coil pack blew up? pics
12-20-2008, 03:27 PM
#41
LOL I know that EXACT feeling. This is why i dread 4th gen maximas with weird check engine light problems at work lol.
Don't stress out too bad though bro, easiest way to do it (prob ghettoest too) is just to run a new wire from your ECM to the coil subharness. Its not horrible. Just find the wire comming out of the pin from the ECM connector thats bad, give yourself plenty of wire and cut it off leaving enough of the ecm pin wire to butt connect/solder a long wire to. Then poke a hole through the harness bulkhead boot with a long screwdrive, put the long wire through the hole carefully, try not to break it or damage the insulation, and wrap it around the stock harness with black tape. Then when you reach the coil subharness, locate the bad wire, chop off the old wiring leaving enough wire to connect your long wire to. Then just make it look clean by wraping black tape around the exposed wiring and such. And thats it!
Or you can go the right way about it and just unwrap the entire harness including the looming and search until you find the break
This can suck cuz alot of times the insulation isn't broken, its the wiring inside that is so its almost impossible to find unless you poke through the wire insulation checking continuity every 5-10mm at a time lol.
Don't stress out too bad though bro, easiest way to do it (prob ghettoest too) is just to run a new wire from your ECM to the coil subharness. Its not horrible. Just find the wire comming out of the pin from the ECM connector thats bad, give yourself plenty of wire and cut it off leaving enough of the ecm pin wire to butt connect/solder a long wire to. Then poke a hole through the harness bulkhead boot with a long screwdrive, put the long wire through the hole carefully, try not to break it or damage the insulation, and wrap it around the stock harness with black tape. Then when you reach the coil subharness, locate the bad wire, chop off the old wiring leaving enough wire to connect your long wire to. Then just make it look clean by wraping black tape around the exposed wiring and such. And thats it!
Or you can go the right way about it and just unwrap the entire harness including the looming and search until you find the break
This can suck cuz alot of times the insulation isn't broken, its the wiring inside that is so its almost impossible to find unless you poke through the wire insulation checking continuity every 5-10mm at a time lol.thanks for the idea mate!
12-20-2008, 03:29 PM
#42
Glad I could help. Just do yourself a favor and get a pretty good length wire, preferably at least 16 gauge and i'd say at least 10 feet long. Better to have enough than not enough.
12-20-2008, 05:06 PM
#43
The ground for the coil packs does not come from the ECU wiring so you won't find continuity from the ECU to any of the coil packs ground. If you are missing ground at your coil pack you can pick it up anywhere there is a ground point. You can do this with a very short wire. If possible please perform those resistance measurements that you did last time again to see if there is a change.
12-20-2008, 05:26 PM
#44
The middle wire which is black should read a short to ground the other two wires should not. Compare to another cylinder.
If the black (middle) wire does not read a short to ground you can strip off some of the insulation and attach an additional ground wire directly between the black wire and any good ground point, like a bolt attached to the engine or anywhere you see a bunch of black wires attached to the frame, motor or trans.
If the black (middle) wire does not read a short to ground you can strip off some of the insulation and attach an additional ground wire directly between the black wire and any good ground point, like a bolt attached to the engine or anywhere you see a bunch of black wires attached to the frame, motor or trans.
12-20-2008, 06:33 PM
#45
The middle wire which is black should read a short to ground the other two wires should not. Compare to another cylinder.
If the black (middle) wire does not read a short to ground you can strip off some of the insulation and attach an additional ground wire directly between the black wire and any good ground point, like a bolt attached to the engine or anywhere you see a bunch of black wires attached to the frame, motor or trans.
If the black (middle) wire does not read a short to ground you can strip off some of the insulation and attach an additional ground wire directly between the black wire and any good ground point, like a bolt attached to the engine or anywhere you see a bunch of black wires attached to the frame, motor or trans.
G4 .... check your PM's mate.
