Nissan called me today about the 255hp
11-20-2002, 10:26 AM
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,720
Looks like Ford pulled the same crap with the 1999 Mustang Cobras:
http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cobra_99coverup.htm
Cant wait to see how this pans out!!
http://www.bonforums.com/mustang/cobra_99coverup.htm
Cant wait to see how this pans out!!
11-20-2002, 10:35 AM
#84
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 60
Among the various reasons stated about why pursuing this is the right thing to do, this is another reply that really argues more for pursuing this in principle. Now your talking the intangible, psychological harm that results because of this issue. It's best to go all the way for the most comprehensive resolution possible IMO because once word gets out "officially", our car values will indeed tank even more.
That max will never again be seen by the competition as the pioneer sports sedan and leading price/performance sedan it is currently viewed as...or until new numbers prove otherwise. Which of course means every one and their pet will probably be gunnin' for us.
I just read the "Performance Car for Under $20K" article in Sport Compact car. They talk about how the new SRT-4 is the new leader of the pack and that the manufacturer claims 215HP@5400rpm and 245TQ@2000rpm. Their dyno results actually showed 223HP@5700rpm and 250TQ@3000rpm. At 2870 lbs, factory turbo, and aftermarket support...this little guy is starting to look like a way better performance bet than my current 02 Max.
One thing is gauranteed. I will definitely be shopping for something new next year. Since I just got the car this past May, I may as well brace myself for the financial hit. Either way, I'm looking to get out shortly...after the new house of course. The wife won't hear anything else until then.
That max will never again be seen by the competition as the pioneer sports sedan and leading price/performance sedan it is currently viewed as...or until new numbers prove otherwise. Which of course means every one and their pet will probably be gunnin' for us.
I just read the "Performance Car for Under $20K" article in Sport Compact car. They talk about how the new SRT-4 is the new leader of the pack and that the manufacturer claims 215HP@5400rpm and 245TQ@2000rpm. Their dyno results actually showed 223HP@5700rpm and 250TQ@3000rpm. At 2870 lbs, factory turbo, and aftermarket support...this little guy is starting to look like a way better performance bet than my current 02 Max.
One thing is gauranteed. I will definitely be shopping for something new next year. Since I just got the car this past May, I may as well brace myself for the financial hit. Either way, I'm looking to get out shortly...after the new house of course. The wife won't hear anything else until then.
Originally posted by rntmax02
I also was trying to decide between the Altima and Max....and the extra HP was a major factor in my decision.
Just as a point of fact my previous vehicle was a 1998 Dakota R/T which had a false claim for towing capacity. I also belonged to the Dakota group on the net. It all started out with a class action law suit in the USofA. Chrysler advertised the Dakota as the big hauler with the 5.9 litre motor.....The flyer showed it towing a boat and bragged about what it could tow. Then all of a sudden they said sorry it can only tow 2000lbs not the advertised 6700lbs. Due to preasure from owners Chrysler offered a extended warranty, $750. in Mopar parts or a 100% buyback. I got back 2 yrs of lease payments and handed back the truck. I gave the truck back due to the tarnished image which would effect the resale value as it was no longer the top in it's catagory which is what we are up against. Nissan told us it was the best we could get for our money.....was it actualy or just stated to be so they could sell the Max for more than the Altima..........
Signed ****ed In Canada
I also was trying to decide between the Altima and Max....and the extra HP was a major factor in my decision.
Just as a point of fact my previous vehicle was a 1998 Dakota R/T which had a false claim for towing capacity. I also belonged to the Dakota group on the net. It all started out with a class action law suit in the USofA. Chrysler advertised the Dakota as the big hauler with the 5.9 litre motor.....The flyer showed it towing a boat and bragged about what it could tow. Then all of a sudden they said sorry it can only tow 2000lbs not the advertised 6700lbs. Due to preasure from owners Chrysler offered a extended warranty, $750. in Mopar parts or a 100% buyback. I got back 2 yrs of lease payments and handed back the truck. I gave the truck back due to the tarnished image which would effect the resale value as it was no longer the top in it's catagory which is what we are up against. Nissan told us it was the best we could get for our money.....was it actualy or just stated to be so they could sell the Max for more than the Altima..........
Signed ****ed In Canada
11-20-2002, 11:22 AM
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 788
Problems...
1. Not every car off the production line has to meet the advertised claims. It is a numbers game.
2. You will not get anywhere with NNA unless you all start a papertrail collectively. Then, you may have a shot at a class action claim. This is the only way to get a recall issued. It is a numbers game.
3. You ALL need to take your cars to the dealer and complain about the below-average power. Bring your independent dynos with you at the time. That is the only way to document it properly.
