ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

Would you happen to know from experience that coilovers don't improve handling that much? At this point it just sounds like you're just talking out of your ***.

With the right coilovers and even struts/springs, you can absolutely adjust camber. Like I said, you'll learn.

Maybe auto-x guys should start running GC/AGX set ups since they're over spending on performance parts that don't improve handling that much

What a joke

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

slamming a car on coils ruins the suspension geometry. yes. however, coils help with traction when accelerating as well. cars on coils definitely feel planted...more so than cars on springs. my last car was on illuminas and springs. my friends car has blown k sports and the car definitely feels more planted than my old car. a good spring and strut combo is only a couple hundred shy of the price of coils which i feel is worth it. i'd much rather have 32-way adjustable coils, where I can set adjust the preload, dampening and rebound, height, and camber (front) to my needs. that 200 to 250 bucks is 5 tanks of gas...

when you look at the difference in price that way, it's really not all that much in the long run. just my two cents.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

Yes I know from listening to people who actually do it for a living and made their living from racing, not someone sticking up for coil-overs because thats what they prefer and everybodys doing it lol. Good lord read what I said! I said its not worth the price. They do improve handling, very much so. Worth the price if its a DD and thats the extent of your mods? hell no they arent. Slapping $800 coil-overs on your car to just drop it down 2.5"? you've made your car handle worse. This isnt my opinion. its a fact. The arch the wheel travels on and the angle and numerous other things matter much much more. When i'm done with my suspension ill put it up against anybody whose spent probably twice as much on coil-overs

MAXIMA_STYLE

iTrader: (21)

Ok well in reality...every one of us wastes money on a car that we will never keep our entire life...like i stated IMO coilovers for a daily driver is a good waste of 850-1900 bucks...but everyone likes to have their choices...i personally think some people just have coilovers on their car just to say"i got d2 coilovers,what you got?" Lol but to each their own really....i prefer looks/styling over anything so a moderate drop with lipkit and full retro leds kevlo tails....you know...things that make the car look better....thats where im at nowadays....

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

HID projector headlights > HID's in halogen housings that blind other drivers.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

all of that is right but when you put expensive coil-overs into the hands of people who don't know a thing about a high performance suspension and its geometry?(not you, in general with people that have more $ than snese)it all goes out the window. My only point is they are not worth the price if you don't compete for money. Again, NEED is different from WANT. I want $1500 coil-overs but I would rather use the money to have adjustable caster and camber as well and a japanese made control arm and end link. Basically im stupid for trying to make a 4th gen without independent rear handle well. Its my baby though and I want to give an M3 a run for its money. That is my project end goal, however unlikely it may be. in the end it will probably be cheaper to have bought one lol

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

as ****ty as having a rear beam is...i think a bigger limiting factor in the maxima's handling is the drivetrain layout. grip is everything.

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

I'm not stick up for coilovers. You're just talking crap that makes no sense and I'd rather have the correct info out there lol Here you go contradicting yourself again. Read what you write before you write it. Please and thank you.
When did I talk about lowering a car 2.5"? I think you're getting me mixed up with someone else. I'm dropping my car on coils pretty much where I had it on Eibach's/Illumina's. My suspension geometry should still pretty much be in check so it's not gonna handle worse and I'll still have full suspension travel with my KSport's that I got for $600 shipped. Continue to try to compare and argue please. This is fun.

95Maxed

Uhhh..... wtf is wrong with black on black? And retros are not rice...

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

i like your retrofit. i just wish you didn't have those chrome gxe door handles.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

Yea that is what I said, I wrote it lol? All along i've said it doesn't improve handling when thats all you do. its a fact. You cant argue with someone who doesn't have any actual information to share and just says "hey you contradicted yourself there!" Argue with yourself and ill keep working on my suspension that will outperform yours for about half the price. Research suspension geometry some if i'm making no sense. i'm done spoon feeding information on why coil-overs are a waste of money for DD's.

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

theoretically, spending money on anything that isn't maintenance is a waste of money for a daily driver. stock cars get you from point a to point b. whether they are an inch lower or not lol.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

si it is. mine is for fun so I try to save money where I can and get advice from people who know their stuff. For anyone in the ATL area check out Gran Turismo East for allignment and general suspension advice. Guys been racing his whole life

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

That is not a fact AT ALL lol And you have not spoon fed AT ALL. I've learned nothing from you and I suggest that no one listens to what you've said.

