block (J/B)]
to theft warning relay terminal 3 .
If the theft warning system is not triggered, power is supplied
through theft warning relay terminal 4
to clutch interlock relay terminal 1 .
When the clutch pedal is depressed, ground is supplied to clutch interlock relay terminal 2 through the clutch
interlock switch and body grounds M13 , M73 and M111 .
The clutch interlock relay is energized and power is supplied
from terminal 5 of the clutch interlock relay
to terminal 1 of the starter motor windings.
The starter motor plunger closes and provides a closed circuit between the battery and the starter motor. The
starter motor is grounded to the cylinder block. With power and ground supplied, the starter motor operates.
If the theft warning system is triggered, terminal 2 of the theft warning relay is grounded and power to the
clutch interlock relay is interrupted.
For models without theft warning system
Theft warning relay acts just as a path circuit between 7.5A fuse [No. 33 , located in the fuse block (J/B)] and
clutch interlock relay.

dblock1

iTrader: (15)

sweet thanks ill try this tomorrow ill let u know the results

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

Of course it is getting warmer so if the car starts it's going to be harder to find the problem.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

Ignition switch, common problem with 4th gens.
If your jumping the starter and it works, then the starter is fine.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

I agree could be the ignition switch but the clutch interlock or theft system can also prevent it from starting. dblock1 if you make no progress and don't find anything you should consider changing the ignition switch. I understand it's easy to change and it does not cost much so you are not out much time or money if it does not fix your problem. Also make sure that depressing the clutch activates the cluch inhibit relay. You may also be able to switch out the clutch inhibit relay and theft relay temporarily to make sure they are not at fault. You have two relay boxes under the hood, some of these relays are interchangeable, that may help in troubleshooting.

dblock1

iTrader: (15)

Ya I definetly changed this I stated it as "ignition control" in post #4. I figured it would save time changing this first.
My clutch depressin switch is by-passed under the dash. The wires are spliced together I dont know though, but i respliced them for insurance. Nopike do you have a picture of the front relay box bye the battery I dont have a cover and cant see whats what. I think I will swap the similar relays on the other side to see if that helps.
Today was fairly cold 30 deg. but i had minimum problem starting, only a slight (1/2 second) delay

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

dblock1

iTrader: (15)

Thanks Pmohr!!!

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

No problem. I took the pic a few years ago.

There's a few more 'helpful' pics on my LJ gallery that I update very...sporadically.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

I believe the relays are designed so you can only swap out the exact same type, anything else will not fit.

dblock1

iTrader: (15)

Alright I got sidetracked today with doing maximaboys led switches so I didnt get anything new taken care of.
Yesterday I removed all the crap frm under my dash including: 2 un-used fuse blocks and some freeky wireharnes clip thingy I think came from a chapman lock from the PO. I also re-spliced any spliced that i could find related to the alarm and ignition
I plan on finding all the terminals and links from post #7, remembering where they are, and waiting till it hapens again.
I did switch my relays but once again it was warm and would'nt of hesitated anyway.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

You mean that you have not fixed it yet? lol. Let me know if you have any luck.

dblock1

iTrader: (15)

Alright Alright. So far I figured it out, it hase not hit subzero temperatures yet but I havent had any problems since fixing it. One of the connectors for the clutch interlock relay was oxidized. I bought another bran new relay and when installing it i noticed that there was crap inside just one of the prongs in the relay box. I broke out the cleaner and a file and went to work, and havent had the problem since......
Thanks for all the help!!!