BronxSleeperMax187

I see your gas is low, did you fill up somewhere you usually don't ? I know this might sound crazy but water in the gas tank can cause problems like the one you had. They sell water remover at autozone for gas tanks. I filled up once a long time ago at a station and had symptoms like the one you described....has it rained a lot where you live before your last gas fill-up? Go get some fresh gas and the water remover its like 7 bucks. Good luck let us know when you figure it out . Also when you start it hit the gas at the same time and see if it starts, if that don't work see if your battery is low.

Turbobink

iTrader: (2)

Looking for other causes is never a bad idea but in this case, based on the circumstances that led to the no start, there's really no Q (in my mind anyway) that your issue is specifically related to the MAF removal and re-installation and/or your attempts to start the car during or after the installation.

First thing I'd do, as suggested, is look into threads related to immobilization related to the NATS. If that doesn't pan out do some diagnostics and fundamental trouble shooting.

Do you have a scan tool? If so, run for codes with the KOEO.

Codes or no codes, disconnect the [-] battery terminal cable and bleed to e-system.

With the battery disconnected, unplug and replug the new MAF.

If that doesn't work, do it all again except install the old MAF.

See what happens.

Shrout1

Just tested the new MAF last night; that's when the car started seriously misbehaving! Reinstalled the old one and it still doesn't start :P

Also, it was idling fine three days ago, so would the injectors have gone bad in that time?

Thanks for the suggestion! I always fill up at the Wawa up the road from me - I gassed it up in January or February and haven't driven very much. It was idling fine on the fuel Monday, even drove it around the neighborhood. If all else fails I will definitely try to remove water from the fuel.

Security light isn't red, but I will try it with my spare key. It certainly does seem to fit the bill there...

Sadly I don't have any toys that cool. I just bought a $20 OBDII scanner for use with the Torque app and I was going to plug that in and give it a try.

Forgive my relative noobness but I am unfamiliar with the meaning of "e-system"

The videos I posted are both the new and old MAF. I uninstalled the old MAF and installed the new one. No joy. I reinstalled the old one, no joy. Each time I did this I disconnected the negative terminal (black) and then undid all the connectors. Once everything was back in place I reconnected the terminal.


Fuel + Air + Spark.

Could be NATS (Nissan Anti-Theft System) but there's no red light on the security panel. LED still blinks intermittently like normal.

Engine turns over / cranks when starting. No codes from coils lately. Seems like one or two failed coils would cause a rough idle but shouldn't keep the car from starting...

Fuel pump has only 5k miles (it was a cheap chinese one that Firestone put in, sadly), fuel filter was replaced on Sunday.

MAF could definitely be the issue, but would it keep the car from starting? Can I try to start the car with the MAF harness connector disconnected?

Would vacuum leaks cause issues with the airflow to the engine? Could my severely cranked blow-by hose be causing this?

Shrout1

Not the key. Tried both, no go. Security light looks normal.

Shrout1

Not that I'm giving up but can a manual be flat towed? Leaving on business for 6 weeks in the middle of April. If I can't get it by then I think I know the shop I want to take it to.

KP11520

I found CS_AR's post about this. If the Cardone MAF is bad and your door was open and you tried three times to start it, you most likely are locked out by the NATS.

So now the old MAF won't work either.

https://maxima.org/forums/4th-genera...ml#post8984199

If this is the case, you have two options.....

Towed/flatbeded to dealer and get bent over.

Find a locksmith that also specializes in auto keys and can reprogram your system. They usually make house calls and are way more reasonable than the dealer, if you find the right ones.

This might help as well: http://forums.nicoclub.com/99-infini...m-t543802.html

Good luck! And don't you have enough headaches with IT? You're a glutton for punishment wanting to add old Maximas now. LOL

I'll never buy another Nissan. I had an 88 Maxima and this 99 SE-L and both have tortured me and bent me over with the cost of keeping them going "Because I've already invested so much" rational. Delusional. Never again! The second hundred K miles is beyond painful. Now I'm on the third hundred K and I know it's going to be a joy!

