JvG

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The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Totally uncalled for. Consider this your first and last warning bbsitum.

maxima297

Update: Misfire resolved. O2 sensor related problems resolved. All that remains is a small evap leak causing rpm fluctuation, and exhaust leak at the rear manifold.

maxima297

I can't figure out where this leak is coming from. All hoses are where they belong and are clamped down snugly. This high idle is driving me nuts. Any ideas?

CS_AR

How is your EGR? I think you cleaned it. Right?

A few years ago, I had what seemed like a small vacuum leak that occurred after the 99 model SE (a.k.a Max III) had been running and warmed up. RPMs would bounce when I would drive down the street in 2nd gear. It seemed like an intermittent vacuum leak. Also, RPMs would drop very fast when I would change gears or pull up to a stop sign. It wouldn't die when I would pull up to a stop sign, but the RPM drop rate was much faster than normal. Finally one morning, I received an EGR code. Bingo. As soon as I replaced the EGR, it really stabilized the car and it has been running perfect ever since.

Here's the catch, that was on a 99 model with the electric EGR. I think the issue was the EGR was not closing, thus causing a vacuum leak.

I had a vacuum operated EGR fail on my 95 model (a.k.a Max I) some years ago. I received a code for that failed part fairly quickly as I recall. I remember my son talking about how it smoothed out a low RPM bounce when he was driving in town. Though it has been over six years ago and I can't remember the exact symptoms. That was before I started posting maintenance history on here.

Note: Both Max I and Max III are 5-speeds so the low end bounce in 1st or 2nd gear seems to be more pronounced than what I think I would experience on an automatic.

Also, I wouldn't replace an EGR without a code or some solid evidence that points to it failing. That is unless you are doing an all out mid-life tech refresh on parts that you know won't make it for another 100,000+ miles.

maxima297

Yes, I cleaned the egr. As well as the tb and iacv. The iacv was the worst.

Neither iacv or tb has ever had a gasket since I've owned the car (since 82k). I've disassembled and reassembled both multiple times without any issues.

I expect high rpms at startup. As it warms up, rpms drop from 1500 to 1150, then do a little dance between 1150 and 1200 before settling at 1250. When I'm driving (I have a MT, btw), rpms are OK til I downshift or go into neutral. If I downshift, rpms drop to 1500 then bounce up to almost 2k, and back and forth a few times before settling at 1250. If I just put it in neutral, rpms only bounce once before settling. Even if I'm coasting, rpms never go lower than 1250. It's really frustrating, considering I'm used to having a much lower idle (650 while stopped). I don't know what to do.

Fakie J Farkerton

iTrader: (51)

Gaskets are a good thing

maxima297

Very valid point. But, they weren't there prior to this job and I never had an issue before? That's why I'm confused.

Fakie J Farkerton

iTrader: (51)

You probably just didn't notice the IACV one because it stuck in place or fell without you noticing
Use gaskets

maxima297

Fakie, there wasn't one. I would have noticed that, especially since I knew there was supposed to be one.

At any rate, we don't sell either tb or IACV gasket at work, or at any local parts store.

CS_AR

I'm sure you have tried to adjust the IACV valve in the process.

Was the EGR tube completely clogged before cleaning?

In thinking back about the past three EGR cleaning projects over the last 6 years, all but one had an EGR tube that was completely clogged when I cleaned the EGR system.

Coincidentally, for the two that were completely clogged, I later had to replace the EGR valve not too long after the cleaning. I'm starting to think the there is a connection between having a completely clogged EGR tube, a good cleaning, and the EGR valve issues that surfaced afterward. IIRC, the EGV valve that survived only had a partially clogged EGR tube that was easily cleaned.

It would be good if we could verify this clogged EGR tube and later EGV valve failure theory with some other members that had to replace their EGR valve a few weeks or months after a completely clogged EGR tube and related components were cleaned.

Note that I've been able to clean the IACVs and verify the stepper motor was working afterward without issue.

maxima297

I actually didn't touch that valve until last night, just to see if I could bring the idle down. I only got it down maybe 250rpms.

I'm really starting to think this car was tampered with by a very inexperienced and not mechanically inclined moron prior to me getting it.

Yes, the egr has been cleaned out. I did that late last year, with the instructions given to me by JvG. That was back when I was fighting with a p1446 that wouldn't go away. It started at the charcoal canister and worked it's way up to the solenoid and saucer under the hood. SO annoying. Since then, I've replaced the entire system and put new hoses and clamps in.

I do have concerns about the pcv hose between the valve covers that I replaced. I don't know if I used the correct hose, if I should have clamped it or not. The old one was brittle and hard, and had no clamps.

I'm hoping to have this cleared up soon. I did find the tb and iacv gaskets online, but they won't be here til Thursday. I'm really starting to think that the new uim gasket is my culprit.......

reallywildstuff

This is almost always the case. If the car had enjoyed a professional mechanic before you owned it, you either wouldn't own it or you wouldn't be working on it.

There is a disconnect here, however - posters requesting help rarely lead with "My customer's car..." i.e. most are not professional mechanics either. At least I am not.

Re: fluctuating idle - perhaps because you have already ordered the gaskets, you may already realize that the symptoms described denote "vacuum leak" (not "EVAP leak" as you posted) commiserate with "not putting the plumbing atop the UIM back together right" or, as you said, faulty UIM seal.

However - you wrote "new UIM gasket"...I re-read your post twice and I don't see where you previously mentioned pulling the entire upper manifold off. Was this recently completed?

Recommend confirm a tight vacuum system with either an unlit butane torch or some choke cleaner before struggling too much further with it.

maxima297

There was one lonely code: p1441 - small evap leak. I erased it the other night after taking everything apart to check to incorrectly placed hoses or loose clamps. The code has not returned.


Prior to this no start situation, I had planned to remove the uim to complete the injector and valve cover gasket job. Since I was in there anyways, I replaced the cracked and brittle uim gasket. So, yes, I did remove the entire uim. I also replaced the pcv hose and the little sideways U-shaped hose connecting the uim to the egr.


Prior to this entire situation, I have taken the tb and iacv off for periodic cleaning. I've never had a high idle issue, and there hasn't been a gasket on either unit the entire time I have owned the car.


Spraying choke cleaner is next on the list. For now, I am happy that I got the rpms down to just a hair over 1000 at idle.

maxima297

Update: took some throttle body cleaner and sprayed around. There is no idle change whatsoever when spraying the tb and iacv areas. However.....the uim and the front three injector seats all resulted in higher idle when sprayed.

Anyone know the size or part number of those injector orings? I'm talking about the thick ones that go around the bottom of the injectors. And how do I resolve the uim gasket leak, when I know the bolts were tightened in order and to specs?

CS_AR

Here's a link to the injector seats that I use below. I take it a new UIM gasket was installed?

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/f...ZL0aAg6l8P8HAQ

maxima297

I found a set of 6 injector gaskets at work, just need to wait for them to arrive in Syracuse from New Jersey but thank you!

Yes, a new uim gasket was installed. The old one was worthless, brittle and cracked. The thickness of it worries me, especially knowing that a vacuum leak exists there now. I'd like a normal idle someday soon lol

reallywildstuff

what brand was that UIM gasket?

certainly, if you do take the UIM off again, you should absolutely service or replace the three left-hand injectors

maxima297

Felpro

Those would be the right hand/bank injectors. They have already been serviced.