infinitiScott

Wow, that sounds cool. I'd really like to know more about the PC interface cable. I will do some research. It would be terrific if the cable would allow me to get trouble codes off the car via my laptop. What's the software required?

Also, what EFIE's are you using (link?)

Lastly, how do you bypass the knock sensor and what is your mpg after all these mods?

Kadantsev

iTrader: (3)

You can get one here: http://www.eagle-research.com/products/pfuels.html

black_maxed95

iTrader: (41)

krrz350...these o2 sensor enhancers dont lean out the engine, they return the engine to normal afr's. The HHO generators produce alot more oxygen in the exhaust so the engine thinks its running lean, so then the engine dumps fuel in so the o2 sensors read a correct value. But actually the engine is now running rich (but the o2 sensors thinks its fine). The o2 sensors dont know the engine is fed HHO. The o2 sensor enhancers make it so the sensors read less oxygen in the exhaust, so the engine doesnt dump in the extra fuel. So with an HHO generator and o2 sensor enhancers, you should ideally continue to run a standard afr.

Kadantsev

iTrader: (3)

^^^ ^^^

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

Laplogger: Good price and entirely useful. Performs all sorts of useful things.

EFIE link is above

MPG after mods is about 24 around town and 31-32 highway. If I really focus on saving gas, I can do 27 around town and 33 highway. Bypassing the knock sensor simply involves grounding it away from the engine. That way it can't hear anything and thus always runs with optimum timing. Of course, I can now only run premium 91 or above. If for some odd reason I couldn't get 91, I can always open my hood and unplug the sensor (which is now attached to my wire loom) which would force the car to run in safe mode.

infinitiScott

Those are great mpg numbers....

I always run 87. Seems like the mpg gains would be lost with the increased cost of the premium grade fuel, no?

What happens if you run 87? Just have to reset CEL?

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

So you've used an OBD-II scanner to moniter your fuel trims to verify this?

black_maxed95

iTrader: (41)

no I havent, Im not saying I have everything figured out, I was just saying ideally what one should hope to happen.

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

Absolutely not. Given that premium is mostly $0.15 above regular, we can calculate that a tank of 16 gallons costs $2.40 more than regular. I've never personally run 87 in my car, but I have had a bad knock sensor which reverts the car to 87 mode. So I can tell you that my mpg with a bad knock sensor was 18 city and 24 highway. So, lets take my city mileage, multiply 16 gallons of gas, and you get 288 miles per tank. Now, lets take 24mpg, which is what I get with premium, and multiply it by 16 gallons. You get 384 miles. Thats a 96 mile difference for $2.40 or half a gallon of gas.

infinitiScott

Makes sense, but I was not aware of the fact that the car can "revert to 87 mode". What's the best way to check whether you are in "87 mode"? I

Is their a cheap diagnostic handheld device to get codes off the car? I really wish automaker's would build these code readouts into the information system via dashboard readout.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

And I'm just saying you're basing that info on what the hafc company says.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

There's a screw on the side of the ecu, check stickies

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

^Autozone will also read your codes for free, but probably will not reset codes due to a lawsuit.

mowgli29

iTrader: (21)

So then you disconnect the battery for a little while

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

^ah yes...but then you have to reset your clock...think of the horror!

mowgli29

iTrader: (21)

OMG forgot about that...and if you have an aftermarket head unit...there are TWO clocks!

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Lol, you guys do know it takes about 2-3 days to clear codes on a maxima via the battery method right?

mowgli29

iTrader: (21)

What kind of "maxima" do YOU have?! lol, I've done it overnight before...and I thought that was overkill

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

His maxima remembers its codes....its sentient.

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

So here's my crappy picture of the generator assembly. I had no problem making it fit and the assembly itself is pretty solid. A special thanks goes out to In-N-Out for providing tasty burgers to fuel my late night efforts (bottom left corner)



Either tonight or tomorrow morning, I will run the unit and start getting it ready to install on the car. I'll be using KOH, no baking soda or salt. I will try to get more pictures of the completed unit when I can.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

I will pwn you noob.

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

^

Here is a picture of my unit, zip ties are temporary until the silicon dries. Just started using the unit and its producing a good amount of hyrdrogen. Supposedly, as I use the unit longer it will begin to produce more hydroxy as the impurities are sweated from the stainless steel. So we will see.

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

Nice progress guys, I installed my rough construction test unit, but for some reason whenever I have my test solution and get about 10 amps, I install it in the car and the amps end up going to 30+ in a matter of minutes. I have a 30A resettable fuse so when it gets hot it just cuts the current until it cools back down. I'm using Crystal Drano and water minus the aluminum chips btw. What are you guys using to regulate voltage? Cause my test battery is down to around 11.8 volts and the car running is 14.4. When hydrogen is being produced the car does seem to run smoother though.

zim5004

The stats that the video on the first link show are wrong because he changes the inflation on the tires so that part of the data is wrong.

tavarish

iTrader: (27)

wow, people will do anything when they have to pay more at the pump.

I guarantee you the money and time you spent on this mod could have gone to buying some gas, and you wouldve come out with better mpgs.

black_maxed95

iTrader: (41)

most of the people doing this arent necassarily only doing it to save money. Im messing around with the idea because I like tinkering with gadgets and Im sorta looking at it like a hobby. You spend money on hobbys, just like modding a car.

Just like putting a performance exhaust on your car...the cost of an exhaust system will take a along time to equal the amount of money you save on the slight mpg inscrease.

You could go over to the all motor forum and say "wow, people will do anything just to get a tiny bit more out of an engine"...its all modding, to each his own.

