4th Gen Cost of Ownership
07-14-2012, 08:48 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 90
4th Gen Cost of Ownership
I've always been a firm believer in maintaining vehicles meticulously and keeping them well past 100,000 miles. A lot of people back out on cars because they start to get hit with typical problems - alternators, axles, etc. I bought my 1999 Maxima in early 2008 for $4,200 with 89,000 miles on it. When I bought it, I planned on getting at least 200k out of it. As long as the monthly maintenance cost is less than a car payment, I see no reason to replace the car, especially with cheap insurance for an older vehicle.
I've kept records of all of the maintenance and exact costs for everything since I bought it. I do everything myself, so I wanted to compare my maintenance costs to typical shop costs. I went through my spreadsheet of repairs and created maintenance costs using Auto MD to see how a DIY'er really saves money. Here is the breakdown:
- Repair costs are trending up by year, but overall it has cost me just $93.27 a month to maintain. Even if this goes up to 150 a month, it is still much less than owning a new Maxima or something similar.
- I've put 69,122 miles on the car since I've purchased it. Including gas and insurance, it has cost me just 28 cents per mile! A new Maxima would cost me 70 cents per mile.
- The 5-year cost of ownership is $20,705. The new Maxima is $52,000.
- I saved a total of $6,152.00 by working on the car myself. By doing the work myself, this also gave me the option to purchase OEM parts, increasing reliability.
I've had this debate with many people. Every time they see me fixing my car they tell me to get rid of it. The numbers don't lie here. In my case, it is definitely cheaper to continue maintaining it well and repairing anything that comes up. How do you guys feel about this? Is it worth it to maintain cars until the bodies rust away?
I've kept records of all of the maintenance and exact costs for everything since I bought it. I do everything myself, so I wanted to compare my maintenance costs to typical shop costs. I went through my spreadsheet of repairs and created maintenance costs using Auto MD to see how a DIY'er really saves money. Here is the breakdown:
- Repair costs are trending up by year, but overall it has cost me just $93.27 a month to maintain. Even if this goes up to 150 a month, it is still much less than owning a new Maxima or something similar.
- I've put 69,122 miles on the car since I've purchased it. Including gas and insurance, it has cost me just 28 cents per mile! A new Maxima would cost me 70 cents per mile.
- The 5-year cost of ownership is $20,705. The new Maxima is $52,000.
- I saved a total of $6,152.00 by working on the car myself. By doing the work myself, this also gave me the option to purchase OEM parts, increasing reliability.
I've had this debate with many people. Every time they see me fixing my car they tell me to get rid of it. The numbers don't lie here. In my case, it is definitely cheaper to continue maintaining it well and repairing anything that comes up. How do you guys feel about this? Is it worth it to maintain cars until the bodies rust away?
Last edited by 99sagelimited; 07-14-2012 at 09:04 PM.
07-14-2012, 08:52 PM
#2
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 58
No arguments from me. I've saved money as well repairing my wife's Maxima. Others here will agree with you (after all, this is a Maxima forum for enthusiasts).
May I add... your car is impeccable. I wish ours looked a tenth as good as yours.
May I add... your car is impeccable. I wish ours looked a tenth as good as yours.
07-14-2012, 09:01 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 90
I figured most people here would agree. I've always kept track of my maintenance, but found it fascinating when I learned how much I have actually saved. I guess another plus is the fact that my car has never left me stranded.
07-14-2012, 10:21 PM
#4
well, of course you save money by working on it yourself, who would'nt. im not a mechanic, but my tech allows me to buy my own parts and if i pay cash he does'nt charge me any tax. this is the tenth thread i've seen about this, if you buy a new car you get a warranty and payments to go with it. or keep dumpin money into your car as long as it runs well and you still like it thats your choice.
Last edited by max ride 41; 07-14-2012 at 10:24 PM.
07-15-2012, 01:14 AM
#5
I do all my own repairs. I know for fact I've saved thousands of dollars maintaining both my A32's. Both of them have over 230,000 miles and run amazingly. Once an engine finally does go, I'll just source a low mileage VQ35 and swap it with a 6speed to keep it running even longer.
07-15-2012, 07:17 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,883
I'm the original owner of a 1998 SE. I paid quite a lot more than the OP, if I recall, the car listed for 29,400, and I got $6500 list, and it was brand new.
When it was new I was annoyed with stuff like the car drifting, and the fuel sending unit being replaced 3X (full tank but gauge would show 3/4 full, then full, then 3/4 full).
At around 65k (convenient) I got the EVAP problem, where I proceeded to follow the internet instructions on cleaning, and resetting the ECU. This worked for about a year until the car would not start when hot properly, and the light would not go away. I took it to Nissan and paid about $400 to fix. Has never come back.
