DrVolkl

Ok, I filed with the better business bureau a week ago.
I actually got a call from Nissan about the HP thing at work this morning.
Shannon, who was quite nice (and an altima owner) discussed with me the problem I was describing. She said a few important things:
1)They're taking my complaint very seriously
2)They've created a "file"
3)She's talking with the engineers
4)They won't be buying back my car
5)She will be checking out maxima.org for more info.

The base of my argument is that the maxima is dynoing the same HP as the Altima. We need hard #'s and back to back altima/maxima runs.

I have her # and dept., I'm not going to post it here to avoid people harassing her.

Our foot is in the door...

SupaFly

iTrader: (2)

Nice..I wonder if their file is in the garbage can.. jk

It's a step in the right direction. Thanks for the update

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

good work! id like to get my extra 15 ponies back.

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

good job, could you email me her info and i'll talk to her also and forward it to atty John Havas so he can speak with her also, we also have an altima and maxima both auto's dynoing next week at the same place so i can't wait to get those numbers. and i was pretty sure nissan wouldn't buy them back, they'll fix the number or give us a small refund.

steve@frankencar.com with the info, good job and thanks.

02MaximizedVQ

Another 15 hp and I'm going to need some new tires! Wonder how they would "give" us 15 hp. Maybe a computer reprogram?

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

I am going to buy a 2k2 now so i don't get left out

wild willy

iTrader: (10)

How can you get something back...if you never had it in the first place

maximadave

iTrader: (10)

Allright!

Phydeaux

I can see this now as you are being cross-examined by a high-dollar Nissan attorney:

"Mr. <insert-name>....you are aware of the aledged horsepower issue with the 2002 Maxima, correct?"

"Um,... yes" you reply as beads of sweat form on your forehead.

The attorney straightens his $800 Armani suit and continues, "And yet, sir, you still went to purchase a Maxima. Can you say why?"

"Um, well, aaa..." You start to loose control of your bodily functions.

"It is because you have other reasons for buying the car, right Mr. <insert-name>?"

"????"

jjs

I think they would also have a field day with stacks of bench dyno data and test dyno data showing how they came up with the 255 figure while the 'prosecution' has to call to the stand a handful of 'butt dynos'.

DrVolkl

Alright, i emailed the info to ya. I must admit I was quite happy to be called. She assured me that they were taking this VERY SERIOUSLY. She even mentioned the miata thing, but said that this won't be the same. Nissan dynos all their engines before they go into the car. She didn't know how the two engines were different...so perhaps the engineers can explain how our engine makes more HP out of the car but loses more once in it. I for one am quite curious.

MaxAtack

I didn't think they'd be buying our car's back....although....hmmmm...
........

Ah well, either gimme 15 more HP or gimme some money back!

Anuj

did shannon sound hot to you?

if so..may I have her number to "complain"

pjonkheer

Just give me my 15hp. Not looking for anyone to buy my car back, that just isn't realistic. However, I have a hard time seeing Nissan having the ability to even "upgrade" the engine to deliver another 15hp. Should be interesting to see what happens...

The louder we yell, the more people who hear about it, the more effective this onslaught, if you will can be...

PS - Watch the weight jokes...she might be reading this thread.
Don't wanna **** her off now do we?

CHAZMAX

Excellent job! We sincerely appreciate the hard work!

I hope they are genuine in their assurance that they are taking it seriously. We'll all see by their actual RESOLUTION in this matter. This will truly determine just HOW SERIOUS they are taking it.

As stated by MANY: "I BOUGHT MY MAXIMA WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT HAD 255 HP AND BECAUSE IT HAD A 15 HP ADVANTAGE OVER THE ALTIMA." Would the truth about the ACTUAL hp rating have made a difference? ABSOLUTELY!

Phydeaux

She's supposed to be trolling the .org for more information so you might not want to push this too far.

Which bring up an important point....how much information should we post on here since there is talk of legal action AND we now know that Nissan reps are (supposedly) looking at this board? You don't play poker with your hands face up on the table do you?

Zog

iTrader: (1)

I have a question. Let's pretend this actually comes to fruition. Since i bought my 2k2 used, but it's still under warranty, will any "upgrade" that may be decided apply to me, or just guys that bought it brand new. Cuz i could have bought the 2000, or 2001, but i wanted the 3.5. Thanks.

