It's been a loooong time since I've posted here (almost a year to date since I wrecked my '01) but I'm actually thinking about getting back into the game and I wanted some advice.

I was thinking about buying a 6-speed 2002 Maxima SE from CarMax - I haven't seen the car in person yet, but it's being shipped to one near me. It doesn't have Leather or Meridian, but I'm told it has the Bose. Seems like a very nice car - are there any mechanical issues or recalls that I ought to know about before I buy?

Also, something that puzzled me was that the guy told me that it had "sport pedals" meaning the drilled metal ones. At first I thought it was some aftermarket thing, but after some digging I *think* that means that it has the Helical Limited Slip Differential (correct me if I'm wrong on that guys). Now my other question - what exactly is HLSD and what does it do? I'm a little clueless on that one there.

The car's got 33k miles and their asking 18K - not too bad, I think.

 

You're right. The drilled (sport, as the dealer called it) pedals mean the car has HLSD. Got it on mine. I don't know the full technical explanation, but it keeps the wheels turning at the same speed during acceleration.

Check to see if the 'crank position sensor' recall has been done. There are some TSB's also. I had the clutch howl TSB done.

18K seems a bit high. Will they deal?

 

An open differential (which is what you have if you don't have an LSD) gives power to the wheel that slips. If your right wheel is spinning and you give it more gas, it will spin even more, completely ignoring the left wheel.
An LSD is the opposite, it gives power to the wheel that grips. If your right wheel starts spinning the LSD transfers power to your left wheel until it loses grip and switches back to the right. It works like this alternating back and fourth very quickly. This really helps with launches and traction in general.

 

For the 02/03 6MT models, the HLSD option includes "drilled aluminum" pedals.
(They are not actually drilled-through pedals, but rather a perforated aluminum face plate on top of a rubber pedal pad. It's doubtful whether they save significant weight or offer significantly better foot traction than regular pedals but they do look nice.) The pedals are also available aftermarket, so seeing them is not absolutely proof that the car has a HLSD, but it does improve the odds.

HLSD = Helical Limited Slip Differential
The differential uses helical gears and a friction surface to allow a degree of torque transfer when the front wheels turn at different speed.

In a normal differential, equal torque is delivered to both wheels. Thus the wheel with less traction limits the torque available at both wheels. If one wheel starts to slip, its torque goes down, and so will the torque delivered to the other wheel. Once a wheel begins to slip on dry pavement, the heat generated will melt the rubber and create a layer of liquid and gas that is quite slippery, relative to the traction at the non-slipping wheel. (If the pavement is wet then there may be less melted rubber but there is more water and steam.)

In a limited slip diff, non-equal torque can be delivered to the two driveshafts. The differential can shift some torque to the slower-turning wheel. This allows the car to accelerate better than with a regular diff. Before the invention of the HLSD ("Torsen" TM) this was accomplished by clutches that permitted a torque offset between the driveshafts. (i.e., say LH torque = T, then maximum RH torque = T + Offset)

The HLSD shifts torque according to a multiplier (i.e., if LH torque = T, then maximum RH torque = T * Mult.) I don't know what multiplier is used in the Maxima but for a front-drive car the multiplier is typically small (on the order of 2) because the torque shift causes a strong pull in the steering wheel that can surprise the driver because it can appear very suddenly. Limiting the torque multiplier limits the pull in the wheel so that it is less likely to be wrenched out of the hands of a driver who is inattentive or holding the wheel loosely.

Links for HLSD:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential10.htm
http://www.torsen.com/general/general_faq.htm
or search for terms like "torsen," "helical," and "differential."

Note that the HLSD does not help traction on ice. If one wheel is on ice, its torque will be very nearly zero, so the multiplied torque available at the other wheel will also be small. Its real use is in acceleration around a corner when the shifting weight of the car causes the traction available at the inside wheel to be reduced. (Of course if you manage to lift the inside wheel, its torque will be zero and the HLSD will not help.) It is also useful in straight-line acceleration if the traction on both sides of the car is not the same, because of, for example, rough pavement or an oil patch.

