According to Danny (I've been contact w/him through emails), he said that if your ECU doesn't have the TSB done, the TS upgrade will take care of that too. He said that they download the latest TSB from Nissan's website and updated the ECU w/the info along with their remapping the software.

 

That's new to me and apparently since him and I talked, since he really didn't have a clue what TSBs were.

I guess that's possible, however if you don't have the "updated" part like the MAF or 02, that could cause problems if you receive the flash that includes the MAF TSB.

I'll have to ask about that.

 

updated O2? Was that part of the TSB? When I brought my car for the hestitation TSB's. The dealer, in the receipt, had changed the MAF to a newer one but they told me that they couldn't flashed my ECUs. So, Danny told me that they can update the TSB by downloading from Nissan's website and perform their upgrading at the same time. Do let me know if he said otherwise since I am going to get this done before January.

 

I just had the Lack of Power TSB done, no others.

 

No...no. I was just using the MAF and 02 as EXAMPLES, since that's what I commonly hear about when the ECU gets an update for a TSB.

Can you check the DATE when Danny told you that? If it's later then my email, then most likely that's something they've figured out recently or at least after him and I talked.

Call Danny and ask to know 100% for sure. HE is the man with all the knowledge about what they can and can't do. I'm just trying to figure it all out still.

 

just trust me get the ecu and it will take care of all your problems tsb or what not

 

THAT right there means the new MAF can work withOUT the ECU update, so even if the TS ECU upgrade doesn't include the latest TSB update, it SHOULD work. Work meaning, no SES light, not that it fixed whatever problem the TSB was after.

 

yesterday, 12-10-03

 

That's definitely more recent then my emails.

They've apparently figured it out now.

Good...I was worried about that.

 

Below is what he'd written:

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:10 PM

"Hmm.. If dealer can't flash the ECU, there might be something wrong with communication line between the OBDII port and your ECU. It doesn't mean your ECU is bad or have corrupted data. How does your car drive now with the new MAF? We should have the latest software update (with the lastest TSB) when we flash your ECU. We download them from Nissan's website.

The procedures will be the same but program will be slighly different depending on what you have you on your car. "

Danny.

 

Not sure how that works, but that's GREAT news. Gives people out of warranty or who hate going to the dealer a way to get TSBs done themselves.

I'll have to ask Danny how that works next time we talk.

 

So does anyone know where I can get a spare ECU at a good price?

 

That is partially correct, TS doesnt fix anything. But, all the ECUs that went to Japan as donors as a prerequisite, had to have all TSBs and Updates complete or they wouldt take it as a donor. Therefore, when someone gets their ECU flased by TS, THEY DO in fact get all the TSBs and Updates because it is essentially the image of my (or someone else's ECU for 6spds) ECU with the NVIS/NATS part cut out. They basically overlay that image onto the customers ECU and send it back to them. You were partially correct in that TS does not fix anything, but by having fully updated donors, they are in effect fixing peoples ECUs (albeit in a modified fashion). Anyone with any questions PM or IM me.

-Mike

 

So now TS has revisions of their flash?

If so, let's use Version numbers for instance....

1) The Original First ECU for the 2002-2003 came to TS with Nissan Version 1.5 software.
2) The ECU left TS and went to Techtom.
3) Techtom extracted the Nissan Version 1.5 software from the unit.
4) Techtom zipped up the raw Nissan Version 1.5 software and e-mailed it to TS.
5) The ECU returned to TS with Nissan Version 1.5 software on it.
6) TS unzips the raw Nissan Version 1.5 software and starts locating points.
7) TS makes changes and tests the Nissan Version 1.5 software. This step repeats until all tweaked settings are learned. TS calls the final release TS Version 2.0
8) TS makes a note of all changes that they made to the ECU for future reference
9) TS completely replaces Nissan Version 1.5 software with TS Version 2.0 software
10) TS sends the ECU with TS Version 2.0 software to the customer
11) The customer enjoys his ECU with TS Version 2.0 software

Now.... that's the original process for the original car. But how about when I, Joe Customer, send in my ECU. Here's what happens:

1) Joe Customer sends his ECU to TS with Nissan Version 2.3 on it.
2) TS flashes the ECU with the TS Version 2.0 software.
3) Joe Customer receives his TS Version 2.0 ECU and enjoys.

