IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I applaud you guys for this effort.

A few of us have offered to chip in $$$$...it's the least we could do, since you may be saving THOUSANDS of dollars for members here.

Make sure you get Cullens' approval on your guys plan. Otherwise, you might as well not bother IMO, since I'd bet legally you guys can't do much.

Thanks again!

WILLSE

Ice cullen is the one that designed em. he has no say so in me gettin my money back. stillen has been avoiding the problem by making me talk to cullen. he said if i wan a different answer than hes not the one i need to be talking to. so i will get another answer from someone that out ranks him. the length of time this has been dragged on is completly insane. i want a answer this week.

thanks for your help guys!

will

Mick Max

I will still paypal $25 towords the dyno's and another $25 towords a TS flash to Will, but would probably be better to give to Quicksilver because he is going to have the Headers. And it would be best to have these 2 mods on a perf. cond stock car. It would be smart for a bunch of guys to chip in on this as cheap insurance against $1000 mistakes.
I still feel that these headers should make some power. Something else has to be responsible, it just has not been discovered yet.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I understand Cullens' role Will, but from the sound of it, you must get past HIM before you'll get anywhere. He's in the CYA(Cover Your A$$) mode and UNTIL you can 100% reject all his "escape goats", you're just going to go around in circles FOREVER. That's why I'm saying for you guys to get from him and WHOEVER has "power" in the matter, what the testing criteria MUST be. I mean they might ONLY accept someone driving to their shop and dynoing on their dyno for all we know. You guys might just be wasting your time and pulling your hair out for nothing.

ASK FOR HIM TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE DYNOS, so we can compare and look for any fishy business. Until they PROVE gains on their own dyno, I'm 100% convinced they are FOS about having ANY dyno proof and wouldn't touch their headers with a 10ft pole.

We all know Stillen has gone on to OTHER markets and I believe this is truely a sign of the lack of R&D we'll be getting from now on plus a lack of interest in offering future Maxima products. We all know it was just a matter of time, since we are a SMALL amount of his business. Time to start supporting other vendors like Cattman, HotShot, PFI, etc. who are still producing QUALITY parts and more/most importantly BACKING them 100%.

We don't need Stillen anymore. *** em!

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

Well, the TS ECU + headers would "probably" make power out the wazoo, but the problem is that the headers were meant to work on a stock 2002-2003 Maxima! Let's say the headers don't make any power on my car either. Well, that means that Stillen obviously didn't dyno them and just wanted to make a quick buck off their brand name by giving us something that looks good. Will's car was running massively rich (found that out when changing his plugs). Considering everything I/we have learned about the Maxima ECU (courtesy of TS and good ol' Cheston), and knowing that the ECU has a tendency to try and overcorrect ANY mods by adding or taking away fuel and air, then there is no possible way on this Earth that Stillen can back up the claims they have made about their headers. They have some dyno runs for their headers, but why are they not given out upon request to customers or potential customers? Kinda fishy, if you ask me...

Stereodude

Can't someone start the process to sue them (in small claims court) and suppoena the dyno's they claim to have?

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

You don't even need to do that. Ever heard of the Open Records Act? Apparently they haven't...

MaximaMan77

I didn't know Will had that much of a problem with his precats. We don't know if any material got blown back into any of the cylinders or to what level the RT cat was/is clogged.
I'm definitely not defending $tillen here, especially given the fact that most other people that have their headers aren't happy either, but I think this info may have something to bear here.

I have been saying all along I'd like to see the info Cullen talked about during the dyno runs. If there is something wrong then this will help us isolate the problem.

With the things that were told to $tillen about his car it is going to be a pain to prove anything with out a lot of work on our part.
I also really don't give a F**K about their claims about the car having to be stock. If you gain power with a stock car and loose power after adding a B pipe & or an intake that's just BS and would mean that they made the piping to big to keep the pulses together or something else in the design is F**K'd.

I believe the quicker we do something with another car the quicker we'll find out the truth about these, if we do it just like QS said. We still need more data than just dyno runs and this all won't help us find out what is wrong with Will's car, if anything, with that data. I'm still willing to help with the work even if it doesn't help Will at all because it will help all of us make a more informed decision about where we spend our money. But I wouldn't be happy with just that if I were Will.

studman

My car is down for the week, but I've got another advantage against Stillen.... I've got 2 ECUs. That's right.... 2 ECUs.

I'm having my stock ECU cloned over to a spare one... then having the stock ECU upgraded with the TS flash. Once I get the ECUs back, I'll dyno them.... back to back... same dyno... same day... same car... same everything (except ECUs).

