Greeting guru's - I have a unique problem that is being the devil to track down the problem on. Something on the ABS system on our 99 seems to be shot. We changed pads and bleed the system per instructions awhile ago. The brake pedal just got sloppier and softer through time though. Now, brakes are pretty inoperable altogether. You can not get the passenger rear, nor the driver front to even bleed. I've tried everything from opening the bleeder valve and having my girl pump the brakes to using a hand held vacuums pump to try to draw fluid down to the calipers. None of the above is working. The Drivers rear and passenger front brakes seem to work/bleed fine, but the car does not stop hardly at all with only 2 brakes...

I am now thinking the ABS actuator or the proportioning valve are bad. Both are not cheep and look to be a PITA to remove/replace. The easier/cheeper route (this car will not be with us much longer I feel...) seems it might be to replace the ABS system with the non ABS master and reroute a few shot brake lines. It looks like that is only a matter of replacing the master cylinder with a non ABS master and re-routing some brake lines from the actuator (octopus thing under the master) to the new non ABS master...

Don't flame me for removing a safety feature. I just want to know if it can be done, that and... if any of you have had a non-bleedable side to your ABS brake system before and have a simpler, cheeper or better solution? Thanks in advance for your wisdom and help!

 

Are you sure it's not a caliper or brake line issue? Did you try taking the line off the caliper to see if fluid was even reaching the caliper? I would check the basic hardware before jumping in and messing with the ABS system. Is your ABS light on?

 

An abs problem will NOT cause your symptoms...my abs light has been on over a year easily and my brakes all function as they should...if your pedal is spongy after bleeding you did it wrong...and for two of the 4 calipers not being "able" to be bled theres something else wrong and its not the abs... clogged or broken line..broken bleeder valve....you better check before removing abs parts because for one it is highly ILLEGAL and will get you in serious trouble if caught and two not needed cause abs is not your issue..its either a line or caliper problem man....and if you have inspection before you dump the car they will know whether or not it uas abs from factory and will not pass it unless" you know someone"....fix it the proper way dont hack it....its.not like your dealing with a radio...its how you STOP your car...not flaming just informing

 

Thank you - I did take the line off the rear caliper - it was dry and was impossible to pull fluid from even with the help of the hand held vacuum pump. The front driver side (brake systems run in pairs - one covers the drivers side front/passenger side rear - the other covers the passenger front/drivers rear)... that system, which pairs up to the passenger rear is also unbleedable. Something in the system that does that conversion is shot - seems easiest to switch over to a non-ABS master and avoid the cost/headache of trying to fix an ABS system on a 300K+ mile car (i.e. - worth very little). I just need to get it functional again...

 

Sounds to me as.if the brake system like you stated proportioning valve isnt functioning properly...or the master cylinder has clogged lines.of some sort... if those two calipers are bone dry they are.probably seized by now.also...id bring it somewhere to diagnose it beore ripping through ..cause it could be something small and cheap

 

The ABS system is designed in such a way that when it fails, you have normal brakes. With that in mind, the diagnosis should lean towards the brake system itself. Your ABS system is probably fine.

I don't have the answer, but I hope this gets you going in the right direction.

DW

 

It's not illegal to remove an ABS system. It is however a lot of work.
Just to make sure you are bleeding the brakes with the car off and preferably with the battery disconnected?
If so then the only components which could be bad are the master or actuator. Both are very cheap if you buy them from someone like myself.
It can't be the proportioning valve since that controls rear brakes only.

 

 

Jesus the misinformation in here...

Dwapeni and Maxima_Joe have your answers.

 

100% Correct... Its not illegal by any means, not to mention they couldnt tell unless they decoded the VIN. Our cars came from the factory without the ABS unless you added the option or had a GLE... The only thing inspection cares about is that you can stop in a reasonable distance at 20mph...

Sounds like you need to trace your lines piece by piece from the calipers and find out where the fluid is stopping. If its the ABS brick under the master cylinder then buy one from Joe or a local junk yard. Not that difficult. Removing ABS would require WAYYYYY more work then troubleshooting and fixing your current problem!

+1 all day

 

Anything safety related that came on the car is.illegal to remove abs system...airbags....seatbelts.... it just depends on the technician doin inspection whether.or.not he cares....maybe not in all states but most in new england it.is...juss sayin...

 

There is no proportioning valve on our brake system. Those were found on 80's GM junk.
Front to rear brake balance is achieved with the proper sized caliper, pad and disc.
The master cylinder has two seperate sections, one could be dead.
The ABS system has 2 lines in and 4 lines out.
With that said, it should be pretty simple to find out where your pressure loss is.
I'm leaning towards the master cylinder. Remove a line or 2 and you'll know in 5 minutes.

