Supercharger Info on Automatic Transmissions
07-11-2002, 11:19 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 378
Supercharger Info on Automatic Transmissions
All,
I've been reading up on Stillen Supercharger upgrades for the 5th gens and have come to a few conclusions:
a. Check with avalon for cheapest available price.
b. Stillen won't sell it to you if you have an Auto.
c. Autos require some custom intake piping to route the intake around the automatic transmission.
d. Anyone considering an SC install w/o a valve body upgrade, TCM TSB (if applicable) and tranny cooler is insane.
What I'm looking for specifically, is what are the exact requirements for c (listed above). What was required, specifically with much detail, on making resolving the air intake issues? Pictures? Materials? Technical Details? Thanks for your response.
I've seen this issue raised several times, but only found "use search n00b", or lots of innuendo smilies
without any forthcoming info.
This is an actual upgrade path for me (and other owners I'm sure), verus taking a loss in trade-in a year from now. Please do me a favor and divulge your experience.
Thanks for your time.
And to any postwhores:
First of all, I've been browsing these forums forever...so don't shoot me for asking questions despite my lame-o ranking. If you have ever lost an account on maxima.org and tried to get it resolved, you know what I'm talking about.
Second, I've parsed through 600 threads using the search function (yes....600, try supercharged under 5th Gen). PLease don't use a token BS response "use the search function". Go and read through some of the inquiries into Superchargers and you get really ****ed off about the 30th time someone flames with a "go use the search" response.
I've been reading up on Stillen Supercharger upgrades for the 5th gens and have come to a few conclusions:
a. Check with avalon for cheapest available price.
b. Stillen won't sell it to you if you have an Auto.
c. Autos require some custom intake piping to route the intake around the automatic transmission.
d. Anyone considering an SC install w/o a valve body upgrade, TCM TSB (if applicable) and tranny cooler is insane.
What I'm looking for specifically, is what are the exact requirements for c (listed above). What was required, specifically with much detail, on making resolving the air intake issues? Pictures? Materials? Technical Details? Thanks for your response.
I've seen this issue raised several times, but only found "use search n00b", or lots of innuendo smilies
without any forthcoming info.This is an actual upgrade path for me (and other owners I'm sure), verus taking a loss in trade-in a year from now. Please do me a favor and divulge your experience.
Thanks for your time.
And to any postwhores:
First of all, I've been browsing these forums forever...so don't shoot me for asking questions despite my lame-o ranking. If you have ever lost an account on maxima.org and tried to get it resolved, you know what I'm talking about.
Second, I've parsed through 600 threads using the search function (yes....600, try supercharged under 5th Gen). PLease don't use a token BS response "use the search function". Go and read through some of the inquiries into Superchargers and you get really ****ed off about the 30th time someone flames with a "go use the search" response.
07-12-2002, 12:38 AM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 378
Hopefully, if done correctly, we can compile the information so its easily accessible to all (hence the wordy subject line, etc). I would like to keep the correspondence in the forum so people might stumble across it in the future. Anyone who has gone through this who can contribute I would appreciate it. Kev especially.
While I've reviewed Kev's site, I didn't gather all the info I needed to make an informed decision.
I'm sure there will be a significant group of people who are going to revisit a possible SC once they get lowballed a couple of grand on trade-in value.
While I've reviewed Kev's site, I didn't gather all the info I needed to make an informed decision.
I'm sure there will be a significant group of people who are going to revisit a possible SC once they get lowballed a couple of grand on trade-in value.
07-12-2002, 09:49 AM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 378
Its been done, on several occasions. I'm just trying to find out how for our benefit. Some modifications were required to make the Stillen kit work with an auto, in addition to tranny upgrades. I would like to find out what those modifications are and what they require.
07-12-2002, 10:21 AM
#7
Installed my blower last week - it was done on wednesday. Haven't really pushed it too hard yet (not much at least), thus the cooler is still in my trunk. No VB.
I managed to fit the cone just fine - kev's CAI is the route you should follow (which I will take later)- esp considering the fact it's nearly a straight pipe just being extended into the wheel well; in the stock V2 setup the air travels from the bottom driver's side at the front of the engine bay - exposed to more heat and less air flow - and it has to travel accross the engine through a few kinks before finally hitting the blower. Meh..
Anyways, the biggest issue I've found with the tranny is shifting from 1st to 2nd - first gear flies by amazingly fast, and my tranny was already unhappy with me to begin with. You may call me crazy for not putting a cooler in, but that won't really do much for me as I'm babying the car up until 3rd most of the time : so long as you relax a little bit after giving the car a push, the tranny will eventually cool off - the cooler alone obviously won't make anything easier on the internals while shifting (or slipping should I say
).
