SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

He wouldn't give a rip because you're trashing the L67 (3800) based cars. But I haven't showed him this tread anyways.

14.5 should be doable. Just don't try to launch too hard. Sometimes the granny lanuches yield the best results. And run each gear almost to the rev limiter which is about 7000 RPM on the lying **** tach (which was probably programmed by the same dufus that programmed the fuel computer .

vqman

oh if the tach shows 7000, i'm really only at what...6500?

I tried at first launching at like 2500rpm...but I think I was letting the clutch out to fast...

real slow on the clutch, and what rpm do you recommend? (stock pretendaz for tires)

Soon2BMaxed was suggesting I go higher...so I tried 3500rpm, then 4500rpm...

my best run (14.99) i had MAD wheel hop...but kept going...got the 14.99. I think I launched that one around 4000rpm. what do you think that wheel hop did to my times? 0.1, 0.2 seconds?

-vq

skaczor

I had a 98 4 dr GTP moded to 280-300 hp and it was quite abit quicker then my 00 SE. Stock I think a 03 would be dead even. My 98 moded GTP could run high 13's and beat my 97 stock Z28.

F23A4

I think if I had a UDP and CAI and ran slower than my best stock time, I'd be SUPER depressed.

Dave B

It's going to take lots of practice. You really need to find out where your fuel-cut is so you can gauge where your true rpms really are. Just wind out 2nd till you hear "ba....ba....ba....ba....ba!". I think a lot of the 6 speed guys are going to nearly fuel-cut in every gear therefore you'll probably finish in 3rd.

Launching hard is a very tricky thing at KCIR. If I can pull consistent mid-2.2 60 foots on bald 6-year old Goodyear RSAs, you should be able to pull off a higher 2.2 60' on the newer Potenzas.

I'd try launching at 2500rpms while slipping the clutch and feeding it gas in a relatively quick motion. If you bog, raise the launch rpm 500 rpms higher. Once you get the grasp of what you're doing, you'll develop a feel for what the tires are doing. Slipping the clutch for any extended period of time will only slow you down.

For every .1 you shed off your 60', you're looking at around a .15 drop in ET and maybe a little increase in MPH. I'm guessing you'll pull a 14.7@96mph this time around


Dave

LordHowe

does the GTP even comes in stick?? I thought it's all automatic. and by the way, what's the OFFICIAL time (0-60, quater) for a automatic 2003 stock max?? It seems like no one really knows exactly how fast it really goes. anyone really know?

vqman

the 14.7 and 14.99 were times for two different drivers, and two different cars...

14.7 = GTP w/UDP and CAI----Brent

14.99 = Maxima STOCK----ME

just clarifying...I don't know what he ran stock...

-vq

vqman

KCIR was tricky to launch...have you been since the resurfaced?

I wish there wasn't so many damn people there...I want to run 7 or 8 times, but I don't want to be there all day...

-vq

E55AMG2

iTrader: (4)

He has 280lb/ft and a supercharger......be careful

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

The 35 makes so much torque that you don't need a high RPM clutch burning launch. I ran a 14.3 with a less than 2000 RPM launch on the Blotenzas. Get the car moving before you give it WOT. Unless you've got some slicks.

HitManSE

iTrader: (1)

I figured that would be the best way to launch the 3.5, its got so much torque at 3k that launching it any higher would do nothing more then spin the wheels. Btw yeah it does have a supercharger but as Dave B said, and as most of us have seen. If falls flat on its face in the high end. Its a low reving high torque engine, plain and simple.

KL99SEA

iTrader: (1)

You won't finnish the 1/4 in 3rd!!!!!! You'd be turning over 8000 RPM's......the 6 speeds only do like 86 in 3rd at redline. You will be into 4th before 90 and pulling to like 96 or so.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

HitManSE

iTrader: (1)

Cant argue with that.

Dave B

It will be packed. Get there at least a 1/2 hour before the gates open. Opening day, a resurfaced track, racer appreciation day (free food) = you'll only get 3 runs in.....if you're really lucky. The problem is that it's in the heart of a bigger city. They'll be about 20 motorcycles, 20 Pro-Mods, 6 junior dragsters, and 100+ street cars. They typically run in 15-20 minute rotations. It's not uncommon to wait an hour in line to make one pass. By then your motor is smoking hot because you're either idling or turn it on and off.



