6cyl-97maxima

Update: pulled the #5 coil today because it started missing again, well sure enough there i water in there again I'm pretty sure it's not coolant because its not green and it doesn't taste sweet just plain and appears to be transparent. The only place it could be coming from, IMHO, is the intake/UIM. Here's my theory, The pre cat For the rear bank Is partially clogged And since it's been really cold The exhaust gases have a lot of moisture in it, I believe the back pressure is forcing the exhaust gas And the moisture Thats mixed in with it, up in to the UIM And as the exhaust gases back log into the UIM. The condensates And some of that moisture gets Settled into The spark plug Valleys.
Idk maybe that's not even possible. Perhaps I do have a blown head gasket but it doesn't seem like coolant. And I don't have any of the other symptoms of a BHG.
Any ideas to figure out where this water is coming from?
any sf

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

The only fluids that seem probable is water left over from when you washed the engine, condensation from just winter weather, or windshield washer fluid. The knock sensor functions above 3k rpm. 2 degrees of advance is noticeable, so 2 degrees less would be as well, a bad ks should be changed period. There are graphs if you search that show a dead ks does about -10 degrees of damage. As far as the possible clogged cat, remove it and put on another one (walker brands are a decent price) or hollow out your current one. Learn how to do all work on your car, it will save you a ton of money, $1200 for repairs not relating to the engine imo are ridiculous, our cars aren't worth that much.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Maybe you just need to take the car for a long drive on the highway to get rid of all the excess moisture from the engine cleaning.
You should also be wary of engine cleaning. I stay away from it and rather uses rags to clean engine parts instead of a whole shower.

6cyl-97maxima

I wish it was summer it would dry out in no time, it would dry a lot faster. On the 40 min drive back from my friends place, it was snowing and for ****s and giggles I stoped to look inside the air box. there was a small layer of snow in the base. And yes I did shower her engine, paying special attention to the UIM because I wanted to get it cleaner, which I'll never do again. I used a shop vacuum and sucked all the water out of the plug valleys, I'm going to do this every so often until the water is gone for good.

6cyl-97maxima

After testing the KS and knowing it is truly dead I will now be replaceing it. as far as paying the Mechanic $1200 to do the brakes, believe me, I was pissed. I only took it to him because it was to cold and snowy out for me to do in my driveway. Plus I needed an inspection and he was the only one willing to pass it without wanting to do more than just the brakes. Other places wanted rust work done, which h would of ment bringing her to a body shop because its winter and body working doesn't seem to go to well in the cold on a snowy driveway. Other placez wanted me to have the filler neck fixed to. I'm just waiting for summer to come so "I" can get all of this work done.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

Your theory on the water doesn't make sense.
But you mention a partially clogged pre cat? There's your power loss.
Put new coils on the car.

6cyl-97maxima

What part doesn't of my theroy did make sense? I figured that back pressure from a partily clogged pre-cat would force the exhaust gasses back into the intake and the moisture from condensation builds up in the UIM, then somehow the moisture gets in the spark plug valleys. But it was just a guess.
I decided to check cylinder #5 for moisture again and it was dry so I took the new/used coil out and put my old one back in and wow what a difference. The car has power throughout the entire rpm range now and doesn't miss. I suspect that the JY coil became contaminated with moisture when I put it in my car without knowing there was water in there. So I plan on pulling all the coils on the rear bank and drying/cleaning the areas where the spring connect. You say to just replace all my coils. Why? Do you think they are all bad? I really can't afford to replace coils that don't need to be. My budget is apx. $690/M.
PS: I only suspect.a partially clogged pre-cat but have yet to verify it. Can I make a backpressure tester by buying a cheap vacuum gauge that goes a little into the positive pressure, then hook the hoes for my compression tester onto the cheap vacuum gauge so it can be screw into the o2 bungs. Would this work? My multimeter also has a temperature measurement setting, bit I got to get the proper adapter first. But I can do before and after temperature test with that setup. This will help me to verify a clogged cat.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

No don't replace all of them, but for the one that you know is bad, get a new OEM coil.

Used is a crap shot at best.

6cyl-97maxima

I agree 100 percent used as a crap shoot. What's the cost for new OEM coil again? About $120/each.

PS: Please reread my last post as you replied while I was doing some editing.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

Suspect clogged cat.

Honestly, take the pipe down and look at them. Their honeycomb cats, really easy to see if there failing, plugged, etc.

Or you can pull both front O2's and put a pressure gauge into the O2 port. You can compare the 2 sides, or just look for excess pressure. There really shouldn't be any.