Half the price huh? I spent $600 on my coils. It looks like you're just about there with just the springs alone Have fun wasting money on parts that don't necessarily need to be replaced. I'll still out handle you with my coils set completely soft

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

We will see hopefully sooner rather than later. Im not getting into a price comparison either. My suspension will end up being over $1500 probably. However, my ENTIRE suspension will be overhauled as opposed to just 4 coils for the same price. Your coils vs my essentially re designed suspension......wont be fair but ill show you my tail-lights. and no they arent clears either

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

coils aren't 1500 though lol. they're a lot cheaper than 1500. i'm gonna overhaul my suspension for about 1500, that's including coils.

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

Oh, now you're not getting into a price comparison when you did several times before lmao First, anyone with coils on their DD is wasting their money. Then you were going to outperform me with paying half as much for your set up and now you're going to pay twice as much as I spent Oh boy. I won't even say it this time..

Good luck. Seriously, good luck.

Xfactor22

iTrader: (13)

I love my s. techs, they ride awesome with the illuminas, and next to cars with coilovers, my car looks at stock height, its NOT as low as everyone might think, but too low for people who dont want a low car.

A couple years ago, i spent close to $700 for my brand new illumina's and Tein S.tech Springs, with new top mounts and boots... Coilovers now seem VERY much more worth it since around $100 more could have got me a better drop with WAY more options as far as adjustments go, and the option to raise the car back up if i ever wanted to. The thing with Springs and struts is that once you get them, your done, if you dont like them... O well, its too late. And everyone here has their own opinion on the comfort and handling on different spring/strut setups, so its even harder to get a right opinion on what YOU like unless you have tried them all, so i say just dont take the risk and spend the little extra money and get more options, i wish i had understood this way back when, so i could have spent my money a little more wisely.

Xfactor22

iTrader: (13)

you can see my tail lights... i have LED's.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

I have researched what im doing for my suspension for almost a year now and finalized it after talking to a guy that has done suspensions his entire life(gran turismo east, shout out). I wish I could of got some nice coil-overs but like I said with the money ive saved(on new coil-overs keep in mind) I can now overhaul the entire suspension. Then in combination with my new hd axels by raxels? itll be lights out in the front

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

chris....I assumed you bought new coil-overs. my springs and struts will be about $700 installed. half the price of good new coil-overs by my count. are yours new for $600? probably not so not a good comparison. good lord I have to spell everything out here. and if what you said is all you've done? coil-overs? Thats why your so mad bc thats EXACTLY what i'm talking about, adding in $600 coils alone isnt going to achieve good handling. If thats all you got, then I look forward to our cornering testing :-)

Xfactor22

iTrader: (13)

Mine don't blind people!!

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

Decided to get into the price comparison again, huh?

Nope, bought coils that were used for a summer season but that doesn't matter. Mine will be $600 installed since I'll be doing the install myself. Even brand new, they'd be around $850 installed. More than good enough to me and I still spent less on a better set up.

Not a good comparison for you, yet you're still comparing..

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

you were kind enough to point them downward and as someone who has driven in front of you, you're absolutely correct lol.

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

I'll just have my coils and FSTB. I'll look forward to it as well.

I'm kind of worried. You're going to out handle be since you're getting Raxles

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

oh good lord I give up lol. well you got a really good deal then if you got semi-used ksport or d2's for $600. Suspension on a 4th gen is complicated as it is. This started bc you said they r garbage with KYB's and I think the opposite. I defended my opinion.

Xfactor22

iTrader: (13)

I'm sorry, but what coilovers cost $1400?? my brother got k-sports for $800, my younger brother got Basics for $900, and a friend of mine got BC's for $1000, all Brand new. I think the only coilovers that go for that much are the JIC's, and they don't even make them any more do they?

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

Yup, great deal.

And my statement still stands and the end of all of this. GC's with AGX's are garbage. Where's JSutter when you need him?

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

ok you all are right and im wrong im not spending my down time arguing why an entire suspension overhaul is better than coil-overs. we will settle on the track. and yes my raxles will put the power to the pavement much better than yours? you started it all, calling it garbage, and we will see whose set-up is garbage

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

tein SS's go for more, but i don't know if they make them for 4th gen's anymore...kinda like the JIC situation. and the BC RAM's are like 1300 i believe, but I'm just gonna get the BC BR's since they're only 1000 and the benefits of the RAM's aren't worth it for my uses.

