Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Your kidding right? Nissan near the bottom? I read that the a few of the 4 gens rated one of the most reliable in the used car category. And don't try to nitpick some of the very few 1/2 way reliable american cars to the Japanese. There is really no case there. Plus I do believe Mitsu****zy, Mazda and Suzuki are below Nissan. So how near the bottom is that?

MAX2000JP

I am not kidding at all.....My source is JD Power. The rankings were in Automotive News a few months ago. Nissan was near the bottom(lowest 25%) and Infiniti near the top. I will try and find the report if u dont believe me.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

As since Nissan owns Infiniti what does that tell you? Actual reliability reports or just consumer perception of reliability?

I'll go with Consumer Reports thanks. They send out hundreds of thousands of suveys and their questions are directed squarely at reliability.

Chris91SE

iTrader: (1)

JD Power is suck

MAX2000JP

You can go with Consumer Reports.....All I am saying is that Nissan Quality is average at best. JD Power did mention something about the Nissan vs Infiniti quality difference though.


And JD Power doesnt suck. It is the standard in the industry. I trust it over consumer reports, which is terrible when it comes to automotive testing.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

That's fine. I never said Nissan quality is the greatest. But I believe CR uses data based on reliability on the car VS JD powers just uses the consumers opinion on how they were treated at the dealer correct? There is a big difference. Now I know Nissan's customer service is pretty horrible for Japanese car maker(which means no worse the ave for an American maker). But customer satisfaction and the car's actual reliablity are two different things. You need to find out how JD does their surveys.



Well an Q45 @ over $65,000 had BETTER have some freakin' better quality materials. But a maxima and I35? I doubt the quality is that different.

And Consumer reports doesn't suck for their car reliability reports. How is JD so much better in that regard? And CR might not get the best #'s for performance out of their car but they CLEARLY state they attempt to drive the car like the owner would.
Please list out the differences for the JD and CS in regards on how they represent reliability of cars. I'd like to know why you like them so much? Just because they happened to received data in your favor?

Chris91SE

iTrader: (1)

What he said

jemartin

How 'bout an 02 WS6 Trans Am, unlike a camaro, those things are hot and if the insurance wasn't so High I may have bought one. Or if you want to go old school, go with a 82-92 Firebird Transam. I'm actually thinking about getting one for a second car. And if your like me there is only one thing that I would do with a 82 Trans Am. Be totally awesome and do this http://krdreams.homestead.com/Conversion.HTML

If I get enough money I may looking into getting one.

MAX2000JP

Consumer Reports is the one that gets the attention from the public, but the Automotive Industry standard is JD Power. A lot of people dont see the result because they dont read trade publications, such as Automotive News. JD power does tests for quality, reliablity, etc.

If u want to read more about JD power( www.jdpower.com )...go to their website. It doesnt provide current info though.

In there latest study of quality Nissan was down near the bottom, like I stated before.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

What makes J.D. Power consumer ratings so different?

For more than 33 years, J.D. Power and Associates has been conducting quality and customer satisfaction research based on survey responses from millions of consumers worldwide.

From their site. See customer satisfaction? That's not actual data. That's only the consumer service experience which may or may not represent actual reliability.

Our product and service rankings in no way reflect our opinions or preferences, and we do not review, judge or test products and services ourselves.

Here they admit to not having any 1st hand experience with the product they are reviewing. Again only relying on the surveys(which may or may not represent your actual opinion given the same situation)

SkylineGTR

Regardless of how low Nissan is at the bottom of the list, a Mustang GTs interior is FAR lower than a Maxima. Infiniti > Nissan > Ford

MAX2000JP

Geez....there is no end to this.....JD POWER DOES QUALITY STUDIES. They also do Initial Quality Studies.


BTW....How do u think CR's get their data???? From Owners

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

How do they do their quality studies??? Is it broken down like CR studies??? It's clear that CR asks very specific questions in order to get data on 14 different mechanical and electrical areas of the car. Not to mention the safety, performance and vehicle specs.

JD might be better you haven't stated anything to prove it. You only say, "it's the industry standard". Standard for what? I don't really see how an industry can really use consumer opinion on how reliable their cars ACTUALLY are. But I can see how JD can be the industry standard on how the consumer PERCEIVES how reliable the car is.

If there is a site that shows a JD test that compares to the CR one, let me see it.

SkylineGTR

Mustang vs Maxima evolved into JD vs CR ... lets see where this goes ...