Next car.... an early 70's Dodge Dart. With a carburetor and points and distributor.

Shrout1

Door was closed each time! Haven't tried to start it with the door open. Shoot I buckled up cuz I figured I'd be driving it Also, I think I've tried to start it twice between undoing battery leads and swapping MAFs / cleaning it etc.

Would the security light be solid red?

Dealer is an hour away :P

I'll have to look around! We're kind of in the boonies (kind of...) so I'll have to see if there's anyone.

Sheeeeit. I hear you.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

Try starting the car with the MAF disconnected and report back. Just don't give it gas or will stall out.

Shrout1

Will do. Can't get to it til tomorrow.

I think that the ECU may have Alzheimer's. I say this because I saw these same symptoms last fall when I took the car out of town. It's the reason I replaced the fuel pump.

I had to get the car towed to Nissan and have my key programmed back into the ECU.

I don't think that the car is immobilized *yet* but I think that something caused the ECU to forget about my keys. I'd blame it on the key failing, but Nissan was able to reprogram the same exact keys back into the car and now *neither* key works.

When it failed last fall there was no warning; one moment the car was working - two minutes later the car wasn't working. Checked out of the hotel and blam, no start.

I think I have a bad MAF and a failing ECU. The ECU concerns me more because that sounds expensive and I'd have to get everything programmed again.

Sorry for my flood of text, just trying to get this figured.

DBear

The engine is catching but dying, right? I'd suspect a big vacuum leak. Are you sure you didn't knock loose a vacuum hose somewhere? Have you replaced the blow by hose (or at least taped it to try to stop any leaks)?

vqmaxman

I don't think it would be the key because, I have a new key that's not programmed and the car will start and run than cutoff immediately with the nats light. I don't think it's the key.

Shrout1

The engine catches a little bit, yes. Haven't replaced the hose yet - new hose is on the way. I could stick some duct tape on it tomorrow night.

Ok that's good to know. I'll hunt down the vacuum leak and report back.

PH98I30

You can find vacuum leaks by blowing smoke(either from a cigar or vape cigarette) into the throttle body from one of the hoses. When smoke appears in the engine bay, it will come from where the leak is. Its a cheap diagnostic tool.

Shrout1

Thanks! I might need a smoke break after all this... Scotty Kilmer has a video on this technique too Is there a particularly good hose to try this on?

I also bought a spark plug ignition tester bulb. It won't tell me if the coil is going bad, but it will definitely tell me whether or not there is any spark at all (I.E. NATS). That should get in this weekend.

KP11520

Not sure if the NATS impedes the spark. It definitely disables the fuel injector pulses. Maybe the fuel pump as well. But with no fuel injectors, the pump doesn't matter. Now we're talking extra Insurance.

These ECU's don't get Alzheimer's. Syphilis...That's right..... and when left untreated, destroys the brain. Yup, yer ECU gots an STD.

Next time you use someone's code reader, make sure you use a condom on the plug. You don't know where that reader's been!

Imagine what you can get from the ones at AZ!

Good luck!

Shrout1

Ahh - thanks for the info! And here's me thinking it's the spark...

Lol you crack me up

Shrout1

Ok, taped crack on blow-by hose, disconnected MAF, no change.

1. What are the symptoms of NATS kicking in?
2. What are the symptoms of a bad ECU?
3. What is the best option to replace an ECU?
4. How much does a new / used ECU typically cost?
5. Is there a scanner of some kind that could tell me what is going on in the ECU?
6. How do I retrieve more diagnostic data from this car in its current state?
7. What codes are typically thrown for a bad MAF?

Turbobink

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps a first step should be to connect a scan tool and determine which, if any, DTCs are present.

Once the car tells you what's wrong, or can't cuz it's brain-dead, we'll know more.