4. In the end, it probably won't matter. Just becuase the engine produces 255HP does not mean that you, the consumer, also have documentation stating what the final FWHP will be.
GM, Hyundai, Saturn and YUGO have all had this same problem in the past. Nothing was ever done about any of their claims. Nor, has anyone done anything about the same claims Apple, INTEL and AMD have made about their products either. How many people had to die before Firestone was forced to recall their tires? Like I said, it is a numbers game!!!
ADMAN
2. You will not get anywhere with NNA unless you all start a papertrail collectively. Then, you may have a shot at a class action claim. This is the only way to get a recall issued. It is a numbers game.
3. You ALL need to take your cars to the dealer and complain about the below-average power. Bring your independent dynos with you at the time. That is the only way to document it properly.
4. In the end, it probably won't matter. Just becuase the engine produces 255HP does not mean that you, the consumer, also have documentation stating what the final FWHP will be.
GM, Hyundai, Saturn and YUGO have all had this same problem in the past. Nothing was ever done about any of their claims. Nor, has anyone done anything about the same claims Apple, INTEL and AMD have made about their products either. How many people had to die before Firestone was forced to recall their tires? Like I said, it is a numbers game!!!
ADMAN
11-20-2002, 11:26 AM
#86
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Re: Problems...
Originally posted by adman
1. Not every car of the production line has to meet the advertised claims. It is a numbers game.
2. You will not get anywhere with NNA unless you all start a papertrail collectively. Then, you may have a shot at a class action claim. This is the only way to get a recall issued.
3. You ALL need to take your cars to the dealer and complain about the below-average power. Bring your independent dynos with you at the time. That is the only way to document it properly.
4. In the end, it probably won't matter. Just becuase the engine produces 255HP does not mean that you, the consumer, also have documentation stating what the final FWHP will be.
GM, Hyundai, Saturn and YUGO have all had this same problem in the past. Nothing was ever done about any of their claims. Nor, has anyone done anything about the same claims Apple, INTEL and AMD have made about their products either. Like I said, it is a numbers game.
ADMAN
1. Not every car of the production line has to meet the advertised claims. It is a numbers game.
2. You will not get anywhere with NNA unless you all start a papertrail collectively. Then, you may have a shot at a class action claim. This is the only way to get a recall issued.
3. You ALL need to take your cars to the dealer and complain about the below-average power. Bring your independent dynos with you at the time. That is the only way to document it properly.
4. In the end, it probably won't matter. Just becuase the engine produces 255HP does not mean that you, the consumer, also have documentation stating what the final FWHP will be.
GM, Hyundai, Saturn and YUGO have all had this same problem in the past. Nothing was ever done about any of their claims. Nor, has anyone done anything about the same claims Apple, INTEL and AMD have made about their products either. Like I said, it is a numbers game.
ADMAN
#4 is also incorrect. Where have you been? Hyundai and Ford have both settled similar claims, so there's definitely a precedent to work with if this ever gets to court/litigation (which it hopefully will).
11-20-2002, 11:36 AM
#87
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
I've made a complaint to my local dealer about the HP issue. They are supposedly signing on to the .org to research it a little further.
In the mean time, I've made an appointment to get my car dyno'd as well. Since I have a PR CAI and Magnaflow Exhaust, I'd be interesting in seeing if I could get the 255 at the crank. I don't know that I've seen a modded 2002-2003 get 255 at the crank (209ish at the wheels).
Once I've gotten my dyno, I plan to complain again, but this time in writing.
Oh, and as far as the Z, once mine is broken in, it will be on the dyno as well.... and if I don't get my HP, I'm gonna sue. Even a personal suit will be better than nothing.
In the mean time, I've made an appointment to get my car dyno'd as well. Since I have a PR CAI and Magnaflow Exhaust, I'd be interesting in seeing if I could get the 255 at the crank. I don't know that I've seen a modded 2002-2003 get 255 at the crank (209ish at the wheels).
Once I've gotten my dyno, I plan to complain again, but this time in writing.
Oh, and as far as the Z, once mine is broken in, it will be on the dyno as well.... and if I don't get my HP, I'm gonna sue. Even a personal suit will be better than nothing.
11-20-2002, 11:45 AM
#88
Guest
Posts: n/a
Is 15hp enough for compensation???!
Originally posted by pjonkheer
Just give me my 15hp. Not looking for anyone to buy my car back, that just isn't realistic. However, I have a hard time seeing Nissan having the ability to even "upgrade" the engine to deliver another 15hp. Should be interesting to see what happens...
The louder we yell, the more people who hear about it, the more effective this onslaught, if you will can be...
PS - Watch the weight jokes...she might be reading this thread.
Don't wanna **** her off now do we?
