I apprecaite the actual data...

I've been modding cars a long time. My other car is a modded 95 Talon TSi running low 12s. I've been around tracks and dynos since I was 16 (I'm 36 now).

I've dynoed enough to know that without changing a darn thing on a car, each dyno run can vary +/- 5%. The Turbo&High tech performace dyno chart isn't very compelling becuase the gain is in the expected noise level (4.5%). Over at http://www.dsmtalk.com, some guys have done their very own independant testing of hyper grounding and some actually lost power. But we're talking +/- 3%, so it's in the noise - inconclusive. One poster tried different grounding points but variences were in the error range of +/- 3%, it just wasn't worth it.

Suppose hyper grounding was able to get better electrical flow to the injectors. What does that accomplish? Aboslutely nothing, the ECU is just going to shorten the injector pulse width based on what it sees from the 02 sensor and MAS. If anything, you'd make the car burn more rich and LOSE power.

Helping spark is always a great thing especially with forced induction. When I put a bigger turbo on my Talon I had a big problem with missing under higher boost (I run as much as 16 PSI with a FP big t28). I put a set of copper core plug wires on, problem solved. Stock wires have so much resistance built in, all the grouding in the world isn't going to make for a stronger spark.

I'd love to hear any other suggestions as to what hyper grounding actually improves. I'm not talking about the "my car shifts smoother" variety. I mean things like it gets more volts to the fuel pump, etc, then go from there. The only speculation I could dig up were ignition and injectors, possibly fuel pump. MAYBE ignition, I'll give it that, but thinking this is going to improve injection in anyway is completely ignoring how the ECU works.

As for the fuel pump, this isn't going to help a thing unless you've come up with a way to force so much air into your motor that the injectors can't keep up and it's leaning out harsh, i.e. forced induction.

Some of the write-ups I've read, I was waiting to read a claim their boss gave them a bigger raise, they had better ejaculation, and their cholesterol went down since they hyper grounded. Smoother shifts???!!! give me a break.

 

It cost about 20.00 lol do you think anyone is going to waste time trying to prove a point by testing this to ISO 9001 standards. LMFAO give me a break this is basically a free mod why make such a big fuss about it. If it doesn't work for you just don't do it most of us are content with our butt dyno.

 

thread cleaned up and reopened...

 

Sorry I argued with itdood with a sexual analogy.
That argument got this thread closed for awhile.
MY BAD! I went to Electrical Parts Outlet in
Houston and bought six feet of 4 gague wire,
8 goldplated 4 gague ring connectors and a
heavy duty wire cutter for $29. Added 2 more
wires to my 2000 Max and 2 more to G35.

 

Hey guys, over the week-end I made my own HyperGround kit, it turn out to be very good quality cable and copper connector, I have pics but have no clue as how to post it. I even post an offer on the group deal here is the link: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=246310

Also if I can find someone who willing to tell me the cable lenght for 2k2 and 2k3 as well as 4 th gen, then I'm willing to give a free HyperGround cable kit to the volunteer.

If someone is willing to post the pics I can send it tonight.

Cheers

AA

 

Hmm, well, just did the first phase of hypergrounding tonight. I went in order from alternator bracket to valve cover, then from valve cover to battery, then from battery to a ground stud around the fusebox near the battery.

Results:
Alternator to valve cover. Did that first, then started the engine. Didn't really notice a difference.

Valve cover to battery. Hm, POSSIBLY a difference, but it might have been placebo... nothing to brag about though.

Removed the battery and tried to remove the (rusted) bolt holding a ground strap to the chassis right at the base of the air cleaner. The head broke off the bolt. Wow, no surprises there, as the bolt was pretty rusted. So I unbolted the fusebox from the frame and managed to bring that ground strap to another ground strap closer to the headlights. Removed that bolt, and reinserted it with its original ground, the other ground I removed, and hooked a relatively short section of 4ga ground cable all stacked underneath that one bolt. Reinstalled the battery.