I find it very hard to believe a clog would be present on the presurized side (lines) of the hydraulic system. Pressures can be over 700 PSI which is plenty enough to dislodge some dirt build up.

 

I suppose it could be a state specific thing... But I was a state inspector for 2 n a half years in Texas and took the class 3 times... (not because I sucked at it but because I took breaks in those 2 n a half years and 6 months no inspections means you have to retake it.) But yeah, the only things that mattered were the wipers, seat belts, horn, and airbags not being deployed.

So, to the OP... Just double check with the local laws so you dont break them if you go the route of deletion. But like I said before, thats more hassle then fixing what youve got...

 

Ah now it comes out.

Don't speak for the other 49 states now mmk?

I can name about 6 where that doesn't matter off of the top of my head (TX, OK, KS, IA, NE, LA, ND, SD.... I can go on further...)

 

I'd like to thank everyone for their input. It was more appreciated than you know. In the end I was sitting at home on a Sunday afternoon and needed a working car by Monday morning. All the junk yards except the local pull it yourself were closed and no parts store in town had a ABS Master for sale. I went to the pull it yourself junk yard and they had a 96 Maxima which lo and behold - had a non ABS master. I pulled it, and carefully noted which line hooked to which output on the Master. Total cost of the used Master $9.00. I picked up some new DOT 3 fluid and one precut/flared line with a coupling (to mate two male ends together) for another $15 at the parts store. For kicks, asked the chap what a ABS Master would cost and was told they would have to order it and the cost was $89 when it finally got there in a couple days.

Got home, bench bleed the used non ABS Master. Disconnected every ABS electrical wire, disconnected the ABS octopus (actuator) and took the lines going from it to the wheels off, then pulled the entire unit from the car. Subsequently connected the steel brake lines going to the wheels to the now attached to the car, non-ABS Master (it bolted right on where the old one came off). Shazam - the non working brakes could bleed. Bleed the entire system, took it out for a spin and the car finally stops. Every ABS and traction control/slip light on the dash is now lit but... the car stops. It stops better than it has in a long time as the brakes had been fading for awhile. Not surprisingly, the tires will lock up and skid if you slam the brakes on...

I am not advocating that anyone do this conversion. It took the better part of a day, and was done out of necessity and budget. I know not having ABS or traction control working will suck but how long we will have this car is debatable and having one that is drivable - even if it is missing ABS or traction control is much better than not having a car to drive at all.

 

Glad you got it back on the road.
With that said, I believe your master cylinder was the culprit all along. For 89 bucks, you would have had a safer vehicle in the road. I do hope the coupling isn't a compression fitting, that's a huge issue for any brake system.

 

ABS is a band-aid for ignorant drivers anyway. Feather your brakes and don't lockthem up when turning and you'll be fine.

 

BandAid?
Sorry I have to disagree and actually that statement in itself is ignorant.
Your reaction to a sudden emergency situation which happens in just a second isn't going to be thought out braking.

ABS is a well developed system that in an emergency situation, allows you to stop quicker and maintain control of your vehicle.

It's been proven over and over again on test simulators with not just average Joe drivers, but with professional drivers as well.

Those are facts.

 

I'd like to see my car vs. an ABS one for lolz.

Someone come to Maxus and hit up the road course w/ me, ABS SHOWDOWNNNNNNNNNN.

 

Thats funny, because in my suspension and braking class in college, I was told the exact opposite. Proffesional drivers can react faster than a computer can detect, react, and mechanicaly actuate the pump and valving.

+1 Please bring a camera crew along.

 

Cmon guys. The ABS system can actuate each brake independently, and it will do it a gazzilion times faster than any human.

In the real world those are huge advantages for ABS. On the track, I guess not so much. The track is smooth and more predictable so the driver can better assess the braking need.

DW

 

Thats debatable at best.

In the real world there are both inexperienced drivers, and drivers that are well past there prime and should not drive anymore. So, yeah I'll give that.
For many people, ABS is both unnecesary and a hindrance.

 

Haven't you felt your ABS system when it's working? It's this rapid tingle you feel when hitting on the brake pedal. And, from the brochure for the 98 Maxima "....each wheel is monitored and activated individually for more accurate braking control."

Even if you take away the fact that each wheel is braking independently, a huge plus IMO, ABS is still better because it rapidly engages and disengages at speeds no human can match.

Granted, there are situations, perhaps the track, or dirt gravel roads where ABS is a hindrance, but keep in mind where most maximas spend their time.


Other than that I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then

DW