But... according to the latest posts... TS is now capable of applying TSBs to the images. Here is how that happens:

1) TS extracts Nissan Version 1.5 image
2) TS installs the TSB ECU update, which updates the ECU to Nissan Version 2.3
3) TS then refers to their notes and re-applies the changes made in step 8 above to the new Nissan Version 2.3 ECU
4) TS labels this version as TS Version 2.1

Now... the question remains... if I have a TS Version 2.0 ECU (which was a patched version of Nissan Version 1.5) and I need the patch from Nissan, what should I do?

My options are:
1) Have Nissan perform the TSB.
1a) This could possibly replace the TS Version 2.0 software with the Nissan Version 2.3 software.
1b) This could be the same as TS Version 2.1
2) Send the ECU to TS for re-flashing
2a) This would yeild you TS Version 2.1 software, which includes the TSB update
3) Live without the TSB

This last section is still yet to be determined. The only way we'd know for sure is to have TS flash their TS Version 2.0 software with Nissan's TSB update (Nissan Version 2.3 software) and see if it replaces any TS changes. Until then.... we don't know how the TSB updates will/will not affect the TS software.

 

Also... if Joe Customer had Nissan Version 1.1 on his ECU and sends it in to be flashed, he will receive the LATEST TS Version. If this latest version was TS Version 2.1, then he not only gets all the changes that TS made, but also all the changes that Nissan made between Nissan Version 1.1 and Nissan Version 2.3.

 

So ... if you DON'T already have a TSB on your ECU, but TS DOES have the TSB, when your ECU returns, it will have the TSB applied.

But ... if you have a TSB that TS DOES NOT have, then when your ECU returns, the TSB will NOT be applied.

This is why Danny and the rest of TS were investigating how to apply TSBs to the ECU. They have to be able to apply a TSB to their software in case Nissan issues a critical update that affects the overall performance/safety of the vehicle.

And THAT is why they now have the ability to get the TSB updates directly from Nissan. This way, they don't have to send an ECU to Japan every time a TSB comes out.

 

What happens when you have the new code for the new MAF send back in your ECU, but you don't have the new MAF on your car?

 

In every instance of a Nissan update, that depends entirely on how Nissan wrote the updated code. If Nissan wrote the code so that it was backwards-compatible, then it would be ok.

In the event that the Nissan updated code is not backwards-compatible, TS would have the responsibility of finding out if you, Joe Customer, had the update performed or not. They would then flash the TS Version that either had or didn't have the Nissan update included.

As a side note, almost all Nissan updates are backwards compatible with the older parts. It's just that the older parts are not guarateed to perform as well as the newer parts. But it doesn't mean that they will not work at all.

In the instance of the MAF updated, it could even prevent your MAF from failing in the first place.

I know for a fact that the MAF code is backwards-compatible. I've had a 22680-6N200 and a 22680-6N201 MAF on my car with the new code. All 3 MAFs work with the same updated code.

Also, all 3 MAFs will work with the original code that came with the 22680-6N200 sensor. It's just not guarateed not to kill the MAF over time.

 

look2me40 - www.car-parts.com

E55AMG2 - Maybe for the 2K2s, but for 2-ECUs I've sent they didn't.

studman - Very nicely put together. I have a couple questions, but I'm sure they'll be brought up over time. No need to worry until it happens.

 

Ok, so maybe I missed it. When I received my ECU back last week...what the hell did it have on it (besides the specific things Danny and I spoke about? )

 

Just to add to the confusion about what ECU reflashing does or does not do, Dinan, Hartge and/or Schnitzer ECU upgrades to Bimmers re-map the timing & ignition curves and if you later reflash the ECU at a dealer because of a TSB, the upgraded Dinan/Hartge/Schnitzer mapping remains in the ECU intact. I know 'cause I've been there.

