2k2 Engine died - not warranteed *PICS
10-14-2003, 05:01 AM
#41
meh
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,188
I hope this is not gonna end up being a common problem! And props to SmokinOdum for takin things in his own hands (even though he shouldn't of had too), I doubt I could of handled myself so well
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
I forgot to say... take the intake manifold apart- or look inside go back to Nissan and ask them WTF is that ? tell them U heard of this online and demand an explanation- they know all about this problem- Recall MIGHT happen... depending on how many FWD 3.5s blow up.
10-14-2003, 06:41 AM
#42
This same thing happened to my brother a few years back on his Grand Prix. A foreign screw from nowhere ruined his motor.
I might have tried to fight this one so long as I could prove where the metal came from. And I hope you told them their services will no longer be required by you and that you'll do the work yourself.
This is NOT a common problem people so don't go off the deep end and expect it to be.
10-14-2003, 07:27 AM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 312
Is this secondary butterfly visible from anywhere without taking the engine apart. I am just wondering so once in a while a visible inspection could be made to make sure that these screws are not coming out.
10-14-2003, 07:44 AM
#44
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,815
Mike & Matt,
Would it be a good idea at some point to take the TB out and Locktite these screws to prevent them from backing out in the future?
Would it be a good idea at some point to take the TB out and Locktite these screws to prevent them from backing out in the future?
10-14-2003, 11:56 AM
#46
Originally Posted by maximaman777
Mike & Matt,
Would it be a good idea at some point to take the TB out and Locktite these screws to prevent them from backing out in the future?
Would it be a good idea at some point to take the TB out and Locktite these screws to prevent them from backing out in the future?
10-14-2003, 11:59 AM
#47
I don't see how items that large could get past an aftermarket/stock filter and maf screens.
The idea that it's some of the VI screws is a good guess because it's past all the filters.
Smokin' should be able to verify this by looking at his intake manifold??
The idea that it's some of the VI screws is a good guess because it's past all the filters.
Smokin' should be able to verify this by looking at his intake manifold??
10-14-2003, 12:03 PM
#48
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I don't see how items that large could get past an aftermarket/stock filter and maf screens.
The idea that it's some of the VI screws is a good guess because it's past all the filters.
Smokin' should be able to verify this by looking at his intake manifold??
The idea that it's some of the VI screws is a good guess because it's past all the filters.
Smokin' should be able to verify this by looking at his intake manifold??
10-14-2003, 12:04 PM
#49
Yup. If anyone would know, it would be you. Have you taken a look at the inside of your intake yet?
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
I agree Jeff but I have been through these things probably more than anyone and I can't begin to tell you what that may have come from. If he were to ship them to me I could certianly find out quickly if they're internal parts. That or take some much clearer pictures.
10-14-2003, 12:10 PM
#50
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Yup. If anyone would know, it would be you. Have you taken a look at the inside of your intake yet?
The items in that picture look like roll pins. There are no roll pins in this intake.
10-14-2003, 05:13 PM
#52
Joo wanna play??......ok we go to war
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,274
Originally Posted by SmokinOdum
2 Days later I order a motor from a salvage yard in NJ for $900. It only had 9,000 miles on it, and it come from wrecked 02 maxima GLE Automatic. I was happy to find such a cheap motor, but I had one more problem on my hands. My car is a 6speed, and there are only engines from automatic cars to be found.
After talking to all the dealerships in the area; I concluded that no one knew if it was possible or not since they havent tried it themselves.
and by the way can u tell me what salvavge yard in NJ you got this from that way i can go look for stuff i might need
thanx man
-J
10-15-2003, 06:47 AM
#53
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 285
I checked the manifold valve, and BlackBIRDVQ was right! 
There are supposed to be 2 bolts attaching the plate to the rotating joint; and only one is on, there otherside has an empty hole.
Im taking it in shortly, Ill let everyone know what they say.
Thanks guys!
There are supposed to be 2 bolts attaching the plate to the rotating joint; and only one is on, there otherside has an empty hole.
Im taking it in shortly, Ill let everyone know what they say.
Thanks guys!
10-15-2003, 06:55 AM
#54
Originally Posted by SmokinOdum
I checked the manifold valve, and BlackBIRDVQ was right!