I also have the SRS lamp being lit, with which I unplug and replug the side airbag harnesses, and it goes away for months.
Anyway, from 1998 to 2005, the only things that were ever "fixed" on the Maxima were the CV axles, the EVAP, and that's about it. The next major expense was exhaust in 2010, which was not cheap, around $650.
Maybe a year later, the clutch hose was leaking, so that got replaced (wow a whopping $65 OEM) as well as the slave while we were doing it.
Just this month, we did all 4 struts (Quick struts for the fronts, KYB rears), as well as 2 more rear calipers.
I had a problem with that power antenna tube breaking and leaking water into the wheel well.
So, in 216k and since 3/98, all that I've typed is what has been repaired. I hold the Maxima responsible, more like credit it, for allowing me to buy a 2007 335i coupe new. But I won't stop there, I'm driving the Maxima 1/2 of the time to work (coworkers don't understand, they consider the Maxima "junk"). I think offloading miles to the Maxima is going to allow me to buy another new car in the future.
I really have to wonder if Nissan builds them like this anymore. My brother had a 2007 Frontier which needed 2 sets of timing chains within 30k.
When it was new I was annoyed with stuff like the car drifting, and the fuel sending unit being replaced 3X (full tank but gauge would show 3/4 full, then full, then 3/4 full).
At around 65k (convenient) I got the EVAP problem, where I proceeded to follow the internet instructions on cleaning, and resetting the ECU. This worked for about a year until the car would not start when hot properly, and the light would not go away. I took it to Nissan and paid about $400 to fix. Has never come back.
I also have the SRS lamp being lit, with which I unplug and replug the side airbag harnesses, and it goes away for months.
Anyway, from 1998 to 2005, the only things that were ever "fixed" on the Maxima were the CV axles, the EVAP, and that's about it. The next major expense was exhaust in 2010, which was not cheap, around $650.
Maybe a year later, the clutch hose was leaking, so that got replaced (wow a whopping $65 OEM) as well as the slave while we were doing it.
Just this month, we did all 4 struts (Quick struts for the fronts, KYB rears), as well as 2 more rear calipers.
I had a problem with that power antenna tube breaking and leaking water into the wheel well.
So, in 216k and since 3/98, all that I've typed is what has been repaired. I hold the Maxima responsible, more like credit it, for allowing me to buy a 2007 335i coupe new. But I won't stop there, I'm driving the Maxima 1/2 of the time to work (coworkers don't understand, they consider the Maxima "junk"). I think offloading miles to the Maxima is going to allow me to buy another new car in the future.
I really have to wonder if Nissan builds them like this anymore. My brother had a 2007 Frontier which needed 2 sets of timing chains within 30k.
07-15-2012, 09:08 AM
#7
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: S. Philadelphia
Posts: 221
I love to see people who have done such detailed record-keeping and who do their own work. I wish I could do more of my own repairs but I'm pretty confident that even paying a mechanic to do the work, maintaining my '95 Maxima costs my hundreds less per month than a car payment and more expensive insurance would.
Since I've learned a lot about maintaining this car and have a great relationship with a local mechanic who is my neighbor and who lets me bring my own parts, I think I've made up for some of the earlier, ignorant years of my owning this car, where I was getting raped at the dealer.
Yesterday I took a detailed look at my repair records and found that one of the bigger expenses I was previously paying at the dealership was for them to resurface my brake rotors every time they changed the pads. I got brand new rotors for both my fronts and backs in the last year, installed at my neighbor's shop, and the new ones cost 1/2 the cost of resurfacing at the dealership (labor to install a set of pads and resurface rotors was $170 each time). That seems like a total rip-off. I understand why you would want the rotors resurfaced but the cost to buy new ones was about $90 for a pair of Brembo OEMs.
Since my car is running great for the most part, and I've kept the body in near-mint shape, I'm going to run this car a couple more years if I can. I have some annoying interior problems to deal with in time, but ideally I'll attempt to fix them myself as I keep learning more through this site.
Since I've learned a lot about maintaining this car and have a great relationship with a local mechanic who is my neighbor and who lets me bring my own parts, I think I've made up for some of the earlier, ignorant years of my owning this car, where I was getting raped at the dealer.
Yesterday I took a detailed look at my repair records and found that one of the bigger expenses I was previously paying at the dealership was for them to resurface my brake rotors every time they changed the pads. I got brand new rotors for both my fronts and backs in the last year, installed at my neighbor's shop, and the new ones cost 1/2 the cost of resurfacing at the dealership (labor to install a set of pads and resurface rotors was $170 each time). That seems like a total rip-off. I understand why you would want the rotors resurfaced but the cost to buy new ones was about $90 for a pair of Brembo OEMs.