Here's where I started noticing differences, HOWEVER, after hooking up my Auterra OBD-II Dyno-Scan, I discovered that the Long Term Fuel Trim values were at 0.00%. It took me a while to disassemble all that junk and reassemble it... maybe the ECU reset during that period? I'm assuming so.
Started the engine. Didn't notice too much of a difference, maybe a little quieter though. I let the car sit there for about 10 minutes running, so it heated back up to full temp. I noticed through the Auterra's General Info screen, that some of the values near the bottom said "I" instead of "C" (e.g. Oxygen Sensor, Catalyst, Components), etc. This is also where I noticed the long-term fuel trim values were at 0%. One change of interest, is that idle showed a MAFS reading of around 2.40-2.50g/s, whereas previously it would always be somewhere between 2.30-2.36 or so. Idle RPM's about the same as usual. I don't think a reset ECU can cause an increased MAF sensor reading... that would HAVE to be an electrical change somewhere.

Road test--Excellent. If there was any more power, I wouldn't have noticed it, 'cause this engine puts out plenty as it is. There was one difference I noticed, and it was VERY noticeable--DEFINITELY NOT a placebo effect. The car doesn't "jerk" as much when I mis-time the clutch/gas pedal while shifting gears (I'm a newbie at driving clutch, FYI). It does "jerk" if I make it, but the "jerkiness" is MUCH smoother than before. For me, this is HUGE, as the "jerkiness" of this car is a HUGE pain in the *** while I'm in stop'n'go driving during my commute.

After driving to subway and back (mmm, chicken pizziola), I hooked up the Auterra again. Long Term Fuel Trim for both banks was still at 0.00%... shouldn't this adjust at least a little during a 15 minute trip? MAFS reading at idle was also around 2.40-2.50 like before. Some of those values in the General Info screen which said "I" before, now say "C". I think Catalyst, Oxygen Sensor and something else still say "I". I'll have to bust out my Auterra's PDF and see what that means. Hopefully it's nothing bad, 'cause I have a Maryland emissions inspection due by 10/29.

In conclusion, my observations may have been entirely caused by the ECU reset, but I believe the hypergrounding has something to do with it (especially the MAFS readings). I'll have to see after a couple days if the car becomes "jerky" again, and check the fuel trim values once in a while.

I think I'm gonna have another (longer) trip tonight just to get a second feel at it.

 

There we go--took a 40 mile trip.
Long Term Fuel Trim is back to normal (-7.0% bank 1, -7.8% bank 2), all the status indicators in General Info read "C". MAFS reading at idle is roughly 2.44 grams/sec. Car still drives better (easier shifting), and the car seemed to pull a little better in casual highway driving in 5th gear... but it's also cooler outside... (kinda unusual that I could come off the MD-140 -> MD-97N ramp in 5th gear and pull against a car that was already on that road)

 

I was poking around in the engine bay looking for ground points and noticed that there possibly a large ground on the starter.... could this be a possible ground point??? It's such a mess of wires I could be looking st something totaly different. Any thoughts.

 

Did you notice that the car starts easier? BTW, found 2 factory
grounds I had not noticed before, one in front of the battery
connected to the fender and the other behind the battery. Both
seem to come off a thick wire harness coming out of the labeled
boxes. I wired the one in front of the battery directly to the
battery last weekend and will put the one behind the battery
into the loop tonight. I know itdood will like this one:
The car does "seem" to drive smoother, doesn't it?

 

I would say that any electrical component of the engine is a
canidate for grounding! Go for it if you can reach it. BTW where
is the starter located?

 

The "large ground" on the starter is probably the negative battery cable
I didn't really notice the car start any faster... my car starts pretty fast as it is. The commute to work this morning was a little better, knowing I can upshift with less jerkiness... really helps when the morning commute is worse than usual (ugh, !@#$in' I-695)

I've seen about 3 grounds around the battery area, one between it and the air cleaner (stud broke off, I had to relocate that to another one), one very close to the headlights (but sitting vertical), which is where I relocated that 1st ground, and I think there's one in front of the battery very close to the headlights... haven't done anything with that one.