I am going to be doing a Level 10 rebuild - and am looking at finding a tranny from a wrecker's that I can take apart - sending the VB to Don. Also (to be done) I am picking up the protorque torque convertor. I am going to try to do it all at once, as long as I'm happy the transmission won't give way before a rebuild. Feathering it a bit at shift points when at WOT definately helps and causes less stress on the box as it is.
Also, I figured out the other day what that weird little jiggle at WOT in my steering wheel is - I'm Canadian and got an Auto with VLSD! :P Just another thing to break maybe ...
Enjoy; the job will take you a day or two depending on how well you know your car, and whether you can leave yourself at work for a long time
I didn't sleep for two days (worked on car at night after work, went to work, worked on car again), but it paid off hehe.
Jer
I managed to fit the cone just fine - kev's CAI is the route you should follow (which I will take later)- esp considering the fact it's nearly a straight pipe just being extended into the wheel well; in the stock V2 setup the air travels from the bottom driver's side at the front of the engine bay - exposed to more heat and less air flow - and it has to travel accross the engine through a few kinks before finally hitting the blower. Meh..
Anyways, the biggest issue I've found with the tranny is shifting from 1st to 2nd - first gear flies by amazingly fast, and my tranny was already unhappy with me to begin with. You may call me crazy for not putting a cooler in, but that won't really do much for me as I'm babying the car up until 3rd most of the time : so long as you relax a little bit after giving the car a push, the tranny will eventually cool off - the cooler alone obviously won't make anything easier on the internals while shifting (or slipping should I say
).I am going to be doing a Level 10 rebuild - and am looking at finding a tranny from a wrecker's that I can take apart - sending the VB to Don. Also (to be done) I am picking up the protorque torque convertor. I am going to try to do it all at once, as long as I'm happy the transmission won't give way before a rebuild. Feathering it a bit at shift points when at WOT definately helps and causes less stress on the box as it is.
Also, I figured out the other day what that weird little jiggle at WOT in my steering wheel is - I'm Canadian and got an Auto with VLSD! :P Just another thing to break maybe ...
Enjoy; the job will take you a day or two depending on how well you know your car, and whether you can leave yourself at work for a long time
I didn't sleep for two days (worked on car at night after work, went to work, worked on car again), but it paid off hehe.Jer
Originally posted by 2kSeattleMax
Its been done, on several occasions. I'm just trying to find out how for our benefit. Some modifications were required to make the Stillen kit work with an auto, in addition to tranny upgrades. I would like to find out what those modifications are and what they require.
Its been done, on several occasions. I'm just trying to find out how for our benefit. Some modifications were required to make the Stillen kit work with an auto, in addition to tranny upgrades. I would like to find out what those modifications are and what they require.
07-12-2002, 11:11 AM
#8
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
As Jer said, the intake piping issue can be skipped by routing a tube directly from the passenger-side wheel well into the supercharger. You get colder air this way and better flow.
As for the tranny, you should get the VB mod and cooler first. First to second gear shift is too slow to keep up with the power of the SC, so you're tranny will slip if you accelerate quickly. Installation of the tranny cooler is a PITA if the SC piping is in place, so install it before you install the SC.
You also need to get some gauges to monitor everything, and might consider synthetic oil.
I bought my SC used from the first guy with the SC on an automatic, so all the pain and trials were taken care of on his car and then the SC was transplanted to my car.
Before you go much further, consider this: this is not an install-and-forget-about-it mod, you have to watch it constantly. When I start the car, I have to sit and wait 3-5 minutes for the engine to warm up to operating temperature.
Also, get to know a good mechanic or have some money ready for repairs. The 5-year drivetrain warranty is voided, and there's not too much leeway for arguing with the dealer about it.
Good luck!
As for the tranny, you should get the VB mod and cooler first. First to second gear shift is too slow to keep up with the power of the SC, so you're tranny will slip if you accelerate quickly. Installation of the tranny cooler is a PITA if the SC piping is in place, so install it before you install the SC.
You also need to get some gauges to monitor everything, and might consider synthetic oil.
I bought my SC used from the first guy with the SC on an automatic, so all the pain and trials were taken care of on his car and then the SC was transplanted to my car.
Before you go much further, consider this: this is not an install-and-forget-about-it mod, you have to watch it constantly. When I start the car, I have to sit and wait 3-5 minutes for the engine to warm up to operating temperature.
Also, get to know a good mechanic or have some money ready for repairs. The 5-year drivetrain warranty is voided, and there's not too much leeway for arguing with the dealer about it.
Good luck!
07-12-2002, 11:17 AM
#9
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Some other things to consider:
Figure out which pulley size you want to go with. I went with stock pulley and am now regretting it because it's going to cost me another chunk of cash to get a smaller one installed.
The aluminum tensioner and idler pulleys from DanNY is a good idea, but I'm not sure if they're still available. The plastic ones have been known to melt.
Use Redline or another synthetic brand of ATF for the auto tranny.