Since my car is running great for the most part, and I've kept the body in near-mint shape, I'm going to run this car a couple more years if I can. I have some annoying interior problems to deal with in time, but ideally I'll attempt to fix them myself as I keep learning more through this site.
07-15-2012, 09:14 AM
#8
Our engines should last 300k+ with proper maintenance.
New chassis/engines aren't meant to last. They are cheaply built. They are built to sell like hotcakes.
New chassis/engines aren't meant to last. They are cheaply built. They are built to sell like hotcakes.
Last edited by Shift_A32B; 07-15-2012 at 09:18 AM.
07-15-2012, 10:48 AM
#9
Well my family gave me the car at around 160 or 170kish, and this year it just rolled past 200k. For the 16years we have had it it ran impeccable until it was given to me ha. I pushed it pretty hard and it started showing it's age, BUT it is because the two or three years prior to it being given to me it wasnt really maintained.
That explains why this year we have poured a TON of money into this past year and this year. My father at first would go to the shops and they would kill us with the bills, however over time I acquired decent mechanical skill and do all the maintenance by myself and save tons of money on work and parts (from dealership).
It's still very stressful when you put money into mods and maintenance and there are still problems that pop up all the time, but I'm still perseverant to get her going stronger than she goes now.
It gets going when you put the foot down, but runs like poop at idle. So what to do:
-MAF cleaning
-EGR clogged (shoudnt be too hard from what I hear
-New exhaust gaskets - reaaallly annoying since ALL have them have been going time after time
Satisfying to tell people it's made it to 200K and that we've had it since 96. Too much sentimental valu to let it go, and we wouldnt get any money selling it. So might a well keep her until she calls it quits
That explains why this year we have poured a TON of money into this past year and this year. My father at first would go to the shops and they would kill us with the bills, however over time I acquired decent mechanical skill and do all the maintenance by myself and save tons of money on work and parts (from dealership).
It's still very stressful when you put money into mods and maintenance and there are still problems that pop up all the time, but I'm still perseverant to get her going stronger than she goes now.
It gets going when you put the foot down, but runs like poop at idle. So what to do:
-MAF cleaning
-EGR clogged (shoudnt be too hard from what I hear
-New exhaust gaskets - reaaallly annoying since ALL have them have been going time after time
Satisfying to tell people it's made it to 200K and that we've had it since 96. Too much sentimental valu to let it go, and we wouldnt get any money selling it. So might a well keep her until she calls it quits
07-15-2012, 11:42 AM
#10
Well my family gave me the car at around 160 or 170kish, and this year it just rolled past 200k. For the 16years we have had it it ran impeccable until it was given to me ha. I pushed it pretty hard and it started showing it's age, BUT it is because the two or three years prior to it being given to me it wasnt really maintained.
That explains why this year we have poured a TON of money into this past year and this year. My father at first would go to the shops and they would kill us with the bills, however over time I acquired decent mechanical skill and do all the maintenance by myself and save tons of money on work and parts (from dealership).
It's still very stressful when you put money into mods and maintenance and there are still problems that pop up all the time, but I'm still perseverant to get her going stronger than she goes now.
It gets going when you put the foot down, but runs like poop at idle. So what to do:
-MAF cleaning
-EGR clogged (shoudnt be too hard from what I hear
-New exhaust gaskets - reaaallly annoying since ALL have them have been going time after time
Satisfying to tell people it's made it to 200K and that we've had it since 96. Too much sentimental valu to let it go, and we wouldnt get any money selling it. So might a well keep her until she calls it quits
That explains why this year we have poured a TON of money into this past year and this year. My father at first would go to the shops and they would kill us with the bills, however over time I acquired decent mechanical skill and do all the maintenance by myself and save tons of money on work and parts (from dealership).
It's still very stressful when you put money into mods and maintenance and there are still problems that pop up all the time, but I'm still perseverant to get her going stronger than she goes now.