Just give me my 15hp. Not looking for anyone to buy my car back, that just isn't realistic. However, I have a hard time seeing Nissan having the ability to even "upgrade" the engine to deliver another 15hp. Should be interesting to see what happens...
The louder we yell, the more people who hear about it, the more effective this onslaught, if you will can be...
PS - Watch the weight jokes...she might be reading this thread.
Don't wanna **** her off now do we?
If this gets enough wind, Nissan is better off with recall cuz not everyone who has the 2k2 maxima is going to go in for the extra 15hp, and Nissan wont have to worry about the 2k2 maximas that have been wracked already. It shouldn't be that expensive, should it? hope it is cheaper that the lawyer's fee for Nissan if they go to court or whatever.
11-20-2002, 11:46 AM
#89
Originally posted by studman
I've made a complaint to my local dealer about the HP issue. They are supposedly signing on to the .org to research it a little further.
In the mean time, I've made an appointment to get my car dyno'd as well. Since I have a PR CAI and Magnaflow Exhaust, I'd be interesting in seeing if I could get the 255 at the crank. I don't know that I've seen a modded 2002-2003 get 255 at the crank (209ish at the wheels).
Once I've gotten my dyno, I plan to complain again, but this time in writing.
Oh, and as far as the Z, once mine is broken in, it will be on the dyno as well.... and if I don't get my HP, I'm gonna sue. Even a personal suit will be better than nothing.
I've made a complaint to my local dealer about the HP issue. They are supposedly signing on to the .org to research it a little further.
In the mean time, I've made an appointment to get my car dyno'd as well. Since I have a PR CAI and Magnaflow Exhaust, I'd be interesting in seeing if I could get the 255 at the crank. I don't know that I've seen a modded 2002-2003 get 255 at the crank (209ish at the wheels).
Once I've gotten my dyno, I plan to complain again, but this time in writing.
Oh, and as far as the Z, once mine is broken in, it will be on the dyno as well.... and if I don't get my HP, I'm gonna sue. Even a personal suit will be better than nothing.
and adman i have yet to see one dyno come close to what the hp numbers should be and other manufactures have admited to hp numbers that were wrong and did something about this, if your gonna say NAY so it somewhere else.
11-20-2002, 11:51 AM
#91
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Thought? If someone files a personal suit and loses. That might set a precedent for all future lawsuits? Something to think about. So if you sue individually, you had better win!
Thought? If someone files a personal suit and loses. That might set a precedent for all future lawsuits? Something to think about. So if you sue individually, you had better win!
11-20-2002, 11:59 AM
#93
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Originally posted by PoweredbyNissan
Maybe Nissan will replace our transimission so that drivetrain loss is not that great.........
Maybe Nissan will replace our transimission so that drivetrain loss is not that great.........
11-20-2002, 12:06 PM
#94
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by vito1281
I think realistically speaking, IF there's ANY settlement on Nissan's part, they will most likely follow Hyundai's example and just provide some extended warranties, which would be the cheapest and most efficient way for THEM to rectify the situation. I, personally, would just like the Maxima to have true 255 HP, no need for additional "punitive damages".
I think realistically speaking, IF there's ANY settlement on Nissan's part, they will most likely follow Hyundai's example and just provide some extended warranties, which would be the cheapest and most efficient way for THEM to rectify the situation. I, personally, would just like the Maxima to have true 255 HP, no need for additional "punitive damages".
11-20-2002, 12:10 PM
#95
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5
Being an owner of a 2k Maxima SE I would like to comment my experience with my Maxima. I am currently having problems with ignition coil. My car is 2600 miles over basic warranty. I've been read a lot of ignition coil problems with the Maxima from years (94-present). Nissan should use better ignition coil system with a life of 60k miles. Damn, I have to replace coils at 38k and plugs at 60k.
I don't think my next car will be a Nissan or Infiniti.
I hope Nissan will fix your problems.
I don't think my next car will be a Nissan or Infiniti.
I hope Nissan will fix your problems.
11-20-2002, 12:12 PM
#96
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Originally posted by PoweredbyNissan
Extended Warranties????!! that doesn't even solve the problem. There is no way our lawyer is going to settle for that. No way we will even ask for that kind of settlement. What percentage of people even keept their maximas for more than 3 yrs.? Extended warranty does not benefit us at all, not to mention the horrible service experience .org memebers have experienced at the dealerships.
Extended Warranties????!! that doesn't even solve the problem. There is no way our lawyer is going to settle for that. No way we will even ask for that kind of settlement. What percentage of people even keept their maximas for more than 3 yrs.? Extended warranty does not benefit us at all, not to mention the horrible service experience .org memebers have experienced at the dealerships.
Again, before anyone starts flaming me, I'm not saying that this is what I think is the correct solution, this is just my opinion on what Nissan will choose to do (granted that they even own up to their BS).