I'm going to proceed to hook up those 2 ground studs on the passenger side (near the right headlight) to the valve cover & stud, and extend one over to the relay box (if there are any ground studs underneath). That'll be Phase 2 of my hypergrounding
I think I'll have to order some more cable & connectors if I keep doing it like this

 

When I bought my G35 with the five speed automatic transmission,
I noticed that at slow speeds (between 1 an 10 mph) the car
was pretty "jerky". As soon as I added the hyperground wires,
including one to the transmission, the "jerkyness" changed to
smoothness! Have not yet done the Maxima's transmission yet.
I will need to put it up on a jack to find a good place, but plan
on doing it.

 

Cool. Mine's stick, BTW, so the "jerkiness" I experience comes from the clutch grabbing with the RPMs slightly higher or lower than they should be for the next gear... (it's sorta inevitable, since holding the clutch pedal down waiting for the RPMs to drop takes too long, thus I give it a little gas while the clutch pedal's coming out so the process becomes smooth)

 

Mine is an auto 03 and is located as you look and the engine, on the right, almost directly on top of the transmission, right under the MAF tube. If you remove the air box assy. you can see it clearly. I can't really tell which one is the ground because both connections appear to be copper. How can you tell? Thanks

 

 

Huh, weird, wonder if I have that on mine... (never noticed under there as mine's got the stock airbox on)

 

DUMB ? where is the ECU? If I looked hard enough I could figure it out but I'm not near my car.

 

Don't think it really matters which one is the factory ground.
The picture shows a great canidate for a Hyper-ground wire
to be attached to. If that were my car, I would have a Hyper-ground
connected to that point, then to the battery. Remember, the
Hypergrounds are all linked togeather, terminating at the
battery negative.

 

Hey polo... whats up with that mean looking battery and cables. Where did you get tehm and how hard were they to install?

 

I'm sure that one of the starter terminals is a positive. They are a few inches away from each other and run horizontialy and one has a rubber boot protecting it... I would presume that the one with the boot is the positive... anyone?

 

Battery - Optima Yellow Top - dual post. side mount is my OEM harness. top mount is only for my system.

Cables - stinger expert series 0awg and 4awg

Terminals - Stinger Expert series plain and digitals terminals

0awg is a ***** to crimp. takes A LOT of work to get it to stay. 4awg is so much easier.

i still have abot 80 feet of 4awg left so if anyone local wants any, i'll sell it to you for what i paid (~$1.25/foot) and if you're not local, i'll have to throw shipping, but it's cheaper than ebay so that's good.

 

polo, you have a 6 speed !!!!!!!!
your tranny groung is different then us autos

 

i'm sorry to hear that you have an auto...

 

Can someone just clarify...

Where can you get the cables and connectors if you want to do it yourself? Best gage wire?

Where can you buy it all assembled?

Thanks

 

http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/lightningaudiowire.html

SQ4-R 4 AWG SQ2 Power & Ground Wire - 1862 Strands- Liquid Red $1.49
SQ4-B 4 AWG SQ2 Power & Ground Wire - 1862 Strands - Liquid Blue $1.49
SQ4-P 4 AWG SQ2 Power & Ground Wire - 1862 Strands - Liquid Purple $1.49
SQ4-C 4 AWG SQ2 Power & Ground Wire - 1862 Strands - Liquid Crystal Silver $1.49


http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/light...terminals.html

LSSRT4 4AWG Platinum Crimp Ring Terminals - 3/8" mounting hole w/ covers (4-pack)Out of Stock $4.95 $3.99

 

I did the passenger-side fusebox/relay ground to valve cover last night, not sure if I noticed any difference though... MAF reading at idle on a warm engine was around 2.55g/s this time. I am curious as to whether that means much, or if it's just due to temperature differences (after-dark temps last night and the night before were similar, so I'm not too inclined to believe temperature diff's caused the different readings...)

I'd have to say that the biggest difference I've noticed was going from driver-side fusebox grounds to the battery, and battery to valve cover. The rest I'm just not sure about. If someone tries an ECU grounding and it yields noticeable, reproducable results, I'll try that (ECU->valve cover).

