I just sent the following e-mail to Steve at Whalen Tire:

"On page http://www.whalentire.com./tiresvehi...m?vehicle=8436 you indicate that the 235/45R17 tire will fit properly on a Nissan Maxima OEM 17" rim. You are mistaken. The Nissan Maxima OEM 17" rim is only 7.0" wide. If you do a little research, you'll discover that the minimum acceptable rim width for the 235/45R17 from any manufacturer is 7.5". This is also the minimum acceptable rim width for the 235/45R17 tire published by the Tire and Rim Association of America, the governing body for tire specifications in the United States.

I'd suggest you remove the 235/45R17 as an acceptable option for the Nissan Maxima OEM 17" rim without delay. Failure to do so could expose you to unnecessary liability."

Once again, I advise you obtain tire specifications from the MANUFACTURER of the tire you're interested in purchasing. Never trust a tire dealer to provide you with accurate information.

Caveat emptor!

 

Are you telling me that you can't put 235 45 17s on an OEM 17" Max rim????!!!!!

JUST KIDDING

 

 

Y2KSE, do you hunt for these things?? I must admit though you are definitely the master of tires on this forum!!! People like you giving solid info is what makes this forum great!

 

Nope. Just happened across it in my travels.

 

Are we back to your tire fetish ??....

 

No comment.

 

Just the subject line of this post is ridiculous. Research is the one thing we do constantly at Whalen Tire. We want to make sure our web site provides the most up to date and accurate information to help our customer's make informed decisions. Our site provides more info about the dimensions of the tire than any other major tire dealer out there. Not just 4 days ago we made some changes to the select tire page on our site and added the phrase "will fit your stock size" if the tires listed were designed for the same rim diameter as the car came with stock. Yes the tire and rim association recommends that this tire only be mounted on a minimum of 7.5 inch rim. This does not mean that a 235 will not mount safely on a 7" wide wheel. It will cause a slight crown to the tread and would not be optimal for a 7” wide wheel but it certainly would not be unsafe. The tire and rim association also says a 235/50R17 can be mounted on a 6.5” wide wheel. The 50 series tire has a sidewall .4” taller than the 45 series but I would still not mount it on a 6.5” wide wheel mostly for cosmetic reasons. Had you given us about one more week you would see we are in the process of adding even more data to the tire size page to even better inform our customers with the recommended rim widths for each size. We love to have input from our customers and potential customers but to say this is a reason not to trust tire dealers is an irresponsible comment. We have sold wheels and wheel an tire packages to many members of this great forum and I think you will find all have been 100% satisfied with our customer service and prices. We strive to inform our customers, which cannot be said about many web sites out there that deal in wheels and tires.

 

u wasted bandwidth on this site to sign up and post one message? It's not you're going to post again... omg...

 

Well In seeing the 1st psoting .. I ran out to my car to see the size.. I have the 235/45 tires on my 17 inch SE rims..As a matter of fact tirerack here in town recommended them to me. Now I Am wondering what effects it will have.. but reading whalentires' response it seems that it would be minimal at best ( the effects) Or at least I hope. GULP!!

-ACTS

 

All I was doing was stating our side of the argument. The post is called "why you should NEVER trust a tire dealer" and I did not think that remark was fair. We are trustworthy and take our customer's safety seriously. I would assume everyone on this forum would like to hear all sides of the story not just one.

 

You're wasting your time, Whalentire. Hot-headed know-it-alls dominate the Maxima.org board. Don't bother arguing with these people, just take them to court and sue them for slander.

 

Had Whalen Tire acknowledged that their specs were incorrect, I would not have posted again. But I, for one, am shocked that they insist on standing behind a tire and rim combination that absolutely no manufacturer of 235/45R17 tires will authorize. Unless they can prove me wrong in that allegation, I have absolutely no intention of changing my position. And what are they going to sue me for, pointing out the facts? (By the way, if telling the truth makes me a hot-headed know-it-all, that's a moniker I'll proudly bear. And for those who have taken the time to follow my tire threads rather than cast aspersions at me, you realize I HOPE TO HELL that Whalen Tire can prove me wrong! Nobody would love to run 235/45R17 tires on their OEM rims more than I would.)

Once again, you have to ask yourself a question. Who knows more about tire safety, Whalen Tires or the manufacturers of the tires they carry?

