takkar

Just received 1 inch of snow and i thought of testing my ABS out ( bought my 2001 Max SE only 2 months ago)....it hard to get the car to stop..the brake pedal does pulsate but it's hard for the car to come to a complete stop...my 99 Accord ( with NO ABS) can stop in a smaller distance!!!Is this because it's a freakin' heavy car?

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

ABS keeps the wheels from locking up so you maintain traction with the roadway and have control over the vehicle. You can turn to avoid something while anti lock brakes are slowing you down.

Tires play a huge roll with traction. If you've got a good all season or winter tire, I assure you your car equipped with ABS will stop quicker then your Accord with no ABS. It's proven over and over again.

If your car is not stopping well in snow, the blame falls on your tires, not your brakes.

MyownNismo

iTrader: (13)

It's not the ABS it's the crappy potenza's

Maxpat82

If your running in snow with the Craptenza your gonna hurt somebody (yourself or other)

They are killer in rain imagine in snow!!

I've roll on Craptenza once in snow and never gonna take the risk once again!! I'ved pass through a intersection like I'ved never decelerate at all!!

takkar

Yup..thats what I have. Just bought this car..so i guess I will have to get new rims+tires..Thanks for the heads up guys...

2k2kev

you did the wrong experiment... get your maxima to about 30mph and pick a spot directly inline with your car, slam on the brakes... you'll be able to steer around it.

try that in your accord and you're going to go right over that spot... now imaging that was a car that stopped in front of you and which car would you rather be driving in snow?

ABS lets you keep control during braking, it DOES NOT decrease braking distance.

nhall

Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50's are the way to go for the winter season...order from Tire Rack on steel or alloy wheels is the best price I found. I dropped to 15" snows because 16" and 17" were very pricy 3 years ago...now they have come down a lot in price so I would recommend a 16" snow tire to help keep some of the performance aspects alive all winter long! Good luck!

NYC TAR

iTrader: (2)

people say the 00 and 01 are less effective on the ABS than the 02+. So, they change the system in the 02. The 02 system is like the ones they use in accord. personally don't follow too cloose. leave aot of space.

takkar

If i want to drop the tire size from 17" to 15" ..what size tire would be the best fit(i'll be buying extra steel rims for the winter tires)?How does a 225-65-R15 sound? I used the calulator on: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
and this is the closest i can get for my 225-55-R17.
Suggestions?

MyownNismo

iTrader: (13)

You could go to www.tires.com (discount tirs) and put in your car and it will tell you what optional sized tires to run. Also if you go to www.tirerack.com and look for the potenza's and view there rating for snow you will notice there about 4.6 out of 10. And they call it a all season tire.

Jaws

You will also want to go with a narrower tire. I run a 205/60/16, but 215/55/16 will also work. Canadian Tire sells 16" steel rims for $45/ea.

NYC TAR

iTrader: (2)

I think 15" wouldn't clear the rotor, but 16 are prefect. I would just get a set of winter (bizzark) tire and slap them on the oem 17". And save up to get bigger or nicer rims in the spring.

Jaeger

New tires are a must. New rims optional. While a narrower / taller tire will work better in deeper snow, there are several sport-oriented snow tires that will work fine on your stock rims (or a like-sized secondary set). I'm real impressed so far with my Pirelli Winter 210 Snow Sports.

I drove the Bridgestone Cr@ptenzas through 2 winters. I must have been insane!

Jaeger

bounsmith

used the bridgestone potenza's for the end of last winter since I bought the car in Feb, and brand new the were still horrible in the snow. Just picked up a set of the Toyo Garit HT's to fit the stock 17's.

thrasher

I dunno, I drove through a Minnesota winter last year and and the Potenza's didn't seem to be all that bad. I have only noticed a slight increase in traction in the snow with my Pilot Sport A/S's, but dry traction is lightyears better, as is wet traction.

MyownNismo

iTrader: (13)

Thrasher I also live in MN and I had the craptenza's on my car. Well short story is I used all my X-mas money to fix my car after sliding into curb and bending passenger side lower A-arm, strut, wheel bearing, and tire. Wheel also got damaged but was only a large scrape but still usable. I learned and got new tires b4 the snow hit.

2k2kev

I went through this last year and found that good-excellent snow tires for our wheels cost nearly $700, and a set of OEM 16s and excellent snow tires cost about $650...

I bought the 16s and now don't have to worry about having tires swapped on and off and having the tire monkeys scratch my wheels.

MyownNismo

iTrader: (13)

I got 215/50-17 continetal extreme contacts for $81.00 each for my stock 17's

Trance Artur

iTrader: (2)

My 245/45 17 Prodigy Sport 7000v are awesome. Compared to the potenza's, now I'm taking turns at 90 mph or more in the rain on the highway instead of 60 mph or less when I had the potenza's on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trance Artur

iTrader: (2)

What tires did you find??????? I would probably pay way less $500 for the tires you paid. But then again, I get a dealers discount on all my parts and tires!!!!!!