11-20-2002, 12:31 PM
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 686
Originally posted by CHAZMAX
Now I didn't say that the ONLY reason why I made my decision was the 15 hp. Of course not. However, like many others, it was DEFINATELY a deciding factor. I originally was looking to buy an Altima (or Acura RSX type S), and one of the determining factor's for buying the Max was the extra power. (The PERCIEVED extra power). Again... would the TRUTH have made a difference? Absolutely.
Now I didn't say that the ONLY reason why I made my decision was the 15 hp. Of course not. However, like many others, it was DEFINATELY a deciding factor. I originally was looking to buy an Altima (or Acura RSX type S), and one of the determining factor's for buying the Max was the extra power. (The PERCIEVED extra power). Again... would the TRUTH have made a difference? Absolutely.
I was in the same situation. I was initially very interested in the Altima, but seeing the Maxima being only slightly more expensive and having 15 more horses I chose the Maxima. Not the only reason, but definitely the deciding factor.
11-20-2002, 12:39 PM
#98
Absolutely corrrect. Nissan will just offer some BS ext warranties or extra services free because it's cheap for them to do. Hell the warranty thing is even better because they will only pay out if there is a warranty issue(which we all know Nissan will try to deny anyway).
Right? no. What Nissan will try to pull as a settlement? Absolutely. You have to accept it? No. Will it be the best you can do? Maybe.
Right? no. What Nissan will try to pull as a settlement? Absolutely. You have to accept it? No. Will it be the best you can do? Maybe.
Originally posted by vito1281
I never said that it's the RIGHT settlement or what we are ASKING for. I'm just saying that this is what NISSAN will want to do since they will point at Hyundai and say "Well, they rectified the situation by giving out extended warranties, so we can do the same..." Nissan is out to make money, or in this case, minimize their expenses/cost. There's no way in your right mind that you think Nissan will think of YOU when they come up with a solution. They will do whatever is best for THEM--bottom line!
Again, before anyone starts flaming me, I'm not saying that this is what I think is the correct solution, this is just my opinion on what Nissan will choose to do (granted that they even own up to their BS).
I never said that it's the RIGHT settlement or what we are ASKING for. I'm just saying that this is what NISSAN will want to do since they will point at Hyundai and say "Well, they rectified the situation by giving out extended warranties, so we can do the same..." Nissan is out to make money, or in this case, minimize their expenses/cost. There's no way in your right mind that you think Nissan will think of YOU when they come up with a solution. They will do whatever is best for THEM--bottom line!
Again, before anyone starts flaming me, I'm not saying that this is what I think is the correct solution, this is just my opinion on what Nissan will choose to do (granted that they even own up to their BS).
11-20-2002, 12:41 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 686
Originally posted by Lumbee799
The 15 extra hp between the Altima and Maxima was a big part of the decision on my purchase.
Nissan makes two high performance 4 door sports cars. One car has a nice new modern exterior with a mediocre interior. The other car exterior is not as attractive but the design and construction of the interior makes up for it. Both vehicles are about the same size and weight, both offer similar features, and both are approximately the same price. Now at this point we really have a 50/50 split as to which is the better car. But if you were told one was faster, more powerful, and quicker than the other which would you choose?
The 15 extra hp between the Altima and Maxima was a big part of the decision on my purchase.
Nissan makes two high performance 4 door sports cars. One car has a nice new modern exterior with a mediocre interior. The other car exterior is not as attractive but the design and construction of the interior makes up for it. Both vehicles are about the same size and weight, both offer similar features, and both are approximately the same price. Now at this point we really have a 50/50 split as to which is the better car. But if you were told one was faster, more powerful, and quicker than the other which would you choose?
11-20-2002, 12:44 PM
#100
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Thought? If someone files a personal suit and loses. That might set a precedent for all future lawsuits? Something to think about. So if you sue individually, you had better win!
Thought? If someone files a personal suit and loses. That might set a precedent for all future lawsuits? Something to think about. So if you sue individually, you had better win!
also being that i am one of the lead reps for us in the class action law suit i will push the lawyer to NOT to accept an extended warranty hyundia was able to get awawy with that because they didn't sell their cars based on hp but nissan did.