My vote goes to dropping the pipe - 6 Nuts.

klobbersaurus

water in the rear banks? how often are you using your washer fluid, it could pin hole leak in your washer hoses and when your using your spray, water could be getting onto your rear bank coil

check your fuel trims as well, if your fuel trims are way off, it could be a cause of lack of power or bad gas mileage

save your self some time and headaches by using a vacuum gauge to check for a clogged cat

http://www.nichols.nu/tip569.htm

6cyl-97maxima

My MAF readings are spot on. The only way I can check my fuel trims is with a multimeter, as the app I'm using doesn't have that feature
I believe my fuel trims are fine though as none of my plugs indicated a rich or lean condition and they showed a nice even burn a cross all cylinders.
Car runs much better even when warm now, still going to check my cats anyway. I'm so close to getting all of my power back.

6cyl-97maxima

Okay well new problem. I got the car running pretty good but it still seen have a mild miss so I figured that some of the other coil packs needs a good cleaning, to get the moisture and the results of the moisture out of them.
In the process of doing this one in the boots came off the stem and remained in the spark plug Valley. I don't have a clue how to get it out of there. Sort of putting some glue on the base of the stem, then letting it dry hoping that the boot will stick to the stem more so than the plug. And then would hopefully come out when I pull on the stem.
What do you guys think? Is that my best bet or should I try something else? What kind of glue should I use that won't harm the rubber of the boot? Maybe just some high temp silicone?
Argh. One thing after another! And just when I finally started getting it running better.
Thanks again guys

6cyl-97maxima

OK well I got the boot out. A little bit of crazy glue on the stem did the trick. But there's still something wrong. And I think it is still a bad coil pack. The junkyard coil works fine when the coil is cold, but once a coil warms up it goes out of spec. I'm verified this by testing it cold and it was within spec but barely, 1.6 ohms, and when it was hot it tested 1.8 ohms. I also put the cold junkyard coil in a hot engine and it ran fine for a few minutes. My old coil just doesn't want to work at any temperature. I guess I could always return the junkyard coil and make sure I bring my multimeter with me next time and check to see if it s at at least 1.2- 1.3 ohms while cold. Because it would appear that if it test hi in the spec range while cold then it will surely end up being out of spec once warm. I could be wrong but my experience in the past few days of playing around these coils has taught me that

6cyl-97maxima

OK so after cleaning all the rear banks coils and using the junk yard coil in place of my number 5 coil the car seems to be running pretty good. But at times the transmission acts like it has no clue what to do, for example, leaving my mother's house today the car took off like a bat out of hell and pulled hard through each gear and on into overdrive. Then I got to the highway and once the lights changed I punched it, well first it acted like it started off in second gear, so I let off the gas and slowly got up to speed. Then I tried punching the throttle again and it stayed in 5th. Even with the foot to the floor it Felt like it was just staying in 5th gear instead of downshifting to 4th or 3rd. Once I came to a stop at the lights and got going again everything worked fine. Perhaps its time to drop that rusty trans pan and replace it with a new one with a new screen. If that's not the problem then could it be sensor related? Or is it time to start getting ready for a 5 speed swap? Water has not come back BTW. I'm very happy that I have gotten most of my performance back. Next thing is going to be the KS, in the meantime I'm going to start looking over my tranmission. Fluid looks good, doesn't smell burnt, and still feels like it has retained it lubrication properties. So idk.

6cyl-97maxima

Should I return that junk yard coil and get a better one? Even though it works way better than my old one? The JY one tested at 1.6 ohms cold and 1.8 ohms when warm. My old one tested 1.2 cold and apx. 1.4 warm. But even though it more in spec. than the JY coil the old one just doesn't work good at all. I have also noticed that I don't get the shock treatment when I get out of the car now. The old one must have been spark leaking like crazy to be getting shocked so bad before.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

You need to understand that your car is old. There will be lots of things on it that just wont work perfectly. Tired O2s, tranny shifting slowly etc.

These symptoms you describe now sound just like what happened with my friends 99 I30. Long story short, a tranny fluid change restored some life to the car, but also replacing the primary O2 really brought it back to life.

For the tranny fluid, drop the old fluid by unscrewing the big bolt in the tranny's oil pan, then replace the same amount of new stuff, Nissan Dmatic or Dexron III, thru the tranny dipstick. DO NOT FLUSH. That job will bring life back to your tranny. Because you have tired O2s, the engine is not as lively or peppy as it should be. Because the car is an automatic, the computer program that the tranny is using assumes a perfectly functioning motor. In other words, when you hit the pedal, the engine generates a certain amount of torque at certain rpms, and that amount makes the tranny respond and downshift. The tired O2s make the engine "hungover" so you have to push the pedal harder to produce that same torque to make the tranny respond.

Used OEM coils are financially a wise choice, but the fact is, they are used. Becuase of that, I would buy a bunch of used coils, not just one from the junkyard. Buy all six. You should be able to get them all for less than the price of 1 brand new one. The 3 front coils and the 3 back coils are interchangeable. Coils 1,3, and 5 are the same part. So are coils 2,4,and 6.

