gt2carrera4

Creating a thread because I couldn't find any solutions in the 4th Gen HowTo's.

I have a '98 I30 with just over 200k miles which i've owned for about a year. Everything on the car is stock with the exception of miscellaneous OEM replacement parts (pads/rotors/expendables/etc.) through the years. The previous owner purchased it with 158k miles and I know him quite well. This is what's been happening.

1) Going over abrupt bumps/potholes, even small ones, the rear end of car makes this awfully loud crashing sound. It is much more noticeable as far as noise at low speeds. HOWEVER, if I lightly step on the brakes and apply gas to maintain speed the crashing sound is considerably reduced.

2) The parking brake does not work, period. Previous owner said this started around 180k but never addressed it since the car is an automatic. I could care less about the functionality of the parking brake, but since it's mechanically connected to the rear brake assembly there has got to be some correlation.

3) After putting the car on jackstands, I realized I had forgotten to loosen the lug nuts. I had a buddy hold down the brakes while I attempted to loosen them up a little bit, but the caliper/pads did not apply anywhere near enough pressure to allow me to loosen the nuts. There is fluid being sent through the lines, but apparently none/not much to the caliper.

We dropped it down, removed the wheel and discovered there is some play/looseness with the caliper (even with pressure applied to the rotor to keep it still). I can already tell that there is uneven pad wear, yet the rotors are not scored. However with zero brake pressure applied, I could also tell that the pad is making at least some contact with the rotor.

I am thinking that the RR caliper is frozen, yet I don't know how exactly what the correlation is between the crashing sounds/the apparent lack of rear brake effectiveness/broken parking brake. I also have yet to inspect the LR brake assembly.

Any troubleshooting advice would be GREATLY appreciated, I'd much rather get started with repairs in the right direction than waste time removing/re-installing parts that don't need to be addressed.

TL;DR: Rear end crashes violently on bumps, broken parking brake, little-to-no rear brake effectiveness.

Thanks in advance.

TheMaxima

Turn on the car while he holds the brakes, the master cylinder doesn't
produce enough psi for the brake system without the engine being on, with
the car on the brake booster will get vacuum from the engine and bump up the brake psi, and for the noise check the spare tire and check if its bolted down along with the jack

gt2carrera4

Engine was running while he was on the brakes.

gt2carrera4

Thanks for replying, the spare is firmly secured, the jack is now even more firmly secured with reusable zip-ties, however the noise sources from the wheel/brake/suspension area on the rear.

TheMaxima

check your exhaust system it might be hitting your rear beam during full suspension travel and check and see the bushings on the arm..just trying to get some ideas going....and yes your calipers are most likely frozen.

gt2carrera4

The exhaust was my first assumption, so a few days ago I inspected it and added some flexible reinforcements to (hopefully) keep the pipe from hitting anything. What should I be looking for specifically on the bushings to determine the condition they're in?

TheMaxima

Look to see if they are torn or deteriorating and cracks mean they will need to be replaced soon

gt2carrera4

OK, so the bushings look fine. Using the 1000+ page Nissan/Infiniti service manual I found on the interwebs, I checked almost all of torque values for both the rear axle/lower rear suspension and they all are within tolerance levels, same thing with the caliper bolts/nuts/pins/etc. However, the caliper pistons on BOTH sides still have a considerable amount of play, therefore I'm pretty sure the broken parking brake is the source of all the noise. I'm about to remove the center console and try to make adjustments if possible.

gt2carrera4

Meh. Cable adjustment only removed some of the noise. Looks like I've got some frozen calipers in the rear. Any suggestions in terms of price/value for acquiring rebuilt OEM calipers online? I'm sure they'll have them at Pep Boys/Autozone/etc. but if they're available online for a better price I'll definitely take advantage of that.

Maxima_Joe

iTrader: (384)

Frozen caliper won't make a crashing noise. If the noise is coming from the brakes a more probable cause would be loose pads. Cheaper pads are not machined the greatest and don't fit the caliper bracket or shims very well. Hit the tire with a rubber mallet or suitable device and see if the crashing noise is there.

gt2carrera4

Thanks! This makes perfect sense since I did use cheap pads in the rear when I replaced them about six months ago. They were crashing before the new pads went in, but after replacing them it only took about two months for the noises to come back.

What pads do you recommend I get?

jholley

iTrader: (13)

You might get calipers cheaper online but you won't get a lifetime warranty. I've gotten refurbished calipers at both pepboys and autozone at fair prices with lifetime warranties. I replaced both rear calipers 2 years ago with refurbished ones from autozone at $55 each. The front calipers only cost $40. This past winter the parking brake's adjusting CAM froze in the right rear caliper. When I informed autozone of this they said bring in both rear calipers for a free trade-in. I also got to trade in their lifetime warrantied ceramic pads.

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

The warranty sounds great but the labor in the long run is not worth it. I have been through so much of their calipers that its not worth it for me anymore. Just put one over a month ago on rear right and the part the e-brake cable hooks onto, its already leaking fluid from that seal.

