Nissan called me today about the 255hp
11-19-2002, 03:22 PM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 190
Originally posted by Lumbee799
The 15 extra hp between the Altima and Maxima was a big part of the decision on my purchase.
Nissan makes two high performance 4 door sports cars. One car has a nice new modern exterior with a mediocre interior. The other car exterior is not as attractive but the design and construction of the interior makes up for it. Both vehicles are about the same size and weight, both offer similar features, and both are approximately the same price. Now at this point we really have a 50/50 split as to which is the better car. But if you were told one was faster, more powerful, and quicker than the other which would you choose?
The 15 extra hp between the Altima and Maxima was a big part of the decision on my purchase.
Nissan makes two high performance 4 door sports cars. One car has a nice new modern exterior with a mediocre interior. The other car exterior is not as attractive but the design and construction of the interior makes up for it. Both vehicles are about the same size and weight, both offer similar features, and both are approximately the same price. Now at this point we really have a 50/50 split as to which is the better car. But if you were told one was faster, more powerful, and quicker than the other which would you choose?
I am not dissatisfied with my car. I am getting tired of the silly comments from my friends about how my car isn't what it was cracked up to be though...
11-19-2002, 03:29 PM
#42
Altima 240hp vs Maxima 255hp. You make the decision.....I did! It truly was a determining factor. I started out wanting to get the Altima 3.5. All i kept thinking was how both cars compared almost identical except for the Maxima's extra HP! So the Maxima won! I do feel cheated and hope Nissan fixes there mistake.
11-19-2002, 04:01 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 350
I've been watching this topic for the last week or so with some interest. Now that Nissan has taken some interest, I thought I'd through my 2 cents in.
As the owner of a 2k2 6-spd Max and 2K 5 spd Max, I'm pretty much sick and tired of Nissan "tweaking" the numbers simply for the purposes of product placement and marketing. Just post the real numbers and let the cars sell themselves. Now that the Z and G35 are hitting the roads, I Nissan has seriously over-rated these cars I think they are looking at a big backlash.
As for the argument that "you're getting more torque than advertised, so don't complain", I think this is bull. It is completely different to underate a product because people who buy it make the decision to buy even with the lower numbers.
The opposite of this, which Nissan seems to have no problem doing, is to promise more than what the car actually delivers. People like me then make the decision to purchase the vehicle based on the "tweaked" numbers and get short-changed.
As an example, you buy a ladder saying it can only support 150 lbs, but you weight 175 lbs. You get on the ladder and it doesn't break. Obviously, some engineer has underated the ladder so shmucks like yoiu won't kill themself. Obviously, nobody's going to sue for this.
Then you buy a ladder that says it can handle 175 lbs, you get on it, and you're wife finds you dead on the lawn, screaming that she should of never made you clean out the gutters.
Nissan should do the right things and get our cars up to the advertised HP, or simply tell us the Altima's are completely under-rated.
As the owner of a 2k2 6-spd Max and 2K 5 spd Max, I'm pretty much sick and tired of Nissan "tweaking" the numbers simply for the purposes of product placement and marketing. Just post the real numbers and let the cars sell themselves. Now that the Z and G35 are hitting the roads, I Nissan has seriously over-rated these cars I think they are looking at a big backlash.
As for the argument that "you're getting more torque than advertised, so don't complain", I think this is bull. It is completely different to underate a product because people who buy it make the decision to buy even with the lower numbers.
The opposite of this, which Nissan seems to have no problem doing, is to promise more than what the car actually delivers. People like me then make the decision to purchase the vehicle based on the "tweaked" numbers and get short-changed.
As an example, you buy a ladder saying it can only support 150 lbs, but you weight 175 lbs. You get on the ladder and it doesn't break. Obviously, some engineer has underated the ladder so shmucks like yoiu won't kill themself. Obviously, nobody's going to sue for this.
Then you buy a ladder that says it can handle 175 lbs, you get on it, and you're wife finds you dead on the lawn, screaming that she should of never made you clean out the gutters.
Nissan should do the right things and get our cars up to the advertised HP, or simply tell us the Altima's are completely under-rated.
11-19-2002, 05:06 PM
#44
Originally posted by MaxSE03
Altima 240hp vs Maxima 255hp. You make the decision.....I did! It truly was a determining factor. I started out wanting to get the Altima 3.5. All i kept thinking was how both cars compared almost identical except for the Maxima's extra HP! So the Maxima won! I do feel cheated and hope Nissan fixes there mistake.
Altima 240hp vs Maxima 255hp. You make the decision.....I did! It truly was a determining factor. I started out wanting to get the Altima 3.5. All i kept thinking was how both cars compared almost identical except for the Maxima's extra HP! So the Maxima won! I do feel cheated and hope Nissan fixes there mistake.
11-19-2002, 05:09 PM
#45
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 60
Where's the press???