Shrout1

p1320, p0325 with a pending p0325. Didn't have codes going into this, so I think they may have developed since I changed the MAF.

I'm going to attempt to use my multimeter to test the voltage getting to the coils... I'm a bit a of a kludge at it - still learning about electronics. Youtube to the rescue!

jholley

iTrader: (13)

Have you tested the fuel pressure yet? What brand pump did you install? Maybe that fuel pump has failed. When my OEM pump weakened out it stumbled around like crap.

vqmaxman

I am leaning towards the coil like i have through out this whole thread. The p1320 code is an faulty ignition coil signal. The wires or coil are not getting any signal to the ecu. I would also check the ignition switch first. I would also look into the coil testing. What brand coils you have and plugs.

Shrout1

I'm not thinking it's that - the pump whines when the car is put into accessory mode and I had a hard time depressurizing the system to change the filter. When I cut the old fuel line with the utility knife gas sprayed *everywhere* despite the fact that I had tried to run it out of fuel three times (fuse out for the pump, start the car). After replacing the fuel filter I took the car for a test drive - it still stumbled around, but it started, ran and idled.

I'm prone to think ignition system at this point too, but I never got any cylinder misfire codes. The car started misbehaving last fall and has gotten progressively worse. Never a p030x code. I've had a bad coil before and I know what that feels like... Even with a bad coil the car would start. All six simultaneously and within the span of 3 days? I've replaced 3 coils with Autozone Duralast coils so far. Not sure if any of them are OEM or not. I believe that the coils are a part of this problem, but I'm not prone to blame them just yet. I'm also not looking to spend $500 on a set of new factory coils. I don't have any junkyards nearby either (not within an hour).

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

To confirm, so you're saying you still have hard starts with the MAF disconnected? If so, that tells me your MAF is ok.

Why are we still talking about NATS? If the security light is not solid red while cranking, it's not a NATS problem.

I seriously doubt it's the ECU. People often point fingers at the ECU, but it never turns out to be the problem.

Shrout1

MAF disconnected, no start.

No security light while cranking.

You're probably right, it may not be the ECU. Everyone's prone to blame the software... lol.

I got out the multimeter - battery reads out 11.7v but terminal 1 on two of the front ignition coils shows no voltage when the ignition is in the "on" position. Will attach pictures momentarily.

Couldn't find the "ignition condensor" to disconnect it - that is mentioned in this youtube video that I used to test the voltage to the coils:

Shrout1

Ok pics of my test:

Battery @ 11.7 volts:


Probe pushed into terminal 1 with paperclip (probe was too thick)


Key in "on" position:


No voltage at terminal 1, grounded to the engine block:

KP11520

Ignition switch? Suddenly?

Are there any fuses or relays that could cause this combo of symptoms?

Remember, before you go postal, give me a few days to get down there to swap out parts!

I'll bring you some good Pizza and Bagels!

vqmaxman

[QUOTE=Shrout1;9143805]I'm not thinking it's that - the pump whines when the car is put into accessory mode and I had a hard time depressurizing the system to change the filter. When I cut the old fuel line with the utility knife gas sprayed *everywhere* despite the fact that I had tried to run it out of fuel three times (fuse out for the pump, start the car). After replacing the fuel filter I took the car for a test drive -


I am assuming your a 99 or a 99 SE-L. What smog are you cali/fed. I assume from looking at your pics your a fed spec. If your a 99 SE-L the coils are aftermarket sensitive. If the coils are Nissan oem they will work without a problem until the times up for them. The Mitsubishi and Hanshins are the only two oems provide. I don't remember if the Mitsu last longer than the Hans. I would put one of these two back and go from there. I have heard anything besides ngk plugs will give trouble.

Shrout1

That is a good thought and I will look at it! Any other method to help diagnose that? Engine cranks, but it could be a power issue...

Lol this car may only be worth a pizza and some bagels soon! You'll be the first to know, but you'll have to get here fast because it's probably going to end up in the bay lol. It's about half a mile but it might be worth the push...