Learned how to do my own axles and now I think I am about to order an OEM seal kit and do one over myself. If these calipers kept leaking and seizing so often, Nissan would have revised the part.

gt2carrera4

What's the overall forum-consensus on decent 4th-gen pads?

rf97

Get new brake hard for rear. This my solved my rattle

gt2carrera4

The hardware is 6 months old, shims and all. The pads were very cheap but the brake hardware seems pretty standard. I'll pick up a new hardware pack just in case, however I'd still like to know what pads are recommended that aren't complete overkill (i.e. EBC Yellow/Red Stuff/lol-expensive ceramic)

ThaMax

iTrader: (2)

I agree with Maxima_Joe here. I have a very similar issue when I go over bumps, the rear end clanks. I've replaced one caliper and torque member and the other is stock. I have Hawk HPS pads installed, but they don't sit firmly in place once everything is put back together. What I believe is needed is the revised stainless steel pad guides.

If you look here (from a 5.5 gen): http://www.picshed.com/sndmk/rearcaliper.jpg you can see little tabs which push the pads towards the hub. The front brakes have these tabs on the guides where as the rears do not.

I'm pretty sure you can get these from Nissan, but you need to buy the rear caliper rebuild kit. Not sure of the exact price, but you'll get a lot more extra pieces than you need (rubber seals, etc.). Try checking out junkyards to see if you can find the revised guides or a derivative from reman calipers. Thats my plan

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

Very interesting and glad you posted this. The pads from our 4th gens also fit the 5th gens? If that's the case, I will save my money and buy the caliper kit from Nissan if that's the case.

gt2carrera4

So am I looking for the rebuild kit for 5th gens to install on my 4th gen, or is it just a 4th gen rebuilt kit? If it's the former, I would be using 4th gen pads on 5th gen calipers?

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

Well I call and spoke to my parts guy at Nissan today to inquire about it. The pads are indeed the same part number for both 4th and 5th gen. The hardware kit is different so I ordered the hardware kit. I will compare it and post some pics next week because I am sure it will replace our current hardware kit.

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

To follow-up with this, the 5th gen rear brake hardware kit DOES NOT come with the retaining clips or any grease for that matter. The retaining clips by itself is $100 whixh i will still get and put some pics up.

ThaMax

iTrader: (2)

Ooops, sorry didn't get a chance to clarify this one. I thought I came across a 4th gen rebuild, but not sure about the retaining clips. I came across that picture of a 5.5 rear brake simply to use it to explain the tabs.

I remember reading something about sliders with the tabs (maybe for 99's?) and it indicating something about addressing the issue of the pads moving causing noise in the rear.

So for two "revised" rear pad retainers/sliders for a 4th gen, Nissan is charging $100?

gt2carrera4

Any update on the retainers/sliders? Post pics if you've got them of what worked/didn't work.. thanks!

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

Here is a pic of the kit I bought.


The one on the left is the 4th Gen hard ware vs 5.5th gen to the left. They use the same brake pads but the caliper bracket is obviously different here. So the previous information posted is incorrect. You will need to replace the caliper bracket if you want to use these retainers. I will acquire them from somewhere.

gt2carrera4

So a 5.5th gen caliper bracket is just a direct swap?

MAXIMA_STYLE

iTrader: (21)

If its anything.like the fonts you will need to enlarge the mounting holes slightly,but overall yes... im in a similiar process EXCEPT im rplacing hardware,pads,rotors,calipers,and ebrake cables cause.my ebrake dont work at all... but i dont have the "crashing" youre referring to...

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

I cannot say for sure but I will see if I can track down two of them. I got two from an 01 max but they were the same as ours. The 4th, 5th, and 5.5 use the same rear pads but that bracket is what I need to verify the functionality if a direct bolt up.

gt2carrera4

Thanks man, can't wait to hear the results.

gt2carrera4

I'm about to try to MacGyver this noise issue (temporarily) by using "something" as a small spacer between the torque member and the pad retainer to maintain contact between the pads and the retainers. Ideas I've come up with so far:

1) Four thin washers, two under each pad retainer, one on each side under the retainer, held in place with heat-resistant metal flash tape. Worse case scenario: Washers fall out, noise continues.

2) Equally thin heat-resistant strips of rubber, either non-adhesive or self-adhesive, same locations. Worse case scenario: Rubber overheats.

3) I have some thin metal (don't know from what) about 1/4" wide that is continuously wavy. Basically I would cut out a small section that has a C-shaped bend which would act as a makeshift spring applying pressure to the pad retainers. Worse case scenario: Metal falls out or loses it's bounce.

Either way I'm still going to rebuild both rear calipers and use decent pads/hardware when I can find some time. I'll be posting pics of the results, starting with the rubber strips.

Also I got this idea while reading this: http://www.jatan.net/tsbs/041852.pdf

Wish me luck!

gt2carrera4

In lieu of rubber strips I was able to find some self-adhesive tennis grip tape that I cut into two equal sections. They stick very well to extremely clean retainers.

The grip tape turned out to be a little too thick to do both retainers, HOWEVER even with just one modified retainer installed, the pads now essentially have zero play/movement. The difference is like night and day.