In my view, Whalen Tire's statement denotes an irresponsible disregard of basic tire safety. And anyone who deals with them deserves what they get.

PS: In fairness to Whalen Tire, I will note that this thread was not initially aimed at them. I was simply using them as an example. But now that they've blatently stepped into the crosshairs, they're fair game AFAIC. I might add that when I pointed out rim width errors to Goodyear and Nitto in their 235/45R17 specifications, their response was much different than Whalen's. They immediately modified their specifications and thanked me for bringing the errors to their attention. Score two for the hot-headed know-it-all.

PPS: I'll offer an olive branch to Whalen. If they will retract their recommendation of 235/45R17 tires on our OEM 17x7 rims, I will delete this entire thread. And I won't even say, "score three". What do you say, Whalen? Want to follow in Goodyear's and Nitto's footsteps?

 

Ok y2kse, you're the expert, right?

Tell us what known deficiencies might occur as a result of using Whalentire's recommends. Why is it so important to you that they change their stats and figures?

 

My only interest is in presenting the facts. What people do with them is their business. And if you want to learn more about tire safety, why don't you contact the Tire and Rim Association of America. They're the standards organization responsible for establishing tire and rim specifications. Here's their web site:

http://www.us-tra.org/main.html

By the way, Tire and Rim Association Contour (Rim Width) Charts are available on Page 5 of the Frequently Asked Questions sticky thread at the top of the 5th Gen Forum. You can check out rim width specifications for tires with diameters ranging from 12" to 20". Enjoy.

 

Never trust any tire dealer. That is extreme!

 

Do you really think mounting 235s on stock 17s will affect your safety? You are only increasing the width by ONE CENTIMETER.

You can talk all you want about Tire and Rim Associations and what they say. What organizations say is not always absolutley true to the last degree.

There are tons of people here who have mounted 235s, and even 245s on their factory 17 by 7s. And There are plenty of 4th gen. guys who have mounted 225s on their factory 16 by 6.5s. In the case of the 4th gens, the tire width is increased by only 1 cm as well.

If mounting 235s on 7" wide rims is really unsafe, then Nissan should've made the factory rims at least 7.5" wide, as the factory tires are only 1cm narrower than 235s.

If 235s will fail on 7" wide rims, then so will the 225s.

keep in mind that Nissan recommends that in order to maintain absolute safety, we DO NOT mod our Maximas.

You need to be able to distinguish from beuracratic truth, and "street" truth.

 

Hmmmmm, I wonder. Well it sure wouldn't hurt to double check with the manufacturer anyway, right see5?

 

I have read many of your posts arguing this point with many other members and it is just unfortunate for us that a week ago we put the words "will fit your factory wheels" under the plus 0 fitments in the tire search page of our web site. This was once again only meant to say that the tires were made to fit the same diameter wheels as came stock on the car. I made sure this was removed and our site will soon list the recommended rim widths for each tire. I can see by your previous posts that you love to get a hold of an issue and argue it to death. I know what the rim and tire association says but explain this to me.

235/45R17 Section width approx 9.3" side wall 4.2" tall
235/50R17 Section width approx 9.3" side wall 4.6" tall

Now the 50 series will fit a 6.5" wheel but the 45 series needs a whole 1" wider wheel because of .4" of sidewall? Yes the 45 series sidewall will not flex as much because it is shorter but 1" seems extreme.

Also I am not trying to dispute the tire and rim association that you so diligently defend but if the 235 makes sense to you explain this to me...

245/45R17 Section width 9.6" side wall 4.3" tall

The tire and rim association says 7.5" to 9" wide wheel exactly the same as the 235/45R17. You are going to defend the fact that .1" of side wall means the beads on the tire can come in 2.1 narrower than the section width of the tire but the 235 beads can only come in 1.8" narrower than the section width? To fit a 7.0 wheel the 235/45 bead would have to come in 2.3". Now a 225/45R17 which fits 7 to 8.5" wide wheels is 8.9" wide has a side wall of 4.0" tall and the beads can come in 1.9".