It's all a matter of the the TSB code is written; is is written to update the whole load of information on the ECU (highly unlikely, IMHO) or is it written to change just the specific offending code that needs the TSB...

And that's what I think Nissan is doing, I cannot for the life of me imagine they are reflashing every single parameter because that could cause backwards-compatibility issues....

 

Ice- It all depends upon the donor ECU, whoever donated their ECU for the 2k/2k1s should have been completely updated. If they were, then any and all updates made prior to Techtom/Technosquare cracking that ECU will be on there. If the donor was not fully updated, or was some junkyard ECU from a wrecked car, then the TS ECUs are not fully updated and they will have to fix their software to accomodate these updates and flashes.

Galo- Dinan and the like used to actually solder on a new chip, not flash the unit and send them back. Also BMW and the like dont store the data the same way that nissan does. There are separate processors for each of the control mechanisms (fuel mapping and timing) therefore, when they flash TSBs to their ECUs, they arent altering the image as with the nissan they are only changing a map or a file. This is why nothing happens. TS, i believe, has figured out how to update the code to accomodate the new TSBs without disturbing what they have already done.

 

I'm not sure what chip is in the 2K2-2K3. If someone has a picture or know, please post it.

I do know for the 2K-2K1, its a 40 Mhz risc chip, with a 512KB flash rom section, which is where nissan's data is stored.

The cleanest, and most trouble free way for TS to do this would be to identify the important things (fuel/ignition TP scale, maps, K) in the ROM file along with their addresses. Once they know this, all they would have to do is download a new customer's running rom, edit the proper addresses, maps, rev limit value and upload/overwrite the old rom. If you take your car to nissan and they update the ECU for whatever reasons, the possibility of overwriting a portion or all of the TS changes is high.

Something else to keep in mind and it may seem a minimal but the flash rom has an estimated 100 time flash capability. Estimated, being the important word if you've ever worked with EPROM devices, you'll know what i mean (100 avg and the variance is usually big)

The problem is we do not know the process TS uses, we should ask just to be sure, but this may be part of their intellectual property.

Studman
The MAF may be compatible, but the only way to truly tell would be to know the electrical characteristics in terms of voltage and max air flow along with the VQ table they are correlated to in the ROM.


water-cooled twin-turbo power plant dreams
SHIFT_woosh

 

I have a few questions about this procedure, i.e. reflashing of the ECU's EPROM.

1. Isn't this just like reflashing the BIOS on your computers motherboard? Meaning when the MB manufacturer releases a new BOIS file even if it makes just a few minor changes to the code the whole EPROM is erased and reflashed?

2. Can you just reflash certain addresses on the EEPROM without changing any of the other stored address data?

3. When Nissan releases TSB ECU code to be flashed onto the EPROM does the new file contain all of the previous changes like BIOS updates? Or does each update just deal with just the relevant data regarding the TSB issue?

4. Is the security info and engine management data stored on the same EPROM in different data blocks or are there 2 EPROM’s for this.

Lastly, TS has said they can download Nissan's TSB patch files from a Nissan web site. Can't they just incorporate the relevant data based on the model year and options you have? Then you'd just need to make sure you have the correct MAF and not have to go to the dealer at all for the TSB's that involve the ECU data.

 

1a) Yes
1b) We don't know if the entire image is replaced or not. In this case, it is assumed that it is not.

2) See 1b.

3) See 1b.

4) There is no question #4.

5) Call Danny at TS to answer this question.

Lastly) Call Danny at TS to answer this question.

 

studman did u get dyno and how is the car running?

 

I'm set to dyno on Monday, but that's assuming that my tranny is fixed. The tranny broke on me last Friday night. It won't engage 6th gear at all. Nissan is replacing it under the powertrain warranty. I don't have the car in my possession, so I can't get the dynos until I get the car back. If it's not back to me by Monday, I'll post up the dynos when I get the car back and can get a dyno made.

P.S. The tranny problem is NOT related to the TS ECU update. I was having problems with it BEFORE the ECU was ever sent off, but couldn't get NNA to approve the replacement until just recently.