My question would be: Where is are the write ups on this?
If the org is now connecting the dots beyond the Maxima's claimed HP with other dyno results aren't others starting to dialogue on these issues also?
I would like to know exactly what the Stillen folks reaction was as the numbers for the Z came up from the Dyno runs. If the crowd was deflated by this, aren't these cats who do the performance evals noticing this as well?
Or is Stillen's new SC for the Z (and Alty and Max possibly as well), there solution?
A modded Alty which, what, could only have had intake and exhaust in the way of go fast parts (aside from suspension parts, kits, wheels, etc) posted better than the Z and as someone mentioned earlier, the Max is running with the Z--Someone besides the org has got to be writing this up?
I Haven't monitored any Z forums in about a month so I'm not aware of what our Z brethren are saying about this but if this is wholesale across the board that could mean BIG backlash and then what happens to Nissan Revival plan then?
Revival becomes possibly survival it would seem.
Is it possible that Nissan would risk it all by inflating the numbers for the sake of performance/price marketing? Or are we looking at poor drivetrain engineering across most of the product line?
Now everyone is REALLY scrutinizing the engineering of different HP figures accross so many vehicles sharing the shame engine. I keep hearing and reading about variable intakes, purpose built exhausts, blah, blah, blah creating these differences which seems to be a mystery to most as to how they are actually doing it. Whatever they are doing is appears they aren't doing it very well.
With recent events here now, I guess Nissan should prepare to give us clear explanations because I don't see this just going away. There is way too much momentum picking up now.
...not to mention Stillen couldn't even put a Max on the dyno along with the others. Isn't it bad enough we had no presence at SEMA/NISMO.
I know, I know, we've talked about this one before...
If the org is now connecting the dots beyond the Maxima's claimed HP with other dyno results aren't others starting to dialogue on these issues also?
I would like to know exactly what the Stillen folks reaction was as the numbers for the Z came up from the Dyno runs. If the crowd was deflated by this, aren't these cats who do the performance evals noticing this as well?
Or is Stillen's new SC for the Z (and Alty and Max possibly as well), there solution?
A modded Alty which, what, could only have had intake and exhaust in the way of go fast parts (aside from suspension parts, kits, wheels, etc) posted better than the Z and as someone mentioned earlier, the Max is running with the Z--Someone besides the org has got to be writing this up?
I Haven't monitored any Z forums in about a month so I'm not aware of what our Z brethren are saying about this but if this is wholesale across the board that could mean BIG backlash and then what happens to Nissan Revival plan then?
Revival becomes possibly survival it would seem.
Is it possible that Nissan would risk it all by inflating the numbers for the sake of performance/price marketing? Or are we looking at poor drivetrain engineering across most of the product line?
Now everyone is REALLY scrutinizing the engineering of different HP figures accross so many vehicles sharing the shame engine. I keep hearing and reading about variable intakes, purpose built exhausts, blah, blah, blah creating these differences which seems to be a mystery to most as to how they are actually doing it. Whatever they are doing is appears they aren't doing it very well.
With recent events here now, I guess Nissan should prepare to give us clear explanations because I don't see this just going away. There is way too much momentum picking up now.
...not to mention Stillen couldn't even put a Max on the dyno along with the others. Isn't it bad enough we had no presence at SEMA/NISMO.
I know, I know, we've talked about this one before...
Originally posted by Larrio
MOST nissan engines are overrated. I was in person to watch a modded sentra spec V, track edition Z, and a modded 3.5 5spd altima dyno at stillen day last month.
modded spec V: 125-130 hp
STOCK 350Z: 225-230 hp
Modded Altima: 228-235 hp
I forgot the exact numbers in the 3 runs, but the ones posted are pretty close. I know for a FACT that the modded alty put down more than the Z
btw... all were manual transmission
MOST nissan engines are overrated. I was in person to watch a modded sentra spec V, track edition Z, and a modded 3.5 5spd altima dyno at stillen day last month.
modded spec V: 125-130 hp
STOCK 350Z: 225-230 hp
Modded Altima: 228-235 hp
I forgot the exact numbers in the 3 runs, but the ones posted are pretty close. I know for a FACT that the modded alty put down more than the Z
btw... all were manual transmission
11-19-2002, 06:11 PM
#48
Re: Max vs. alti
Originally posted by mjk
the new altima and maxima have different fuel injection systems
the new altima and maxima have different fuel injection systems
11-19-2002, 06:30 PM
#49
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 20
Here in Canada, Hyundai is currently facing the same issues with some of their models having lower hp than what was advertised. Their solution is to offer the affected owners a choice of extended warranty packages. Thought this is an interesting piece of info for those of you who are thinking about what companies may do in these situations.