It gets going when you put the foot down, but runs like poop at idle. So what to do:
-MAF cleaning
-EGR clogged (shoudnt be too hard from what I hear
-New exhaust gaskets - reaaallly annoying since ALL have them have been going time after time
Satisfying to tell people it's made it to 200K and that we've had it since 96. Too much sentimental valu to let it go, and we wouldnt get any money selling it. So might a well keep her until she calls it quits
also with it being old and me putting money in it i'll never see again i don't mind. actually 80% of the money into this car was for mods so its reliable, even with running 8k miles with no IACV (00vi swap), poor running idle (due to ebay maf) and running rich with de-k injectors.
i bought a good, reliable car that i enjoy driving and its a decent platform for modding. the money in mods i'll never see again but seeing as i'm gonna have this car for at least 6 more years i'll spend $$$ now to make her new and to have it the way i like it... i mean you do spend a lot of time driving so i want my drive to be awesome everytime i fire up the vq
and yes i completely agree with the OP... friends tell me to stop repairing/modding and save my money for a nice car. **** that, they don't get that even if you buy a newer car for say $12k, within 2 years you're still gonna have to put money in to maintain it AND at the same time its still depreciating in value much much more than my $2500 maxima. So far with everything i've done and paid for (parts/random labour/mods) the maxima budget hasn't gone over 6k including the purchase price of the car. i've owned it for 2 years so so far those expenses are a bit steep but when i'm done with it next year, its gonna be like new. an older car is worth a lot more to someone that can do their own repairs on it.
07-15-2012, 04:28 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,883
I wish cars like this were available today--no offense but I don't think the last couple of generations of Maximas have anything to them. And aren't they CVTs only? What about a 8 spd auto or 6 or 7 spd manual?? I think it's just not what people want. Nobody wants a stick anymore....
07-15-2012, 05:19 PM
#12
This makes sense from a strict economic standpoint but you have to keep in mind that some people have no interest in working on their cars or sending them in for repairs.
For example: if you're a highly paid executive then you can argue that the time spent working on your car is a lost opportunity cost of earning a few hundred dollars an hour at your job (or doing something else just as productive). In this case it may be more reasonable to buy a newer car where repair isn't necessary. You'd be paying for the reliability of a new car as opposed to the repairs for an old one. I guess it all comes down to how much your time is worth to you, some people can justify the cost of a new car and some people simply can't.
Not bashing the OP, just making a point, its pretty cool that you kept such good records of every repair to the car!
For example: if you're a highly paid executive then you can argue that the time spent working on your car is a lost opportunity cost of earning a few hundred dollars an hour at your job (or doing something else just as productive). In this case it may be more reasonable to buy a newer car where repair isn't necessary. You'd be paying for the reliability of a new car as opposed to the repairs for an old one. I guess it all comes down to how much your time is worth to you, some people can justify the cost of a new car and some people simply can't.
Not bashing the OP, just making a point, its pretty cool that you kept such good records of every repair to the car!
07-15-2012, 05:41 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,883
This makes sense from a strict economic standpoint but you have to keep in mind that some people have no interest in working on their cars or sending them in for repairs.
For example: if you're a highly paid executive then you can argue that the time spent working on your car is a lost opportunity cost of earning a few hundred dollars an hour at your job (or doing something else just as productive). In this case it may be more reasonable to buy a newer car where repair isn't necessary. You'd be paying for the reliability of a new car as opposed to the repairs for an old one. I guess it all comes down to how much your time is worth to you, some people can justify the cost of a new car and some people simply can't.
Not bashing the OP, just making a point, its pretty cool that you kept such good records of every repair to the car!
For example: if you're a highly paid executive then you can argue that the time spent working on your car is a lost opportunity cost of earning a few hundred dollars an hour at your job (or doing something else just as productive). In this case it may be more reasonable to buy a newer car where repair isn't necessary. You'd be paying for the reliability of a new car as opposed to the repairs for an old one. I guess it all comes down to how much your time is worth to you, some people can justify the cost of a new car and some people simply can't.
Not bashing the OP, just making a point, its pretty cool that you kept such good records of every repair to the car!
But I hear you too, there are those who have no interest in even driving a 199x car, they think it's a piece of junk. Then again, ask them what their lease payments are over 15 years!
07-15-2012, 10:15 PM
#15
I would have to agree just keep the car and maintain it. I had saved up money for my first car what ever it was it was going to be manual! and I was impressed when I saw the maxima. It was not perfect by any means, heck even my mom said it was junk but I liked it. I did not know squat about cars but I kept my car and I acquired some mechanical skills along the way.
It does suck when it breaks down and man does it stress me out. I got really stressed out when my engine lost compression
. I was torn between getting a new car or just swapping a motor in it.
So I chose the cheaper way out and I even challenged myself and decided to swap a 3.5 in it. After I successfully completed the swap my uncle taught me some painting skills (still need to be perfected..) and I painted her. Lets just say she is looking better everyday and running strong
.
Dont get me wrong it is nice to have new car but when I hear the dreaded amount my friends have to pay for their "new" car a month, I am glad I dont have one at this moment anyways with such hard times. Not to mention many of these "new" cars dont even outperform my baby....