12-20-2008, 06:39 PM
#46
According to the FSM, it is pin 3 .... not the middle pin that should go to G. And there is a G signal sent from the ECU (that is why you don't have a seperate wire to G from each coil pack.) It's part of the feedback loop and without it, we see what happens.
G4 .... check your PM's mate.
G4 .... check your PM's mate.
Last edited by Nopike; 12-20-2008 at 06:41 PM.
12-21-2008, 12:28 AM
#47
I think G4's problem is a broken G wire. So ... G the ECU and G the coil pack ... as you said and I PM'd him at the same time LOL. Problem solved, all is good. - We hope!
12-21-2008, 08:25 AM
#48
I was expecting a short to ground of one of the signal wires as opposed to an open ground wire to cause this problem. But if that is what was found then it's wise to fix it. Lets hope for the best.
Last edited by Nopike; 12-21-2008 at 10:57 AM.
12-21-2008, 09:33 AM
#49
alright yeh, i'm just about to go back to advance auto and pick up my 3rd coil pack along with a pack of wires, good thing i have the warranty
i will let you guys know how it turns out. hoping everything will turn out well!
i will let you guys know how it turns out. hoping everything will turn out well!
12-22-2008, 11:23 AM
#51
well, after a day of driving around after i spliced in the new ground wire, about 30 minutes ago, the coil pack BLEW AGAIN!!!!!!!!! 
i stopped by a local auto shop and the tech told me its gotta be the spark plug after i told him of all the things i checked. so again, i stopped by advance auto and picked up my 4rth coil pack. THANK GOD FOR THE WARRANTY! along with the coil pack, i bought some NGK copper plugs.
any thoughts before i do this lol?
i stopped by a local auto shop and the tech told me its gotta be the spark plug after i told him of all the things i checked. so again, i stopped by advance auto and picked up my 4rth coil pack. THANK GOD FOR THE WARRANTY! along with the coil pack, i bought some NGK copper plugs.
any thoughts before i do this lol?
12-22-2008, 12:07 PM
#53
12-22-2008, 05:49 PM
#54
alright well heres what the plug looked like when i removed it. if you ask me, seems like your normal wear condition.
and i rechecked all the wires for the coil harness. thats including the following for cylinder 2:
B) Search for malfunctioning circuit, voltage b/t pin 3 and ground: 0.43V although the FSM states it should be around 0.01 - 0.1V but cylinders 4 and 6 read close to the same so i didn't think much of it.
C) Check power supply, voltage b/t pin 1 and ground: 11.86V
D) Check ground circuit b/t pin 2 and ground: continuity exists
E) Check continuity b/t pin 3 and ecu: continuity exists (wasn't before but now fixed)
so now it can't be the harness. so i'm hoping it is indeed the spark plug but dear Lord if it explodes again, could there be any other possibilities?
and i rechecked all the wires for the coil harness. thats including the following for cylinder 2:
B) Search for malfunctioning circuit, voltage b/t pin 3 and ground: 0.43V although the FSM states it should be around 0.01 - 0.1V but cylinders 4 and 6 read close to the same so i didn't think much of it.
C) Check power supply, voltage b/t pin 1 and ground: 11.86V
D) Check ground circuit b/t pin 2 and ground: continuity exists
E) Check continuity b/t pin 3 and ecu: continuity exists (wasn't before but now fixed)
so now it can't be the harness. so i'm hoping it is indeed the spark plug but dear Lord if it explodes again, could there be any other possibilities?
12-22-2008, 07:08 PM
#55
I realize the plug may be a long shot but plugs are cheap and easy to change. You can change just the one if you like. I have learned from troubleshooting electronics over the years is when in doubt try the cheap and easy stuff first. Sometimes you just have to work thru the process of elimination especially when your equipment and knowledge is limited.
It could be the ECU or wiring or even something that you may have done even. This can be a difficult problem to troubleshoot especially if you are trying to do it over the web. The resistance readings that you provided 10 days(?) ago were good you should still measure approximately the same values, if not that can point to the problem.