Dave

Bucho

I don't want to get into a pi$$ing match over this. Stock for stock I'd still give it to the Max for its top end (even if you blow the launch a little - just keep in it and hope he doesn't own a factory freak ) You should catch him around 80 or so. My brother has a 3.5 Alti w/ FrankenCar intake, so I do know the fun of the VQ (although he hasn't got a chance anymore).

But with just a $120 in mods watch out lol

And if he's got the SERIOUS MOD BUG -
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=373

This car has the stock S/C (modified) and is done purely on MOTOR.

F23A4

I consider the link in my sig official.

Altima-02

Fast Dodge

LordHowe

F23A4 what do you figure your 0 - 60 time is?? and do you drive an automatic?

F23A4

I'd approximate that I'm probably doing 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds. And yes! I have an auto tranny.

vqman

maybe I'll talk trevor into sitting with me, and pushing my car whenever we move...doubt i'll enjoy that though...

3 runs? that may not be worth it...except that it IS march, and the weather is nice, I wouldn't want to wait until July...I guess this will be my last time to the track until the Fall...

-vq

LordHowe

u are running that fast completely stock? pretty impressive if so

vqman

yeah, I even left my spare tire in the trunk, and the stock air filter in the box!

people are pretty mixed on whether or not that is "impressive". Myself, I think I can do better, considering my horrible 2.5 second 60 foot time.

I'm trying to get a "baseline" so I can see the affects of any mods I may or may not do in the future.

I will go to the track again Sunday, and then again in the Fall...after that, I'll wait until I have modded my car before I go again...unless I can't pull a 14.6 or lower.

-vq

HitManSE

iTrader: (1)

Whats the elivaton of that track. I was at Firebird tonight and some1 with a 2K2 6spd was runnin mid 14's (due to horrible traction)
but was still trapping consistant 100+ mph runs. He hit a high of 102mph when he ran a 14.5 I belive. His is basically stock all he has is the ghetto air box, a KN filter and a piece from the box cut off. Everything else was stock! I dont understand why you wouldnt be able to run any faster the high 14's. A 2k2 auto was also there, bone stock and was runnin 15 flat, but when Dave hooked up the KN setup he had the auto ran .3 faster with 2mph increase. I was impressed to say the least.

Y2KSESteve

iTrader: (22)

Which is why I just switched to that intake. How'd you do tonight?

LordHowe

Just curious, what's the fastest 1/4 time that anyone has gotten with a stock 2002/03 automatic?

mid 14's????

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

The quickest proven stock automatic did 14.66 . blubyu2k2

motectransam

Dad has 136k miles on his Series II S/C Bonneville. Burns only 1/4 quart oil every 3k miles. Undercarriage is bone dry. Transmission shifts crisply. Should run 14s easily still. Friend had an '89 Olds 98 with an older 3.8L. 380k+ miles, valvecovers never removed and doesn't burn oil.

motectransam

I agree. It's going to be close if it's from a dead stop. On a role or up to very high speeds, the Maxima will eventually win out.

The grippier the pavement, the bigger the advantage for the GTP. The GTP has a loose convertor which combined with its high low speed thrust potential on hand has plenty of reserve to blow its tires loose on less than tacky surfaces.

My dad's '96 stalls at an indicated 3200 rpm (making about 275 lbs. ft. torque at that rpm). Fastest time I ever saw on a Regal/GTP bone stock right down to tires is a Regal GS that ran 14.49 at 92 mph.

motectransam

I think the GTPs are set at 126 mph? I think even with the blower the L67 GM 3.8L costs less than the VQ plus it gets the job done...that is similar 0-60mph times and actually better EPA numbers for the iron block/head GM motor. So much for pushrod motors being inferior. The VQ motor however shines in the 99% driving mode of refinement.

motectransam

Stock for stock, nobody on either side has the right to be ****y. They're just to closely matched. I bet you between driver and production variances you might be able to find a closer race between a GTP and '02/'03 Max auto than a GTP vs. GTP or Max vs. Max.

