After spending the time and energy installing used Tokico Blues with H&R springs and being completely dissatisfied with the crappy floaty ride, I went out and bought brand new H&R springs and KYB GR2 struts. For reference, when I bought the Tokico Blues, I was told they only had about 10K on them. Overall they looked to be in very good physical condition, all of the struts still had the orange paper label on them without showing any signs of fading or water damage, etc. I had the new GR2 and H&R strut assemblies setup yesterday and did the install today.

Last night before the new install, I drove a specific route that included local roads with big bumps and some highway driving as well. Today I followed the same exact course with the new struts.

Here is my comparison of the following setups, KYB GR2 and H&R, versus 2K2 SE OEM and versus Tokico Blues with H&R:

OEM:

Felt like a pretty high spring rate, moderately floaty on the highway, kind of stiff over big bumps, but not horribly so. Overall the springs feel underdamped on both compression and rebound. Rear end was prone to "bottoming out" over large dips in the highway.

Tokico Blues and H&R:

Struts felt very floaty on smooth roads, even more so than OEM. Springs were defintely underdamped on relatively smooth roads. Big bumps were somewhat scary because the compression rate on the struts becomes extremely high with fast motion on the strut piston. Big bumps are jarring and unpleasant. This is the worst of both worlds, underdamped springs on both compression and rebound when on smooth roads and excess compression damping over large bumps. While the car was stationary, I could easily get the vehicle to start "rocking" but applying force to any fender.

KYB GR2 and H&R:

This is precisely the ride I hoped I would get. On smooth roads, the struts feel firm, but not "stiff". This means moderate compression damping with moderate rebound damping. Over large bumps the struts do not become excessively firm, but stay comfortable. There is absolutely no floaty feeling regardless of road conditions and big bumps are extremely manageable without feeling like I am going to bend a rim or have my teeth knocked out. The suspension now feels compliant, sporty and comfortable all at once. IMHO this is the setup Nissan should have installed from the factory. Car barely moves when I try to rock it by pushing on a fender.

A couple of other things I noticed with the new struts:

1. Handling is greatly improved versus the OEM setup and the Tokico Blues with H&R.

2. Wheel hop has been reduced significantly. With both the OEM and the Tokico setup on my car I was getting excessive wheel hop in both 1st and 2nd gears (I do not have LSD so this is part of the problem), but with the new struts I am getting just a tiny bit of wheel hop and mostly the wheels are biting in. For reference, I am running OEM 17" rims with 235/45/17 Dunlop SP 5000 All Season tires. My guess is that the struts are providing much better damping of relatively small spring oscillations than either the OEM or the Tokico struts. This may also explain why these struts feel more taught on smooth roads.

3. One last point, although relatively minor, I thought it was worth mentioning: on both the Tokico Blues and the KYB GR2, one of the mounting points on the front struts for the anti-lock brake cable is not correctly designed for 2K2 and later. It looks like earlier 5th gens had a clamp and screw type mount whereas 2K2 and later has a rubber pressure fitting to hold the cable in place. It wasn't that big of a deal to setup, I just had to use "zip ties" to hold the cable in place in one of the two mounting points on the strut.

Conclusion (my .02):

I know everyone raves about the Tokico Blues, but I just don't understand it. I previously had Tokico Illuminas on a Honda Civic and they also behaved the same exact way. Too damn stiff over big bumps and not stiff enough on smooth roads (even on the stiffest settings). Why anyone would choose the Tokico Blues over the GR2 is beyond me.

 

wow, great writeup! thanks! Personally, I think TOkicos SUCK, i had them on my SE-R and I went thru a strut or 2 every year. They were garbage. Im not sure how they would be on the max, but your opinion is excatley what mine was when i had them on my SE-R. I am also going to run the GR-2s, i would like to have the AGX, but i think the GR-2s for me would be better. I am going to be running the TEIN springs, so it will be interesting to compare this ride as well. again, thanks for your input!!

 

Let me know how they turn out once you get them on with the Tiens.

 

i really appreciate the write up as well. this could save someone and myself time, money and frustration. while i know that not everyone has the same experience, the ride you are describing is what i am looking for. if you dont mind me asking, how much did you pick up the gr-2s for?

 

I bought the parts from a local distributor here in NYC. The following prices were before tax:

Front struts: 75
Rear struts: 60

After tax it was about 300.

Edit (4-13-03::10:48Eastern)

Just noticed there is a group deal going for these with a better price . . .

 

alright, thanks again for the heads up.

 

Mr ABS,
Excellent write up. You have given the feel for what I am looking for since I am not really planning to do much more than normal driving. I do have a question though: did you happen to get familiar with the GR-2's and Eibach Pros? This is the set up I am going with.

 

See I was scared to get the GR2s since all anyone talks about are the Tokico Blues. Well I have the GR2s with Maxspeeds and I"m really glad now I did it.