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

Seriously, how awesome will it be when you lift up your hood and people ask, "What is that?" Your response: "Oh that, it's nothing, I'm just running my engine off of hydrogen."

And BTW Mercedes has been talking about building a hydroxy generator using an aluminum gallium compound as an inducer rather than electricity.

O and lastly, if we took tavarish's advice, we would still be using horses. Because all that time and money spent to develop an engine could have been better spent buying hay to feed the horses.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Not that awesome if they were knowledgable enough they would say: "Ha, you fell for that scam."

mowgli29

iTrader: (21)

...or, "Wow, what's that crappy looking, rigged, POS container-ish contraption waiting to explode?"

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

If I bought it, yes. But since I made it, its not a scam, its an experiment.

Water doesn't explode.

black_maxed95

iTrader: (41)

you only fall for the 'scam' if you buy the $200+ kits they sell online. But since we are building our own devices, what scam are you talking about?
I could say the same thing about 90% of the other contraptions people on this site come up with.


Why do you guys have to hate? You are bashing an idea that you are not willing to try or accept. What if in the end this all works out with proven mpg and hp gains? then Im sure alot of people will be more accepting. In the end if this doesnt work out, I will say, 'oh well, it was a fun $50 project, atleast i didnt waste $300 on some camshafts that I could never get around to installing'----which I see ALL the time in the classifieds....go bash them and tell them they wasted their money.

black_maxed95

iTrader: (41)

also there have already been several 'maxima based' reports that doing this mod creates a smoother, quieter engine. There are no numbers yet but positive results are already pretty clearly expected.

mowgli29

iTrader: (21)

haha

I understand where you're coming from here. I suppose I'll keep my mouth shut until we see some conclusive results...who knows, maybe this will work well and I'll end up eating my words.
(ps: I'll have less than $200 in my cams and I'll actually install them )

sorry for cluttering the thread...I'll watch from a distance

black_maxed95

iTrader: (41)

since there are so many haters I got my **** together today and got my final design working and connected it to my car. Heres a youtube video of it in my living room testing it out. With my new design I got alot more output than my previous design. also now I have an arrestor that works (i tested it by lighting the gas with a lighter). Its a pretty cool setup and its definately not some hackjob like I mostly see. No water bottles or 2 liters used here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5uZILIzYPk

anyways, I know most of you are more concerned about it on my car. first I noticed it produces maybe 50% more gas than off the charger so thats a plus. then when connecting it to my intake manifold, the engine immediately got quieter. It sounds like its gonna stall but the rpms dont change so its not stalling, it just greatly reduces the engine noise. I didnt drive with it, I dont have a way to secure it in the engine bay yet.
Another observation was that within the 5-8mins I had it connected to the engine running, the main cell reached about 110 degrees F. Not dangerous but something to keep an eye on.

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

^not good with the heat. try adjusting the amount of electrolyte.

But congrats on the initial test, I'm close to mounting it in my car as well.

Local361NYC

I have read this entire thread and have a few things to consider. Anyone think of installing an exhaust temperature sensor to see if you are burning too hot? Nice to increase fuel economy, but saving your engine from failure should be top prority.

I noticed on the hose routing diagram, the HHO outlet goes to a T fitting and one end of the fitting goes to the intake manifold and the other to the intake duct. The engine vacuum at idle will end up sucking in fresh air bypassing the MAF sensor. Maybe try installing a check valve of sort to the end going to the duct so fresh air cant be sucked through it.

The major hang-up I have with this system is the fact that at idle the engine vacuum is greatest and feeding off the HHO the most at this time. Can the generator produce enough gas to significantly feed the engine at other throttle positions?

I am interested in doing this because I hate how we are geting raped at the pump, but if all this contraption is doing is making the car run lean to increase fuel economy, then engine life will become extremely short. Good luck fellas.

black_maxed95

iTrader: (41)

running an HHO generator with no other modifications causes your engine to run rich, not lean. so it is safe to do so but you need to look into devices such as an EFIE inorder to run at a proper afr and to save gas.

rxm6

iTrader: (5)

No. I've read that the generator works best below 3k rpms, however above 3k, the engine begins to draw in more air than HHO. Whether or not this is true in a maxima has yet to be determined.

n0ypi

Disagree!
Yes, initially I spent more money, as like any other hobby. but it turned out better, and making money out of it, since friends who learned I have hho under the hood ordered their hho gen from me as well and helped them put it in.

not making mileage gain?... maybe just you, since you dont have any of this. I proven mileage gain on my car with hho.

Plus, we are helping spread awareness about alternative fuel source, and sending the message to the oil companies that they can not suppress this technology anymore since the cat is already out of the bag.

And at the same time we are helping mother nature by producing more Oxygen.

Also, We are having fun building the generator!

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

I ran with mine this weekend. I have an emanage blue in my car and a zeitronix wideband kit. My setup is not putting out much hho because it is only a test unit and I only used 4 plates inside 3" pvc. The afrs went up from the hho but down from ecu adding fuel. With the emanage I can subtract fuel so.... People are missing the point about hho, it is a gas, the engine can't run lean when it is constantly fed fuel. The hho is combustable. as for higher egts I will find out in a couple weeks when I install the egt gauge. I don't think the hho will drive it that much higher.
People think this is a scam cause they saw mythbusters, but rewatch the video and see if they added anything to the water, they didn't, that's where they went wrong, the hho that is usable by an engine comes from water based electrolyte, not just water by itself. The naysayers can keep paying for the Saudi Prince's car all they want.