As for the Max's superiort top-end...that's almost without doubt. But remember if it's a race from a stop and if the GTP on a tacky surfaces gets a 2 car lead...it will take a ton of real estate to make up the difference given the relatively modest advantage of the Max on top.

The GTPs and Regals I noticed have a significantly restrictive intake box and to a lesser degree exhaust (by 1st glance) than the Bonnevilles/Park Aves/Riviera S/C cars. However the Bonnevilles/Park Aves/Rivieras are much heavier except in the case of a ('96/'97 only for Series II S/C) rare base Bonneville with the SLE and S/C options (which my dad has). They weight ~50 lbs heavier tha a GTP at 3550 lbs. w/o driver but full tank of fuel. The modest weight penalty and the probable hp advantage (despite same manufacturer ratings) is one reason why a base '96/'97 Bonneville with a S/C like my dad's trapped 94.06 in moderately cool air and up to 94.7 mph in cold air and 96.2 mph with propylene oxide/race gas mix otherwise 100% stock right down to a paper filter.

Dave B

The tracks VQ and myself race at are ~1100' above sea level. The conditions we raced in when he got his high 14.9@95mph weren't good. It was deep in 70s with a nasty low baro pressure. Team that with poor 2.4-2.5 60 foots and you won't get terribly impressive numbers.

This Sunday we're racing at our local track which just got resurfaced. The temps are going to be in 50s which will be nice. If he can get his 60' in to the low 2.3/high 2.2 range, he should pull off a 14.6-14.7@95+mph or better. Hopefully he'll show up without much fuel and he'll pull all the junk out of his car like the spare and loose items. BTW, I plan on putting the hurt on him and our friend with the G35 Hopefully some GTPs will show up too.


Dave

Bucho

I totally agree. I've seen stock GTP's run 15.2 - I've also seen one run 13.9X (the fastest freak to date). I put at least 2.5 cars on my bros VQ by 55. The SC allows for so much instant torque. The new 04's are showing to pull as hard to 30mph as some heavily modded GTP's so it'll be fun to see how the next gen GP (uglier IMHO) will fair speedwise.

LordHowe

wait wait, i thought this was www.maxima.org, instead of www.americanhandcraftmanship.com

motectransam

I think the '04 Grand Prix performance hold some promise. 20 extra hp on a heavier car may seem modest but the gains are broad. Plus it has a spicier 3.29:1 diff'l ratio to offset the weight gain. I'm interested in seeing the potential of the new Gen. V supercharger.

Going onto a more general statement, I think Nissan is doing a superb job adapting that VQ-based series across so many vehicles and incorporating so many nice features like coated piston skirts (allows for tighter clearance spec and in turn quieter cold-start NVH) and micropolished bearing surfaces. On the otherhand, GM Powertrain is probably the most intelligent when it comes to setting criteria for maximum cost-benefit.

They say that 70% of people don't care about what's under the hood so long as its reliable and cheap to maintain and drive. The 3800 V6 gets superb fuel efficiency, has a bulletproof reputation, and has one of the highest performance-to cost tradeoffs of a family sedan. The 3800 OHV V6 falls under GM's "high value" powertrain offerings. Low cost also pleases company share holders.

Another 25% or so would be concerned with "High tech & content" powertrains like the new world DOHC V6 GM is making for PFI, SIDI, and PFI-turbo (370hp in prototype form) production applications. The PFI version is in the CTS automatic just coming out. It has dual overhead cam phasing vs. intake only cam phasing in the VQ. The GM system allows for internal EGR and elimination of the conventional EGR system on top of performance and drivability gains. Later Nissan will implement an electromagnetic cam phaser for best-in-class cam phasing response vs. the slower oil/hydraulic control...yet this is intake only.

Finally, there are image powertrains like the LS6 V8 in the Corvette and the 7.5L 500+ hp V12 (will debut soon, and larger than German competition).