I don't have time to do the mod on the other wheel this morning, but after I put the calipers back on the car I'll be sure to post my results.

Here are some pics of the materials I used, the retainers after the grip tape mod, and how the retainers and pads look after installation.

http://www.mediafire.com/i/?2pf023r9x0h6iva
http://www.mediafire.com/i/?ymphxdw9bkxszcz
http://www.mediafire.com/i/?gyodmda5d22t6ce
http://www.mediafire.com/i/?ypmybi2kz42pd08
http://www.mediafire.com/i/?m3bb77ynay3ec7g

Trini Boom

iTrader: (5)

Not bad at all. Haven't been able to locate the brackets yet but your pads must be pretty snug to go in with that mod to the retainers. Apparently, the problem here is lining up the notch with the pin on the brake pad. After doing my 2nd max this past weekend, the piston is not a perfect cross when turning to align. It is slightly twisted to fit into brake pin. Make sure the pin isn't worn down and the noise should go away. Using the dealer pads that came with the kit I bought eliminated the noise in its entirety.

gt2carrera4

Update: Took the day off, did the same mod to the other wheel: NO MORE CRASHING!!

I hereby declare this as an incredibly cheap and easy modification to eliminate (at least temporarily) that embarrassing 4th gen rear end brake pad crashing. Keep in mind I have only driven 15 miles since doing the mod so I can't tell you how effective this mod will be in the long run.

For the test drive, I specifically drove on roads with poor pavement and/or bumps/potholes with the windows down and the radio off so I could hear even the slightest bit of rear-end rattle. There was NONE.

For those of you willing to do this fix, I used an extra-tacky non-perforated Babolat tennis replacement grip (not sure of the specific model), you can find this at any Sports Authority (where I work)/****'s/etc., basically most sporting goods stores for about $6-$8 dollars a roll.

Make sure you get a replacement grip that is self-adhesive and slick, yet tacky on the surface (no holes/perforations). DO NOT use super-thin non-adhesive overgrip, it is about 1/3 the thickness and will be very difficult to align underneath the retainers without some sort of glue/epoxy, plus it doesn't have any sponginess to it so it won't actually apply any sort of upward pressure against the pads.

FINALLY I no longer have to grab the E-brake while driving through my neighborhood to avoid those WTF second-takes as I drive by.

It's time for a beer, or three. PM me if you have any questions and I will most definitely be posting updates regarding the longevity of the fix.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

gt2carrera4

Good looks.

gt2carrera4

Mini-update: Glad to say that after 200 miles over 3 days the "grip-tape fix" is holding up perfectly, no crashing/clanking whatsoever. I know the 5.5th gen part-swap thing is best way to permanently correct this problem, but this has got to be the fastest way to eliminate the noise without buying anything except a $6 roll of tape.

If anybody here does this mod, please let me know about how it worked out for you, thanks for all the help guys!

leo38cheng

gt2carrera4, thanks for the update. I actually have this problem and have a 99 maxima. So to fix this problem, I just need the grip tape?

Or do I have to purchase the 5.5gen clips?

Thanks,
-Leo

gt2carrera4

If you already have the appropriate grease and your pads/hardware are in reasonable shape then yes, all you need is the grip tape. Still haven't heard a sound from the rear brakes since the mod + 350 miles.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

My only concern would be the high temperatures associated with disc brakes melting the tape. Also make sure you place it on the trailing edge. I would replace the torque members and pads for a snugger fit.

gt2carrera4

Most definitely a valid point, especially for those who are relatively very hard on their brakes.

So far I've driven my I30 about the norm for a full tank (about 300-315 miles per tank w/200k miles & no chassis/suspension/brakes performance upgrades) and I haven't encountered a single issue yet in regards to rattle and noise.

When I decided to do this MacGyver-style mod I had no estimate in mind as to how long this would hold up, and I'm very pleased to say in all seriousness that this almost no-cost, incredibly easy retainer modification has stood up to the test.

I'd like to try to keep this thread updated until I've driven the car with the grip-tape mod at least 2,000 miles or until I feel it's necessary to change the rear pads.

MODS: Pending further updates regarding the longevity of this mod, please consider adding this to the 4th-gen How-To's. This fix requires almost no technical effort and the pics I took are more than enough to explain how this is done without having to read each post.

TL;DR: This fix works. Go get some grip tape.

gt2carrera4

Also the tennis replacement grip shouldn't be viewed as a "tape". There is only a very thin layer of adhesive on the sticky side of the grip, probably a fraction of a millimeter thick.

I went into this assuming the sticky side would only serve as an easy yet temporary way to attach the grip tape to the retainer clips for mounting onto the torque members, and so far it's more than served it's adhesive purposes.

Even if the sticky side of the grip tape has lost it's adhesion, there is still plenty of added contact between the retainers and the pads due to the durable sponginess of the grip tape.

I don't play tennis at all, but I'm a 4-handicap golfer who plays at least twice a week. I use the Babolat tape as an overwrap on my 3 wedges and they get TONS of use however I only have to replace the grips twice a year at most or if they start to peel off. That was all I could attest to concerning durability before I decided to test the grip tape on my car...