Jaeger

Here's hoping I'm nowhere near when you next decide to pull that brilliant manouver.

Jaeger

Tony Fernandes

Yes, the main benefit of ABS is the enhanced ability to steer around objects while braking. However, to say that it does not decrease braking distance is not necessarily true. Since ABS finds the braking treshold and keeps the tires from locking, it will most likely result in the quickest braking distance for the given surface. Someone that is very skilled can find this point in a non-ABS equipped car and hold it there, but an ABS computer can do the job much better.

Tony

2k2kev

the point in question was whether ABS decreases distance and that's not the issue... ABS gives you control.

ABS does decrease braking distance in most cases as well, but interestingly enough it is not uncommon for ABS to INCREASE braking distance in snow and that's what he was talking about.

Zero Deuce SE

Either you're a stunt driver or embellishing a bit. 90 mph on a wet curve with traction?

Maxxed03

My ABS suck in the snow. If yours are anything like mine, I would be worried too. My ABS goes on vacation when it comes time to stop. I had ABS in my 96 Accord and they worked flawlessly. .When it comes to stopping in the snow with my Altima, I think twice about even attempting to hit the brakes because I think either way, I'll get the same results. . . .

Tony Fernandes

I would really like to hear you explain this please.

Tony

2k2kev

I actually stated it backwards... sorry. Should have said "stopping can be shorter without ABS" ... here:

In what circumstances might conventional brakes have an advantage over ABS?
There are some conditions where stopping distance may be shorter without ABS. For example, in cases where the road is covered with loose gravel or freshly fallen snow, the locked wheels of a non-ABS car build up a wedge of gravel or snow, which can contribute to a shortening of the braking distance.

http://www.abs-education.org/faqs/faqindex.htm

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

Driving in the snow is an acquired skill...just putting blizzaks on or having abs is not going to automatically make you a great snow driver, just like driving an SUV or awd car will not either....I laugh in the winter when I see idiots in AWD cars and SUVs off in a ditch because they thought that their cars gave them some kind of superpowers in the snow.....just remember, no technological device will make a bad snow driver into a good snow drivr...snow driving is all about knowing your car and being patient driver...I used to go places in my Accord coupe with Michelin Energy tires where I would see Cherokees and 4runners stuck inthe snow cuz they didn't know how to drive in the white stuff....

Zero Deuce SE

You hit the nail squarely on the head. I can remember driving in snow without ABS and not having any major problems. Sometimes I didn't even have snow tires. I just drove according to the conditions. The same goes for icy streets and roadways. If you adjust your driving style accordingly, you should be in control of where your vehicle goes. You just have to worry about the careless ones out there.

spauldingsmails

Quite right 2K2: continuous glare ice might also be such a condition. Of course, in some severe crashes it's best not to have a seat belt fastened...
But in most situations, it is preferable to have ABS braking for either: greater directional control, or shorter stopping distance, or both. ABS is so effective at stopping/slowing a car that after the 1993 (?) season, F1 banned it completely. Why? the F1 cars were going "too fast too long" since they could brake so late w/o locking up *and* ABS greatly diminished the need for driver skill in braking. Put another way, if the guy you're racing (in similar cars) on a road course has ABS and you don't, not only is the ABS guy safer, he's also faster.

Tony Fernandes

First of all, any freshly fallen snow plowed in front of the locked wheels may stop a car a few centimeters shorter than an ABS equipped car...under circumstances I would consider as being EXTREMELY rare. If there is a non-slippery surface under the snow, then ABS will still do its job on that surface. If there is ice under the snow, and the wheels are locked, then all you will have is the weight of any snow pushed in front of the locked wheels to help slow the car down. Hardly enough to slow down a vehicle, especially considering most of it will be pushed to the side of the wheel rather than piling up in front of it. As far as gravel goes, this is a little different in that gravel is course and the locked wheels will "dig in" to the gravel and make a ditch, whereas snow will just slide. Also, gravel has an interlocking quality to it.

Imagine you're on a glare-ice-covered road with a 2001 Nissan Maxima SE without ABS (some Nissan tech forgot to install this feature). You're an experienced driver that knows how to brake properly. You're travelling 30 mph and have to stop as quickly as you can. You gently apply pressure to the brake pedal until the brakes lock. You slightly back off on the brakes until the tires start rolling again and then re-apply pressure until they lock and then back off again, and repeat this process until you find that "sweet" spot before impending brake lockup. This is the method for finding threshold braking for a non ABS equipped car. With ABS, sensors and computers automatically do what you just did with your foot but a hundred times faster. This is why the brake pedal pulsates when ABS is activated during a hard stop. It finds that sweet spot and holds it there for you.