MAX2000JP

JD power does their studies by breaking it down into multiple sections. It details multiple aspects of the car. My dad just got one a while back for his A8. If I can find it, I will scan it. IIRC the survey is a couple pages long and contains $1 for your time.

BTW...U can see reliablity on the JD Power website
http://www.jdpower.com/auto/pvs/Powe...1&vid=20010300

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Ok. It seems you have to go though an example so I used Nissan-maxima. Long term reliability was "better than most" one below the best rating. The picture is a 2k maxima so where are you getting Nissan maxima is shat? I think you just disproved yourself twice.

1) The maxima faired well
2) The report I see is nothing to the CR reports as far as detail.

Now punch in Ford Mustang and see what happens

MAX2000JP

1.) Compare it to its competitors...For some reason the Grand Prix gets a better rating...Weird
2.) Read the FAQ's for the website....All the info isnt available online.

And by no means am I knocking Nissan. Its just that it seems a lot of people dont read a lot of the good information out there.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

It has better mechanical but worse long term reliability. And it kicked the Mustang's butt.

Still don't see your point, according to your own link, the 2000-2001 maxima faired very well.

And I think you ARE knocking Nissan. Especially when you say it's the bottom when in reality, it scored one from the top in long term reliability and scored no lower than 3 in any category.

MAX2000JP

I am not knocking Nissan. You misunderstood my whole statement. Nissan AS A WHOLE is below average in quality/reliablity. That was what I was originally referring to. Yes the Maxima might be above average because it is Nissan's flagship, but as a whole its different.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Well you were bashing the maxima a minute ago. Well then as a whole every domestic maker is way below ave.

MAX2000JP

Actually....Some Brands are above the Average. Quit making assumptions.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Like which ones? BTW I ran every model for Nissan / Honda / Subaru / Mitsu, to see how they stacked up. Sorry but Nissan wasn't at the bottom or near the bottom by your own link. You want me to run Ford/chevy/gm the same way? Do I even need to?

If you have some proof we can see or link to, show it. I'm not trying to argue but your own links have proven your statements otherwise.

MAX2000JP

Again read the FAQs...they dont provide ALL the information. The data I am referring to is the most current and came out less than 6 months ago. It was in an article in Automotive news.

Nissan was at the bottom....below average. Which I have been stating for the last umpteen posts.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I disagree. I need proof.

MAX2000JP

I know what I read.....If you want proof email Automotive News or JD power.

This was data in Automotive News...which is what the majority of dealers, suppliers, and manufacturer read. Nissan was below average and thats the facts.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Ok. From what I read from JD and CR, Ford Chevy and GM faired even worse. From the same JD, Mitsu, Suzuki were worse than Nissan.

It's a good thing I have a 3-gen maxima

MAX2000JP

How about this....When the article comes out again next summer I will scan it for everyone.

That issue of Automotive News I am referring to has probably been recycled into something new.

Kojiro_FtT

Ok, I went to the JD website and did the thing where u enter the models you are interested in and what is most important to you, thent they rank them. Here are some results:

Everything at not important except Long Term Reliability is at full, meaning Very Important:
1. Nissan Maxima
2. Acura RSX
3. Subaru Impreza
4. Chevy Camaro
5. Pontiac Firebird
6. Ford Mustang

Everything low, except Mechanical Quality is at Very Important:
1. Nissan Maxima
2. Chevy Camaro
3. Pontiac Firebird
4. Ford Mustang
5. Acura RSX
6. Subaru Impreza

Everything low, but Performance at Very Important:
1. Chevy Camaro
2. Pontiac Firebird
3. Nissan Maxima
4. Acura RSX
5. Ford Mustang
6. Subaru Impreza


Safety at very important (very interesting result!):
1. Ford Mustang
2. Nissan Maxima
3. Chevy Camaro
4. Pontiac Firebird
5. Acura RSX
6. Subaru Impreza

So it looks like the Ford is the safest, maybe it should be used as the family car and leave the quality performance job to the rest of em!

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (1)

dude...if JD Power rated the Grand Prix better in initial quality over the Maxima...they just completely lost ALL their credibility.

RMcoolX

My 99GT ran a 14.0 bone stock at HRP. $1100 later in performance mods and I got her down to 13.46. Slips and videos are available at my webspace. For a few months, I had my GT and my 01 MaxSE at the same time, so I speak from experience, not speculation. I also have owned '89 and '95 Maximas and a '90GT.