D2's cost about 900 new as well.

Shock, were you pricing these on the manufacturers' websites? MSRP's are generally much higher than the actual market prices and that would explain this whole price confusion.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

yea simple google. I didnt want them so I didnt scour for the best prices. Seemed $1000 was lowest and went up to over $1200. that $200 or $300 could go for about 1.5 good control arms or pretty much all your bushings. Coils just dont seem to be worth the price and I could be wrong, but what happens if your struts blow? or a component fails? have to send it back? naw. Ill go with Eibach springs and AGX. In testing on other cars ive seen at road atlanta? the AGX come in when you want performance. might be uncomfortable when your not but im buying them for the performance, not comfort so I have to eat it there

VisciousMo

iTrader: (4)

Oh, you didn't mention he has been racing his WHOLE life. That changes the whole dynamic of your argument. Can't you see guys?

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

good control arms? we don't really have aftermarket options...definitely nothing adjustable and if you got custom control arms you'd pay a **** ton. bushings are cheap. so are quality tie rods. complete suspension overhaul with coils could be done for 1500.

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

If you read what I wrote, I explained what happens when a part fails. At least with KSport's, if I blow a coil or of there's a failure of some sort, they send a new one if I'm still under warranty and if not, I pay and they send it. Then I just have to rebuild it myself which is simple enough.

You'll learn that AGX's aren't the best performers either because the **** is dual adjustable and affects the compression all too much.

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

Absolutely correct.

max_dreamer

iTrader: (2)

So just a thought... Do you think that Nissan Engineer's designed the suspension geometry to only be correct at one specific height? Because you keep mentioning that it will mess up the geometry and steering arc if the car is lowered... If that were so then your coil-over shock suspension for $600 would also be ruining the suspension geometry... Your suspension travel will still allow the shock to depress over, lets sayyyy 3", and throw off the geometry, and thus ruining it...

Well I'm not an engineer but I'd have to say that's wrong. The reason the shock is at the angle it is, and the travel of the suspension components are what they are, is because it maintains the correct geometry the whole time, or is at least within the acceptable limits...

Well I'm one of those crazy guys that bought the $1500+ coilovers. And considering that I only changed the the dampening of the suspension, as well as lowering the center of gravity of my car, it would seem that I have made it better! There is less body roll (better handling), more predictable turn in/out (better handling), and far less reaction to road hazards (things like dips and pot holes)... Overall, I'd say a coilover, even a cheap one, would out perform any spring shock combo you could come up with...

Anybody agree?

EDIT: And if your changing your control arms and suspension components like you say you are, $20 says you end up setting them to stock positions after they are dialed in... Unless you only dial in for straight line or hard core racing like those left hand turners in NASCAR...

Oh, and flame me if I'm wrong, but I have the feeling engineer's didn't let me down...

MAXIMA_STYLE

iTrader: (21)

Wow this is still going...pure amusement...and yes there are 1500-1700 dollar co out there.... jic coils are still made and so expensive why?? The name?? I think thats the only reason...most foilovers are designed similiar...its all on spring rate dampening level adjustment and price... myself personally if inwas going to buy coilovers NEW id probably spring for a brand ive found on ebay...made by the same people that design jic but....the price....850 or so shipped...and....theyre BLACK.

WesCTR

iTrader: (2)

JIC's are the best coils made for the A32 chassis but they no longer make them for Maximas.

cashoit

Yo where IS Sutter? Lol he would put an end this debate to an real quick and say get KONIS. Period.

just go to the manufacturer website and see what they recommend for a drop on their strut. tokico recommends 1.3"F, so i went w/ 1.3". If KYB says the AGX's can handle more then the sturts will be fine.

But the lower u go the more u have to worry about breakin axles and other parts of the car from bottoming out. Dont bottom out. Get a mild drop and u dont have to worry bout that.

Coilovers are designed to handle large drops, not struts, per manufacturer's recommendation. So if u want to go low get coilovers. Like Chris sd, I wouldnt slam it low either, i would do like 1.7", cuz I dont want to bottom out.

2+" drop is for the track and hondas IMO

tigersharkdude

iTrader: (20)

agree with not wanting to SLAM it ^^

Im on s.techs and that is definitely low enough for me, I scrape the notch on the engine cradle occasionally, any lower and I'd be afraid of busting oil pans. Im kind of away from the city by about 15miles...some of the backroads are like