This will allow us to compare the TS updates, as well as to look at the air/fuel ratios of the Stillen exhaust vs. stock. Oh... and I will ZERO out the E-Manage for a before and after best. Then I will tune the E-Manage for a before and after best.

I'll post all the dynos up on my website once they are finished.

Will: If you ever decide to return your headers, let me know. I may be sending mine back with yours.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

ETA on all this?

WILLSE

i think i have made somewhat of a final decision on the headers. THEY SUCK! if HS headers prove ~20hp i will buy them even if i still have the stillen ones. i will then put the stillen headers on ebay and have some poor guy buy em for 100-200 less than i paid. stillen is being rather lame about this entire thing and have yet to return my calls from tuesday of last week. i just want my power and some quality headers. i dunno anymore!

will

studman

The ECU has already been ordered and shipped. It should arrive today or tomorrow. It shipped to FL from AL, so shipping should be quick.

Once I have the ECU, depending on the time of day, I'll get the ECU programmed to my keys, and then FedEx'd overnight for AM delivery the same day. At worst, I'll have to wait until the following day to get the ECU shipped out.

Then, TS will receive the ECUs and start copying them. Once the copy is done, they'll upgrade the original ECU. Then they'll FedEx overnight them back to me.

I would like to have them back by Friday, but that's all depending on when I receive the ECU/MAF from the salvage yard.

So here's the basic timeline.... from the arrival of the ECU/MAF.

Plan A:
Day 1: Arrival in FL. Unit gets keys flashed. Unit ships to TS the same day.
Day 2: Arrival at TS. TS copies ECUs. TS flashes one ECU. TS ships to FL.
Day 3: Arrival at FL. Install same day. Dyno - depends on openings.

As long as the ECU works.... it should be within a week or so at the most.

Plan B:
Day 1: Arrival in FL.
Day 2: Dealer flashes keys. Unit ships to TS.
Day 3: Arrival at TS. TS copies ECUs. TS flashes one ECU. TS ships to FL.
Day 4: Arrival at FL. Install same day.
Day 5 or later: Dyno - depends on dyno openings.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

TS can copy your immobilizer chip from your stock ECU to your SPARE and save you the hassle/cost of having the dealer reprogram everything.

Also, one problem with that scenario. TS can't copy your STOCK source code to your SPARE. Downloading is only performed at Techtom in Japan. Basically, the "duplication" means they flash the immobilizer chip from one to the other, so it will work with your key, IMMU, and either ECU. They then send you back your STOCK ECU unmodified with your SPARE containing your duplicated immobilizer info and their modified source code from the ORIGINAL ECU that went to Techtom(Japan) as the upgraded flash program.

Basically, TechnoSquare doesn't have the equipment to "extract" the source code from your stock ECU only Techtom does. TS only has the ability to "flash" or download whatever source code they have received/modified from Techtom.

studman

Well then... if that is the case, I'll just have the local dealer flash the keys to the SPARE ECU and send my STOCK ECU to Technosquare. That'll save me $150 from them, less the dealer's charge to flash the keys.

MaximaMan77

Are you planning to check the voltages to the MAF on your original ECU before you do all of this? I would...

studman

I have recorded the voltages with the stock ECU and E55AMG2's MAF. I also recorded the same voltages with the blown MAF and my stock ECU. I will have to record the voltages again once the ECU gets back, as well as with the spare ECU once it arrives.

I have confirmed with TS that the "Clone ECU" procedure only copies the key and immobilizer data, not the entire image. For this reason, my local dealer can copy my keys to the new ECU for a cheaper charge than $150. So I sent out my stock ECU yesterday. It will arrive today at TS and will be back in my hands tomorrow.

Once I get the TS ECU back, besides the dynos and a redline video, what else would you like to see?

I'm gonna reset both ECUs and then drive the car for 100 miles on EACH ECU. Once I do that, I'll get the car to the track (which will probably be Wednesday or Friday of next week) and do back-to-back runs. That should be a decent comparison of the changes at the track.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Make sure the video shows the SPEEDO also. I'd like to see what MPH 1st, 2nd, and if you can 3rd tops out at.

On my car, 2nd =~62mph and 3rd =~98mph, is that the same for 2K2+ 6spds?

MaximaMan77

Did anything look out of whack? Or is it normal...

Other than just a bad MAF design is there anything else that we can think of that could cause these to go bad. Higher wattage, wrong Ohm. Could the element in the MAF sensor be a victim of Ohm's Law? I know my 4 Ohm speakers will blow fuses left and right if I connect them to an 8 Ohm amp, even at way lower wattages than the 400 watt rating they have.

