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I know I am kind of a noob still and have not posted in a great long while but I have an issue that has cropped up with my 99 Maxima GLE-- this will be a LONG post but I feel it necessary to explain everything that has happened with regards to this issue up to this point.
Last fall about a week before Thanksgiving, I drove the car into town and parked it. When I came back out to start it it just continually cranked-- no start. After messing with it in that parking lot for a couple days including replacing the battery, fuel pump, coil packs etc, I finally realized that the security light on the dash was coming on solid when I turned the key-- in other words the built-in factory immobilizer had gone out and was no longer recognizing my key.
I had it towed to the dealership and they wanted $2200 saying the ECU and the immobilizer unit had to be replaced. In despair I towed it home and started calling around. I found a locksmith who worked on cars and was familiar with this issue-- he came to the house and reprogrammed the ECU or the immobilizer or something and then rechipped my key, cost of $200 and the car started up. So that seemed to solve the issue-- EXCEPT that, the car had a noticeably longer crank time now before starting, and sometimes sort of "banged" into a start while cranking. A few months later (March of this year), one day the car would not start at all- just cranked and cranked. I figured all that cranking from the immobilizer issue may have worn out the solenoid, so I bought a new starter, installed it and the car fired right up. However over the last few months it developed the same symptoms, where it would have to crank longer before starting the car. But it would at least still start.
Fast forward to yesterday, where I was at my weekend job, slow night so I was watching a YouTube video on diagnosing a hard start issue. One thing the gentleman suggested was that the car's computer may not be providing enough fuel in the rail for the car to start properly. To test this, he suggested turning the ignition switch on and off a few times in 10 second intervals, then try starting the car. I tried this figuring what the heck- and guess what--the car would not even crank when I tried to start it. Nothing at all. Figuring I might have done something to the ignition switch, I messed around checking it, then relays, fuses, almost pulled the fuel pump (except I could still hear it priming when I turned the key.) Nothing seemed to be the culprit. Finally I removed the starter I had bought a few months ago, and bench tested it. Sometimes it spun up fine, other times I got nothing, but when I rapped on it it spun. I took it back to OReilly's and they swapped it for another. I installed it and BAM it fired right up. But I still had everything pulled apart under the hood, so after putting everything back together I went to turn the key and-- NOTHING. In complete despair I tried once more to turn the key and-- VOILA it fired up. I left it running and got it home. This afternoon I went out to try to start it again and NOTHING AGAIN.
What the HELL is going on>?????????!!!!!! All my fuses and relays are good, I get 12 volts on the trigger wire at the starter when I turn the key, I've got 12 volts at the constant power post on the starter, it is grounded properly... I've never seen anything like this but I NEED this car to start as it is the only car I have that will make long trips if necessary. It runs absolutely great once it starts. Does this have something to do with the immobilizer issue?? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thx
I don't have much immediate help but my first thought is that the immobilizer, fuel pressure, and starter issues are not related but unfortunate coincidence. I may be wrong, please correct me.
I had/have the same deal with an O'Reilly starter. I replaced my old one because it got intermittent and then just quit cranking(was burned up). The O'Reilly one was immediately intermittent as well, sometimes cranks strong, sometimes just clicks, but used it for months. Finally today I got stuck and it won't even click anymore. So tomorrow I'm taking it back to O'Reilly and see what they say. I pretty much ruled out any electrical issues outside the starter when I replaced the last one.
When you turn the key, can you hear the starter solenoid click? It will be louder and in additional to some relays clicking at the same time.
I have found with mine that if I click it back and forth very fast, it will usually catch and start. I think either the solenoid is sticky or switch contacts that the solenoid actuates are trash(corroded, etc).
My issues sound as strange as yours. Literally it's dead one minute and starts strong the next, or not. Very frustrating and confusing.
Hi, it sure seems like I am hearing the solenoid click when I turn the key, but then that would rule out another thought I had that possibly the inline plug in the trigger wire just before the starter was bad... if that was an issue it could explain why the new starter worked immediately after installing but after I moved it a bit putting everything back together it didn't--then it did again, and now it won't again.