11-19-2002, 06:48 PM
#51
This is an issue that really should not be ignored. If you are going to advertise something, make it a legit number. How many adds for the Maxima have you see where the 255hp # is not right in your face? They based this car on that number and now we are seeing that the number may not be what it was supposed to be. IF that is the case, we are all going to feel some sort of buyers remorse. Imagine you bought a cell phone and it was missing just 15 of the 255 pieces inside of it...wouldn't you be upset?
11-19-2002, 06:50 PM
#52
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 369
Based on an 18% drive train loss with my 2K2 auto, Nissan owes me $1499.87.
I paid $20,900 for 255 fly wheel hp. I got 236.7 fly wheel hp (194.1 front wheel hp/.82) to calculate flywheel hp. That's 18.3 hp shy of what they promised me. $20,900/255 = $81.96/hp x 18.3 = $1499.87.
Nissan, send me my money!
I paid $20,900 for 255 fly wheel hp. I got 236.7 fly wheel hp (194.1 front wheel hp/.82) to calculate flywheel hp. That's 18.3 hp shy of what they promised me. $20,900/255 = $81.96/hp x 18.3 = $1499.87.
Nissan, send me my money!
11-19-2002, 07:04 PM
#53
Originally posted by Larry
Based on an 18% drive train loss with my 2K2 auto, Nissan owes me $1499.87.
I paid $20,900 for 255 fwhp. I got 236.7 fwhp (194.1 fwh/.82) to calculate flywheel hp. That's 18.3 hp shy of what they promised me. $20,900/255 = $81.96/hp x 18.3 = $1499.87.
Nissan, send me my money!
Based on an 18% drive train loss with my 2K2 auto, Nissan owes me $1499.87.
I paid $20,900 for 255 fwhp. I got 236.7 fwhp (194.1 fwh/.82) to calculate flywheel hp. That's 18.3 hp shy of what they promised me. $20,900/255 = $81.96/hp x 18.3 = $1499.87.
Nissan, send me my money!
but i know i wouldn't accept and a lot of other owners wouldn't liek an extended warranty because the service sucks now and i wouldn't want that at all. and that fact they used this as a major selling point should also mean more, hyundai definetly doens't sell cars on hp levels, nissan is trying to though.
11-19-2002, 07:06 PM
#54
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,281
I'm really curious how this will all pan out in the end. I'm sure Nissan has scouters in this forum as we speak figuring out counter-arguments to what we all have mentioned. Cost-effective-wise, they either have a choice of recalling every 02 and 03 Max (sold 1st and leased 2nd) and bumping up the 15 HP that they advertised by changing the manifold, or possibly giving all buyers a refund check, which could turn out to be a slap in the face.
As is, the Nissan service dept where I bought my max is only 5 mins away from me, but to get something as simple as an oil change from them is like pulling teeth. You have to be there before the shop opens, but even then, the mechanic's don't come in until a half hr later. After a few weeks of this repetativeness (and the other Nissan service depts farther away weren't anymore helpful), I gave up and just found time to do it myself!
So for arguments sake, if that's not bad enough, and there are other recalls out there for the Max, as well as other Nissan cars, plus you have to factor in other people bringing their cars and trucks which maybe older in for service, I'm thinking everyone's going to be on a nice long waiting list for quite sometime before they get their extra 15 HP. (if we can get it)
Even if we got a letter in the mail from NNA saying to go to such and such dealership to have your extra 15 HP added, what corporate says is one thing, but what the local dealership can provide in time and labor is another. Sometimes, I think we should all just fight to get the highest rembursement check we can get and add the 15 extra HP ourselves.
Just my .02
As is, the Nissan service dept where I bought my max is only 5 mins away from me, but to get something as simple as an oil change from them is like pulling teeth. You have to be there before the shop opens, but even then, the mechanic's don't come in until a half hr later. After a few weeks of this repetativeness (and the other Nissan service depts farther away weren't anymore helpful), I gave up and just found time to do it myself!
So for arguments sake, if that's not bad enough, and there are other recalls out there for the Max, as well as other Nissan cars, plus you have to factor in other people bringing their cars and trucks which maybe older in for service, I'm thinking everyone's going to be on a nice long waiting list for quite sometime before they get their extra 15 HP. (if we can get it)
Even if we got a letter in the mail from NNA saying to go to such and such dealership to have your extra 15 HP added, what corporate says is one thing, but what the local dealership can provide in time and labor is another. Sometimes, I think we should all just fight to get the highest rembursement check we can get and add the 15 extra HP ourselves.
