SleeperSE

- I was just wondering if anyone was using an Intercooler on their supercharger kits. I was a bit concerned because I saw how much boost some guys were running and I was wondering how well their engines were handling it all.
- Does anybody know if the knock sensor kicks in regularly on SC'd cars? I would imagine that the timing gets really really pulled back when you combine high compression and high boost - but I haven't really been to this board in a while and I'm a bit behind with the latest news.

Thanks.

NotNew!!NewSN!!

hopefully i plan on boosting next spring and i really wanted to run the intercooler route since its gonna be such a hole in the pocket i figure i might as well go all the way. im also very interested to see what kind of work is involved with this, sorry i dont have an answer for you, i just want to see who is as well.

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Delio has a custom intercooler on his car. Do a search and try to find a pic of his ride is nice. I am running 10LBS of boost but no intercooler. I can hear the knock sensor when I was at the track hitting 10PSI. I changed my spark plugs to 2 step colder to somewhat help that problem.

NotNew!!NewSN!!

i wanted to run about 9 pounds on phil96se's old pulley.(u dont wanna know how much he is runnin now), can the engine and tranny handle that stock?

Wizeguy

Intercooler on a supercharger? I'm a rookie with this boost stuff, but I thought the intercooler was to cool the hot exhaust from a turbo. I couldn't imagine you could really cool much more then what the intake tempature is. I'd think it would just slow the flow.

<Shrugs>

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

You cant slow the pressure, 9 plus PSI is a lot theres no way to slow that down, all that pressure creates heat so the intercooler would bring the temperature of the air down, whether your supercharged or turbocharged. Vortech they make intercoolers for other vehicles like Mustangs and civics, but those kits cost $4000.00

jran76

Vortech calls it a aftercooler....

bullseye

I believe you intercool a turbo and aftercool a supercharger...

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

They both have the same effect, regardless of what you call them. SteveChicagoSC is running one on his SC 99 auto.

brodaiga

I have a custom front mounted intercooler from a volvo on my SC, check out my profile.

jgadlage

iTrader: (1)

Aftercooler- Uses a resevior that is cools the incoming air by routing it through a water/ice mixture within the box.
Intercooler- Usually a front mounted tube/fin design intercooler.

dashingMax

Will I need an intercooler with a 3.33" pulley with 1 step colder plugs? I do plan on installing a Permacool oil cooler...

Thanks Jamie

jhans114

iTrader: (3)

You could also try Water/alcohol injection to prevent knocking and cool the charge of air at a fraction of the cost of an intercooler/aftercooler...just $0.02 Check my homepage for Aquamist set up.

i999Maximagirl

iTrader: (2)

Delios engine bay before the new additions

dashingMax

Is Water/alcohol injection necessary with a 3.33" pulley?
The SC will have a CAI with no intercooler/aftercooler...
Thx.

jhans114

iTrader: (3)

I dont know about necessary but since Im in Miami FL and its hot as heck down here then it is very helpfull and will prevent knocking and pinging. The water injection starts to jet once the boost kicks in, which is good and bad. Good cause it will cool the charge of the blower. Bad, because an intercooler always is cooling. But it does the job...

jgadlage

iTrader: (1)

Water/alcohol injection and using an intercooler are not necessary, but it will greatly help you reduce the temperatures of the incoming air which does help prevent detonation from occuring while allowing you to run more boost.

dashingMax

I seriously plan on a SC...very very soon with a 3.33" pulley, and ONLY a custom CAI + oil cooler.

If I do no more boost than a 3.33" pulley (~8 psi), will I require water/alcohol injection on lets say, a 100 degree day?!

Thanks

jgadlage

iTrader: (1)

No you will not need water/alcohol injection if you are using an 8lb pulley (3.33). My guess is that you will get boost happy and want to go to a smaller size before too long.

The thing is that water/alcohol injection isn't necessary at any levels. What it does is give you better, more dense air which leads to better quality boost. Its like this:

You can get lower intake temperatures if you are injecting N20 or using a water/alcohol injection kit, but it isn't necessary for you to do so. The up side is that you get better boost since your intake temps are lower. At what level would it be required that you use N20 or water/alcohol injection? There is no set specific level, but why would you not want to do this at any level of boost? Better boost is better boost no matter at what level it's at.

Some could say that it might not be effective for lower amounts of boost (6lbs), but isn't quality boost better over just the sheer amount that you can put out? My guess is that if you are looking to make your setup as good as it can be, then you should use water/alcohol injection and/or n20 injection to get the best boost out of your SC that you can.

ru4real

iTrader: (3)

I believe the correct term is "aftercooler", for a heat exchanger mounted after a turbo or supercharger.
"Intercooler" should really be used to describe the cooler between two turbos that are connected in series.
Everyone commonly uses "intercooler", and there's no confusion, so no harm done.

dashingMax

Very much so appreciate you advice jgadlage.
On the same note, what is the downside of using water/alcohol injection? Doesn't alcohol (methanol) "eat" away metal?
Thanks again

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

You could allways use an ignition retard box also to prevent detonation from high boost.

straight six

You mean like the J&S Safeguard? I have heard about this from a few enthusiasts on other boards but i've never read any thread about it here. Seems like it would be cheap insurance for any boosted Max, is it a good product?

jgadlage

iTrader: (1)

Downside is that you have to keep buying methonal for your water/alcohol injection system. Not that it costs a lot or that you have to fill it up frequently (refill monthly I am guessing at $5 a bottle). As to whether or not it eats at metal, I am pretty sure that it doesn't. This is just a guess though.