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

There's been so much talk about how few differences exist between the Maxima, 350Z, and G35 that I sort of believe that an ECU reprogram may very well fix the issue at since that seems to be such a major part of the different HP ratings. Though a counter argument my be if it really was that easy, then how come they didn't do it in the first place, and that I don't know.

MaxAtack

Weight jokes? what wait jokes??

Newman

iTrader: (3)

of course nissan doesnt want their sports car to have the same amount of horsepower as their family sedans. that is why it wasnt done in th first place.

if it ends up that they give us 15 HP somehow that will probably upset a lot of Z owners. i would rather just got compensated by some sort of refund.

Dany

iTrader: (1)

Z owners are already upset. 2002 6-speed can run with Z no problem.

Z and G35 are overrated as well.

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

One also needs to remember that will Nissan will want to resolve this as cheaply as possible. An ECU upgrade is pretty cheap compared to issueing refunds. The only costs associated with the ECU reprogram, besides engineering ones, are distribution of letters notifying owners and the time spent by the dealers to apply fix. That has got to be less than $100/vehicle. Would you accept a $100 refund? I wouldn't as its a slap in the face. Therefore, I think, if an ECU upgrade can do it, it will be the most probable recourse for Nissan.

jjames

***Lol. Yeah, I'm sure they are going to believe that you would've based your 20 some thousand dollar decision on 15 horsepower.

Bluesbrekr

iTrader: (4)

DITTO - The 255 number was VERY important in my decision to purchase the Maxima. I had faith in their numbers. If there has been a mistake, my expectation is that Nissan will do the right thing and correct the problem or compensate us for our loss.

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

ya when there was a comparably equipped, sized and priced vehicle with 15 hp less i'm sure lots of people did, other then the 6-spd and the 15hp there weren't many major differences between the altima and maxima. the altima has the IRS which i'm sure a lot of people considering but then the maxima SUPPOSEDLY had the extra hp.

and i don't think it will be as simple as just an ECU reprogram to get the 15 hp reliablly, the next best way will be with a new intake manifold to the tune of a few hundred bucks a car and that will definetly give the extra 15. and i'm gonna dyno a 350Z 6-spd on saturday after i do the Frankencar Intake proto type on the same dyno i did my stock dyno on so we'll have a good indictation of how much extra power the Z has. and ya we'll prolly end up racing

and ya no is shannon hot jokes. as long as she's here to help us and does everything she can she's ok in my book.

CHAZMAX

Now I didn't say that the ONLY reason why I made my decision was the 15 hp. Of course not. However, like many others, it was DEFINATELY a deciding factor. I originally was looking to buy an Altima (or Acura RSX type S), and one of the determining factor's for buying the Max was the extra power. (The PERCIEVED extra power). Again... would the TRUTH have made a difference? Absolutely.

TimW

iTrader: (6)

newsflash, NNA has trolled here for years. I've gotten a call regarding a complaint here. it was years ago tho.

drsprite

If an ECU upgrade is in order, are they going to mail EVERY maxima owner and say it's a recall? It'll be interesting to see how they handle this..

][ 35

iTrader: (2)

yup i agree the extra 15 hp was not he 100% of reason for buying the car but it was one of the main reason... and i would love to have extra 15 HP added on..... ECU upgrade that can add extra 15 HP would really great....

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

If a new intake manifold is the only answer, how will this affect low end torque? Would everyone here want the higher hp knowing that they were sacrificing low end torque? I am not so sure what I would pick given the chance. I don't really race the car, so its a tough call. Waht would everyone else do in this situation?

Phydeaux

An ECU upgrade (or any mod) to get 15HP? I don't see it happening... if there were 15HP there to find, why didn't you get it in the first place.

A refund? Really doubt it. No company is going to part with cash on this, they will fight as long at it takes and keep the appeals going.

Here is the most likely resolution (assuming there is one at all): The lawyers will get some settlement chunk of money, probably undisclosed. The rest of us will get some kind of rebate that can only be applied to (guess what?) the purchase of a new Nissan.