Just my .02
11-19-2002, 07:19 PM
#55
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 91
Nissanusa.com shows the Maxima SE A/T is about 109 pounds heavier than the Altima 3.5 SE A/T. As we know Nissan advertised the 3.5 V6 in the Maxima to have 15 more HP than the Altima. This extra 15HP and 109 pounds in the Maxima has resulted slower time in the quarter mile. Car & Driver, Motor Trend and Road & Track havn't tested a 02-03 Maxima with A/T and the closest is a 02 Infiniti I35:
Altima 3.5 SE A/T:
Car & Driver 0-60 6.3, 1/4M 14.8
Motor Trend 0-60 6.6, 1/4M 14.99
Infiniti I35 A/T:
Motor Trend 0-60 7.0, 1/4M 15.3
Is an extra 15HP and 109 pounds translates to 0.3-0.5 slower to the quarter mile time
Altima 3.5 SE A/T:
Car & Driver 0-60 6.3, 1/4M 14.8
Motor Trend 0-60 6.6, 1/4M 14.99
Infiniti I35 A/T:
Motor Trend 0-60 7.0, 1/4M 15.3
Is an extra 15HP and 109 pounds translates to 0.3-0.5 slower to the quarter mile time
11-19-2002, 07:22 PM
#56
Just to chime in...
The extra ponies were a big factor in my decision to buy the Max. I looked at the Altima but it was the extra HP and the 6Speed that made my decision final. As far as it not being a big deal, if you look at all the commercials the Horsepower is pretty much what they're selling.
I'm sure that if the HP was equal in the ads between this and the Altima, A LOT of people would have gone with the Alty. Nissan wouldn't have lost much business but between this and all the other "little" problems I'm starting to second guess my next car. I just helped a buddy of mine put a JL Audio kicker in his Accord this weekend and it sounded weird...NO RATTLES
Not to mention that he has pretty much no problems with his car. I'm not saying I would buy an Accord (probably a BMW or Toyota) but I was really hoping for more from Nissan.
For shame Nissan, for shame
I'm sure that if the HP was equal in the ads between this and the Altima, A LOT of people would have gone with the Alty. Nissan wouldn't have lost much business but between this and all the other "little" problems I'm starting to second guess my next car. I just helped a buddy of mine put a JL Audio kicker in his Accord this weekend and it sounded weird...NO RATTLES
Not to mention that he has pretty much no problems with his car. I'm not saying I would buy an Accord (probably a BMW or Toyota) but I was really hoping for more from Nissan.
For shame Nissan, for shame
11-19-2002, 07:29 PM
#57
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 91
Nissanusa.com shows the Maxima SE A/T is about 109 pounds heavier than the Altima 3.5 SE A/T. As we know Nissan advertised the 3.5 V6 in the Maxima to have 15 more HP than the Altima. This extra 15HP and 109 pounds in the Maxima has resulted slower time in the quarter mile. Car & Driver, Motor Trend and Road & Track havn't tested a 02-03 Maxima with A/T and the closest is a 02 Infiniti I35:
Altima 3.5 SE A/T:
Car & Driver 0-60 6.3, 1/4M 14.8
Motor Trend 0-60 6.6, 1/4M 14.99
Infiniti I35 A/T:
Motor Trend 0-60 7.0, 1/4M 15.3
Is an extra 15HP and 109 pounds translates to 0.3-0.5 second slower to the quarter mile time
Altima 3.5 SE A/T:
Car & Driver 0-60 6.3, 1/4M 14.8
Motor Trend 0-60 6.6, 1/4M 14.99
Infiniti I35 A/T:
Motor Trend 0-60 7.0, 1/4M 15.3
Is an extra 15HP and 109 pounds translates to 0.3-0.5 second slower to the quarter mile time
11-19-2002, 07:31 PM
#58
Just to chime in...
The extra ponies were a big factor in my decision to buy the Max. I looked at the Altima but it was the extra HP and the 6Speed that made my decision final. As far as it not being a big deal, if you look at all the commercials the Horsepower is pretty much what they're selling.
I'm sure that if the HP was equal in the ads between this and the Altima, A LOT of people would have gone with the Alty. Nissan wouldn't have lost much business but between this and all the other "little" problems I'm starting to second guess my next car. I just helped a buddy of mine put a JL Audio kicker in his Accord this weekend and it sounded weird...NO RATTLES
Not to mention that he has pretty much no problems with his car. I'm not saying I would buy an Accord (probably a BMW or Toyota) but I was really hoping for more from Nissan.
For shame Nissan, for shame
I'm sure that if the HP was equal in the ads between this and the Altima, A LOT of people would have gone with the Alty. Nissan wouldn't have lost much business but between this and all the other "little" problems I'm starting to second guess my next car. I just helped a buddy of mine put a JL Audio kicker in his Accord this weekend and it sounded weird...NO RATTLES
Not to mention that he has pretty much no problems with his car. I'm not saying I would buy an Accord (probably a BMW or Toyota) but I was really hoping for more from Nissan.
For shame Nissan, for shame
11-19-2002, 09:29 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 106
Haha....
This kinda reminds me of the whole 2000 Model refresher," Hey my Maxima can't go 142mph like it advertised in the commercials!" complaints. Oh that was fun. Some cars had limiters some didn't. The limiters all didn't kick in at the same time......that was fun.
