I agree.

 

yah I'm hoping someone would dyno pretty soon with and without injen on. I read a lot about these intakes and I was most likely going to buy the injen, but after the original post I'm starting to lean towards the Frankencar. Lets hope we get some results so others like myself can figure out which intake to get..

 

I've had mine since February '01 and I've just tipped 13K.

But seriously folks...Phillip's response was great...well timed and very diplomatic. As far as ajahearn's experience putting doubt in your head about the Injen intake's value...I think there are enough doubts about his testing process to invalidate the overall results of the test (absolutely no offense intended to ajahearn).

As far as Franken vs. Injen's dyno on their web site, I don't see any reason to trust either of them over the other as they are both posted for the purpose of showing their own product's value and you must take them for what they are...advertisements (no offense to either Phillip or Steve at all). I don't buy Big Mac's because I really think McDonald's "loves to see me smile"...nor do Big Mac's ever put a smile on my face.

Additionally, every car is different...if you really want to make the best choice for your car you need to dyno these intakes side-by-side on the same day, with similar cool-down in between, etc., etc. Additionally, if you live in Phoenix, AZ vs. Ancorage, AK you need to consider whether your car is taking in hot air all the time or cold air all the time. There are so many considerations, I think that a blanket statement about either intakes value over stock or over each other is impossible.

I think it is fair to say that gains between all the NA intake options are so similar that, for most of you, all that matters is your butt dyno and that you're happy with it. For those of you who are comfortable shelling out the dough to really make the 'which is better' determination...I think taking Phillip's advice on process and buying one of each intake is the only way to do it.

In the end...if you're NA (like me)...you're slow and you can't do $hit about it.

 

As the person who did the dyno post I'd like to add my comments here. I believe all intakes are going to have a marginal affect. You really need to move up to NOS, Turbo, or S/C before you will see anything appreciable.

 

Well said!

 

 

Very good point

 

Most people don't realized how we get FU<KED in the winter by the extra methanol or whatever they add.

I also forgot, that out here around 4-6months ago(I think) they SCREWED us by switching from 92-octane to 91-octane at the pumps. So, maybe he's running slightly lower octane gas PLUS using the winter blend now.


I'M STILL INTERESTED IN A REDYNO! I got $20 with YOUR name on it!

 

Just pour some 100 octane race gas in the tank to counteract the bad winter gas. Also, there is alot of bad gas in general gettings to the pumps. Some people I know with Eclipses that have visual knock senors sometimes are seeing alot of knock after they fill up at various gas stations.

Jesse

 

Alex,

You guys had 92 down there?

 

 

I'd rather see someone else do the dyno test. They are $65 for a set and the lead time is usually a month. I'm sure if I do it and things appear as they did the first time, I will just get a whole set of new reasons why this test was wrong.

 

I have a rhetorical question, given the learning time for the ECU. If a stock vehicle dyno's back to back after replacing the intake with an aftermarket one - wouldn't the ECU still be in the pre-intake mode?

If so, that would mean it's calculating based on the stock airbox airflow. But if it shows a good gain of HP/Torque just minutes after installing the Intake isn't that just as good? If you think about it, if it's calculating based on stock airbox information yet actually gains HP after installing the intake then technically once the ECU relearns there should still be gain from the intake unless it's trying to limit it's overall power output (which is not the case).

Just curious.

 

Not at WOT. It goes to open loop and just dumps in waaay too much fuel, therefore the more air you have the more power your going to dyno.

What you said is true under non-WOT driving in closed-loop.

 

Gas
1. Lower octane = Faster burn. More power but can lead to knocking.
Higher octane = Slower burn. Less power not apt to knock. It's all in the timing. Higher octane will create more power when timing is set right due to more fuel burning in a more compressed charge.
2. Summer blend = Even slower burn. Less power due to MTBE.
Winter blend = This is the normal blend which creates more power.

Air temp.
Hotter = Bad
Cooler = Good

Intake pipe N/A or not.
Storter = Better
Longer = Bad
Two pipes of the same diameter but different lenghts the shorter one will Always get a higher cfm. And no it doesn't matter if the longer one is a larger diameter in this case because of the MAF diameter.

Power mods and ECU.
Changes made to the car will need miles on them before peak power from the change will be seen as the ECU needs to learn. ie. Timimg & fuel maps. So when dynoing a change made the same day there may or may not be much of a gain and maybe even a loss. This isn't F1, Cart or IRL here, we can't just hook up our lap tops and make these changes on the fly or in a short time between runs. Atleast not yet

Granted I'm not going into great deatail here but unless I'm way off I don't understand how more power wasn't seen here. If other people are dynoing in a gear lower than 4th they may get higher numbers but 4th IS the gear to dyno in because it is the closest to 1:1.
This is 1 of those times were longer isn't better.

 

Yes.

You guys didn't?


Don't you think it's funny how we(friggen 110+ desert) get 91-octane crap, while CA gets 93-octane.

 

91 in NorCal.

 

Way, way too early for me to answer all those. Do a few searches and you SHOULD find most of your answers.

Once I get a little more MD, I'll try and answer.

 

Search on "flame propagation" here or on the web, since others have explained it better than I can.

Summer blend has a higher octane rating due to less Ethanol. The winter blend doesn't create more power due to the Ethanol, which lowers the calorific content(energy released when ignited) and the octane rating by ~1-point. This lower caloric value will be seen/compensated by the ECU and result in decreased power and thus fuel mileage. It also takes slightly longer to raise engine temperatures and get out of cold startup enrichment, which also decreases fuel mileage.