It could be the ECU or wiring or even something that you may have done even. This can be a difficult problem to troubleshoot especially if you are trying to do it over the web. The resistance readings that you provided 10 days(?) ago were good you should still measure approximately the same values, if not that can point to the problem.
Last edited by Nopike; 12-22-2008 at 07:12 PM.
12-22-2008, 07:19 PM
#56
I realize the plug may be a long shot but plugs are cheap and easy to change. You can change just the one if you like. I have learned from troubleshooting electronics over the years is when in doubt try the cheap and easy stuff first. Sometimes you just have to work thru the process of elimination especially when your equipment and knowledge is limited.
It could be the ECU or wiring or even something that you may have done even. This can be a difficult problem to troubleshoot especially if you are trying to do it over the web. The resistance readings that you provided 10 days(?) ago were good you should still measure approximately the same values, if not that can point to the problem.
It could be the ECU or wiring or even something that you may have done even. This can be a difficult problem to troubleshoot especially if you are trying to do it over the web. The resistance readings that you provided 10 days(?) ago were good you should still measure approximately the same values, if not that can point to the problem.
12-22-2008, 07:26 PM
#58
well i'm going to go drive around for the next day or 2 at least and see how it holds up w/ the new plug. the past 3 coil packs life expectancy was around 1-3 days till it exploded.
12-22-2008, 11:33 PM
#59
swap plugs with the next cylinder and see if the problem transfers as well ,I think you've got a bad plug. What brand plugs are you running? If the plug isn't allowing the spark to jump the gap it's gonna find another way to ground. It's like getting struck by lightning and it blows your joints(knees, elbows, etc) apart, trying to get to ground!
01-03-2009, 12:07 AM
#63
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12
Coil Blow
A coil blows due to excessive current. Most likely cause of excessive current is that coil output is shorted to ground. One coil output goes to the spark plug the other to the colored (not red or black) wire with stripe, on your coil connector. Make sure that neither of these two are shorted to ground. Compare these readings to surrounding coils/plugs.
Yes the indication does look like excessive current, overheating the windings of the transformer causing expansion and breakage of the casing.
But....not from a ground. In fact, just the opposite. Because of the way these coils work, the voltage at the power transistor pin is generally 0. The power transistor is a NPN transistor and only conducts +12v through the coil when the Power transistor pin (IB) has 4v applied by the ECM just prior to firing of the plug and only for a very very short time. In this way, the coil is usually at rest and not overheating.
It sounds like in this case the coil is ALWAYS energized by the ECM and as such +12v is always passing through the coil and causing it to overheat.
If you have added anything to the system that affects the ECM output to this coil, I suspect this is the cause.
To check for this, turn the ign to "on" and check for voltage on the pin labeled IB and you should have no voltage. Then run at idle and check the voltage at the same pin at idle and it should read an average value of around 0.2v. If the voltage at this time is higher than 0.2v (which is what I suspect) then any coil will burn up in this position.
Mike
01-03-2009, 12:17 AM
#64
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12
Pin confusion
According to the FSM, it is pin 3 .... not the middle pin that should go to G. And there is a G signal sent from the ECU (that is why you don't have a seperate wire to G from each coil pack.) It's part of the feedback loop and without it, we see what happens.
G4 .... check your PM's mate.
G4 .... check your PM's mate.
No, pin 3 is to ECM, Pin 1 is +12v, and Pin 2 (middle ) is GROUND.
Mike
01-03-2009, 12:19 AM
#65
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12
Plugs?
01-03-2009, 03:36 PM
#66
01-04-2009, 11:11 AM
#67
I agree the plug would logically not be a likely cause of this problem. But considering the plug is part of that circuit, you can get one for $3 and it takes 5 minutes to change, why not. So far can't argue with the results.
If there is one thing that I have learned in troubleshooting electronics and other problems over the years it is that when in doubt try the cheap and easy stuff first. You may be pleasantly surprised and you may save yourself a lot of time and money.
Good point about the coil firing signal always being on. The firing signal may be on because it is shorting to another signal wire. G4nismo, hopefully the problem is solved, if not disconnect of that Suprastick would probably be next.