I'm tired of Nissan North America. My next cars going to be German.
I'm tired of Nissan North America. My next cars going to be German.
11-19-2002, 10:11 PM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 119
Re: Haha....
What got me started looking at Nissans was the hype about the 240hp Altima, and how quick it was. When I couldn't find a 5spd anywhere, plus I found out the Max had 15 EXTRA hp, it was a no brainer for me!
I got a 6spd "flagship" sedan and 15 EXTRA hp...or did I?!
I got a 6spd "flagship" sedan and 15 EXTRA hp...or did I?!
11-19-2002, 10:22 PM
#61
Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 32
I also was trying to decide between the Altima and Max....and the extra HP was a major factor in my decision.
Just as a point of fact my previous vehicle was a 1998 Dakota R/T which had a false claim for towing capacity. I also belonged to the Dakota group on the net. It all started out with a class action law suit in the USofA. Chrysler advertised the Dakota as the big hauler with the 5.9 litre motor.....The flyer showed it towing a boat and bragged about what it could tow. Then all of a sudden they said sorry it can only tow 2000lbs not the advertised 6700lbs. Due to preasure from owners Chrysler offered a extended warranty, $750. in Mopar parts or a 100% buyback. I got back 2 yrs of lease payments and handed back the truck. I gave the truck back due to the tarnished image which would effect the resale value as it was no longer the top in it's catagory which is what we are up against. Nissan told us it was the best we could get for our money.....was it actualy or just stated to be so they could sell the Max for more than the Altima..........
Signed ****ed In Canada
Just as a point of fact my previous vehicle was a 1998 Dakota R/T which had a false claim for towing capacity. I also belonged to the Dakota group on the net. It all started out with a class action law suit in the USofA. Chrysler advertised the Dakota as the big hauler with the 5.9 litre motor.....The flyer showed it towing a boat and bragged about what it could tow. Then all of a sudden they said sorry it can only tow 2000lbs not the advertised 6700lbs. Due to preasure from owners Chrysler offered a extended warranty, $750. in Mopar parts or a 100% buyback. I got back 2 yrs of lease payments and handed back the truck. I gave the truck back due to the tarnished image which would effect the resale value as it was no longer the top in it's catagory which is what we are up against. Nissan told us it was the best we could get for our money.....was it actualy or just stated to be so they could sell the Max for more than the Altima..........
Signed ****ed In Canada
11-19-2002, 10:31 PM
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 106
My Thoughts...
First of all, I think it's been sufficiently proven that the 255hp designation was a major factor in some of our decisions. I could have had an Altima with Leather and bose, but I instead chose to go with the 255hp instead. The two cars are obviously very similar now and the increased HP was a deciding factor for a lot of us.
Second, don't expect big money from Nissan. I would immagine an increase to the warranty (ie. Hyundai) would be more realistic. It would be the easiest and cheapest way out for them. I would also think it would only apply to original owners, as the subsequent owners would already be aware of HP deficiency.
Finally, don't use 0-60 times for HP comparison. Especially from different magazines. There are way too many variables in that kind of testing. Only a side by side dyno in similar controlled conditions will prove the difference.
Second, don't expect big money from Nissan. I would immagine an increase to the warranty (ie. Hyundai) would be more realistic. It would be the easiest and cheapest way out for them. I would also think it would only apply to original owners, as the subsequent owners would already be aware of HP deficiency.
Finally, don't use 0-60 times for HP comparison. Especially from different magazines. There are way too many variables in that kind of testing. Only a side by side dyno in similar controlled conditions will prove the difference.
11-19-2002, 10:49 PM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 243
Touche!! Do you guys remember when C&D first started pulling numbers like 6.6 for the '97 Maxima 5-spd ??!! for only 190hp, they called it the greatest thing since sliced bread in a fwd format. If anything, THAT engine might have been underrated (obviously not really) and that weighed 3000lbs...
then, with another 200lbs and 32 hp and negligible torque increase... the car doesn't perform ANY better than the previous model... that's when the big hp campaign seemed to start....remember all the commercials w/ the "222" hp ???
then, with another 200lbs and 32 hp and negligible torque increase... the car doesn't perform ANY better than the previous model... that's when the big hp campaign seemed to start....remember all the commercials w/ the "222" hp ???
11-19-2002, 11:37 PM
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 630
Getting alittle preturbed
255hp was a major decision in my buying experience. Other factors were the 6spd, CD changer and elegant interior as opposed to the Altima's cheap interior.
However the issue here is that the Maxima should be dynoing 15 hp more than the Altima. The extra 15 hp is everything. Its what seperates the Maxima from its younger brother because God knows the suspension doesn't!
How do we know the Maxima doesn't make 15 hp more than the Altima? B/c both cars are dynoing very close bone stock. This is definitely grounds for legal action b/c there were specific references to this number in advertising... and in fact almost every advertisement whether TV or brochure. I hope Nissan steps up to the plate or they will lose a first time customer for life!
