MiniRX7

After being the first with the 2k2 and timing advance (thanks alta)...

I have now gotten it retarded..

I took it in to 401-Dixie nissan and they gave me $hit for having it advanced .. (sometimes i think Jim is crazy, swearing and me and evertyhign saying that these engines don't respond to advance, and that it voids your warranty,etc..).

So no charge, he retarded the timing back to -1 degrees, however did me a favour and applied the 2000-2001 wind noise TSB to my 2k2 (HUGE DIFFERENCE!!)..

Now that i have been driving with the timing advanced for like 5 or so months and driving with the timing retarded i can tell you the difference.

for some reason, I CANNOT FEEL ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL!! was it in my head i don't know... However i do now feel a bit of lag in and around 3000 rpm at wot, as though there is a kick in the butt (6pseed of course)..

What do you guys think?

ED

spta97

iTrader: (1)

What is the advance supposed to do anyway?

maximadave

iTrader: (10)

I had mine done too because my engine was pinging too much. The dealer told me it was my Injen intake. I'm switching to the Stillen intake soon and have the timing advanced back to normal.

SteVTEC

Advanced timing = more pressure built up from combustion when the piston reaches the top of the stroke = more power to send it flying downward with = more power

Less ignition advance means there's less pressure built up and less power.


More advance means there's more. But if you advance too much, you can get knocking (pinging, detonation, etc, all interchangable terms )

MiniRX7

On the 2k2, you cannot advance past i believe 4 degrees as the computer automatically pulls back the timing...

I am now at the CONSULT TOOL reading -1 degrees from +3 degrees...

I still feel no power difference..
ED

itdood

I could be wrong, but I thought advancing ignition was to help get a more usable burn in upper RPMs? Maybe that's what your saying and I read it wrong?

As I understand it, ignition is advanced as RPMs go up, usually settling at 22 degrees advanced or so near redline on a well tuned motor with no ping. As the RPMs go up, the pistons are moving faster, so ignition has to start sooner or the charge will not have time to completely burn before the pistion hits BDC and the exhaust valve opens, which would waste some of the energy.

But like you said, if it gets too advanced, you get ping, so it has to be balanced with safety for the engine.

Forgive me if I mis-understood

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

I just had the timing on my 2K SE advanced to 17 degrees BTDC. So far I've experienced no detonation whatsoever. And I DEFINITELY notice a power increase. It's subtle . . . but it's there. So unless I start to run into a problem, I don't intend to retard my timing any time soon.

By the way, you said that you felt NO DIFFERENCE when you had your timing retarded, MiniRX7. But then you say that you now feel a lag around 3,000 rpm. That's about the point at which the timing advance on my 2K really kicks in. So it appears you notice a difference even though you say you don't. Or am I not reading your comments correctly?

PS: Let's keep in mind that advancing the timing to 17 degrees BTDC is IN-SPEC according to the ESM. I suppose it's possible that Nissan would publish timing specifications designed to damage their engines. But that doesn't seem very logical, does it?

Nathan

iTrader: (28)

Ed, is 401 dixie your home dealership? Were you going for your regular service maintanence when they told you this? Also, do dealers charge for doing the wind noise TSB? I need to do mine soon.

MiniRX7

401 Dixie is not my home dealership, my car is a total **** when it comes to dealerships!!!

1. 401 Dixie
2. Sherway Nissan
3. Scarborough Nissan
4. Alta Nissan (markham) <==Advanced my timing hear
5. Alta Nissan (woodbridge)

2k2 does not apply for the TSB.. CANADA SUCKS

ED

03BlkSETE

iTrader: (3)

Wow, don't know what to say.

Your initial experience is one of the reasons I tried this. yskse described the power increase perfectly, subtle but there. The Nissan tech that did this for me also did it to his own car, for what that's worth. Here's another observation...my trip computer never read above 15 mpg (kinda low isn't it), now it's at 16.3 mpg.

Also, since I've been recently accused of being politically correct I think you should say you are now timing challenged.