 

I can't wait for dynos! I have ca$h money sittin around for either the TS ECU or Hotshot Headers (hopefully they'll be out failry soon)

 

so studmans dyno is tomorrow huh? cant wait to see the results
BTW: are ya doin it with the headers still on or have they been removed?

 

Sorry about the long delay in updates. E55AMG2 dyno'd his car on Saturday, but we're sad to say that the outcome wasn't good. He's been having problems with his plugs and coils lately. The dyno proved it. He's taking the car in to have them changed in the next week or so. The ECU was retarding the timing due to severe pinging. We can assure you that it's not the ECU that's causing the pinging. Once it's back from the dealer, we'll dyno the car again and get the real numbers.

As for my car, it's in the shop. It's been in the shop since Monday of last week. The tranny completely froze up on it. I've been having problems (even before I did the ECU update) with it. NNA is working on getting us a tranny, but I have a feeling that a new TSB is coming down the line with regards to the tranny. I visited the dealer last week and talked to the service manager about it. He said that they (the dealer) have ordered the tranny, but NNA says that it's "not available". So he's calling NNA tomorrow to find out what the scoop really is.

I'm going on vacation from Monday until Christmas Eve, but I'll let everyone know what the deal is when I get back.

Please.... please.... please.... do NOT think that these problems are caused by the TS ECU. There is NO indication that they are, and there IS every indication that they are caused by defective parts from the factory.

More to follow soon...

 

Thanks for the update. I'm looking to send in my ECU in the beginning of January.

Juice, what are your impressions?

 

wow that sucks it seems everytime one of you guys dyno something else screws up. Good luck and I hope everything gets sorted out.

 

Actually, the plugs/coils were bad before I sent in the ECU, the before dyno proved that. The after dyno showed that the plugs/coils are getting worse. I need to get the car to the dealer ASAP and see whats wrong. Also, I wanna get a compression test to see if the pinging and the severe lean condition (which was a problem as of 11000 miles and was fixed with NTB03-023 at 20000 miles) damaged the engine. Hopefully, its a simple fix (unlikely). Only time will tell... I will keep you posted.

 

I got a call from the dealer today saying that the tranny is in route to them. They expect it to arrive before Christmas Eve and will install it when it arrives.

Also, I am having them perform the new RECALL on the Crankshaft sensors that Nissan just released. The TSB that goes with the RECALL is available on my web-site.

When I return from my trip, I'll get the car back and get the dynos done. Hopefully this will be before the end of the new year, but we'll see when I get back from vacation.

BTW... Merry Christmas to all of you fellow .org'ers

 

I sent E55AMG2 a PM because I have the EXACT SAME problem on my 03SE. Along with a few other org member. No SES light, no blown MAF (dealer replaced it 3 weeks ago) still ping like a SOB, it's not the gas, had the nephew of a friend who is a nissan tech say that it's a "carbon bulid up" issue (no flames please), are the coils on a brand new car bad? ( thought it was on 2000 models) what the f**k is up! Anybody want to buy a slightly used max? Anyway, TS told me to get a air flow check (not likely around here), a few pages back i remember taht TS said that there wasn't to much that can be done to "tweak" the low rpms which is where I've got the problem. WOT is GREAT!!! I put around a small town and don't go WOT very often. I know... major venting going on but this frustrating as he!!. ANY input WILL be greatly appreciated. Thank you and hope your holidays are enjoyable and pleasant.

 

Mine Pings all over, mostly under heavy throttle load. Also, at idle, it misses and shakes alot. This seems to only be getting worse as time passes. Im goin to the dealership today to set up an appt for the recall to be fixed, as well as a laundry list of other issues not related to performance. I will keep you posted.

 

I got my car back from the dealership... with a new transmission. The only bad part about it is that they replaced the clutch bearing as well, which means that I have to be nice to the car for the next 500 city miles. Once the bearing is worn down and the clutch is not slipping anymore, I'll hit the dyno. It should be in the next few weeks at the latest.

 

going to dyno on the 31 i will let everyone know what my hp is with ts ecu

 

Wonder why it's just the '02 6-Speed that seems to keep failing...

 

Any update w/the dyno yet?