However I find it interesting that you are having similar issues with your O'Reilly starter that I am having with mine although as I stated above, the one I had in there the past few months DID always crank and start the car, just developed an increasingly longer crank time. Was your O'Reilly starter a reman or brand new? (Mine were both reman.) Thx for your suggestions and help.
Ok so you do have power to the solenoid at least. I think it may be possible to have power there but just not enough, but that would be harder to test for and I think pretty unlikely.
Mine was actually new so that is one difference.
By longer cranking time, do you mean that the starter turned slower and so it was difficult to start the engine? Or that the starter turned the normal speed but still took more time cranking to start the engine?
While my original starter was failing, if it would crank at all, it usually turned much slower than normal, behaving like the battery is low.
The one I had on there for the past few months always seemed to crank normal speed, but just took a longer time to start the engine. Also, sometimes the cranking would intermittently cut out completely and then come right back. But it always cranked, I never got just nothing like I am getting now. That flipping on/ off of my ignition switch key last night did something but I don't know what. The first time I flipped the key on/ off (at 10 second intervals) 3 times, and then the starter DID crank low- first time it had ever done that. Then I tried it again several minutes later, and after that I got absolutely zilch. So you see how this is mind boggling-- what in the world could flipping the key back and forth do to cause the starter not to spin up at all? Oh and BTW I only flipped the key to the ON position, not the Start position. So it shouldn't have directly affected the starter at all. Whatever it did, a new starter band-aided it but I don't think that's the real issue.
I mean yeah I seem to have power to the starter, I hooked up a multimeter to test for voltage on that plug inline on the trigger wire right before the solenoid, and it shows 12 volts every time I turned the key. But the starter last night never spun up on the car after that stupid key-flipping incident- only after I removed it from the car and bench tested it, and then it was intermittent. That's why I took it back thinking it was bad, but the new one is kind of acting the same way only I at least got it to start the car to drive it home.
I have found with mine that if I click it back and forth very fast, it will usually catch and start. I think either the solenoid is sticky or switch contacts that the solenoid actuates are trash(corroded, etc).
Hi again Plat, after reading your quote above, I decided to try a similar test, and what do you know, it worked. If I simply turn the key to START I get nothing, but if I then release the key back to the ON position and then quickly turn it back to START, it starts every time! This sounds to me like bad or sticky contacts in the switch as you mention above, and I must have made it worse when I flipped the key on/ off several times the other day. But when it does catch it starts immediately with the new starter-- so I'll have to wait and see whether that lasts, or if the new starter begins exhibiting the same "slowing down" signs over the next couple months.
Anyway thanks very much for your assistance, at least the car will start now with this "trick" of the key. I suppose I could look at it as an additional theft detterent...
Hi again Plat, after reading your quote above, I decided to try a similar test, and what do you know, it worked. If I simply turn the key to START I get nothing, but if I then release the key back to the ON position and then quickly turn it back to START, it starts every time! This sounds to me like bad or sticky contacts in the switch as you mention above, and I must have made it worse when I flipped the key on/ off several times the other day. But when it does catch it starts immediately with the new starter-- so I'll have to wait and see whether that lasts, or if the new starter begins exhibiting the same "slowing down" signs over the next couple months.
Anyway thanks very much for your assistance, at least the car will start now with this "trick" of the key. I suppose I could look at it as an additional theft detterent...
I'd say it's probably something you should fix an ignition switch is $30, wouldn't want the problem to get worse and leave you stranded when you coulda fixed it
I'd say it's probably something you should fix an ignition switch is $30, wouldn't want the problem to get worse and leave you stranded when you coulda fixed it
Will a new electrical part of the switch cause any problems with the immobilizer at all?
Is it something in this portion of the switch that senses the proper key?
Also, the switch has the wires soldered to it- will these have to be desoldered off the old one and resoldered to the nerw?