Finally GM Powertrain is leading the way with correct decisions on non-IC powertrains and hybrids. While other automakers for the most part are making hybrids in low volume/low versatility vehicles, GM is coming out with hybrids for markets where the versatiliy and high volumes will make a real impact and benefit: 5.3L/hybrid truck line. This is a hybrid that will tow 9400 lbs! Plus accelerate 0-60 mph in nearly 8.0 sec. flat. Given the high truck volume and issues with fuel efficiency in gas-form, these hybrids will truly make a difference. Again they also divide up the hybrid schemes into "aggressive" and "value/mild" based on how many tricks/features are used. Hybrids will spread onto Malibu and a couple smaller GM SUVs soon.

While all automakers are exploring all forms of implementing fuel cell technology, it seems that many are putting too much emphasis on compressed gaseous hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, esp. Toyota's and Honda's show/low production vehicles. In the situation analagous to waiting for other people to mod their cars and make mistakes in an immature aftermarket performance industry of a newly introduced car, GM is standing aside on production right now to use the money saved into developing for their plan to be the first automaker to sell 1 million FC vehicles. Instead of compressed hydrogen, they ae the biggest proponents of gasoline reforming and honestly the most viable despite its compromises for the mid-term.

Finally, in the milder quest to better fuel efficiency with straight gas engines, I think GM (and Mercedes) are doing the right thing as well. Some car makers are downsizing or looking at it as the future wave. Downsizing however has its disadvantages in heavier duty apps. Imagine a truck with a load ranging from driver only no cargo all the way up to 5 passengers and thousands of lbs of cargo. The only solution here is to use a large motor for high capacity but use cylinder deactivation to force the motor into higher throttle valve opening and reduce pumping losses/increase fuel efficiency in low load situations. Combined with hybrid gas-electric, GM trucks will get tremendously good fuel efficiency (later this decade). I can't wait also for cylinder deactivation to be used in sports cars like the Corvette. I predict the lighter more aerodynamic C6 with cylinder deactivation will be able to run 12s dead stock but fuel efficiency numbers I bet will be something like 20 city and 31 highway. Just watch...

motectransam

Sorry for my above post that seems to spotlight GM in a Maxima forum. I have basically made statements admiring Nissan's VQ but I also expanded on this discussion to enlighten on GM's powertrain. It's a forum after all and I think discussions are richer with other topics tied in.

HitManSE

iTrader: (1)

U have the ghetto airbox now? I was hittin mid 15's all night. Most of my runs were like mid 15.6's but th best run I had was 15.57 at like 89.9 something. Ill never break 90mph The track conditions were actually pretty good, like mid 60's elevation I belive is like 1900ft but there was a 10-15mph tail wind as well. So my times were only better due to my new tires and the tailwind. Stupid autotrajic.

vqman

1000 feet

70 degrees out

low baro pressure...

I couldn't get traction off the line either...more due to my driving skills than the tires, but we know the potenzas are the best.

where is firebird?

100+mph traps!? wow.

-vq

HitManSE

iTrader: (1)

Firebird is in Ahwatuke, Arizona. Try checkin out Dave's cardomain site, after last night witnessing a stock 3.5 auto run 15 flat 3 times and then run 14.7 and even 14.6 once with a simple intake mod. I am now a firm beliver in the Ghetto airbox mod.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...=213296&page=3
U basically get a KN panel filter and cut out a piece of the air box.
We all now the potenzas blow but good luck though, with this mod alone u should be able to hit very very low 14;s once u get the driving mastered. Try diff tires if u got some cash layin around, I just got Yoko AVE ES100 and they are 100% better then the OEM tires.

CM02MaxGLE

I Have a 2002 GLE auto and my friend has a 98 GTP auto and we raced the other day twice and I had him clean off the line both times. He was about half the distance of my car behind me and he slowly crept up and we were neck and neck until I took advantage of the semi-auto shifter and pulled out. I also had a full tank of gas vs. his empty tank and I had two people in the car with me, and I took that into account when he was inching up on me. As for the so called "supercharger" in the GTP, I didn't see any special performance so take your friend up on his offer and show him why he should have kept his mouth shut