If there is one thing that I have learned in troubleshooting electronics and other problems over the years it is that when in doubt try the cheap and easy stuff first. You may be pleasantly surprised and you may save yourself a lot of time and money.
Good point about the coil firing signal always being on. The firing signal may be on because it is shorting to another signal wire. G4nismo, hopefully the problem is solved, if not disconnect of that Suprastick would probably be next.
Last edited by Nopike; 01-04-2009 at 11:26 AM.
01-04-2009, 04:48 PM
#68
I agree the plug would logically not be a likely cause of this problem. But considering the plug is part of that circuit, you can get one for $3 and it takes 5 minutes to change, why not. So far can't argue with the results.
If there is one thing that I have learned in troubleshooting electronics and other problems over the years it is that when in doubt try the cheap and easy stuff first. You may be pleasantly surprised and you may save yourself a lot of time and money.
Good point about the coil firing signal always being on. The firing signal may be on because it is shorting to another signal wire. G4nismo, hopefully the problem is solved, if not disconnect of that Suprastick would probably be next.
If there is one thing that I have learned in troubleshooting electronics and other problems over the years it is that when in doubt try the cheap and easy stuff first. You may be pleasantly surprised and you may save yourself a lot of time and money.
Good point about the coil firing signal always being on. The firing signal may be on because it is shorting to another signal wire. G4nismo, hopefully the problem is solved, if not disconnect of that Suprastick would probably be next.
i just went ahead and changed out all the other plugs as well
01-05-2009, 10:24 AM
#70
I don't think anyone mentioned this.
Did you check to make sure the little spring inside the tube that runs from the coil to the plug was in straight? I got the spring in the tube **** eyed one time and it arced from that same spot on the coil. Luckily I fired it up before I put the coil cover back on and it looked like a friggin thunderstorm in there. I'm not a huge fan on the coil-on plug ignitions (six coils $ >> 1 coil $), but those suckers will arc dam near a foot. A lotta power.
It sounds like you got it all straightened out, but ALWAYs run the engine before you put the coil covers back on. There could be a little arcing when you first put it in, but it may take a while to burn the coil.
Did you check to make sure the little spring inside the tube that runs from the coil to the plug was in straight? I got the spring in the tube **** eyed one time and it arced from that same spot on the coil. Luckily I fired it up before I put the coil cover back on and it looked like a friggin thunderstorm in there. I'm not a huge fan on the coil-on plug ignitions (six coils $ >> 1 coil $), but those suckers will arc dam near a foot. A lotta power.
It sounds like you got it all straightened out, but ALWAYs run the engine before you put the coil covers back on. There could be a little arcing when you first put it in, but it may take a while to burn the coil.
Last edited by 96gxe5spd; 01-05-2009 at 10:29 AM.
01-07-2009, 05:16 PM
#71
update:
after about 2 weeks of driving around since i replaced all the spark plugs, same coil pack blew this morning. this is the 4rth time this has happened. i'm taking it to a shop tomm. i'm kinda fed up with it. if anyone have other useful inputs, please let me know.
after about 2 weeks of driving around since i replaced all the spark plugs, same coil pack blew this morning. this is the 4rth time this has happened. i'm taking it to a shop tomm. i'm kinda fed up with it. if anyone have other useful inputs, please let me know.
01-07-2009, 05:20 PM
#72
If you want to continue disconnect that Suprastick from the ECU. The only other possibilities are the wiring and the ECU. Hopefully your mechanic is good and has the test equiptment and knowledge to work on this type of electrical problem. Good luck, let us know what happens.
01-07-2009, 11:24 PM
#73
Im thinkin you might have a cross short in your wiring harness. I would disconnect the coil subharness connecter and the ECU connector and test for continuity at each pin on the subharness connector and to its correct pin at the ECU connector, then once that turns out good, see if there is continuity between that same coil pin and other pins on the ECU. If no continuity is found then i'd move onto the next coil subharness pin and again test the pins at the ECU, only 1 ECU pin should have continuity. In the even you find more than 1 pin has continuity to a single coil pin then maybe you have a cross short. But this maybe over your head, best bet is to bite the bullet and just have a pro look at it.