There are supposed to be 2 bolts attaching the plate to the rotating joint; and only one is on, there otherside has an empty hole.
Im taking it in shortly, Ill let everyone know what they say.
Thanks guys!
There are supposed to be 2 bolts attaching the plate to the rotating joint; and only one is on, there otherside has an empty hole.
Im taking it in shortly, Ill let everyone know what they say.
Thanks guys!
10-15-2003, 07:26 AM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
PM me with a price for the O2 sensors (and their locations). I need bank 2 sensors for front and rear (the ones after the pre-cats).
10-15-2003, 07:35 AM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 312
at that point I would drop the old engine back in the car and have it towed back right to their shop and say now "FIX IT!"
10-15-2003, 08:13 AM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 138
Hell,
I would take the peices of metal they gave you back and have them anaylized to see exactly what the alloy is they are made out of. Then I would find out what the material is that they use in the part you have missing. If it is a match I would sue them for the damages plus you can sue them for attorny costs and the cost to have the material anaylized. (you can buy a new part from nissan (the one that is missing on you intake )and have it tested with the metal shards they returned to you to see if they are the same material.
Carl.
I would take the peices of metal they gave you back and have them anaylized to see exactly what the alloy is they are made out of. Then I would find out what the material is that they use in the part you have missing. If it is a match I would sue them for the damages plus you can sue them for attorny costs and the cost to have the material anaylized. (you can buy a new part from nissan (the one that is missing on you intake )and have it tested with the metal shards they returned to you to see if they are the same material.
Carl.
10-15-2003, 09:16 AM
#59
Did you see the pictures?
Clearly the top of the piston/head is damaged, so they were in the combustion chamber.
Clearly the top of the piston/head is damaged, so they were in the combustion chamber.
Originally Posted by spirilis
Were these in the oil pan, or inside the combustion chamber(s)? If it were components from the intake, how would it get into the oil galleys/etc?
10-15-2003, 09:18 AM
#60
Wow! Great news considering the situation. But please sit down and figure out what you think you are entitled to first. Not go there and see what they say. You can see what they say FIRST. But have a good idea about what you want out of it.
ie.. $11,000?? Because that is what the quoted you to replace?
ie.. whatever $ it cost YOU to do the swap plus a reasonable amount of $ for labor.
ie.. replacement costs plus time off from work and hardship due to their negligence etc...??
Alot of ways to go about it. Make sure you get your DUE!
ie.. $11,000?? Because that is what the quoted you to replace?
ie.. whatever $ it cost YOU to do the swap plus a reasonable amount of $ for labor.
ie.. replacement costs plus time off from work and hardship due to their negligence etc...??
Alot of ways to go about it. Make sure you get your DUE!
10-15-2003, 09:22 AM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,720
VERY VERY impressive, Smoke!!!
10-15-2003, 09:24 AM
#62
Good suggestion!
I'd WANT the cost of the engine PLUS the going quote book rate/time for install MINIMUM.
However, I'd personally be going after a NEW engine. They owe it to you and you can sell it.
I'd WANT the cost of the engine PLUS the going quote book rate/time for install MINIMUM.
However, I'd personally be going after a NEW engine. They owe it to you and you can sell it.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Wow! Great news considering the situation. But please sit down and figure out what you think you are entitled to first. Not go there and see what they say. You can see what they say FIRST. But have a good idea about what you want out of it.
ie.. $11,000?? Because that is what the quoted you to replace?
ie.. whatever $ it cost YOU to do the swap plus a reasonable amount of $ for labor.
ie.. replacement costs plus time off from work and hardship due to their negligence etc...??
Alot of ways to go about it. Make sure you get your DUE!
ie.. $11,000?? Because that is what the quoted you to replace?
ie.. whatever $ it cost YOU to do the swap plus a reasonable amount of $ for labor.
ie.. replacement costs plus time off from work and hardship due to their negligence etc...??
Alot of ways to go about it. Make sure you get your DUE!
10-15-2003, 09:49 AM
#64
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
ie.. whatever $ it cost YOU to do the swap plus a reasonable amount of $ for labor.