I'd think the soldered wires lead to a harness to disconnect it I've yet to run into a part that is soldered on. The nats uses an antenna to detect the chip in the key, separate from the ignition switch. https://youtu.be/4ykT9uCJXSY
Yes I've seen that video- it does not show whether the wires detach from a harness or have to be desoldered from the switch- the guy just takes the switch out shows it to the camera and then puts it back in.
This is the video I followed to check my electrical part of the switch, but when I had mine apart it sure looked like various wires went to different harnesses/ locations up in the dash, although I did not follow any of the leads too closely.
I'd prefer to know for 100% sure before I go messing around with it. I am not that good with soldering
The electrical part of the ignition switch is held to the rear of the mechanical ignition switch on by 2 screws, no soldering required. The wires that are soldered onto the ignition switch go into a connector for easy disconnect/reconnect. You will have to remove the metal collar that holds the steering column up against the bottom of the dash to get to the connector.
This switch has nothing to do with sensing the key.
The electrical part of the ignition switch is held to the rear of the mechanical ignition switch on by 2 screws, no soldering required. The wires that are soldered onto the ignition switch go into a connector for easy disconnect/reconnect. You will have to remove the metal collar that holds the steering column up against the bottom of the dash to get to the connector.
This switch has nothing to do with sensing the key.
Great--thank you!!!
P.S. Where would be the best place to buy a replacement switch? I see Autozone has one for $30-- would that one be OK vs a genuine OEM Nissan one?
I've been using SMP Intermotor ignition switches for years without issue. Sometimes they cost as much as OEM. It just depends on the deal you can get on OEM vs. SMP Intermotor and availability on weekends and after hours.
I don't mean to be difficult but I'm not understanding the reasoning behind blaming the ignition switch.
I mean, all the switch should do is power the solenoid, and it clearly does because we can hear it moving from the resting to activated position. { maybe the ign. switch isn't providing enough current to solenoid? } Also, when he manually tested the starter with no ignition switch by directly jumping the trigger terminal to +12v, the behavior was the same. When he hit the starter, the behavior changed, which indicates that the solenoid/contacts inside the starter are the issue.
My theory is that the high-current contacts that are actuated by the solenoid are dirty, misaligned, loose, or something that causes them to intermittently fail to carry current when they should be closed. This is why rapidly turning the key to start and back usually makes it work because the solenoid is hammering the contacts until they eventually hit the sweet spot and close properly.
For me, this problem started the day I installed an O'Reilly starter.
Plat brings up a good point. Here's the deal:
If I simply turn the key to START, car does not start. (I get nothing.)
If I turn the key to START, release and immediately turn back to START, it starts with NO hesitation.
At first glance this would indeed seem to indicate a faulty ignition switch, except that when I tested the trigger wire from the ignition switch at the starter, it read 12 volts simply by turning the key directly to START. I didn't have to go through all that jazz of flipping the key back and forth. Which would indicate the ignition switch IS doing its job.
So is the starter sticking and I am somehow adding extra "oomph" by releasing the key and immeidately turning it back to START again?? Unfortunately I only figured out this little trick after replacing the starter, so I have no other starter to test to determine if I would have to do the same thing.
Sorry Plat you and I posted basically the same thing at the same time.
The more I think about it the more I believe you are probably correct. The old O'Reillys starter (the one I had on there for the last few months) was going bad, I replaced it with another O'Reillys starter whose solenoid is behaving eratically and the key flip trick is simply a workaround. I'd love to order a new starter from Amazon for half the price of what I paid for the O'Reillys remanufactured stuff. But the trick is convincing the counter guys to give me a complete refund...
But when you turn key to start the first time, do you even get the solenoid click?
Actually now I'm not so sure-- I believe maybe what I thought was the solenoid clicking is in actuality just a relay somewhere. But I really need someone standing over the solenoid while I turn the key to be absolutely sure.
Well there is another option if you can't get a full refund. I just exchanged my starter back to O'Reilly today for another of the same part and the new one is made in Malaysia, old one was made in China. I can see slight differences in construction between these two so I'm hoping that the new one may be better quality. So far at least it's starting perfect.
These were both new btw.
So maybe you could see what options there are to exchange for and maybe get a better one. Just a thought.