Of course. Cooler air means more dense air, which the ECU adds more fuel and makes more power.

I'll say, depends. Definitely search on this one.

Correct if your not at WOT, ie normal driving. However, dynos are done at WOT(hopefully!), therefore the ECU goes into "open loop", which means it doesn't compensate according to sensor readings(O2 at least) and thus dumps in a FACTORY predetermined amount of fuel that's usually extremely rich(that's why you see a black puff out the exhaust). So, if you increase/decrease the air in/out of the engine you will see the results IMMEDIATELY on a dyno, to a point.

I think all the POSSIBILITIES have been already posted. Too many variables to know for sure.

 

VQ30DEK-T = KABOOM!

It depends on your temperature AND altitude, so you guys get SCREWED also.

 

I was trying not to trash the specific product that I don't believe in. To me this dyno shows it. I'm showing my points that I believe are correct, I'm so so on the fuel thing, but if I'm wrong some where I'd like it pointed out.
This topic has been beat to death with no clear winner. I just don't think CAI's are worth it power or cash. A lot of people strongly believe CAI's are the best with no proof to substantiate it.(but if I spent that much for one I'd have a hard time not defending it too ) I have yet to see a dyno that has shown one put out more HP than a HAI. And why spend the extra money for all that pipe with out putting a pump on the other end?

 

I'm not sure i got it 100% so correct me if i'm wrong. So you're saying that under dyno conditions the ECU and/or sensor readings doesn't really matter?

If that's the case, then it would be okay to do a back-back dyno run of a stock airbox and aftermarket intake then w/o having to wait several hundred miles for the ECU to relearn right?

 

Whoooah! The ECU matters and certain sensor readings(Engine speed, speed limiter, etc..) are working, HOWEVER the ECU is not triming the fuel at WOT. It probably still has some SAFETY measures built in that prevent KABOOM, but at WOT it doesn't trim/enrich fuel according to 02-sensor readings. The FACTORY programmed WOT fuel enrichment does NOT compensate for 02-sensor readings.

For the dyno at WOT, you are correct.

 

In that case maybe i should schedule for a dyno session and see what gains the Injen has over stock on the same day under similar conditions.

 

Thanks Alex,
I didn't know about the ECU going into an open loop.
Here in Ga our octane rating doesn't change through out the year, it stays 93, but in the summer they add MBTE to the blend. When I get home tonight I'll do some searhing on flame propagation and on fuel mixes. and get back. I just don't have the time at work.

 

Yeah, they don't change the "sticker" on the pumps here either. However, IF you monitor your fuel mileage strictly, you'll see what happens.

However, it can take 3-4 months before the OLD blend is fully replaced by the NEW blend in the gas station tanks. Inbetween, you'll get a mix. For example if they start the Summer blend in March/April(I think) then by June/July it should take effect. Winter blend should be in effect by December/January.

 

Ok, I'm not sure if I understand what your asking me in the beginning of this post.

As far as the dyno and HAI vs. CAI, I'd like to stay out of that. However, let me just say that a dyno is a GREAT tool for measuring power to the wheels at WOT. It does NOT however, show the effects during normal driving, especially stop and go with heat soak.

 

The Bay Area is at sea level.

VQ30DEK-T = KABOOM! => VQ32DEK-T... maybe.

 

Buy a friggen SKYLINE or SUPRA already! You can throw as much money as you want(read Jane allows! ), but it's still a 4-door Maxima.

Seriously Kev, if you bought a 350Z or better yet a G35C or EVO VIII and spent HALF the money you have on your Maxima, your car would be in SOOOOOOOO MANY magazines that you wish and should be in, but it's not because it's a Maxima.

It kills me knowing what you've done to your car and then seeing all those POS wantabee Focus, Probes, Hondas, GTP, IS300, WRX, soon to be Neon SRT-4, etc. in all the mags I buy.

VQ33DEK-T would be better!!!!!!!!!!

 

*Waiting patiently*

I'll be keeping the car for a long while... you'll understand why soon.

 

Me too. I think I'm going to have to teach the wifey to drive stick.



New ?

 

Nope... and if we were, the baby seat is NOT going in my car.

 

The EVO or the Max? [whisperingtoeveryoneelse] He's probably getting married soon that's why [/whisperingtoeveryoneelse]

 

Yeah, but that's not the reason. You guys will know soon... don't worry.

 

Yeah riiiiiight!

That's what I said. Lasted what, 2wks..

 

I think times are a better indicator of real world performance due to the whole hood open/fan issue. Perhaps you could do an acceleration from ~2000RPM in say third gear to eliminate any error from inconsistant shifting. I don't know how the new Gtech works so I don't know if that is possible. You could also try again after the ECU learns the new intake to see if that has any effect. Maybe there is sombody nearby who could lend you a Frankencar/Short ram so you could compare that too .

I would love to get a G-tech so I could compare results on mods with something other than the unreliable butt dyno (unless my car really is faster after I wash it ) Without spending $50+ a pop. I hope you can report your impressions of the new G-tech.

I did an intake temp test with my short ram setup and my temps where not as low as many people have reported, I don't know if my car is different or somebodys testing is flawed . I was thinking of either making some sort of heat shield or going with a CAI. I think at least part of the high end power loss with the PR style CAI is the limited amount of air that can get into the fender well, particularly with factory fogs, which leads me to look at the Injen.

I think it's great that a manufacture takes the time to respond to a negative thread about their product with good information.

 

Same here. Why just today I almost ordered one. I will stick with my stock set up and my K&N drop in.