Facts according to rim association

245/45R17 with 4.3 sidewall beed can flex in 2.1"
235/45R17 with 4.2 sidewall beads can flex in 1.8"
225/45R17 with 4.0 Sidewall beads can flex in 1.9"

if a 235/45R17 was put on a 7" wide wheel sidewalls flex in 2.3"

Seems to me that having the sidewall move in a total of .2” farther on both sides would not cause any problems. I saw in another post that you were responding to that someone ran a set of 235/45R17 on his stock wheels with no problems. Also in this post acts13 said tirerack recommended the 235 to him and they are very careful about making recommendations just as much as we are. This all seems silly like we are splitting hairs but it all comes down to your quote “NEVER trust a tire dealer”. Maybe you should take your quote into the next tire shop you take your car into that you want a flat fixed and see how much they want to work on your car.

 

there are many places that wont mount a 235 on a 7". Sams, NTB and Sears among them. Then again, Tirerack is just sending you tires, they dont have to take the real heat of mounting them. Sams will order you whatever you ask for. That doesnt mean they will put them on when they arrive

You are all mistaken about y2kse, nobody likes to argue til they are blue in the face like this. it's exhausting. He doest give a rats a$$ what you mount on your car. But he wont stand by and let the 235-ers say its ok 'cause nobody got killed with it yet. Nothing wrong with that.

As for Whalen Tire, I'm glad to see them here. I would love to find out 235s were ok. I really dont *want* to buy Pilots for $1000+

 

To put an end to this once and for all I want to make an offer to all Maxima orders who are looking for a good set of 225/50R17 and don't want to spend the money on a Michelin. Kumho has come out with a new Ecsta KH11 and we just recieved our first shipment of them in. They are W spped rated very nice tires. Our normal price on the is $104.00 a tire I will offer them to any members of Maxima.org for $94.00. I have included a picture.

 

Are these a step up from the Kuhmo Ecsta 712? Those have a fairly poor lifespan.

 

Looking in the mouth of a gift horse is not polite. It's cool Whalen has offered a peace branch.
I am following the thread with interest. I just ordered 235/50/17 Pilots from Costco today and was told the wait could be as long as 3 weeks! Maybe I will save my cash and buy these Kuhmo's instead. Are their lifespan as bad as the stock RE92's?

 

Most of our customers have reported good mileage on the 712. I have seen a few local cars get over 30,000 miles out of them with regular rotations. As a performance tire if they are drive hard you might not get quite as much but that is going to happen with any tire. The KH11 is brand new it is designed as a cross between an ultra high performance tire and luxury touring tire. Has a grippy compound but a tread design that helps it stay quiet even as it wears. Many performance tires especially directional tires tend to get noisier as they wear. I am anxious to see how these tires work in the real world as they are much better priced than any 225/50R17 you will find out there. If anyone wants to be the first on the block the $94.00 price tag should help make the decision...

 

I asked a legitamite question about a tire I am unfamiliar with, foolio.

Gift horse....

 

This whole thread is a waste of internet bandwidth... It's your car, mount what you want on it. If we all want to be on the squeaky safe side, pull your Y pipes off, your catbacks, your springs.. and everything else on there. Im sure some pointy headed Nissan " Safety Expert " .. can post a comment in writing that Y2k can throw in our face every time he gets a chance to, that would tell us why MODDING is UNSAFE ! Pull that Big Brake kit off your ride too, Nissan says that tampering with the stocck system is "unsafe" . Turn your Bose down , with Linkin Park blasting, that is "unsafe" for your ears. Last but not least , use protection, so you can be "SAFE".. and for some of you, so that you never re-produce...

 

speaking of wastes of bandwidth. Youre right, why get so uptight about it?

 

oh and I do think y2kse was alittle harsh on Whalen. I mean, he's not doing it to trick us into getting the wrong tire. He obviously has years of tire selling experience and backs his claims up with some hard numbers. I think the big difference here is that Whalen has run the numbers and has made their call. I respect that.

I only take issue with arguements other arguements like the 'hasnt killed me yet'

 

Unfortunately, some people have nothing to contribute except to complain about the contributions of others. I have no time to respond to such childishness. My response to the kloogy's of the world will always be the same:

No comment!

 

I acknowledge that I may have been a bit rough on Whalen, Tim. But I simply don't believe that Whalen or any other tire dealer has the engineering expertise to determine which tire and rim specifications can be adhered to and which can be violated while continuing to maintain a proper safety margin. If someone wants to take the word of a tire dealer over every single tire manufacturer in the world without exception as well as the governing organization for the establishment of tire and rim specifications, then be my guest. Just don't ask me to join you.