The least of my worries was losing to a Maxima in any race with my 99GT, so I don't know what Rubman is smoking for him to think that he is defeating 99+ GT's. Hell, even the autos run 14.4 stock! With equal drivers, it really is not much of a contest at all. I'm sure that a heavily modded Max will post a better slip, but I never ran into one at the track or on the street. 94-98 GT's are dogs; auto 2000+Maximas will beat an auto 94-98 GT, and the same result for sticks.

The Maxima has better quality and is a better all around car. The 99+ GT is faster and far more performance oriented, but the quality is still there. I street raced mine virtually everyday and pounded on it at the track many times and NEVER had to take it back to the dealer. I sold it after 2 years only because I really wanted a new Ford Supercrew truck.

My best advice to you MAX2000JP is to test drive one. That may be all it will take for you to buy the GT. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see you come back to a Maxima sometime soon. Both are great at what they do. Good luck.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

car and driver sept 2k2- auto stang gt 0-60 6.3 1/4 15.1 @ 93
now car and driver does seem to have slower numbers than motor trend, but i dont think its feasable that a 99 gt can run 14.4 stock.

SkylineGTR

A well driven 2002 Maxima 6spd will run almost 14 flat, well driven means basically a very good launch, 2.1 60ft. From a roll on, the Maxima would outrun a 99+ Mustang GT.

RMcoolX

Everyone at the Corral and Mustangworld messageboards are still laughing at those numbers. We've all seen hundreds of bone-stock 99+ GT timeslips and NEVER has a 15 been performed, even with track newbies. Any 99+GT running a 15.0 or above should be returned to the dealer, SERIOUSLY!

Cardinal rule - "Never take to heart what magazine racers run". In my experience, most magazine racer readers have not ran at a real tracks. Use a mag time as a possible reference, but not as the rule. But if you want to use magazine times, then there are 2 Motor Trend issues and another C/D issue that have 5-sp 99+ GT's running 14.1@98 and 14.0@98. Auto's have traditionally run 4 tenths slower post 98GT.

Since you don't believe my slips or what I say, then spend just a little time at corral.net or mustangworld.com.

RMcoolX

I totally agree, as long as the 99+GT is an auto.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

i honestly dont care about the times. however i know ford autos are not nearly as efficient as chevy's and thus a .4 difference is not correct imo, because i used to have one.

RMcoolX

You are 100% correct for ANY GT before 99. 94-98 GT's ran a full second slower than sticks, stock vs. stock. Is that the year model you owned? 0.4 is the difference between stock 99 GT's driven at the same track on the same day by two equally skilled drivers.

SkylineGTR

dude, 99+GT 5spd wont outrun a 6spd 2k2 from a roll.

RMcoolX

OK, dude, whatever. You have never driven one obviously, but I question have you REALLY raced one?

What mph would you start this "from a roll" race at? After you answer, I'm gonna email you my stock dynograph and we'll compare wheel hp/torque values at any given mph. I will show you that not only will the hp numbers be higher, but the torque numbers will also be much higher in the lighter GT.

Look guy, I'm on YOUR side. I mean, I DID KEEP MY MAXIMA, not the GT, remember! The stick 02- Max does have the capability to beat a stock GT under certain variables, but 85% of the time it just ain't gonna happen!

SkylineGTR

it doesnt matter how much torque it puts out in each gear, from a 40mph roll on, a 6spd 2k2 WILL walk a 99+ GT, stock vs stock. And a Stang GT isnt lighter than a Maxima. Let me prove how torque and hp doesnt matter as much as u are comparing dynos. A Prelude Si, with the 2.3L 160hp 150 or so ftlbs of torque, with a 5spd tranny, will get beat BIG time from a roll by a Civic Si with 160hp and 111ftlbs of torque. On a dyno, they put out similar HP numbers, but the Prelude puts a siginificant amount of torque more than the Civic Si. Lack of torque can be made up for by shorter gearing and holding the gear longer.

I myself drive an auto 2k SE, and yes ive raced several, off the line, its not even worth trying, bc i will lose by a lot, regardless of auto or 5spd. from 40mph roll, i walk the autos, and get walked by 5spds. There have been instances against rather modded ones where it was more than being walked, but thats what i got the juice for, unles they have juice too

SkylineGTR

Coupes walk faster than Convertibles.