10-15-2003, 09:59 AM
#65
Icy, good suggestion. Get Dave B's written account of the problem happening on a similar engine AND point out it was done under warranty. I would assume since the car is running fine, any court wouldn't have Nissan put a new engine in and do the work all over. But he IS entitled to the warranty work WHICH would have most likely included a new engine. So I suppose not only is he entitled to be compensated for his time/$ to replace the engine on his own but compensation for the value loss of having an used engine vs a new engine. So have a dealer quote a new engine and figure out the difference between the new & used. You might be entitled to the difference on TOP of your hard work. It's clear that the dealer KNEW very well what the items were but tried to put one over on ya.
MAXIMA.ORG POWER BABY! Go get them!
MAXIMA.ORG POWER BABY! Go get them!
10-15-2003, 10:25 AM
#66
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 908
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Icy, good suggestion. Get Dave B's written account of the problem happening on a similar engine AND point out it was done under warranty. I would assume since the car is running fine, any court wouldn't have Nissan put a new engine in and do the work all over. But he IS entitled to the warranty work WHICH would have most likely included a new engine. So I suppose not only is he entitled to be compensated for his time/$ to replace the engine on his own but compensation for the value loss of having an used engine vs a new engine. So have a dealer quote a new engine and figure out the difference between the new & used. You might be entitled to the difference on TOP of your hard work. It's clear that the dealer KNEW very well what the items were but tried to put one over on ya.
MAXIMA.ORG POWER BABY! Go get them!
MAXIMA.ORG POWER BABY! Go get them!
Give'em hell!
10-15-2003, 11:10 AM
#68
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 285
Assuming they fess up ....
im going to ask for a new motor to be put in, my warrantee back, and reimbursment for the $800. Then ill ebay the motor thats currently in the car for like $800 bux or so.
Anything I can get out of them is going to be hard. So im not expecting much.
I went there this morning, 7am , and the service manager wasn't in.
So they are suppose to call me back today to discuss things. Ill post things as they go.
im going to ask for a new motor to be put in, my warrantee back, and reimbursment for the $800. Then ill ebay the motor thats currently in the car for like $800 bux or so.
Anything I can get out of them is going to be hard. So im not expecting much.
I went there this morning, 7am , and the service manager wasn't in.
So they are suppose to call me back today to discuss things. Ill post things as they go.
10-15-2003, 11:56 AM
#69
Honestly, YOUR BEST route is to pull the motor and put the bad one back in and have it towed over like you didn't touch anything. Then show them the throttle-body and PROOF of other engines that injested the screw. Otherwise, they are going to blame you and not cover anything. I'm willing to bet on it, since you did the work yourself and didn't pay a mechanic who would be an independent witness.
Either lawyer up to fight it out in court, go through the hassle of swapping the engine back in, or just say forget it and take it in the azz.
Your choice, but mine would be to TALK with a lawyer FIRST, then if he says it's a long shot, I'd swap the engines back.
Either lawyer up to fight it out in court, go through the hassle of swapping the engine back in, or just say forget it and take it in the azz.
Your choice, but mine would be to TALK with a lawyer FIRST, then if he says it's a long shot, I'd swap the engines back.
Originally Posted by SmokinOdum
Assuming they fess up ....
im going to ask for a new motor to be put in, my warrantee back, and reimbursment for the $800. Then ill ebay the motor thats currently in the car for like $800 bux or so.
Anything I can get out of them is going to be hard. So im not expecting much.
I went there this morning, 7am , and the service manager wasn't in. So they are suppose to call me back today to discuss things. Ill post things as they go.
im going to ask for a new motor to be put in, my warrantee back, and reimbursment for the $800. Then ill ebay the motor thats currently in the car for like $800 bux or so.
Anything I can get out of them is going to be hard. So im not expecting much.
I went there this morning, 7am , and the service manager wasn't in.
So they are suppose to call me back today to discuss things. Ill post things as they go.
10-15-2003, 12:04 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 306
Damn that sucks especially being thats its still practically new ! Great Job on the engine install, I personally could never do anything like that. If you have remaining time on your warranty, I would bug that dealership for every little thing that might ever happen in the future to your car. Shouldnt Nissan be responsible some how for that, at least partially ???
10-15-2003, 12:07 PM
#71
Icy, you should do a few engine swaps to realize how much of a pain that is to do before suggesting he pull a perfectly good working motor out and put the screwed one back in.
What he did AFTER the engine was damaged/inspected by Nissan really has no bearing on their liability. Only on the restitution value.