Be prepared to upgrade your suspension as well, to help control the extra power. You'll start driving a little more risky, so your car better be ready to handle it.
Figure out which pulley size you want to go with. I went with stock pulley and am now regretting it because it's going to cost me another chunk of cash to get a smaller one installed.
The aluminum tensioner and idler pulleys from DanNY is a good idea, but I'm not sure if they're still available. The plastic ones have been known to melt.
Use Redline or another synthetic brand of ATF for the auto tranny.
Be prepared to upgrade your suspension as well, to help control the extra power. You'll start driving a little more risky, so your car better be ready to handle it.
07-12-2002, 02:31 PM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 378
Thanks for the input. To reiterate:
Initial concerns (aside from tranny related ones) on the Supercharger revolve around the air intake? These were mitigated by fabing a CAI on the passenger side of the car? I saw Kev's pictures, which shows a cone filter type araingement hose clamped onto his blower on the passenger side.
I'm trying to get as crystal clear on what has to happen to make this mod feasible. The tranny related stuff is a given, and is a red herring in this thread. I think we can agree you would have to be looking for trouble to avoid beefing up the luxo-shifting maxima tranny.
Remember, the more you divulge....the easier it is for people to assess the supercharger upgrade as a future upgrade possiblility.
Initial concerns (aside from tranny related ones) on the Supercharger revolve around the air intake? These were mitigated by fabing a CAI on the passenger side of the car? I saw Kev's pictures, which shows a cone filter type araingement hose clamped onto his blower on the passenger side.
I'm trying to get as crystal clear on what has to happen to make this mod feasible. The tranny related stuff is a given, and is a red herring in this thread. I think we can agree you would have to be looking for trouble to avoid beefing up the luxo-shifting maxima tranny.
Remember, the more you divulge....the easier it is for people to assess the supercharger upgrade as a future upgrade possiblility.
07-12-2002, 03:04 PM
#11
Very interesting how you mention the warm-up - I've noticed a light rattle when in gear on a cold start - detonation? Happens only if you go into gear for the first 3-4 minutes, and only at idle. I'm thinking my plugs have to go anyways - I'm going with a 0.039gap on some NGK copper BKR6E's tonight after work; I'll see how the factory plugs took the first week of boost with factory gap. I MUST get my hands on autotap or something soon : I want to try a load of things, but want to get a good detailed idea of how the car likes it. My father has a 2000 Maxima as well (GXE - Auto), so I have an excellent stock guinea pig to compare my 2000 SE to
Maybe we need a supercharger/turbocharger forum? I think we could all learn from it and have something to talk about; without boring the "slower" maximas (j/k)
It would make it an easier way to resource too : it took me about two shifts at work to search the forums for my all supercharger research..
Since I am one of the very few canadians with boost, and have owned two GTP's (damn POS's) with blowers, I nominate myself as a moderator of the new forum tee hee.
Jer
Maybe we need a supercharger/turbocharger forum? I think we could all learn from it and have something to talk about; without boring the "slower" maximas
(j/k)It would make it an easier way to resource too : it took me about two shifts at work to search the forums for my all supercharger research..
Since I am one of the very few canadians with boost, and have owned two GTP's (damn POS's) with blowers, I nominate myself as a moderator of the new forum tee hee.
Jer
Originally posted by Tanman
As Jer said, the intake piping issue can be skipped by routing a tube directly from the passenger-side wheel well into the supercharger. You get colder air this way and better flow.
As for the tranny, you should get the VB mod and cooler first. First to second gear shift is too slow to keep up with the power of the SC, so you're tranny will slip if you accelerate quickly. Installation of the tranny cooler is a PITA if the SC piping is in place, so install it before you install the SC.
You also need to get some gauges to monitor everything, and might consider synthetic oil.
I bought my SC used from the first guy with the SC on an automatic, so all the pain and trials were taken care of on his car and then the SC was transplanted to my car.
Before you go much further, consider this: this is not an install-and-forget-about-it mod, you have to watch it constantly. When I start the car, I have to sit and wait 3-5 minutes for the engine to warm up to operating temperature.
Also, get to know a good mechanic or have some money ready for repairs. The 5-year drivetrain warranty is voided, and there's not too much leeway for arguing with the dealer about it.
Good luck!
As Jer said, the intake piping issue can be skipped by routing a tube directly from the passenger-side wheel well into the supercharger. You get colder air this way and better flow.
As for the tranny, you should get the VB mod and cooler first. First to second gear shift is too slow to keep up with the power of the SC, so you're tranny will slip if you accelerate quickly. Installation of the tranny cooler is a PITA if the SC piping is in place, so install it before you install the SC.
You also need to get some gauges to monitor everything, and might consider synthetic oil.