MiniRX7

Hahaha..

No doubt, i do believe maybe its the cold weather that masked the dramatic effect (avg temp in toronto is -15 degrees celsius)..

But i remember a long time ago being amazed by the difference..

I will tell you righ tnow, i am going to advance it again later, i hate being retarded!!

ED

Jer

iTrader: (2)

Good old 401 Dixie! I think you don't feel any difference just due to the cold... blame the computer in part but I think you'd only notice the difference to a point, and it didn't do much now that it's so crappy out.. once things warm up you might feel a little better with it advanced again.

bluemaxx

I left my dealer today with my feelings hurt. I had the low speed fuel cut off TSB (2k1 AE MT) in November. After the ECM burn the low speed problems were totaly corrected. I didn't realize how bad it was or I would have been *****ing all along! The trade off is that the car seems lazy now. Not terrible but just doesn't have the same attitude. If it was my old small block Chevy I'd reach in and twist some advance on the distributer.
I took it back today for another problem, begged them to do something about it. Kevin the mehcanic swears the ignition timing is burned into the ECM and nothing can be done.
From reading this thread I gotta believe Kevin is full of krap but he wouldn't budge.
Is their a TSB or something that mentions changing the timing? If I could just get them to acknowledge that it can be adjusted I might have a shot. As it stands they say it can't be done, you guys seem to have another opinion. Any one have a suggestion?

Linh

LOL

2k2kev

did the dealer say it was the INJEN intake that caused it, or the INTAKE? What's different effect will stillen have than injen?

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

What a friggin' idiot.

This isn't a matter of opinion, bluemaxx. It's a matter of fact. Find out if Kevin is a betting man and then bet him everything he owns against everything you own. Hopefully he owns something of value because if he accepts your bet, it will soon be yours.

If Kevin the mechanic is actually stupid enough to accept your bet, drop me an e-mail at bld522@yahoo.com. I'll send you the Consult readouts that prove my timing was advanced to 17 degrees BTDC and put you in contact with the lead tech at my dealership who advanced my timing. My fee for doing so will be 10% of the liquidated value of Kevin's assets.

TellschMax02

iTrader: (2)

How do you know this?

Brian

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Hmm...maybe it has something to do with airflow. There have been posts that the Injen intake is somewhat restricted on airflow compared to the Stillen intake.

y2kse, where did you go to get your timing advanced and how much did they charge? I may get mine advanced to 17 after hearing your comments. I live in orange county, I have a mechanic near me and he can probably do it. Just wondering what you got charged.

Thanks,
Ryan

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Very simply. The knock sensor picks up the detonation and retards the timing. Can you feel that when it happens? You betcha. You start to accelerate and all of a sudden it feels like you're dragging an anchor! It used to happen to me all the time before I had my ignition coils replaced.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

I had my timing advanced at Performance Nissan in Duarte, CA. The dealership is just west of the junction of the 605 and 210 freeways. I had to do a little negotiating over the cost. They initially wanted to charge me $80.00. But I got them to knock it down to $40.00. Advancing the timing only takes about 15 to 20 minutes to do with a Consult.

If you're interested in having them advance your timing, contact Henry Perez in Service. His number is 626-305-3000. Tell him Bruce sent you.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Cool! Thanks for the info. I am gonna check with my mechanic first, he is closer.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Put up a post when you get your timing advanced and let us know how you like it.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Well I just got my timing advanced yesterday. Let me tell you there is definitely a difference, especially at mid-range RPM, and I even feel a little more up top too.

I got it done at a Nissan dealer, and the service manager there was pretty cool. I told him I wanted to advance the timing and he gave me no flack at all. Then I got a little nervous about my SE gauges in my GLE and see if he would notice those. He did, which is why he thought I had an SE, but I corrected him and told him it was a GLE. Still no flinch after that. And for $42, and 30 minutes later I highly recommend this.