I've been driving cars with ABS daily now for almost 9 years at work. Some of the cars have a switch on the dash to deactivate the ABS. I've played around in the winter months many a times with these switches. I promise I can stop quicker than ANY of you with the same exact car on the same exact snowy/icy road with ABS vs. no ABS. If any of you feel that it takes your car FOREVER to stop on a snowy/icy road with ABS, just think how long it would take you to stop without it.

I'm not saying ABS is an excuse to forget how to drive or to forget road and weather conditions. ABS has this stigma attached to it. To the experienced driving enthusiast, ABS is a godsend. My original comments had nothing to do with ABS equipped drivers, 4x4s, or awesome snow traction tire owners thinking they own the road in adverse weather conditions just because they have the technology.

Tony

2k2kev

spauldingsmails and Tony Fernandes, I'm not arguing this again.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....&highlight=abs

I have ABS, I wanted ABS, I'd rather drive a car with than without... I've always said having ABS is about control, NOT stopping distance, and I'm sticking by that. I'd rather be able to turn while I have my foot mashed firmly on the floor than possibly stop sooner...and it's more than just a few centimeters.

http://www.veta.se/abs66ice.htm
http://www.mucda.mb.ca/aboutabs.htm
http://www.se-r.net/brakes/abs.html
http://www.car-insurance-auto-quotes...ews/index3.htm

shall I go on? Every reference you'll ever see says ABS takes longer on snow, that's all i was saying, that's all I ever meant.

And, if you really want to get all screwed up, how about this study that says cars with ABS are involved in more fatal accidents than cars without.

http://www.usd.edu/~rlau/antilock.htm

Given the reason is probably that people don't know how to use them (and I do) I'll stick with my ABS equipped car, thanks.

HerBlue2kSE

That is soooo true! Example of this; I drove my 94 2wd Dakota (sporting a slightly modifed 5.2 ltr v8 - 250 HP ) last winter in the worst snow that Columbus has encounted since I moved here almost 15 years ago. 15" inches in 24 hours which is unheard of down here. The only addition to my truck was 240 lbs of salt in the back. I had the only vehicle in the neighborhood that would get around because I knew how to drive. Another plus was the stock 225/70r15 tires that concentrated the weight on a small surface area. Sure I could bury my self if I got happy with the gas but with some smart driving I could get around better than most if not all of the 4x4's in my 300 house subdivision. I have recently added 255/45R17's all around but will install the stock wheels if/when the weather gets bad


Narrow tires will help but we also drove the Maxima with Cooper Lifeliner SLE Touring in the stock size and the MAJOR obstacle encountered was the car bottomed out in the snow. My truck sits a good 6" inches higher than the Max.

If I lived in an area that got more snow than central Ohio I would have a set of steel wheels with winter tires for the Maxima.

Tony Fernandes

2K2wannabe,

Kudos on doing TONS of research on this topic. You've certainly earned my respect.

What I can't explain is that after reading all of these links you provided, I still believe in my own observations. Maybe I haven't experienced the specific snow/slush conditions talked about in the links. I dunno.

Tony

SkyDaver

Road & Track has tested ABS vs. non-ABS, and in deep, crunchy snow, locked wheels WILL stop measurably shorter than non-locked wheels. You won't be able to control, however, just straightline stop with the locked wheels. This might, or might not, be a bad thing.

There are some drivers that can beat ABS in other conditions, but I'll bet 99% of those drivers are either professional test or race drivers.

I'll take ABS, thank you. I don't perform multiple maximum performance stops every day (which is what it would take to learn how to be better than ABS)

And the reason that ABS cars are involved in more accidents seems to be that the idiot drivers think that ABS will give you dry pavement stopping distances regardless of the condition of the road. They don't understand that all ABS does is to help you get all of the traction that IS available. If you're trying to stop on glare ice, ABS isn't going to give you a dry pavement stopping distance. ABS is not a repeal of the laws of physics.

Zero Deuce SE

And the reason that ABS cars are involved in more accidents seems to be that the idiot drivers think that ABS will give you dry pavement stopping distances regardless of the condition of the road. They don't understand that all ABS does is to help you get all of the traction that IS available. If you're trying to stop on glare ice, ABS isn't going to give you a dry pavement stopping distance. ABS is not a repeal of the laws of physics.[/QUOTE]

Also, ABS is designed to give you the opportunity to steer around a potential crash object (hazard) while under heavy braking. Some people simply hit the brakes and hold on for the impact instead of trying to steer around the object. I love ABS.

Nyc2kMax

potenza's strikes again ?