I have heard of the J&S Safeguard also, but there hasn't been too much in depth coverage of what it is, what it does, installation, etc. Kind of the basic description but nothing really in depth

jran76

MardiGras did a good post on my350z.com, check it out, he may have done the same here, it is under technical on my350z.com though....

jran76

I'm stickin to my story and what the other guy said, here is a quote from some research I did:

The Terminology

An aftercooler is a heat exchanger placed between the compressor and the engine’s inlet. Vortech uses the term "aftercooler" as we feel it is more accurate; it is "after" the compressor. "Intercooler" means a heat exchanger placed between two compressors in a multi-stage system, but has been used as a synonym for an aftercooler ever since it was incorrectly stuck on the backend of a Volvo in about 1981. Aftercoolers and intercoolers are both also called charge coolers.

The History of Aftercoolers

The earliest aftercoolers appeared on supercharged racecars shortly after the turn of the century. They took the form of fins placed on the exterior of the discharge ducts which extended into the air stream.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/safeguard.html

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=122775

It pretty much does what it says, boost referenced ignition retard, knock retard by individual cylinders, selectable nitrous retard.

Install reguires splicing into the coil triger wires, taping into the knock sensor wire, vacumee line, nitrous trigger wire, power, ground, velcro

I'm taking it racing this weekend and will have some more info next week.

SleeperSE

- Wizeguy, welcome to the wonderful world of Forced Induction. Here's the basics:

- When you compress any gas, it becomes hotter. This is a simple rule of physics. It doesn't matter whether you are compressing the air with a turbo or a supercharger - both are cramming air into your engine and that creates heat.
- Heat is bad. Why? Heat is bad because hotter air charges are less dense than colder air charges. This means that your engine is getting less Oxygen (necessary for combustion), and thus, will make less power for a given amount of boost. (You know how your car feels faster on a cold day... its the same thing.)
- Additionally, if your engine is being force-fed hot air, the temperatures inside get too high. When things get too hot inside, you can get knock/pinging/detonation. Knock is what happens when the internal temperatures are so hot that they will ignite the gasoline before its supposed to. This can actually melt holes through your beautiful pistons. Granted, the Maxima does have a knock sensor, which will help out, but you will still lose power.

- Anyhow, heat is bad. This is why we use intercoolers to cool down the intake charge before it is fed into the engine. Think of it as a radiator for boost. (Intercoolers do NOT cool hot exhaust from a turbo... they cool fresh clean boost that will soon be running into the intake manifold. There is no point in cooling down exhaust gasses - they're leaving anyway.)

jgadlage

iTrader: (1)

jran76,
If you are going to talk about this, I just want to make sure you are using the right terminology. I have picked up a lot of info from my years of modding my SC'ed 89 Saleen. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the SC game and intercooling and aftercooling.

Intercoolers are usually placed right after the Supercharger located in the cars front fascia (Front Mounted Intercooler). It doesn't matter if you are running 1 or 2 turbos or if you are running a Supercharger. A cooling medium (tube fin type intercooler EX. Spearco (http://www.spearcointercoolers.com/) ) placed in the front fascia or fog light location (Supra, etc...) is called an intercooler.

An aftercooler is just that. It is a way to cool down the intake charge even more "after" your intake air has gone through your intercooler. This is usually in the form of the Vortech Aftercooler (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/aftercoolers/) which consists of a water/ice resevior that chills the incoming air

jran76

OK, you are referring to an air to water aftercooler. I agree. I am simply referring to the term "aftercooler." I think the word intercooler is often misaplied to a aftercooler, read the quote I have, I will provide the link if need be, I am just lazy. Vortech makes the same thing for civic's, integra's, etc. I was too lazy to expalin in my first post. I only used Vortech as a reference, my fault. I am under the impression that in the case of a S/C it would be a aftercooler, in the true sense of the term, simply beacuse it is after the compressor. Maybe Vortech is a bad example, but again in true meaning, most intercoolers are actually aftercoolers. I am very familar with turbos and quite familar with S/C. I have researched this quite a bit simply beacuse of the engineer in me coming out. Again, I don't disagree, but in the true sense of the word I would say what they are referring to is a aftercooler. ru4real made the same point. Vortech simply makes a type of aftercooler, the same thing is done very often with an intercooler in WRC to cool the air charge (cold water tank). SCC did this to their Ford Focus project rally car. I feel my terminology is correct. Again it is the engineer in me to use the technical definition of a word, not the common use.

straight six

Thanks for the links, i'm just about ready to start on my project car. I am looking at a mint 98 GXE 5-spd to replace my 98 Auto, I just hope the deal goes as expected.........