6cyl-97maxima

Thanks. So you really think my o2's are tired out, eh? Even though my MAF is reading fine, the g/s readings are spot on. The car is running pretty good now. I'm sure the transmission fluid was changed when the axles were changed. But I do have a seep in my transmission pan, so I topped it up a little, (apx. 1/2 QUART) and that seemed to make the shifting much better. Those upstream o2's are expensive. So I'd feel more comfortable checking the fuel trims on both o2's prior to replacing. The owner before me had exhaust work done...for all I know they have already been replaced. But ill replace them anyway when I can afford it, I guess.
Thanks.
I really wish I could go out and buy brand new O2's right now, weather the ones in my car good or not. But I just don't have that kind of money right now. I'm sure there must be a way to test them to see if they are electronically tired, such as watching the activity on the fly or something like that.

6cyl-97maxima

Here is my idea for testing the o2's on the fly. Well actually it would be my second idea. The first one was to use My cheap E-bay obdII reader and an app that could monitor fuel trims on each o2. But it bit the dust after 2 months of working fine. So I can't go with that idea, it probably would of been too slow to respond anyway. So the current idea would be to use my multimeter. Back in the day when I had my 90 mx-6 gt, I had an a/f gauge hooked up and it was tapped into the main upstream o2. The Gage would bounce back and forth really fast from lean to rich. When light cruising or at idle and deacceleratin. The a/f gauge is nothing more than a volt meter that uses lights instead of numbers. So I see no reason why I couldn't backprobe the o2 leads with my multimeter then get my buddy to drive while I watch how fast the voltage rises and lowers. And just for sh** s and giggles see what steady voltage reading I get a WOT, then watch to see how fast it goes back to bouncing back and forth once the gas is released. IMHO this could give me an idea as to if their slow to respond or not. I figured I do something.while I wait for money to come in. And yes I am awear how sensitive o2 wires are and how they have to stay well insulated and away from other electricals that could interfere with their operation.
Do you guys think a test like this could truly tell me anything, or is it a waste of time?

6cyl-97maxima

Well the little bit of performance I managed to get back is now gone again. So after listening to everyone's advice, I have concluded that I need to replace my o2's, drop the exhaust and visually check the pre-cats, and either find a whole set of junkyard coils and swap them around until I pinpoint at tired/bad coil(s), or just buy new ones and replace the filler neck which will hopefully get rid of the evap code. On a side note: I always get shocked badly when I get out of the car, but only if I turn the key on or if I have been driving. If I just go sit in the car and not turn it on I won't get shocked. For the couple of weeks it was running better I wasn't getting shocked, but now I am again and the car is back to running crappy again. May be a coincidence but its a pretty bad shock and seems to be much more than just static electricity. My obd2 reader, that I usually just left plugged in, burned out on me, so no more easy code reading for now. Man I swear everything I get goes to ****.

6cyl-97maxima

Any ideas about the getting shocked part? Could this buildup of electricity cause incorrect readings on some sensors or even short things out?

klobbersaurus

how are you checking your fuel trims with a multimeter? usually fuel trims are a %


http://www.obd-codes.com/p0173

the symptoms of a fuel trim issue are some of the issues your experiencing

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

That is a problem. The entire metal body of the car and motor are negative ground. Add a ground kit to your car. You can make your own by getting some battery cables and copying the install procedure from the ones you would buy.

Make sure battery is disconnected when doing the work.

asand1

iTrader: (1)

Just static electricity. Gets worse when the weather gets cold and dry.

6cyl-97maxima

This is what I've been reading, but it only happens if the key has been turned on or if I went for a drive. If I just sit in it for a bit then get out I don't get the bad zap.

6cyl-97maxima

I ment by checking the voltage readings from the o2's then I figured thoes readings might be able to caculate fuel trims with some math.
Although I don't have any codes related to fuel trim issues. No rich or lean codes on either bank. Plugs have a nice even burn, and are the proper color for a nice burn.
When I have some extra money then just for ****s and giggles ill have my mechanic check the fuel trims.

