halcyon

This one's for the archives. Hope this helps out someone with the same problem.

Ok, here's how the story goes...

Back in summer 2002 my car began this intermittent pinging problem. I noticed it after the 30k mile service, maybe simply because I was paying more attention to engine noise after the service. Anyway, I'd get knocking most consistently shortly after start up in the morning. Didn't matter if I let the car warm up, it would always happen when I hit the gas hard. Once the car had been driven around a bit it would mostly go away. The pinging was light -- the car wouldn't buck, gas mileage was fine, and performance was fine. I never got the MIL and no codes were thrown. Once the car had been running for a while, I'd only get a few rattles on high-revving hard shifts and on other random occasions when the engine was under load.

Did some research here on the forum and checked out the FSM. Found out the ignition coils were prone to failing. My car was under warranty at the time so I just took it to the closest dealer and suggested the ignition coils, but left it in their so-called capable hands. Long story short, 3 weeks and a few trips later, I had a new alternator. I didn't question their solution, though it didn't make an ounce of sense. They updated the ECM software and reset the self-learning program. The car went back to it's default timing; I could feel the reduced pick up and the pinging was gone.

A couple weeks later, the self-learning program advanced the timing, the pick up came back and the pinging also came back. This time I printed the ignition coils TSB (NTB01-059) and brought the car back. I asked why they changed the alternator last time and their explanation was -- get this -- they searched through the TSBs and decided my car was making the rattling noise from the A/C. The resolution was to replace the alternator. Evidently, I don't know what pinging sounds like (and neither do their techs). Ok, whatever. With the ignition coil TSB in hand, they couldn't really argue. I got 6 new coils replaced under warranty.

Same deal as before. Pinging was gone after resetting the self-learning program. A couple weeks later, timing advances, pinging returns.

At this point, I've had it. I don't feel like wasting more time at the dealer. I do some research and come up with a list of culprits -- sparks, MAFS, O2 sensors, knock sensor, badly grounded wiring harness. Sparks being the easiest, I just bit the bullet and replaced them myself (OEM parts, PFRG5-11 NGK Laser Platinum plugs). The old plugs looked fine for 33k of usage. No indication of detonation or residue, etc. Leave it to say, changing them did nothing.

Up until that time, I'd spent 5 months pursuing this. It was Jan 2003 and my warranty was running out. I was so unhappy with the incompetency of the local dealer that I started checking out other dealers. I found one about 20 min away that had high ratings on service and set up an appointment. I told them I wanted the master tech present when explaining the details to the service writer. Sure enough, those guys were much more competent -- the master tech asked all the right questions -- asked if I'd replaced the coils and sparks and updated to the latest software. As before, I tossed in some suggestions -- MAFS, O2 sensors, knock sensor.

So they kept the car, couldn't reproduce the problem. I came back and showed the master tech exactly how to do it and he sat in the car with me, plugged in his diagnostic tool and took a bunch of readings. No codes, nothing strange except it was running slightly lean.

He kept the car for a week, called Nissan NA's tech line for a solution. I got the car back and the solution was...... retarding the timing. I couldn't believe it! They had my software reprogrammed to drop back the timing by 2 degrees. I was very p!ssed. The car felt dog slow and while the pinging was mostly gone, it wasn't entirely gone. There went my confidence with that dealer.

Again, I had enough trying to deal with this. I read through my warranties and saw I was still covered for a bunch of things after the 3 year / 36k was up. Also, the dealer gave warranty on their repairs for 12 months / 12k miles. I figured whatever part was starting to fail would eventually throw a code and then I could go b!tch them out.

Fast forward to 1 month ago (end of Aug 2003). The MIL comes on. I pull the code -- P0171 / Right, Bank 1 / Fuel Injection System (Lean). The FSM indicated a few possibilities, inclusive of O2 sensors and MAFS. I took the car back in and talked to the master tech. I refreshed his memory on my car's history and how the work should be under warranty, and gave him the P code and suggestions for resolution.

One week later, my car was back, the MAFS was replaced and ECM reprogrammed. The car was finally back to normal.

The good news? No charge on any service. The bad news? It took over a year for Nissan to fix my car correctly!!

ÀÜSSÎË

G’day mate,
I must say I am sorry to hear about all you problems, I to am having pining problems I have posted some threads here on this subject

I am however glad you where finally able to fix the problem I have had no such luck as of yet, bit I am still trying

hokiemax

iTrader: (2)

wow. very nutritious post. So are you saying that the new MAF solved the pinging problem?

Maxxxed

iTrader: (3)

Nicely done, halcyon... so you are saying, you had to diagnose the problem yourself and give them the exact error code and the solution, for them to finally fix the problem... that's a shame on the dealership.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

MAF is a b!tch to diagnose.

Glad you got it figured out. I have another car that pings and the dealers solution(Nissan) was always to retard the timing, but I suspect I need to swap the MAF and see what happens.

Thanks, you've given me some more suspicion it's the MAF.

halcyon

Thanks. Yeah, the semi-failing MAFS was causing the A/F ratio to be too lean, which in turn caused the pinging.

halcyon

Well, the code didn't get thrown until about a month ago. But otherwise, yes, I pretty much learned I had to be more informed than them. What I would have much preferred is if they'd used those fancy proprietary tools of theirs to check out the MAFS, O2 sensors, and knock sensor as I had suggested in the first place, instead of looking only for error codes.

BrandonSE

iTrader: (1)

wow...nice post, one thing i wish i could figure out how to fix with the 2000's though is the ****ing noise it makes when i start it from cold. I know that everyone says its the self adjusting chain, but i cant take this noise anymore, i paid 14k for a car that when i start it in the mornin or if it sat for 3 hours to give a whine noise, **** that... sorry this had nothing to do with your post but you had so many problems with your car it just reminded me of it.

Cdriven

I noticed within the last fews days my 03 Max is starting to ping. It's so annoying!
I haven't taken it to the dealer yet since I've read a lot of the threads here on the org, and I figure its gonna take a while.
I figured since I have the 03, I would have the newer MAF, but now that its pinging, maybe I don't. My Max hasn't thrown any codes yet so, I guess they'll look at everything before they eventually find the problem.

Just reading other people's service experiences is frustrating..

sascuderi

The two VQs I have owned have pinged under light acceleration...95 Max, 2000 I30. Always worse on 87 octane, but still noticable on 93.

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

No kidding on the pinging on 87 octane...use the highest octane possible as required by Nissan.

halcyon

In my case, I've always used the highest available in my area (91 octane) and of different brands. Didn't make a difference, as my problem obviously had nothing to do with detonation.

subdocmax

iTrader: (1)

I think you need to watch were you get gas and think 91+octane