01-08-2009, 05:00 PM
#74
Im thinkin you might have a cross short in your wiring harness. I would disconnect the coil subharness connecter and the ECU connector and test for continuity at each pin on the subharness connector and to its correct pin at the ECU connector, then once that turns out good, see if there is continuity between that same coil pin and other pins on the ECU. If no continuity is found then i'd move onto the next coil subharness pin and again test the pins at the ECU, only 1 ECU pin should have continuity. In the even you find more than 1 pin has continuity to a single coil pin then maybe you have a cross short. But this maybe over your head, best bet is to bite the bullet and just have a pro look at it.
one thing i haven't really mentioned enough is, the coil pack is from ADVANCE AUTO PARTS, not a genuine nissan part.
but i noticed something really interesting about the advance auto ignition coil. will post pics later...
oh, i went ahead about a new nissan coil by the way...
Last edited by G4nismo; 01-08-2009 at 06:00 PM.
01-08-2009, 05:54 PM
#75
below is the coil from advance auto. its a BWD automotive brand. i asked advance if these are remanufactured or rebuilt and they said no. funny thing is, every one of the coils that i have used and replaced had the nissan emblem and some kind of part # on the top of the coil scratched off.
maybe they use dead nissan coils and rebuild them cheaply or something. maybe there power transistors aren't as same as the genuine nissan coils.
i went ahead and got another BWD coil (5th ignition coil) and i'm actually gonna install it in another cylinder and see if it blows up. if it does, then well theres my answer. maybe i should do a compression test as well...
maybe they use dead nissan coils and rebuild them cheaply or something. maybe there power transistors aren't as same as the genuine nissan coils.
i went ahead and got another BWD coil (5th ignition coil) and i'm actually gonna install it in another cylinder and see if it blows up. if it does, then well theres my answer. maybe i should do a compression test as well...
Last edited by G4nismo; 01-08-2009 at 06:29 PM.
01-15-2009, 06:39 AM
#78
alright well i did some resistance tests today but haven't gotten to the continuity diagnosis b/t the ecu harness and the coil harness yet.
Cylinder #2 is the one i'm having issues with the coils blowing up...
cylinder #2:
pin #1 resistance to ground: 38.3 ohms.......
cylinder #4:
pin #1 resistance to ground: 38.5 ohms......
cylinder #6:
pin #1 resistance to ground: 38.5 ohms......
do those seem alright? pretty close and consistent if you ask me (except for the last part).
is there still a need to check for the continuity?
Cylinder #2 is the one i'm having issues with the coils blowing up...
cylinder #2:
pin #1 resistance to ground: 38.3 ohms.......
cylinder #4:
pin #1 resistance to ground: 38.5 ohms......
cylinder #6:
pin #1 resistance to ground: 38.5 ohms......
do those seem alright? pretty close and consistent if you ask me (except for the last part).
is there still a need to check for the continuity?
Here's some I ideas I suggest you try, G4Nismo. I edited your response above to highlight where the issue may be.
Cylinder 2 shows to be the path of least resistance. It's 0.2 ohms less resistant than the rest of the circuit so any excessive charge is bound to rush that direction and hence continually fry that plug.
Before the having a pro diagnose what may turn out to be a expensive electrical problem solving adventure, try adding a ground kit to your car, or clean the major ground contacts. Two that I can think of off the bat are the connection to the alternator and the negative battery cable that attaches to the tranny bell housing. There are others which the FSM points out.
Also, another thing to look at is the positive battery connection. I once had a Sentra where the +ve battery cable has 2 connections. This setup is common in Nissans and other cars. 1 beefy wire to handle the major current and then a second wire that goes to some relays sitting next to the battery. On my car that 2nd smaller connection was so corroded that the headlights would dim randomly and the idle would get severely shaky every so often. Once I cleaned that connection that car acted like it was brand new.