6cyl-97maxima

Thanks, I've been thinking about adding a ground from the transmission to engine, then an extra engine to body ground. As of right now I'm not sure if my main ground is even setup correct. The ground wire comes off the battery, then leads to a clamp that bites into the cable which is attached to the body,(the clamp is quite rusty), then the same wire bolts onto one of the starter bolts to ground to the engine. Is this the correct routing for the main ground coming off the battery?

klobbersaurus

the o2 sensor lets the computer know how much fuel to add, if its running lean then the o2 sees that, it will add more fuel then check and if it still sees lean, then it will add more till it doesnt see a lean condition anymore, by that time, your fuel trim could be at +20%

6cyl-97maxima

I understand what an upstream o2 sensor does and how it works with the ECU to adjust.a/f ratios as needed. Things like vacuum leaks and a bad o2 would cause what your describing. But I'm pretty good at reading plugs and I can assure you I'm not running rich or lean in any cylinder/bank. All plugs have a peferect and same normal burn tan colour. If any cylinder or bank was running pig rich would not only smell in the oil but the plugs on that.bank would be black, if really lean they would be withish and possibly melted. G/s readings are spot on.
Someday ill check the trims, but for now I'm thinking coils, rotted filler neck causing evap code, and a bad downstream o2 with a leak in the Flex. I feel that once I fix those things my car will be running fine. If not then I'll replace the upstream o2's.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

That sounds about right. You can clean up your existing ground connections by simply unscrewing and screwing things back in again. For extra cleaning you can spray WD40 on it, use a metal toothbrush etc.

Do it for every connection you see terminating to the body or engine.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

The ECU doesn't care what the o2's say when your foot is on the floor so if you mostly feel the performance is down under hard acceleration, look elsewhere. Did you change the KS yet?

6cyl-97maxima

No I didn't change the KS yet, mainly because of conflicting info. Some say that the KS only make the car run like its on 87 octane and only takes like 10% of timming advance off, which would only be noticeable on a dyno or 1/4 mile runs. Others say its the last thing I should address, because other problems, like the downstream o2 and the evap code could be triggering the knock sensor code. Then others say it makes a huge difference and to change it now. Idk what to do when it comes to the KS. I'm trying to listen to everybody's advice but there is some conflict that makes it a bit harder to figure out how to go about things. At this point I suspect coils or partially plugged pre-cat as my main performance issues, but is nothing more than a educated guess.

6cyl-97maxima

it definitely something I can try for free so why not, eh? Thanks for the tips.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Knock Sensor is your problem.......

6cyl-97maxima

Well it seems likely that it may play a big role in my problems. But then others are convinced that a leak in the flex section, the dead downstream o2, and/or the leaky filler neck which is causing an evap code, Could be triggering the KS code. Therefor the KS should be last on my list. Hence the reason im conflicted. Ill have to test the KS again to verify I did the original test correctly, If I did do the original test correct, than the KS is dead for sure.

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Yes a leak in the exhaust system can cause a disturbance in your exhaust velocity resulting in low torque/power most definitely!

6cyl-97maxima

Well maybe that's why the power loss was a gradual decline the leak is quite bad now, I can see exhaust smoke trailing out the sides and under the Hood during the morning warm-up. I have some high temp. exhaust bandage that I can wrap the flex section with for now, then in the coming weeks buy a universal flex section and clamp it on. Ride like that for a while, then buy a warpspeed y-pipe when I can finally afford it.
I think I will also just repair the filler neck for now, using a pice of rubber hose. I ask about it some days ago, and was told the hose that I would need is the same size as the heater core hose. So what, like 3/4"? Then I will replace the downstream o2 and KS if the codes persists.

6cyl-97maxima

My MAX is running good again. I can feel that power again. Power seems to come back after the seafoam treatment. I did the brake booster method and put some in the gas.
My guess is I had an injector becomming clogged or a valve that wasn't seating correctly. I have a bad habit of running too low on gas too often. The filler neck is rotting so I'm sure that rust was geting washed into the tank as I would fill up. After a few times running out of gas, my guess is that the pump started sending rusty gas up to the motor.
I guess I should.do a few more treatments and make sure I don't run it low anymore. MAX POWER!

Quickywd01

iTrader: (16)

http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...tall-pics.html

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Its good to hear there's life returning to your car. I tend to be a bit wary of aggressive internal engine cleaners. They may do alot of cleaning now, but in the long term they may do more harm than good. For example seafoam is an alcohol based cleanser. internal parts of your car, like the intake manifold, are coated with a plastic film to reduce the buildup of carbon inside the car. Seafoam may have cleaned everything AND washed that film away. So your car which is clean now, may build up carbon more quickly in the internal parts now.

Here's one raging discussion about it;

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...pics/1870422/1

Arguments on both sides with no clear winner. Who knows

I prefer to err on the side of caution. I intend to be one of those guys with 400K or more miles on my original motor. Instead of seafoam, I would look into TCW3. It does all that seafoam does but it's a harmless oil, and you put in so little;

http://forums.maxima.org/fluids-lubr...itive-new.html

As for the dirty debris in your fuel, keep in mind that the fule filter has a sock on it. After that first filter, the fuel passes thru the fuel filter in the engine bay, then it finally reaches the injectors. I don't think that much dirt is getting through, but hey