Jesse
However the issue here is that the Maxima should be dynoing 15 hp more than the Altima. The extra 15 hp is everything. Its what seperates the Maxima from its younger brother because God knows the suspension doesn't!
How do we know the Maxima doesn't make 15 hp more than the Altima? B/c both cars are dynoing very close bone stock. This is definitely grounds for legal action b/c there were specific references to this number in advertising... and in fact almost every advertisement whether TV or brochure. I hope Nissan steps up to the plate or they will lose a first time customer for life!
Jesse
11-20-2002, 12:14 AM
#67
Sorry to "chime in" but..blah blah YES HP was MY CHOICE. The altima interior looked somewhat cheap. But the exterior is BEAUTIFUL. But low and behold, theres an extra 15 hp, a CLASS LEADING 15 horsepower. Hell, I even decided against the Acura TL/CL Just beacuse this one came with a 6 speed. But still the extra 15hp is what brought me to the "flagship". Theres NO WAY a my little brother altima will beat the flagship. It can't be. Did nissan LIE to me. As for the extended warantee. YOU CAN HAVE IT. I've had nothing but problems, even the tech's have issues. If they had warantee service like INFINITY or even TOYOTA id be happy. But NO....4 days WITHOUT a CALL BACK from NNA or Marina Nissan in california SUCKS. I requested a CALL BACK FROM 3 differnet people in NNA..Left 5 DIFFERENT voice mails at stupid F*cking Marina NISSAN, including 2 managers and the owner. NOTHING. NOT A SINGLE CALL BACK. After waiting, they called me to say the repair was done in Customer Good Faith. Good thing too or id have a lawyer so far up their tailpipe theyd wanna pack it up and move back to japan. I guess some people have had good luck with nissan and thier service, but i guess the majority have not. Lexus ALMOST KISSED MY FEET, when i walked in driving my 2k2 to trad it in. Walked into nissan, no one even looked. Very dissapointed. Great car...but such a shady compnay. Even talked to NNA about who controls the dealerships. Answer I got, " we just give them support"... So basically they ship them cars and cut the dealerships loose on customer service end. That blows in my opinion. I dont know how many other companies do that. But the complaints seem FEW on the other boards. No wonder that JDPower chart shows nissan on the bottom. Oh well. Sorry for the rant guys..but ive had it bottled up inside me for a long time.
NNA hope you read this. im only 20..shelled out my blood n' sweat at 600 a month to finance this stupid car. It has NOT been a good experience. Mabey my bad luck? Oh well..thanks for the help..not. I still cant belive only one person called me back out of about 6 people. Id like a call back..no matter how late..Look up my file, or e-mail me. Chinaonnitrous1@aol.com. A simple sorry would be nice.
NNA hope you read this. im only 20..shelled out my blood n' sweat at 600 a month to finance this stupid car. It has NOT been a good experience. Mabey my bad luck? Oh well..thanks for the help..not. I still cant belive only one person called me back out of about 6 people. Id like a call back..no matter how late..Look up my file, or e-mail me. Chinaonnitrous1@aol.com. A simple sorry would be nice.
11-20-2002, 06:23 AM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 308
False Advertising and Lack of Commitment to their Flagship
Originally posted by GMAN01SE
Honestly, after owning both, I think 222hp is farther from the truth than 255hp!
Honestly, after owning both, I think 222hp is farther from the truth than 255hp!
The very fact that a 4th gen Max produces 205 ft-lbs @ 4,000 rpm vs 2001 producing 217 ft-lbs @ 4,000 rpm with a 37hp and 185 lbs more is ridiculous (pure marketing and I fell for it by just staring at the 227hp figure).
I didn't see anyone else complaining about this so I was rational enough to see that I had no chance to stand up to Nissan Corp UNTIL NOW. Count me as an extra grain of sand for the sand storm approaching Nissan Corp.
11-20-2002, 06:30 AM
#70
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Should I even by a 2003 Maxima? I've been looking at ONLY Maximas for the past few months, and will be buying this week or next, but reading this post and some others regarding the quality of the Maxima's build and the service is giving me some SERIOUS doubts. The problems are that (1) I don't know if other manufacturers have similar issues with build/paint/service quality, and (2) there's no other car in the under $30K price that has all the things that the Maxima has (good styling both interior and exterior, "255"/240hp engine, etc etc). I used to think the world of the Maxima, but with every passing day, I'm starting to lose my respect for the car and the company. Do you guys still think it's the best buy for under $30,000?