I bought my SC used from the first guy with the SC on an automatic, so all the pain and trials were taken care of on his car and then the SC was transplanted to my car.
Before you go much further, consider this: this is not an install-and-forget-about-it mod, you have to watch it constantly. When I start the car, I have to sit and wait 3-5 minutes for the engine to warm up to operating temperature.
Also, get to know a good mechanic or have some money ready for repairs. The 5-year drivetrain warranty is voided, and there's not too much leeway for arguing with the dealer about it.
Good luck!
07-12-2002, 04:14 PM
#12
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,267
Originally posted by Jer
Very interesting how you mention the warm-up - I've noticed a light rattle when in gear on a cold start - detonation? Happens only if you go into gear for the first 3-4 minutes, and only at idle. I'm thinking my plugs have to go anyways - I'm going with a 0.039gap on some NGK copper BKR6E's tonight after work; I'll see how the factory plugs took the first week of boost with factory gap. I MUST get my hands on autotap or something soon
Very interesting how you mention the warm-up - I've noticed a light rattle when in gear on a cold start - detonation? Happens only if you go into gear for the first 3-4 minutes, and only at idle. I'm thinking my plugs have to go anyways - I'm going with a 0.039gap on some NGK copper BKR6E's tonight after work; I'll see how the factory plugs took the first week of boost with factory gap. I MUST get my hands on autotap or something soon
Yeah, Stillen's instructions say that you should wait until the engine is at operating temperature before driving it, otherwise the oil may not be circulating sufficiently through the SC and you could damage it.
I need to get my spark plugs changed too. Check the How-to stickies for instructions for the 5th-gen if you plan on changing them yourself.
07-12-2002, 10:44 PM
#13
I got mine directly from my dealer at Stillen. Talk to either Kenny or Dean. Kenny is actually beter informed about the way to make it work. Look at mine.
www.cardomain.com/id/maxstyle
PM me with any questions or go to Y2KEV
Tranny cooler $60 at autozone
Valvebody- Don at mobiletek
Intake piping to fit around tranny- Just use the techical tap (smack it till it fits)
Biggest pain in the butt- Getting your hands in to get to the stupid new plastic pulley.
www.cardomain.com/id/maxstyle
PM me with any questions or go to Y2KEV
Tranny cooler $60 at autozone
Valvebody- Don at mobiletek
Intake piping to fit around tranny- Just use the techical tap (smack it till it fits)
Biggest pain in the butt- Getting your hands in to get to the stupid new plastic pulley.
07-13-2002, 01:00 AM
#14
Autotap is one of the OBD-II scanners out there.. pretty pricy, but I like its interface (haven't seen the one from obd-2.org hands-on yet).
I never really noticed that Stillen note though it's common sense really... as a rule of thumb I never push my cars until I'm satisfied they are running nice and comfy warm
Too late about the how to's.. I don't think I screwed anything up though; the car runs silky smooth now; I love it
I never really noticed that Stillen note though it's common sense really... as a rule of thumb I never push my cars until I'm satisfied they are running nice and comfy warm
Too late about the how to's.. I don't think I screwed anything up though; the car runs silky smooth now; I love it
Originally posted by Tanman
What's an auto-tap?
Yeah, Stillen's instructions say that you should wait until the engine is at operating temperature before driving it, otherwise the oil may not be circulating sufficiently through the SC and you could damage it.
I need to get my spark plugs changed too. Check the How-to stickies for instructions for the 5th-gen if you plan on changing them yourself.
What's an auto-tap?
Yeah, Stillen's instructions say that you should wait until the engine is at operating temperature before driving it, otherwise the oil may not be circulating sufficiently through the SC and you could damage it.
I need to get my spark plugs changed too. Check the How-to stickies for instructions for the 5th-gen if you plan on changing them yourself.
07-13-2002, 01:02 AM
#15
Ew. $60. You can get a hayden 404 for $32 at bulkparts.com!
Originally posted by 20th maxstyle
I got mine directly from my dealer at Stillen. Talk to either Kenny or Dean. Kenny is actually beter informed about the way to make it work. Look at mine.
www.cardomain.com/id/maxstyle
PM me with any questions or go to Y2KEV
Tranny cooler $60 at autozone
Valvebody- Don at mobiletek
Intake piping to fit around tranny- Just use the techical tap (smack it till it fits)
Biggest pain in the butt- Getting your hands in to get to the stupid new plastic pulley.
I got mine directly from my dealer at Stillen. Talk to either Kenny or Dean. Kenny is actually beter informed about the way to make it work. Look at mine.
www.cardomain.com/id/maxstyle
PM me with any questions or go to Y2KEV
Tranny cooler $60 at autozone
Valvebody- Don at mobiletek
Intake piping to fit around tranny- Just use the techical tap (smack it till it fits)
Biggest pain in the butt- Getting your hands in to get to the stupid new plastic pulley.
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