What he did AFTER the engine was damaged/inspected by Nissan really has no bearing on their liability. Only on the restitution value.
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Honestly, YOUR BEST route is to pull the motor and put the bad one back in and have it towed over like you didn't touch anything. Then show them the throttle-body and PROOF of other engines that injested the screw. Otherwise, they are going to blame you and not cover anything. I'm willing to bet on it, since you did the work yourself and didn't pay a mechanic who would be an independent witness.
Either lawyer up to fight it out in court, go through the hassle of swapping the engine back in, or just say forget it and take it in the azz.
Your choice, but mine would be to TALK with a lawyer FIRST, then if he says it's a long shot, I'd swap the engines back.
Either lawyer up to fight it out in court, go through the hassle of swapping the engine back in, or just say forget it and take it in the azz.
Your choice, but mine would be to TALK with a lawyer FIRST, then if he says it's a long shot, I'd swap the engines back.
10-15-2003, 12:20 PM
#72
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Icy, you should do a few engine swaps to realize how much of a pain that is to do before suggesting he pull a perfectly good working motor out and put the screwed one back in.
HOWEVER, he's apparently concerned about his warranty and he's NOT going to have one unless NISSAN installs the new engine. PITA yes! Worth it IMO, yes. He made the mistake of jumping into an engine swap before persuing ALL avenues and if he's seriously considering having Nissan fix everything, he's going to have to go back to the original engine.
What he did AFTER the engine was damaged/inspected by Nissan really has no bearing on their liability. Only on the restitution value.
10-15-2003, 12:27 PM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 312
In my opinion (having done several engine swaps myself) what I would do is keep on trying to have them admit that there is a problem. Should they admit it. At that point i would replace the engine with the one that has grenaded. Lets face it a new engine is a new engine. This way the warranty is still their problem and not yours.
10-15-2003, 12:30 PM
#74
No no no. He's asking Nissan to reinstated his warranty on the current engine. They will just have to inspect it and verify. Why? Becuase that's a hell of alot cheaper than having them put a NEW one in and warranty that one.
He made the jump because he needed an car to go to work in and probably didn't have the time to screw around with Nissan.
The hard facts are exactly the same. Why? Because Nissan already did the inspection, gave him the "cause" (however false) and gave him the culprit(s). That in itself already incriminates the Nissan dealer. Engine in/out what is the difference?
He made the jump because he needed an car to go to work in and probably didn't have the time to screw around with Nissan.
The hard facts are exactly the same. Why? Because Nissan already did the inspection, gave him the "cause" (however false) and gave him the culprit(s). That in itself already incriminates the Nissan dealer. Engine in/out what is the difference?
10-15-2003, 12:33 PM
#75
Ideally, yes. However, this is NISSAN we are talking about.
If we REALLY want to help this guy, we should bring as much attention as possible to this situation and Courtesy Nissans' handling of it. That way they will give him the due attention vs. the normal F-u, what can you do attitude.
Once they know he's removed the bad engine, they're going to wash their hands of the situation and he's going to have to lawyer up to get ANY action. That's his decision, but I think it would be better to swap engines IF they don't readily accept his "proof" that the throttle-body screw was to blame.
If we REALLY want to help this guy, we should bring as much attention as possible to this situation and Courtesy Nissans' handling of it. That way they will give him the due attention vs. the normal F-u, what can you do attitude.
Once they know he's removed the bad engine, they're going to wash their hands of the situation and he's going to have to lawyer up to get ANY action. That's his decision, but I think it would be better to swap engines IF they don't readily accept his "proof" that the throttle-body screw was to blame.
Originally Posted by tmuscedere
In my opinion (having done several engine swaps myself) what I would do is keep on trying to have them admit that there is a problem. Should they admit it. At that point i would replace the engine with the one that has grenaded. Lets face it a new engine is a new engine. This way the warranty is still their problem and not yours.
10-15-2003, 12:34 PM
#76
Nissan is clearly going to see that it's their fault. I mean I think that's a reasonable assumption. Now Nissan is going to see he has a good replacement engine in there and car is working fine. Question is what is the cheapest way out for that dealer?
1) Deny everything of course. But that will lead to a court date and some serious restitution. Nope.
2) Replace the existing good engine with a new one. Probably not and in the whole scheme of things, doesn't make too much sense.