I have even taught both my brothers and my mom to drive my car.Long story short she will be around for a while.
+1 your car looks impeccable!!
It does suck when it breaks down and man does it stress me out. I got really stressed out when my engine lost compression
. I was torn between getting a new car or just swapping a motor in it. So I chose the cheaper way out and I even challenged myself and decided to swap a 3.5 in it. After I successfully completed the swap my uncle taught me some painting skills (still need to be perfected..) and I painted her. Lets just say she is looking better everyday and running strong
. Dont get me wrong it is nice to have new car but when I hear the dreaded amount my friends have to pay for their "new" car a month, I am glad I dont have one at this moment anyways with such hard times. Not to mention many of these "new" cars dont even outperform my baby....
I have even taught both my brothers and my mom to drive my car.Long story short she will be around for a while.
+1 your car looks impeccable!!
Last edited by deloa84; 07-15-2012 at 10:17 PM.
07-16-2012, 07:13 PM
#17
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: greater boston
Posts: 21
I work for a dealership and have a machine shop in my back yard, I fix both my cars myself doesnt matter what it is I will fix it you guys are one hundred percent right the best deal on a car is to drive ot till the wheels fall off and then put them back on all these new cars are crap, there not worth the rediculous cash that depreciates up to 3 grand when you first drive it and for what so you nieghbors can be like look at Jimmy with is new Honda he must be rich... Or poor
07-16-2012, 09:01 PM
#18
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 90
This makes sense from a strict economic standpoint but you have to keep in mind that some people have no interest in working on their cars or sending them in for repairs.
For example: if you're a highly paid executive then you can argue that the time spent working on your car is a lost opportunity cost of earning a few hundred dollars an hour at your job (or doing something else just as productive). In this case it may be more reasonable to buy a newer car where repair isn't necessary. You'd be paying for the reliability of a new car as opposed to the repairs for an old one. I guess it all comes down to how much your time is worth to you, some people can justify the cost of a new car and some people simply can't.
Not bashing the OP, just making a point, its pretty cool that you kept such good records of every repair to the car!
For example: if you're a highly paid executive then you can argue that the time spent working on your car is a lost opportunity cost of earning a few hundred dollars an hour at your job (or doing something else just as productive). In this case it may be more reasonable to buy a newer car where repair isn't necessary. You'd be paying for the reliability of a new car as opposed to the repairs for an old one. I guess it all comes down to how much your time is worth to you, some people can justify the cost of a new car and some people simply can't.
Not bashing the OP, just making a point, its pretty cool that you kept such good records of every repair to the car!
07-16-2012, 09:05 PM
#19
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 90
I used a website called AutoMD.com. It provides repair quotes for dealers and mechanics in your area. It seems pretty accurate, because most of the quotes I have received for work are close to the estimates from AutoMD.
07-17-2012, 12:12 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbia SC
Posts: 2,292
I have to agree with you all on keeping and maintaining an older car. I have learned alot about working on my own car and saved lots of money in the process. This 1995 maxima is my 3rd maxima. I drove my 3rd gen to 275k flawlessly with only a transmission replacement as a major repair. I love to diagnose and work on my own car. Believe it or not alot of people keep their maximas around here because they are so reliable and there are some people who wont even touch it because its a nissan. Beats owning a newer car tho anyday. Insurance is cheap and parts are reasonable.
07-17-2012, 04:18 AM
#21
nice... I do keep a full service history of mine as well and I am continuing the spreadsheet that came with it since the first owner had his oil change... one questions for you? Based on your estimated cost of ownership per month you said it varies between $100 and $150... Does that include gas and insurance or just parts?
07-17-2012, 06:27 AM
#22
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 90
nice... I do keep a full service history of mine as well and I am continuing the spreadsheet that came with it since the first owner had his oil change... one questions for you? Based on your estimated cost of ownership per month you said it varies between $100 and $150... Does that include gas and insurance or just parts?
07-17-2012, 10:12 AM
#23
Maintenance includes all repairs, parts, etc. There were a few times mixed in there where I had a mechanic do some things, and that is included too. So it has cost me $93.27 per month to maintain. Total cost of ownership per month, which includes repairs, gas, and insurance is $344.00.
07-18-2012, 06:14 AM
#24
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 90
It was much less until I recently had a clutch installed ($900) and put new axles in from Raxles ($400). Also did a radiator ($100) and knock sensor ($100) all in the last two months. It also costs $20-30 a month for registration, state inspection, and oil changes, so I don't think ~100 is too bad.
07-18-2012, 07:32 AM
#26
Sure beats the hell out of 300+ car payments a month for a couple of years....
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