Electrical problems can get complicated, so its best to start with the basic clean connections, especially the ground connections on an older car because they get oxidized over time.
Hope this helps.
DW
01-16-2009, 11:07 AM
#79
Any updates for us ???? I think Mike has it .... don't know why nobody thought of that sooner. Good post mate and welcome to the .Org! 
I think the reason Advanced uses the "Nissan" tubes is because it would cost more to make new ones -vs- using the old tubes, the wiring and coil pack are likely new parts, but the boot is probably not.
I think the reason Advanced uses the "Nissan" tubes is because it would cost more to make new ones -vs- using the old tubes, the wiring and coil pack are likely new parts, but the boot is probably not.
01-16-2009, 06:38 PM
#80
Here's some I ideas I suggest you try, G4Nismo. I edited your response above to highlight where the issue may be.
Cylinder 2 shows to be the path of least resistance. It's 0.2 ohms less resistant than the rest of the circuit so any excessive charge is bound to rush that direction and hence continually fry that plug.
Before the having a pro diagnose what may turn out to be a expensive electrical problem solving adventure, try adding a ground kit to your car, or clean the major ground contacts. Two that I can think of off the bat are the connection to the alternator and the negative battery cable that attaches to the tranny bell housing. There are others which the FSM points out.
Also, another thing to look at is the positive battery connection. I once had a Sentra where the +ve battery cable has 2 connections. This setup is common in Nissans and other cars. 1 beefy wire to handle the major current and then a second wire that goes to some relays sitting next to the battery. On my car that 2nd smaller connection was so corroded that the headlights would dim randomly and the idle would get severely shaky every so often. Once I cleaned that connection that car acted like it was brand new.
Electrical problems can get complicated, so its best to start with the basic clean connections, especially the ground connections on an older car because they get oxidized over time.
Hope this helps.
DW
Cylinder 2 shows to be the path of least resistance. It's 0.2 ohms less resistant than the rest of the circuit so any excessive charge is bound to rush that direction and hence continually fry that plug.
Before the having a pro diagnose what may turn out to be a expensive electrical problem solving adventure, try adding a ground kit to your car, or clean the major ground contacts. Two that I can think of off the bat are the connection to the alternator and the negative battery cable that attaches to the tranny bell housing. There are others which the FSM points out.
Also, another thing to look at is the positive battery connection. I once had a Sentra where the +ve battery cable has 2 connections. This setup is common in Nissans and other cars. 1 beefy wire to handle the major current and then a second wire that goes to some relays sitting next to the battery. On my car that 2nd smaller connection was so corroded that the headlights would dim randomly and the idle would get severely shaky every so often. Once I cleaned that connection that car acted like it was brand new.
Electrical problems can get complicated, so its best to start with the basic clean connections, especially the ground connections on an older car because they get oxidized over time.
Hope this helps.
DW
as to your post, do you really think -0.2 ohms would make a difference?
i dunno, even though its minor i could actually see what you mentioned happen. over the course of driving time, all those excessive current can lead to that less resistance cylinder thus ultimately reach the coil's culmination point resulting in the explosive matter. i still think -0.2 ohms is insignificant...
i do have a grounding kit on the car currently, though i don't have some of the points grounded where you pointed out. i have 1 wire that might be able to reach to the alternator bolt, depending on which one. a pic would help
if you don't mind, or a more detailed description, same for the neg cable to the bell housing (never looked at that stuff so i have no clue).all my battery connections are pretty clean and corrosion free.
since you also mentioned headlights, i do have an issue with one of them. the passenger harness ALWAYS had an issue, even after i installed new headlights. it would always cut on and off if i touch the harness connector.
previous connectors blew but the current one still looks ok but yet has that on/off issue. headlight bulbs are stock...basically the ones that came with the r34 headlights, nothing fancy,ricey hyperblue xenon crap. should i bump up the fuse amp?
yes, i hate electrical issues, seems like i'm having a lot of them recently...