Thanks! Put 6 new NGK sparks in at 160k miles - 20k miles ago.

Also, even a Hanshin ignition coil won't spark if it's not getting any electricity.

I am indeed a 99 SE-L and I have a California smog system. If only I had a federal :P The cat is shot at this point, all sorts of codes about it.

Shrout1

Further evidence that the coils aren't getting any power:


This coil hasn't thrown a code, so I don't think the coil is bad. I also held together all the contacts on this tester tool and had my friend turn the ignition one last time. No light - no electricity, no spark as far as I can tell.

vqmaxman

if it's the as usual that red light will kick on and stay on at all times key in or out of the ignition. I am sure there could be a breakeage in the harness somewhere. It was a known cause to the 5th gens that the harness breaks where the harness mounts in on top of the car from the firewall side top strutmount side.

Shrout1

Hmmm - what's involved with replacing that harness? Sounds painful lol

Could a bad ignition switch cause the engine to crank but no power be sent to the coils? I need to check the fuses still.

Shrout1

Hey I also want to say THANK YOU to all you guys. Just the fact that all of you are returning to my miserable situation and trying to help me through means a lot. Thanks for taking the time to check in and comment - I really appreciate it. Wouldn't have gotten this far without you all.

The Wizard

iTrader: (43)

For the heck of it, check this thread, post #13 and report back.

https://maxima.org/forums/4th-genera...ml#post9143859

vqmaxman

I would check the fuse box and the fuses. I think if the fuse is blown that would also not allow current to flow through and if the harness is also broken that it won't allow the current to flow either.

Shrout1

Fuse #33 does not appear to be blown. Attached a picture. Have to go put the coils back together and then I'll test the spare.

Ok, so no change no start. I'll leave the spare fuse in the #33 position (7.5Amp) just so that we know it's not the problem. Further digging needed in the fuse box? I need to take a few minutes to research, so technically I'm just being lazy by asking Have to go clean up the kitchen from breakfast lol.

Shrout1

Just bought an ignition switch as well from Amazon, should be in Tuesday. Vendor says it's OEM, hopefully it will be good quality.

Boredmder has a good video on swapping it, so I'll be trying this too.

KP11520

Well, since the fuse isn't the problem, let's go to the next step downstream, towards what's controlling all the current to everything that reads zero.

Try swapping your ECM relay with one of the same ones next to it.


http://pics.livejournal.com/boredmde...862hd/s640x480

And why is it every time I try to paste a picture link for a picture to reside in the post, the App won't take it?

93SCMax

iTrader: (3)

In a word, No. My experience with a bad ignition switch...turn the key and you get nothing. Like the battery is dead. There is no voltage going to the starter to crank it. That being said, I don't think you have an ignition switch problem since you have no problem cranking the car.

If you aren't getting power to one or more of the coils, continue chasing that lead. Relays, fuses and wires. Swap out fuses and relays with known good ones (already on the car). Check continuity of wires/harness to the coils.

Electrical gremlins are a *****. No disrespect but don't make it more complicated than it is. You don't need to chase down every new idea that gets presented (ie. bad ECU or ignition switch). Eliminate one potential root cause at a time before moving on to another, otherwise you are going to sink a lot of $ into just changing out parts.

Once again, good luck.

Shrout1

Silly question - which relay connects to the ECM and which one can I disconnect that's compatible but won't keep the car from starting?

KP11520

You have several Relay boxes under the hood. The ECM relay is on the battery side. Just to break your balloons that extra little bit, it might be marked EGI on the cover of the box. I'm not 100% sure about that. My wife is at work with our 99 SE-L. Most likely a Blue colored Relay.

From what I remember, the different value Relays each have different colors.

Across the engine on the passenger side is another Relay box., Find one that controls something that won't affect starting. Maybe the AC one? I'm not sure. But if it is the same color, it just might work.

Without my car being here, I'm shooting in the dark, so proceed with caution and common sense!