As for "power", I'd have to say the "butt-dyno" reports some more power (seems each gear can wind up a little faster, and I've especially noticed more torque in 5th gear around 2K RPM while cruising), but we all know how unscientific that is

 

4 gauge wire (preferably audio power/ground cable, as it's very flexible due to the tiny strands used), some are pedantic about using PURE COPPER connectors, I used whatever they had at a local store (6ga connectors, fit a little tight, but Baynesville didn't have 4ga), while some people use gold-plated (easier to find I guess since they're often sold in the same places audio cable is sold)
I say 4ga is good because even if it's not pushing much current now, later on when the existing grounding corrodes it will be...

 

Last night I discovered that there exists two factory grounds behind
and in front of the 2K Max battery. The one behind is at the level
of the bottom of the battery and the one in front is connected to
the fender behind the headlamp. I removed the battery from the Max.
Then connected these 2 grounds togeather. Added another wire
to the rear battery ground and brought it up to battery negative.
I believe these 2 grounds are coming off the thick wire bundles
from both of the labeled fuse? boxes. I wish I knew where the
ECU was located on the 2000 Max......
I continue to search for more grounding points!

 

Great grounding points cato... I'm begining to think that the ECU is inside the cabin of the car some where, most likely under the drivers dash somewhere

 

Yes I believe the ECU is inside the dashboard somewhere.

cato- I'll have to piggyback those off the existing ground I have near the fender. If they have thick wire bundles they may be a good point

 

I think I have the 2000 Maxima grounded pretty well now.
This weekend I jacked the car up on the drivers side to gain
access the the transmission. Found the perfect ground point
on a bracket attached near the bottom of the tranny. I had
to remove the the splash cover that protects the engine/trans
from road stuff to get at the bolt, but that was pretty easy.
I ran this wire up to the right side valve cover ground point.
I also discovered a very interesting ground point on the drivers
side strut tower housing, on the front side facing the battery.
There is some other ground at this point, so I ran a wire
from the right side valve cover to it.
Here they are:
1) from factory ground in front of dip stick (#1 alternator?)
to factory chassis ground next to washer filler neck
(#2 fusebox/relay harness grounds).
The 2 existing chassis grounds were both grounded to
the Hyper-ground at point #2.
2) from chassis ground at washer filler neck (#2 fusebox/relay
harness grounds) to upper intake manifold grounds left
of the oil filler cap #3.
The two existing grounds here were also combined with the
Hyperground wire at point #3
3) from #3 to left side valve cover hole (#4).
4) from #4 to battery negative (#7)
5) from #4 to engine block ground opposite the oil dip stick(#6)
6) from #4 to the right side valve cover hole #5
7) from #5 to the transmission (#8)
8) from #5 to the throttle body (#9)
9) from #5 to the drivers front strut tower ground (#10)
10) from front battery ground (#11)to rear battery ground(#12)
11) from #12 rear battery ground to battery negative(#7)

The car dives grrrrrreatttt!

 

I haven't put any new ones in, but the differences noticed before (less jerkiness) have slowly disappeared... car still revs smoother than before though. Guess the reduced jerkiness was due to the ECU reset.

I'm interested in the #6 (engine block) and #9 (throttle body) grounds, though...

 

Hey Cato... any new pics. Did you loop them all back to the battery? I'm still trying to visualise the whole thing and some pistures would really help. Thanks!!

 

I don't have a digital camera yet...I't on my wish list for Christmas
if anyone would like to give me a present. 2 of my wires terminate
at battery negative, all other wires are in a loop that has one of
those batttery negative wires in it.

 

you mean actually on the battery negative POST ?

or sharing the same ground to the frame ?

 

The actual battery negative post.

 

how did you do that ?

 

I connected 2 of my points to the battery negative post; the ring terminals fit nicely under the head of the small clamp-bolt. (have 1 from valve cover to battery, and 1 from fusebox grounds near the battery to the battery post)

 

here's a website that tells you loaction of ecu's on different cars (including maximas)
http://www.jetchip.com/imports/ecuchart.htm#Nissan

 

Attached is a pic of my G35 with 12 Hyper-ground wires.
Not all are visible. This is the same engine as the 2003 Maxima[IMG]/users/berry/src/engineviewfullE.jpg[/IMG]
How do I attach a jpg image file to the forum?