 

I am very sorry, but I do not have any experience with the Eibach setup per se. What I have read about the Eibach's is that they have a higher spring rate than the H&R's, that they may cause the car to slope/angle toward the front a little (more drop in front than back) and that they actually drop more than Eibach says they do. I do not know how they will ride. Post your results and let us know how they ride.

 

thanks for the write up, it was very useful. at least now i have made up my mind on what struts to get. springs are a different story.

 

thanks for a write up. i have H&R and GR2 sitting ready for install. i'm so glad I went with GR2's.

 

I have to agree that TOKS are not what everyone raves about, but my experience is that they are a little better than stock. I was on toks and H&R, but do to the combination of the crappy roads, and the toks inability to dampen the ride, I had to go back to stock springs. I am currently on toks and stock springs, and while it is better than stock, it is still not what you would expect from a aftermarket shock!!

It took me forever to decide between toks and gr2s!! It seems like I always make the wrong decision!! If anything, I learned that suspension tuning is not always easy!

 

You didn't happen to run the KYB GR2's with the stock springs? That is the setup I would be interested in.

 

I thought about it as well. It will definitely improve your handling. I remember a post. Someone tried it and saw some improvement. but since you are modding your suspension, why not do it all at once. you save money on labor. H&R gives you a very small drop and improve your handling while not sacrificing ride comfort.

 

You are correct, I did not run the GR2 with OEM springs, however, based upon my observations of the performance of the various shocks and springs I did test, I can safely state that the GR2 will radically improve the performance of the vehicle with the OEM springs. I would anticipate you would experience the following:

1. Greatly reduced or possibly complete removal of the floaty feeling.

2. Much better wheel to ground contact over bumps, both large and small.

3. Improved handling in the twisties due to better damping.

4. Rear end should be less prone to "getting upset" over bumps.

5. More "road feel" on relatively smooth roads.

6. Small bumps will be more noticable.

7. Softer ride over really big bumps in the road (OEM struts get stiffer like Tokicos but GR2's don't).

If you must keep your stock ride height, I definitely think the GR2's are an incredible option. They offer very good performance at a decent price point.

In case anyone was wondering, no, I don't work for KYB or sell any kind of car products. I'm just trying to help out fellow .org members.

 

Ralph the ride ive got right now is great GR2 front and stock back(till the rears come in) and eibach springs, like i said last time we talked its firm but not too too firm no floaty feel on smooth roads and not to harsh on bumps(Im in louisiana, i well know about crapy roads). I had eibachs and toks on my svt contour and it was crap! yes i did a couple of solo2 races with that set up but it was too floaty for the sharp turns...

IMO the GR2s are the best replacment shock period!







besides modified agx's

 

do you have any pics?

 

I am sorry, I don't have any pics. I do have a digital camera, but I'm missing the USB cable, so it really does me no good. If I can get some pics loaded, I will. Plenty of other people on the .org have pics of the Maxima with H&R springs . . .

 

Where in NYC did you get these prices? I am willing to drive up for those prices assuming I can get it for the same price as you.

 

Sorry for the delay. I got them from a place called Arch Auto. They have about 8 stores in the metro NY area. At least 2 stores are in Queens. You should be able to get them GR2's for that price assuming that they have changed the price in the last month or so.

 

Buy a compact flash or smart media card reader. The data transfer rate will be much faster than USB. I am also very interested in seeing pics as well. Do you have any pics of the GR2's before the install?

 

Great write up!! Thanks ABS!!

I'm trying to replace my front pair struts with GR-2 and keep the stock spring. I contacted tons of retail stores and no one can confirm that KYB GR-2 will fit my 02 GLE.

Are the GR-2 a perfect fit to your 02' without additional mod? Thanks.

 

They should fit no problem. They make them for 5th gen maximas period. If you are going to replace the front you might want to do the rears as well. I only say that because relative to the front, the back could float around a bit.

 

they fit perfect......I have the KYB GR-2 and Maxspeed combo on my car...check my sig pic and homepage for more pix

 

Does the struts part number for 2k2 same as for 2k1?
Any idea where to get the best price? Thanks.

 

they do have the same part number because i just received a bundle shipment from the group deal and all the part numbers for the kyb gr-2 are the same front and rear.

 

The KYB GR2 for the 5th gen should work just fine the the 2K2 or 2K3. The only possible "issue" with the install is that the anti-lock brake cable has to be mounted with zip ties on the GR2 struts. The 2000 and 2001 struts used a bracket and bolt to hold the cable in place whereas the 2002 and 2003 uses a pressure fit rubber grommet. Unfortunately, the grommet doesn't fit the older setup which is what the GR2's have. I suspect that down the road KYB will come out with a slightly varied GR2 strut for the 2K2 and 2K3 cars, but until then these are the best we can do.

Having said all that, everything else is a perfect fit and two nylon zip ties per side hold the ABS cable in place without any problem.

Good luck!

 

So how would these GR-2 compare to retrofitted AGX for a 5th gen. anyone have a clue or idea?
Roger