Are you also planning on swapping the headers back to stock at some point after the ECU reflash?

MaximaMan77

Even with the bumped up rev limit I don't think the 3.5 can get close to 98. 1st & 2nd are probably pretty close to your numbers if not a slightly lower mph, but 3rd is geared a good bit lower than a 3.0. We need to shift 4th in the mid to upper 80s.

studman

Um, the actual shift point is at 94 MPH. And on the manual transmissions, it's rev limited.

If you drive the car all the way until the limiter kicks in, it's at 94 MPH. I will try it again once the ECU gets back.

MaximaMan77

I don't hit the limiter, but I guess if I tried I could, I don't think the fuel cut at the limiter uses is good for the engine so I shift slightly earlier. Thanks for the info on that though.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Hmmnnn....that should make a 1/4-mile difference IF you don't have to shift 3rd->4th.

TOMBGUARD

I have an Altima W HS headers w/pre-cat. Both pre cats are removed and the Hi flow cat is at the rear of the down pipe. The $tealin headers are uneven in length. Does that have anything to do with the performance gains/losses? I know the HS headers produce some power over the mods I have BC a guy on my net Dynoed 17hp more over his race pipe and he has every mod I have. I personally don't like $tealin anymore BC I was not impressed with the race pipe and will NEVER buy anything from those OVER PRICED MF's again. The guy who dynoed the HS headers dynoes 237 to the wheels. He was 220 before headers. That's when I ordered mine from SWA.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Maybe...we don't know, since NOBODY including $tealin has proved gains. Something is not OPTIMIZED, if the HS headers are laying down what the rumors are saying.

Have you dynoed? If so, can you post your dynos?

Luquire

i really want headers for my car. Cattman's sound like they are pretty good but they are expensive. i would rather get Hot shot headers if they made them. who makes headers for 00-01 besides cattman.

TOMBGUARD

Does Cattman make headers for the 02-03 Max? Are they better than HS? Sorry to hear about $tealin headers.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

No, but SR20DEN has installed the 3.0L 2K-2K1 Cattman headers on his VQ35 Maxima with only minor issues like 02-sensor locations. I'm sure Cattman will be fixing that VERY soon.

Nobody knows, since SR20DEN hasn't dynoed them and we don't have HS headers to compare yet.

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

Something else to add to this thread of ideas...

Should we VQ35DE guys relocate our knock sensor during the header install? Does anyone think that could be a culprit? I could seriously see where the Stillen headers would cause the KS to go friggin' nuts and yank timing across the board...

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

The KS is already in the best possible place right in the middle of the V.

MaximaMan77

I will buy the scanner cable/program but I don't have a laptop and can't afford one right now. I may be able to use my neighbors or if you know of someone that has one. Then we can look at what's going on and know for sure.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I already have the Harrison scanner and a notebook to run it on. Plus my S-AFCII does not indicate a problem.

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

You don't think that relocating to the firewall or something like that wouldn't keep the ECU from errantly pulling timing (just like what they do to the Sentra SER-V's)...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

With our flaky ignition coils...no way in HELL would I disable the ONLY safety measure to keep from damaging the engine.

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

So far the '02-'03 guys haven't had bad coils...at least not that I can recall reading about on here...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Still too risky IMO.

Unless you can verify your KS is overly sensitive, I'd leave it alone.

WILLSE

i might give it a whirl too see if maybe mine is sensative. what are the risks of messing with it and how could i "relocate" it to the firewall?

will

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Worst case(ie unlikely) is engine damage, since that's the ECUs ONLY line of defense to combat detonation. As long as you're not detonating, ie light load/good gas/low temps, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

I believe the SE-R guys just zip tie it to something, but leave it hanging with something protecting the end so it can't bang on anything.

Honestly, I doubt this will make ANY difference. However, THEORETICALLY and I'm reaching here, IF the headers somehow mimick the vibration/frequency the KS is "tuned" to listen for, it could be pulling the timing.

WILLSE

thats what i was thinking. the exhaust definately vibrates the **** so it might be possible that would trigger the sensor. if it doesnt do anything than oh well. since the SE-r's r in inline 4 cylinder and they had to move em than why woudnt we? do the wires have to be lengthened? i dont see how zip tie would be sufficient. anyone have a write up on KS relocation hehe....

will

2kSeMax

Wait I'm confused, do they have headers out for 00-01 maximas? If they do who makes them?

1BADMAX

Yes, Cattman. www.cattman.com