Actually now I'm not so sure-- I believe maybe what I thought was the solenoid clicking is in actuality just a relay somewhere. But I really need someone standing over the solenoid while I turn the key to be absolutely sure.
Oh ok, well that makes it harder to be totally sure that it's the starter and not ign. switch. Maybe could try disconnecting the trigger wire, and then try starting the car to listen to what it sounds like when there is not solenoid movement. Then put the trigger back on and try again, listen for a difference if the solenoid clicks.
Oh ok, well that makes it harder to be totally sure that it's the starter and not ign. switch. Maybe could try disconnecting the trigger wire, and then try starting the car to listen to what it sounds like when there is not solenoid movement. Then put the trigger back on and try again, listen for a difference if the solenoid clicks.
Here's the conundrum in a nutshell:
I AM getting 12 volts on that trigger wire every single time I turn the key to START normally. That would seem to indicate everything in line before the starter is functioning normally.
However, this problem of getting nothing at all when turning the key DID only start after I flipped the key back and forth in the ignition switch. So that would lead me to believe it's the switch!
Maybe the best thing to do is go ahead and grab the replacment ignition switch from autozone (it's only $30) and see if that fixes it-- if it doesn't that almost certainly narrows it down to the starter (or solenoid).
UPDATE:
New ignition switch seems to have solved the problem- car starts on first turn of the key every time now. But, I have a couple of followup questions:
1. The green ignition lock cylinder light bulb went out while I was working on the switch- upon inspection of the bulb it appears one of the filaments has broken so the bulb is no longer any good. Does anyone know the part # or bulb classification # for this bulb off the top of their head?
2. While I had the steering column surround off, I noticed a wire harness plug with nothing going to it, taped to another thicker harness directly underneath the steering column. I tried to take photos attached here, with the arrows pointing to the harness plug in question:
Sorry my photos aren't any better- but can anyone tell what this plug is supposed to go to? (An optional accessory I do not have perhaps?)
UPDATE:
New ignition switch seems to have solved the problem- car starts on first turn of the key every time now. But, I have a couple of followup questions:
1. The green ignition lock cylinder light bulb went out while I was working on the switch- upon inspection of the bulb it appears one of the filaments has broken so the bulb is no longer any good. Does anyone know the part # or bulb classification # for this bulb off the top of their head?
2. While I had the steering column surround off, I noticed a wire harness plug with nothing going to it, taped to another thicker harness directly underneath the steering column. I tried to take photos attached here, with the arrows pointing to the harness plug in question:
Sorry my photos aren't any better- but can anyone tell what this plug is supposed to go to? (An optional accessory I do not have perhaps?)
Thanks everyone!
3mm LED with the "wedge tip". I'm pretty sure the stock is incandescent but LEDs are the new age and last longer. You can put any color in, I LED swapped my old car red and the red key ring looked pretty cool. If you want to change the color scheme try to think to include green because the clock color can't be changed without using cellophane to "filter" it, and depending on what cellophane you use you will end up with different shades, it might be blurry, and will be too dim if you have to use more than 1 layer to get the color you want. IMO better to just work it into the color scheme (purple/green/white something that works)
2. While I had the steering column surround off, I noticed a wire harness plug with nothing going to it, taped to another thicker harness directly underneath the steering column. I tried to take photos attached here, with the arrows pointing to the harness plug in question:
Sorry my photos aren't any better- but can anyone tell what this plug is supposed to go to? (An optional accessory I do not have perhaps?)
Thanks everyone!
Do you have fog lights? I think all Maxima have a harness for fog lights. Though only some have the switch on the turn signal stalk that would plug into the standard wiring harness.
Aaah- fog lights, no I don't have them. I bet that's what that plug is for esp. if the control is on the steering column stalk.
I found the correct replacement bulb at autozone, and have fixed that as well. So right now everything seems to be in good working order-- car starts first turn of the key every time. I wonder if the faulty ignition switch caused the old starter to have to work harder to start, at any rate I'm hoping replacing both will keep the problem solved!
07-14-2018, 07:45 PM