11-20-2002, 12:55 PM
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by dmbmaxima2k2
that's a VERY VERY good pooint jeff, everyone please do not go out on your own we hve a lawyer involved and he's gathering information and we are moving along. please contact me if you have anything you want to add and i will contact him and make sure all the information we have gets accoutned for. please don't go out on your own on this, together it's gonna be tought enough to get somewhere but alone it's gonna be almost impossible.
also being that i am one of the lead reps for us in the class action law suit i will push the lawyer to NOT to accept an extended warranty hyundia was able to get awawy with that because they didn't sell their cars based on hp but nissan did.
that's a VERY VERY good pooint jeff, everyone please do not go out on your own we hve a lawyer involved and he's gathering information and we are moving along. please contact me if you have anything you want to add and i will contact him and make sure all the information we have gets accoutned for. please don't go out on your own on this, together it's gonna be tought enough to get somewhere but alone it's gonna be almost impossible.
also being that i am one of the lead reps for us in the class action law suit i will push the lawyer to NOT to accept an extended warranty hyundia was able to get awawy with that because they didn't sell their cars based on hp but nissan did.
11-20-2002, 02:08 PM
#102
Originally posted by dmbmaxima2k2
i will push the lawyer to NOT to accept an extended warranty hyundia was able to get awawy with that because they didn't sell their cars based on hp but nissan did.
i will push the lawyer to NOT to accept an extended warranty hyundia was able to get awawy with that because they didn't sell their cars based on hp but nissan did.
nissan owners are definitely not the same.
11-20-2002, 02:23 PM
#103
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 612
Something has to be done. The 15HP was the main factor why I chose the Maxima over Altima. I was shopping for Altima at first, and looks wise honestly I liked the Altima better at first, but the 15 ponies is what made my decision on purchasing a Maxima. Im pi$$ed now since I am driving a more expensive, higher class car and it has the same HP as the damn Altima.
11-20-2002, 02:34 PM
#104
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 92
My 2000 Maxima was 160.4 stock. That's a 28% loss. Nissan would have to write one big check.
Originally posted by Larry
Based on an 18% drive train loss with my 2K2 auto, Nissan owes me $1499.87.
I paid $20,900 for 255 fly wheel hp. I got 236.7 fly wheel hp (194.1 front wheel hp/.82) to calculate flywheel hp. That's 18.3 hp shy of what they promised me. $20,900/255 = $81.96/hp x 18.3 = $1499.87.
Nissan, send me my money!
Based on an 18% drive train loss with my 2K2 auto, Nissan owes me $1499.87.
I paid $20,900 for 255 fly wheel hp. I got 236.7 fly wheel hp (194.1 front wheel hp/.82) to calculate flywheel hp. That's 18.3 hp shy of what they promised me. $20,900/255 = $81.96/hp x 18.3 = $1499.87.
Nissan, send me my money!
11-20-2002, 03:24 PM
#105
Originally posted by Larry
Based on an 18% drive train loss with my 2K2 auto, Nissan owes me $1499.87.
I paid $20,900 for 255 fly wheel hp. I got 236.7 fly wheel hp (194.1 front wheel hp/.82) to calculate flywheel hp. That's 18.3 hp shy of what they promised me. $20,900/255 = $81.96/hp x 18.3 = $1499.87.
Nissan, send me my money!
Based on an 18% drive train loss with my 2K2 auto, Nissan owes me $1499.87.
I paid $20,900 for 255 fly wheel hp. I got 236.7 fly wheel hp (194.1 front wheel hp/.82) to calculate flywheel hp. That's 18.3 hp shy of what they promised me. $20,900/255 = $81.96/hp x 18.3 = $1499.87.
Nissan, send me my money!
Dixit
11-20-2002, 03:46 PM
#106
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 35
If Nissan lets a car out of the factory with a known 25% drivetrain loss they are fools. This means that the car pollutes more than it should, gets far worse gas mileage than it should, will tear up drivetrain parts quicker than a similar car.
The best way to determine this is to pull an engine out and engine dyno it.
The best way to determine this is to pull an engine out and engine dyno it.
11-20-2002, 03:54 PM
#107
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 17
I have only owned my Maxima (an '02) for a month. I love the car, and my sevice from the dealer has been outstanding. I have to admit that coming from a '94 Mustang that had 225 hp, I was somewhat disappointed by the lack of ***** comparing my Maxima to the Mustang. I expected alot more out of 30hp more in the Maxima and knew from the start it was over-rated. I too looked at the 3.5 Altima and the 15hp did sway me. I want my 15hp, and I want it now. I could have bought another Stang but I wanted the reliability that goes with the Nissan name. Sign me just a bit disappointed......
11-20-2002, 05:17 PM
#108
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Aint no way the auto has only a 18% parasitic loss. It is going to be more near 25%. If you do that, your Flywheel HP is more accurate to 255hp.
Dixit
Aint no way the auto has only a 18% parasitic loss. It is going to be more near 25%. If you do that, your Flywheel HP is more accurate to 255hp.