11-20-2002, 06:38 AM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 308
Originally posted by vito1281
Should I even by a 2003 Maxima? I've been looking at ONLY Maximas for the past few months, and will be buying this week or next, but reading this post and some others regarding the quality of the Maxima's build and the service is giving me some SERIOUS doubts. The problems are that (1) I don't know if other manufacturers have similar issues with build/paint/service quality, and (2) there's no other car in the under $30K price that has all the things that the Maxima has (good styling both interior and exterior, "255"/240hp engine, etc etc). I used to think the world of the Maxima, but with every passing day, I'm starting to lose my respect for the car and the company. Do you guys still think it's the best buy for under $30,000?
Should I even by a 2003 Maxima? I've been looking at ONLY Maximas for the past few months, and will be buying this week or next, but reading this post and some others regarding the quality of the Maxima's build and the service is giving me some SERIOUS doubts. The problems are that (1) I don't know if other manufacturers have similar issues with build/paint/service quality, and (2) there's no other car in the under $30K price that has all the things that the Maxima has (good styling both interior and exterior, "255"/240hp engine, etc etc). I used to think the world of the Maxima, but with every passing day, I'm starting to lose my respect for the car and the company. Do you guys still think it's the best buy for under $30,000?
11-20-2002, 07:47 AM
#72
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14
Don't waste time
Hi, guys,
Just write a certified letter to Nissan Marketing Dept.
Ask them to assure that 2002 Nissan Maxima is indeed 255 HP,
ask them to have an assurance letter back in one week. I mean how
long does it take to type "Yes, it is." ? If they don't response,
keep your cetified letter receipt and do it again ubtil they
response, in the mean time, keep all the certified letter receipts
for later court actions.
Come on! They've been selling these things for years, they should
know better than anyone of us, and should know right on the spot
when the question been asked.
Once we got the assurance letter from Nissan, we can start
collecting all Dyno evidences to see if they match to what Nissan
has replied. Then we start from there.
Don't call them, write to them, talk does nothing, and it's
useless when you get on the court.
I think it's time for consumers to teach all these American Corps
one thing ------------ "Stop Lying!"
Lyl797
Just write a certified letter to Nissan Marketing Dept.
Ask them to assure that 2002 Nissan Maxima is indeed 255 HP,
ask them to have an assurance letter back in one week. I mean how
long does it take to type "Yes, it is." ? If they don't response,
keep your cetified letter receipt and do it again ubtil they
response, in the mean time, keep all the certified letter receipts
for later court actions.
Come on! They've been selling these things for years, they should
know better than anyone of us, and should know right on the spot
when the question been asked.
Once we got the assurance letter from Nissan, we can start
collecting all Dyno evidences to see if they match to what Nissan
has replied. Then we start from there.
Don't call them, write to them, talk does nothing, and it's
useless when you get on the court.
I think it's time for consumers to teach all these American Corps
one thing ------------ "Stop Lying!"
Lyl797
11-20-2002, 07:51 AM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,378
Originally posted by jjs
I think they would also have a field day with stacks of bench dyno data and test dyno data showing how they came up with the 255 figure while the 'prosecution' has to call to the stand a handful of 'butt dynos'.
I think they would also have a field day with stacks of bench dyno data and test dyno data showing how they came up with the 255 figure while the 'prosecution' has to call to the stand a handful of 'butt dynos'.
11-20-2002, 08:12 AM
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 574
Originally posted by CHAZMAX
Excellent job! We sincerely appreciate the hard work!
I hope they are genuine in their assurance that they are taking it seriously. We'll all see by their actual RESOLUTION in this matter. This will truly determine just HOW SERIOUS they are taking it.
As stated by MANY: "I BOUGHT MY MAXIMA WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT HAD 255 HP AND BECAUSE IT HAD A 15 HP ADVANTAGE OVER THE ALTIMA." Would the truth about the ACTUAL hp rating have made a difference? ABSOLUTELY!
Excellent job! We sincerely appreciate the hard work!
I hope they are genuine in their assurance that they are taking it seriously. We'll all see by their actual RESOLUTION in this matter. This will truly determine just HOW SERIOUS they are taking it.
As stated by MANY: "I BOUGHT MY MAXIMA WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT HAD 255 HP AND BECAUSE IT HAD A 15 HP ADVANTAGE OVER THE ALTIMA." Would the truth about the ACTUAL hp rating have made a difference? ABSOLUTELY!
11-20-2002, 08:33 AM
#75
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 35
I'm Joining In . . .
As my "user" name implies - I'm older than most of you.
I've raced countless Datsun 510s, and I brought one of the first 240Zs to America way back in early 1971. That's when dealers were waiting nearly a year to deliver a new Z. Over the years, we've owned many Datsuns/Nissans.
I was down to 3 cars before I purchased the SE - the SE, the Altima 3.5, and the TL 3.2S.
Because I couldn't get the Acura dealer to budge a nickel on the S, I threw that choice out. I really didn't like the chincy interior of the Altima, but the hype of the television commercials and magazine ads put that "fast" car at number 1.