3) Accept to warranty the used engine and negotiate some type of value for the difference. This is what is probably doing to happen. Now the question is how much can he get??
1) Deny everything of course. But that will lead to a court date and some serious restitution. Nope.
2) Replace the existing good engine with a new one. Probably not and in the whole scheme of things, doesn't make too much sense.
3) Accept to warranty the used engine and negotiate some type of value for the difference. This is what is probably doing to happen. Now the question is how much can he get??
10-15-2003, 12:35 PM
#77
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 95
I'm so glad I didn't buy my Max from Courtesy Nissan. Every car salesman that I have dealt with is the same. I tried to buy one there but they wanted to tack on stupid crap like window etching and fabric stain resistant. I walked away. Now I am very glad.
10-15-2003, 12:37 PM
#78
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 312
I understand that. However I highly doubt that Nissan will reinstate his warranty on
1) A used engine.
2) A non-certified mechanic doing the work.
I understand why he did what he did. We all buy cars to drive, not just to look at in the driveway. However, having a 2002 with no warranty (who knows what else will happen) in my opinion is not the way to go. What do you think they would say if they admitted there was a problem and decide to fix it. And you turn around and say "I have already changed the engine" Next week the transmission lets go. Then they will say it was something you did that caused the transmission to break.
1) A used engine.
2) A non-certified mechanic doing the work.
I understand why he did what he did. We all buy cars to drive, not just to look at in the driveway. However, having a 2002 with no warranty (who knows what else will happen) in my opinion is not the way to go. What do you think they would say if they admitted there was a problem and decide to fix it. And you turn around and say "I have already changed the engine" Next week the transmission lets go. Then they will say it was something you did that caused the transmission to break.
10-15-2003, 12:40 PM
#79
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
No no no. He's asking Nissan to reinstated his warranty on the current engine. They will just have to inspect it and verify. Why? Becuase that's a hell of alot cheaper than having them put a NEW one in and warranty that one.
He made the jump because he needed an car to go to work in and probably didn't have the time to screw around with Nissan.
He made the jump because he needed an car to go to work in and probably didn't have the time to screw around with Nissan.
He swapped engines HIMSELF and they aren't going to "trust" his capabilities. Any number of things could be wrong that aren't going to show up until later. Nissan won't take the chance of eating the warrany cost no matter how much cheaper it is now.
The hard facts are exactly the same. Why? Because Nissan already did the inspection, gave him the "cause" (however false) and gave him the culprit(s). That in itself already incriminates the Nissan dealer. Engine in/out what is the difference?
His choice, but I'm willing to bet Nissan is going to give him the finger with the junkyard engine.
10-15-2003, 12:43 PM
#80
Jeff -
You're looking at this from the LOGICAL point of view. Nissan doesn't have that and never will. They are going to give him the finger at the slightest oddity, since they're the ones with the power.
The burden is on him NOT them and they are willing to say no NOW and wait for a court later to force them to pay. THAT IS CHEAPER FOR THEM. It's the viscous circle of Nissan DIService and the bean counters wet dream.
You're looking at this from the LOGICAL point of view. Nissan doesn't have that and never will. They are going to give him the finger at the slightest oddity, since they're the ones with the power.
The burden is on him NOT them and they are willing to say no NOW and wait for a court later to force them to pay. THAT IS CHEAPER FOR THEM. It's the viscous circle of Nissan DIService and the bean counters wet dream.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Nissan is clearly going to see that it's their fault. I mean I think that's a reasonable assumption. Now Nissan is going to see he has a good replacement engine in there and car is working fine. Question is what is the cheapest way out for that dealer?
1) Deny everything of course. But that will lead to a court date and some serious restitution. Nope.
2) Replace the existing good engine with a new one. Probably not and in the whole scheme of things, doesn't make too much sense.
3) Accept to warranty the used engine and negotiate some type of value for the difference. This is what is probably doing to happen. Now the question is how much can he get??
1) Deny everything of course. But that will lead to a court date and some serious restitution. Nope.
2) Replace the existing good engine with a new one. Probably not and in the whole scheme of things, doesn't make too much sense.
3) Accept to warranty the used engine and negotiate some type of value for the difference. This is what is probably doing to happen. Now the question is how much can he get??