Dixit
dixit
i don't think the losses are that high esp on a FWD auto, i was reading an article about losses and most of it is just friction and it said for a drivetrain to eat up that much power it fluid would basically boil, something about how much power, 25% of 255 is like 60+hp and the watts that would generate, i don't remember specifics but it sounded like a good explanation when i read it the other day. i'll look for the article again. and like mkoebra95 said it would eat through drivetrain parts and pollute a lot.
-steve
11-20-2002, 05:45 PM
#109
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 780
Originally posted by dmbmaxima2k2
dixit
i don't think the losses are that high esp on a FWD auto,
-steve
dixit
i don't think the losses are that high esp on a FWD auto,
-steve
Where is the Altima engine built?? Where is the Maxima engine built? When does the 3.5l engine become "Maxima" vs "Altima"? Is it when it's bolted to the frame of said car? Can we see Nissan's dyno #'s??? I'd like to see the difference between the two cars engines out of the car....
25% loss is insane. show me another vehicle that loses that much.
This still doesn't account for why our cars are dynoing at the same HP as the 240hp Altima, unless the altima is underrated, which still does not change the fact that we were mislead into buying a more expensive car (flagship).
11-20-2002, 05:54 PM
#110
Originally posted by DrVolkl
There is tons of speculation here. First, lets forget about what Nissan will or won't do for now. Focus on proving our point.
Where is the Altima engine built?? Where is the Maxima engine built? When does the 3.5l engine become "Maxima" vs "Altima"? Is it when it's bolted to the frame of said car? Can we see Nissan's dyno #'s??? I'd like to see the difference between the two cars engines out of the car....
25% loss is insane. show me another vehicle that loses that much.
This still doesn't account for why our cars are dynoing at the same HP as the 240hp Altima, unless the altima is underrated, which still does not change the fact that we were mislead into buying a more expensive car (flagship).
There is tons of speculation here. First, lets forget about what Nissan will or won't do for now. Focus on proving our point.
Where is the Altima engine built?? Where is the Maxima engine built? When does the 3.5l engine become "Maxima" vs "Altima"? Is it when it's bolted to the frame of said car? Can we see Nissan's dyno #'s??? I'd like to see the difference between the two cars engines out of the car....
25% loss is insane. show me another vehicle that loses that much.
This still doesn't account for why our cars are dynoing at the same HP as the 240hp Altima, unless the altima is underrated, which still does not change the fact that we were mislead into buying a more expensive car (flagship).
Look at the dyno forum. Im not flaming, but its been a proven fact on the board here that most people are getting 22-25% parasitic loss on a AUTO. 15% on a manual. If you are confident the parasitic loss should be only 18% on a auto, then why do I not see an auto pushing 200+ hp for a 2k-2k1 car? This is assuming that lets say my engine was off and something is wrong for why I only got 184whp which at 18% loss is 223hp.
Dixit
11-20-2002, 06:00 PM
#111
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 92
How about a whopping 28% loss with the automatic 2000 Maxima? That's higher than it should be. Nissan is definitely not VW, who underrates their cars. I remember some of the older 1.8's were dyno'ing something like 170 HP to the wheels.
Originally posted by dmbmaxima2k2
dixit
i don't think the losses are that high esp on a FWD auto, i was reading an article about losses and most of it is just friction and it said for a drivetrain to eat up that much power it fluid would basically boil, something about how much power, 25% of 255 is like 60+hp and the watts that would generate, i don't remember specifics but it sounded like a good explanation when i read it the other day. i'll look for the article again. and like mkoebra95 said it would eat through drivetrain parts and pollute a lot.
-steve
dixit
i don't think the losses are that high esp on a FWD auto, i was reading an article about losses and most of it is just friction and it said for a drivetrain to eat up that much power it fluid would basically boil, something about how much power, 25% of 255 is like 60+hp and the watts that would generate, i don't remember specifics but it sounded like a good explanation when i read it the other day. i'll look for the article again. and like mkoebra95 said it would eat through drivetrain parts and pollute a lot.
-steve
11-20-2002, 06:11 PM
#112
Originally posted by AltyPaul
How about a whopping 28% loss with the automatic 2000 Maxima? That's higher than it should be. Nissan is definitely not VW, who underrates their cars. I remember some of the older 1.8's were dyno'ing something like 170 HP to the wheels.
How about a whopping 28% loss with the automatic 2000 Maxima? That's higher than it should be. Nissan is definitely not VW, who underrates their cars. I remember some of the older 1.8's were dyno'ing something like 170 HP to the wheels.
Dixit
11-20-2002, 06:45 PM
#113
Guest
Posts: n/a
i've been reading this thread, and im glad we are not pushing for an extended warrantee. nissan dealers suck, and anyone who has a modded car is not going to get anything covered unless they remove their stuff. There are no good dealers by me, so im stuck. I want my 15 damn HP!!!!
I want my 15 damn HP!!!!