We've see them before: a settlement for some lawsuit that you never heard about is resolved, and out of the blue you get this thing in the mail. A coupon for $50 off your next cruise (big deal) or similar.

jsmith24

Well,my 2001 had an actual mechanical defect, and I've been complaining/fighting since the day after I bought the thing. That was May 15, 2001, and I just got a call from my attorney two weeks ago that said NNA was ready to settle (and that's only because the "Resolution Specialist" NNA sent out was a man of integrity and knowledge). Once we agreed on the number I was supposed to be told within a week where to drop the car off, and when I'd get my check. So far no word. I suppose these things take time...heck, I'm no lawyer or accountant (yeah, it's those bean-counters who really cause the trouble!).

All I can say is that unless there's some sort of Truth (fraud) in Advertising claim, those who are affected by this problem will have a heck of a time getting any real resolution.

Just so I know - is this a problem for only 2002, or is the 2003 in the same boat?

Jack

nismo-max500

now keep the flaming to a minimum cause im a 3rd gen guy. dont manufactures measure a the crank? at the engine?. if u dyno of course u are gonna lose power. because it has to go through the wheels. be happy w/ your 6 second 0-60 times and let it be.

lildanny61

my honest opinion (not that it really matters)

i bought my maxima because it was the best bang for the buck. looking at the stats on paper, it had 255hp, 246lb/tq, and weighed around 3200lbs

i was looking at the TL-S and on paper, it said 260hp, some low torque # (characteristic of honda engines) and weighed in at 3500? lbs.

looking over the options, the maxima and TL-S were virtually identical.

oh but wait! i got my fully loaded maxima (no nav) GLE for 26k, while the TL-S would have cost me upwards of 32k.

but now that im short 15hp, im kinda mad. im not saying that the 15hp would be worth the 6k difference in price, but the 255hp really helped me decide

Newman

iTrader: (3)

we know this. our argument is that if the Maxima truely has 255 horsepower at the crank it should be putting down more to the wheels than it actually does. my car put down 203.9 FWHP. that is almost a 21% loss through the drivetrain (assuming 255 crank HP). we feel that if the Maxima does in fact have 255 horsepower it should be putting down upwards of 210 FWHP consistantly (with a fair assumption of about an 18% drivetrain loss). but that isnt the case.

DrVolkl

This is an advertising issue. Nissan is about to get slapped, cause guess what...the Z ain't making 280hp either..no way. The altima/pathfinder have the most accurate HP ratings. Beyond that, it's a mystery. Show me how our engine makes 15 more hp than the altima...please, and then show me how we lose it on the dyno compared to the altima. They had to change the #'s on the SE-R (which is still elevated).

This isn't just about the maxima, it concerns Nissan marketing in general, which is why it is SERIOUS.

Read Headline: "Nissan makes up HP to boost sales...new Z closer to F"

Lumbee799

The 15 extra hp between the Altima and Maxima was a big part of the decision on my purchase.

Nissan makes two high performance 4 door sports cars. One car has a nice new modern exterior with a mediocre interior. The other car exterior is not as attractive but the design and construction of the interior makes up for it. Both vehicles are about the same size and weight, both offer similar features, and both are approximately the same price. Now at this point we really have a 50/50 split as to which is the better car. But if you were told one was faster, more powerful, and quicker than the other which would you choose?

2k1GrayMaxSE

It's a very serious issue since Nissan has made "the new 255 hp Maxima" a big part of its advertising campaign.

On the other hand, haven't numerous dynos indicated the 3.5 is churning out substantially higher lb-ft of torque than advertised? I don't see anyone complaining about that. I'd rather have the extra torque in day-to-day driving than a few extra ponies that only contribute at high speeds (i.e. waaaay beyond legal).

Now, about that paint chip issue.....Ooops, Nissan has acknowledged that problem with the recent commercial where a super black Maxima turns into a sheer silver (or is it primer? Hmmmmm)Maxima.

Cars like it:0

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

MOST nissan engines are overrated. I was in person to watch a modded sentra spec V, track edition Z, and a modded 3.5 5spd altima dyno at stillen day last month.

modded spec V: 125-130 hp
STOCK 350Z: 225-230 hp
Modded Altima: 228-235 hp

I forgot the exact numbers in the 3 runs, but the ones posted are pretty close. I know for a FACT that the modded alty put down more than the Z

btw... all were manual transmission

serin

iTrader: (2)

yeah. i remember that day, when a wave of disappointment went thru the crowd. didn't know why at the time tho with a z up there.

wasn't there some SUPERmodded 300z up there that put down like 500??