 

Thank you. If you wish, I will delete this thread as promised.

I have no need to argue. I have the facts on my side.

Any explanation I could give you would be utterly meaningless. I am not an engineer. If you believe that your calculations justify mounting a 235/45R17 tire on a 7.0"-wide rim, get a manufacturer of 235/45R17 tires . . . ANY MANUFACTURER OF 235/45R17 TIRES . . . to agree with you. Otherwise, I'm not impressed with your calculations.

No worries, mate. I'm what you'd call an informed purchaser. And I wouldn't do business with a tire dealer that was willing to recommend or mount out-of-spec tires on my OEM rims.

 

actually, I will really consider Whalentire. He reached his own conclusions with hard numbers and stood by/defended them. I mean, he's not just grabbin stuff out of thin air. Most vendors would have just reported the post and ask for it to be deleted. He gets some points for making his case with me.

I'm not personally persuaded to run 235s, but he just offered a nice discount on some 225's so I dont need to.

 

i'm really confused after reading this....

 

Don't be confused, K Pazzo 6. It's an elegant argument, but it still doesn't hold water. Keep asking yourself this simple question. If it's really safe to mount 235/45R17 tires on 7.0"-wide rims, why won't one single tire manufacturer endorse doing so?

It appears to me that Whalen has escalated tire dealer negligence to an entirely new level. They now purport to provide a mathematical justification for continuing to violate manufacturer specifications. I wonder how long they'd remain in business if I sent a copy of their "justification" to the legal departments of each of the manufacturers whose 235/45R17 tires they carry.

By the way, I spoke to Tirerack some time ago and confronted them with the facts. They stated that they would not continue to recommend 235/45R17 tires for use on 7.0"-wide rims. The fact that they appear to have gone back on their word simply underscores my argument that it's not safe to trust tire dealers to provide you with accurate information concerning tire specifications. You MUST get your information from the MANUFACTURER of the tires you wish to purchase. And if you want to argue the manufacturer's specifications with someone, don't argue them with me or any other member of this org. And don't argue them with Whalen or Tirerack or any other tire dealer for that matter. Take your argument directly to the manufacturer and get them to change their specifications if you can.

PS: Here's another little question to ponder. What if Whalen turns out to be wrong and you actually experience a tire failure as the result of running out-of-spec tires on your OEM rims. Who are you going to fall back on then . . . assuming you're still alive to fall back on anyone, that is?

Remember, the life you save may be your own!

 

If you would take the time to read my previous post you would see that at no time did we condone the use of 235/45R17 on a 7" wide wheel. It was a slight change we made on our web site to say these tires would match the rim diameter of your car. Why do we do this? You would be surprised how many customers ask us if they can put 17" tires on their stock 15" wheels. It was a simple error that at this point is not even an issue as I stated the words "will fit your stock wheels" have been removed and our site now shows the rim widths acceptable for each tire. The only reason I stated the argument about the 235/45R17 was to show we know how tire sizes work. We understand tires as that is our job. You have taken two things 1. a slight error on our web site 2. Your wheel size chart and proclaimed you know all there is to know about tires (much more than the non-trust worthy tire dealers out there) which I simply want to point out that the wheel size chart does not always make sense. I think I would feel more unsafe with a 235/50R17 on a 6.5" wheel than I would a 235/45R17 on a 7" wheel. Yes someone at the tire and wheel association has decided that this is unsafe and all the manufacturers followed them association like sheep as will we by not recommending it but from a logical standpoint it does not seem to make sense. If I get an association to tell you that you can walk on water will you give it a try? Lastly I will say it one more time to make sure that this is put to rest…..”As a company we do not recommend that a 235/45R17 be mounted on a 7” and we make this recommendation solely on the information provided to us by the Tire and Rim Association and the manufacturers of the tires.”

 

Thank you. I'm satisfied with your response. I would, however, encourage you to pursue your line of reasoning with the manufacturers whose tires you carry for a very simple reason. I'm selfish, and I want to be able to run 235/45R17 tires on my OEM 7.0"-wide rims. But I, for one, will NOT run out-of-spec tires on my rims. Believe me when I tell you that nothing would please me more than for you to persuade one or more of your manufacturers to support your calculations and publicly declare 235/45R17 tires to be in-spec on my rims. Do that and you'll gain a customer for life.

AFAIC, this matter is closed.