11-20-2002, 07:47 PM
#115
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 25
Predictable outcome
First of all I would like to state that I myself am a victim of this
potential misadvertising and decided to by a 03 Max over the Alty.
I feel pis_sed off and would like nothing better than to screw Nissan over BUT......
In all my years of dealing with NISSAN here is what will happen:
Nissan will issue a letter to all 2K2-3 Maxima owners stating that they have recently heard about customers concerns related to our cars performing equally to similarily equipped Altimas. They will state
"We have investigated this issue and have found that the rated horsepower of 255 on all 2k2-3 Maximas is deemed to be correct. Furthermore the drivetrain loss of 25%-30% falls with the design specifications for the tranny installed in these vehicles. We have also discovered that a gross error was made during the production testing of all Altima vehicles and have determined the
rated horsepower to be underrated. We apologize for any distress this issue maybe have caused the customer and feel that Nissan (US and Canada) Corp is not liable for any form of compensation to the customer"
Lets just face it ppl we all know that the above or something similiar is going to be the outcome to this situation. For a company that could barely survive five years back, do you think they are actually going to dish out $$$ to fix this problem. Fixing a problem like this would probably bring Nissan Motor Company closer to bankruptcy than they were in 97-98.
Just a thought ... This has to also effect the Cefiro in Japan. By far that has to be larger market than all of North America. Someone should post a similar thread on Japanese Maxima board.
potential misadvertising and decided to by a 03 Max over the Alty.
I feel pis_sed off and would like nothing better than to screw Nissan over BUT......
In all my years of dealing with NISSAN here is what will happen:
Nissan will issue a letter to all 2K2-3 Maxima owners stating that they have recently heard about customers concerns related to our cars performing equally to similarily equipped Altimas. They will state
"We have investigated this issue and have found that the rated horsepower of 255 on all 2k2-3 Maximas is deemed to be correct. Furthermore the drivetrain loss of 25%-30% falls with the design specifications for the tranny installed in these vehicles. We have also discovered that a gross error was made during the production testing of all Altima vehicles and have determined the
rated horsepower to be underrated. We apologize for any distress this issue maybe have caused the customer and feel that Nissan (US and Canada) Corp is not liable for any form of compensation to the customer"
Lets just face it ppl we all know that the above or something similiar is going to be the outcome to this situation. For a company that could barely survive five years back, do you think they are actually going to dish out $$$ to fix this problem. Fixing a problem like this would probably bring Nissan Motor Company closer to bankruptcy than they were in 97-98.
Just a thought ... This has to also effect the Cefiro in Japan. By far that has to be larger market than all of North America. Someone should post a similar thread on Japanese Maxima board.
11-20-2002, 07:51 PM
#116
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,909
Originally posted by AltyPaul
How about a whopping 28% loss with the automatic 2000 Maxima? That's higher than it should be. Nissan is definitely not VW, who underrates their cars. I remember some of the older 1.8's were dyno'ing something like 170 HP to the wheels.
How about a whopping 28% loss with the automatic 2000 Maxima? That's higher than it should be. Nissan is definitely not VW, who underrates their cars. I remember some of the older 1.8's were dyno'ing something like 170 HP to the wheels.
GM has happy customers by underrating there LS1s.
11-20-2002, 08:16 PM
#117
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14
Re: Predictable outcome
Originally posted by cdnmaxima
Nissan will issue a letter to all 2K2-3 Maxima owners stating that they have recently heard about customers concerns related to our cars performing equally to similarily equipped Altimas. They will state
"We have investigated this issue and have found that the rated horsepower of 255 on all 2k2-3 Maximas is deemed to be correct. Furthermore the drivetrain loss of 25%-30% falls with the design specifications for the tranny installed in these vehicles. We have also discovered that a gross error was made during the production testing of all Altima vehicles and have determined the
rated horsepower to be underrated. We apologize for any distress this issue maybe have caused the customer and feel that Nissan (US and Canada) Corp is not liable for any form of compensation to the customer"
Lets just face it ppl we all know that the above or something similiar is going to be the outcome to this situation.
Nissan will issue a letter to all 2K2-3 Maxima owners stating that they have recently heard about customers concerns related to our cars performing equally to similarily equipped Altimas. They will state
"We have investigated this issue and have found that the rated horsepower of 255 on all 2k2-3 Maximas is deemed to be correct. Furthermore the drivetrain loss of 25%-30% falls with the design specifications for the tranny installed in these vehicles. We have also discovered that a gross error was made during the production testing of all Altima vehicles and have determined the
rated horsepower to be underrated. We apologize for any distress this issue maybe have caused the customer and feel that Nissan (US and Canada) Corp is not liable for any form of compensation to the customer"
Lets just face it ppl we all know that the above or something similiar is going to be the outcome to this situation.