I drove both the Altima and the Maxima. Identical "seat-of-the-pants" acceleration ! Then the salesman tells me about the 15 increased horse difference in the Maxima because of a "more freer-flowing muffler in the Max." Yea, I believed this alright! Actually, I didn't know about the increase form 222 to 255. I hadn't done my homework.
Anyways, I figured there was a horsepower difference of 15 in the Maxima, and as it broke in, the difference would be more noticeable.
It didn't. Altimas walk away from me. I'm not 100% happy with the Maxima. I have the most expensive warranty you can purchase form Nissan - even have the one thast pays the difference between what it's worth and what it would cost to purchase a new one! So they cannot extend mine any further.
Unless Nissan settles this issue correctly . . . they will never see another purchase with my name on it. And I know they could care less.
I've raced countless Datsun 510s, and I brought one of the first 240Zs to America way back in early 1971. That's when dealers were waiting nearly a year to deliver a new Z. Over the years, we've owned many Datsuns/Nissans.
I was down to 3 cars before I purchased the SE - the SE, the Altima 3.5, and the TL 3.2S.
Because I couldn't get the Acura dealer to budge a nickel on the S, I threw that choice out. I really didn't like the chincy interior of the Altima, but the hype of the television commercials and magazine ads put that "fast" car at number 1.
I drove both the Altima and the Maxima. Identical "seat-of-the-pants" acceleration ! Then the salesman tells me about the 15 increased horse difference in the Maxima because of a "more freer-flowing muffler in the Max." Yea, I believed this alright! Actually, I didn't know about the increase form 222 to 255. I hadn't done my homework.
Anyways, I figured there was a horsepower difference of 15 in the Maxima, and as it broke in, the difference would be more noticeable.
It didn't. Altimas walk away from me. I'm not 100% happy with the Maxima. I have the most expensive warranty you can purchase form Nissan - even have the one thast pays the difference between what it's worth and what it would cost to purchase a new one! So they cannot extend mine any further.
Unless Nissan settles this issue correctly . . . they will never see another purchase with my name on it. And I know they could care less.
11-20-2002, 08:58 AM
#76
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Manhattan Beach, Ca / Dallas, Tx
Posts: 3,751
Originally posted by Dany
Z owners are already upset. 2002 6-speed can run with Z no problem.
Z and G35 are overrated as well.
Z owners are already upset. 2002 6-speed can run with Z no problem.
Z and G35 are overrated as well.
11-20-2002, 09:07 AM
#77
Originally posted by vito1281
Should I even by a 2003 Maxima? I'm starting to lose my respect for the car and the company. Do you guys still think it's the best buy for under $30,000?
Should I even by a 2003 Maxima? I'm starting to lose my respect for the car and the company. Do you guys still think it's the best buy for under $30,000?
11-20-2002, 09:31 AM
#78
Re: Re: Max vs. alti
Originally posted by Y2K2Driver
They're not that different. The Max is Sequential Multiport FI while the Altima, I believe, is just Multiport FI. The difference is that sequential allows the computer to change the desired FI settings at any point since the fuel is not injected until just before the cylinder is ready for it, whereas multiport means the computer has to wait for one complete cycle before it can change FI settings since it injects the fuel for all cylinders at the same time. I would think that this would benefit the Max, but it must not be by much if no noticable hp gain is seen. It might be worth noting that the max will operate in Multiport FI mode at certain points, I'll need to check the ESM to be sure though. All in all, this difference doesn't account for the HP difference and even then it should be the Max benefiting, not the Altima.
They're not that different. The Max is Sequential Multiport FI while the Altima, I believe, is just Multiport FI. The difference is that sequential allows the computer to change the desired FI settings at any point since the fuel is not injected until just before the cylinder is ready for it, whereas multiport means the computer has to wait for one complete cycle before it can change FI settings since it injects the fuel for all cylinders at the same time. I would think that this would benefit the Max, but it must not be by much if no noticable hp gain is seen. It might be worth noting that the max will operate in Multiport FI mode at certain points, I'll need to check the ESM to be sure though. All in all, this difference doesn't account for the HP difference and even then it should be the Max benefiting, not the Altima.
yeah, sorry thats what i meant.
11-20-2002, 09:36 AM
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,968
Re: I'm Joining In . . .
Originally posted by Older Kid
I have the most expensive warranty you can purchase form Nissan - even have the one thast pays the difference between what it's worth and what it would cost to purchase a new one! So they cannot extend mine any further.
I have the most expensive warranty you can purchase form Nissan - even have the one thast pays the difference between what it's worth and what it would cost to purchase a new one! So they cannot extend mine any further.
11-20-2002, 09:42 AM
#80
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,216
Re: Re: I'm Joining In . . .
Originally posted by jjs
Come again...
Come again...
As far as me getting an I35 is concerned, I want a 6 speed, that's pretty much why I would choose a Maxima, along with a firmer suspension for better handling.