I have not had any pinging or early detonation whatsoever. Just gotta make sure I keep putting 91 octane in there. Ahhh and gas prices just went over $2 a gallon for that stuff,

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Way to go, foodmanry. Welcome to the best-bang-for-the-buck mod club. Now if you haven't already installed a UDP, get in touch with RVM racing and buy one of theirs for $80.00 + $8.00 shipping. It really enhances the timing advance, particularly in the mid-range RPM.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Yeah? How is the install on that? I have heard it is moderate. But a DYI like myself (I have done all the maintenance and aftermarket installs) is it a difficult job?

Any link to RVM racing? or contact info?

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

I can't tell you about the install. I had my mechanic do it. He didn't think it was a big deal, however. He only charged me one hour of labor.

Here's a link to a thread that discusses my experience with the UDP:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=189404

RVM can be reached at:

www.rvmracing.com

TellschMax02

iTrader: (2)

That is what I figured you would say (it has been awhile since I checked this board).

My only comment to this is you will never really know the severity of the knock/detonation/ping until you hook up a logger and do some pulls. Just because the car doesn't feel like it is dragging an anchor (in cases of extreme knock – timing retardation), doesn't mean that it is not knocking. Also, I don’t know about you, but I cannot hear all knock.

I do not know about Maxima’s in this regard, but I can tell you how 1G DSM's handle knock/timing. You are right in that the ECU adjusts timing based off of the knock sensor outputs - the question is how much? Well, for DSMs if it sees 0-3 counts of knock the ECU still advances timing. Once it gets to around 4-7 counts it holds timing and anything greater than 7 counts it starts pulling timing. There are so many variables in making a car feel sluggish; I would have a hard time pin pointing it on the timing right away. I have logged in excess of 20 counts of knock and the car (1G DSM) was pulling ***** to the wall. I definitely could not hear any knocking and if I would have left the tune the way it was I probably would have needed a head gasket in no time.

I guess the bottom line is you never really know until you hook up a logger/diag and find out for sure. And if it is reading some knock, how much is tolerable? Hell, maybe it is not knocking at all. For me, anytime I adjust anything as crucial as timing – I would be sure to hook up a logger and get access to vital information before considering the mod a success.

Brian

Greek to the Max

iTrader: (2)

The pinging could of been low octane gas. Happened to me.

Greek to the Max

iTrader: (2)

The pinging could of been low octane gas. Happened to me.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Nah. That's too much trouble, Brian. And I'm just not that concerned. The engine pulls well and I'm not noticing any audible detonation. I also run Chevron Supreme with Techron exclusively. I have an extended warranty and my timing advance is within factory spec. That's good enough for me.

PS: If the factory is stupid enough to publish a spec that damages the engine, they can damn well replace the engine.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

I just drove over 600 miles with the new timing setting at 17. I went over the grapevine with about an 800 lb load and the AC on. I did not hear any knocking or pinging of the engine. It still pulled as it would with no load, on flat land, without the AC. I think the fact that I have extended warranty and it’s within spec, then I should be ok. But the car is running beautifully.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Yet another testimonial from a satisfied Max owner.

Advancing the timing to 17 degrees BTDC is a simple, inexpensive mod that's within factory spec and doesn't void your warranty. Try it. You'll like it.

busakiller

what is TSB??

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Look here, busakiller:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=29351

busakiller

Thanks y2kse.....

BigCat44

Is this just for 2k or will this work as well on a 2k2?

03BlkSETE

iTrader: (3)

Yes, it will work on a 2k2.

Max_Gator

y2kse - What is the normal setting on the 2k and how many degrees of timing advance did you do (I guess answering the first will give me the second!).

Also, what is the spec range and where in the ESM can I refer the tech.

In my experience, the techs are frequently ignorant - I had to teach the tech that fixed my Vias what the vias was, how it worked, and how I knew there was something wrong with it.

Max_Gator

I figured it out: the stock setting appears to be either 14 or 15 - and the spec: 15+/- 2 for a 2k.