The reason why I will sue is "Misleading" = "Cheating", not 100% because Altima has the same HP.
2nd,
255 HP will become a number Nissan has to prove in front of the court house and a lot of Car experts.
3rd
"Bankruptcy" doesn't sound like a good reason for a company to lie.
LYL797
11-20-2002, 08:17 PM
#118
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Thats what i mean, i know for a fact it is between 22-28% depending on car.
Dixit
Thats what i mean, i know for a fact it is between 22-28% depending on car.
Dixit
stock run in 3rd gear = 162.86HP. that's a ~28% loss through the drivetrain.
modded (intake & y-pipe) run in 2nd gear = 185.62HP. assuming an 18% loss for the autotragic, 186HP is what i should have been throwing down stock.
either Nissan automatic transmissions are very inefficient or 18% loss from an autotragic is asking too much.
what people need to do is rip an engine out of a 2000-2001 and a 2002-2003 and do an engine dyno on it...only then will we all find out what these engines truly make
11-20-2002, 08:21 PM
#119
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 120
Re: Predictable outcome
Originally posted by cdnmaxima
First of all I would like to state that I myself am a victim of this
potential misadvertising and decided to by a 03 Max over the Alty.
I feel pis_sed off and would like nothing better than to screw Nissan over BUT......
In all my years of dealing with NISSAN here is what will happen:
Nissan will issue a letter to all 2K2-3 Maxima owners stating that they have recently heard about customers concerns related to our cars performing equally to similarily equipped Altimas. They will state
"We have investigated this issue and have found that the rated horsepower of 255 on all 2k2-3 Maximas is deemed to be correct. Furthermore the drivetrain loss of 25%-30% falls with the design specifications for the tranny installed in these vehicles. We have also discovered that a gross error was made during the production testing of all Altima vehicles and have determined the
rated horsepower to be underrated. We apologize for any distress this issue maybe have caused the customer and feel that Nissan (US and Canada) Corp is not liable for any form of compensation to the customer"
Lets just face it ppl we all know that the above or something similiar is going to be the outcome to this situation. For a company that could barely survive five years back, do you think they are actually going to dish out $$$ to fix this problem. Fixing a problem like this would probably bring Nissan Motor Company closer to bankruptcy than they were in 97-98.
Just a thought ... This has to also effect the Cefiro in Japan. By far that has to be larger market than all of North America. Someone should post a similar thread on Japanese Maxima board.
First of all I would like to state that I myself am a victim of this
potential misadvertising and decided to by a 03 Max over the Alty.
I feel pis_sed off and would like nothing better than to screw Nissan over BUT......
In all my years of dealing with NISSAN here is what will happen:
Nissan will issue a letter to all 2K2-3 Maxima owners stating that they have recently heard about customers concerns related to our cars performing equally to similarily equipped Altimas. They will state
"We have investigated this issue and have found that the rated horsepower of 255 on all 2k2-3 Maximas is deemed to be correct. Furthermore the drivetrain loss of 25%-30% falls with the design specifications for the tranny installed in these vehicles. We have also discovered that a gross error was made during the production testing of all Altima vehicles and have determined the
rated horsepower to be underrated. We apologize for any distress this issue maybe have caused the customer and feel that Nissan (US and Canada) Corp is not liable for any form of compensation to the customer"
Lets just face it ppl we all know that the above or something similiar is going to be the outcome to this situation. For a company that could barely survive five years back, do you think they are actually going to dish out $$$ to fix this problem. Fixing a problem like this would probably bring Nissan Motor Company closer to bankruptcy than they were in 97-98.
Just a thought ... This has to also effect the Cefiro in Japan. By far that has to be larger market than all of North America. Someone should post a similar thread on Japanese Maxima board.
That sounds like something that could definitely happen. Let's hope the outcome will be better than that. These guys have put in alot of effort into making something happen here. Keep the faith.
11-20-2002, 08:32 PM
#120
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think 18% drivetrain loss is somewhat unrealistic for an automatic. Going from 4th gen dynos, 5th gens, Accord V6's, even some friends' Avengers, I would say 20-25% is more realistic. We also all know that the Nissan auto tranny is not exactly a stellar performer. I would agree that the 2k2's are getting screwed on the hp, but I don't see y'all getting much out of it. Nissan service is damned near the worst in the business, and enough of us have spent the time at dealerships to prove it. If they have a grotesquely hard time doing a simple TSB or would try to pass off a FSTB as causing a tranny failure (I **** you not...), I wouldn't see them going too far over underrated hp. I would guess that you'll see the warranty extension since that's really the only remotely feasible way out for them. In any case, I still think it should be pursued by those concerned at the very least out of principle, and wish you all the best.