The HLSD does not increase the traction available if the engine can develop enough torque to spin both wheels, although it does mean you are more likely to lay down two identical black marks.

My car is similar to the one you are looking at. It is very easy to break loose both tires in wet conditions, and even modestly dumping the clutch will do so on dry pavement too. (It can also set up a nasty axle hop.) Honestly speaking, the 02/03 Maxima has more power than the FWD configuration and relatively unsophisticated suspension can really handle, but it's a lot of fun.

I think there is a VIN code letter that indicates whether a Maxima has the HLSD but I'm not sure what it is. However, there is an operational test: if the front tires are inflated significantly differently (like >5 psi or so difference) then their circumferences will become different enough to trigger some HLSD torque transfer. You will sense this as a tugging in the steering wheel when driving straight ahead on a flat road. It is most noticeable at moderate to high speed (> 30 mph) and heavy throttle. It feels like the car is badly aligned, except that it's very sensitive to the throttle. If you get a puncture and a slow leak in one tire, you will notice this effect.

 

Wow! Thanks for all the info guys -

So this HLSD doesn't seem like it's a bad thing anyway, as for the price of the car $18k was the price they had on their web site. Carmax usually has non-negotiable prices, but the listing had a few errors (most notably it said it had leather when it didn't) so I'm guessing in good faith they should at least knock it down to what other cloth-seat Maximas were going for, which was about $500 to $1000 dollars lower.

Anybody buy from Carmax before? They any good?

 

Good luck with the negotiating. I don't have any experience with Carmax so I can't say if they're good or not. Being a 6 speed, I doubt if it was a rental which is good for you....post pics if/when you get it.

 

there's no negotiating about prices with carmax.....they don't do it...the price is right there.....no less than listed

 

[I] think there is a VIN code letter that indicates whether a Maxima has the HLSD

I don't think it's in the VIN but on a plate with an ID number inside the engine bay - on the firewall? Anyway, if the ID number/code ends with an "h", then you have HLSD. Anyone else know this for sure? I'm too lazy to go outside and open my hood.

 

Yeah, aside from the fact that I wanted a 6-speed, this pretty much guarantees it won't be a rental. My last Maxima from a couple of years ago was an ex-rental, and while it was a blast to drive, it had its fair share of problems.

Also, it wouldn't be negotiating with Carmax per se, rather than have them correct the price - because it didn't have the leather seats that it was advertised as having, then logically the price should match the comparable cars they have there, of which there are many. We'll see how far I get.

Anyway, on that vin number indicating HLSD thing I found a thread on another forum about it, it apparently is an engine code plate on the firewall. Check out this thread:

http://www.nissanforums.com/archive/...p/t-51192.html

 

If it truly has HLSD, I'd jump on it. Hell, I couldn't even find that option when I was buying mine new!

 

Well, the price does seema bit high. I got my 2002 with 31k miles on it for $15,500. I would do some serious negotiating with wherever you get it from.

 

Yea, the price is a little high. Stay away from carmax! One of our Chicago .org members works there and he laughs at all the people that buy cars from them. It's such a rip-off. The no haggle pricing is for wimps that don't know/can't negotiate for ****.

 

yeah, but there is some piece of mind, it seems to me, since they don't sell branded or frame-damaged cars. I've had a bad experience buying a used Nissan from the dealership (Amity Nissan in New York) so I'll pay a little extra for that piece of mind. Besides, when I bought my accord last year, I went to Serafini Nissan in Binghamton and they couldn't really find me a 5-speed 2001 model I was looking for, so my understanding is that to find one in manual with all the stuff I'm looking for is pretty rare, at least it seems that way.

What I'm concerned about is whether, price aside, carmax is reputable or not - do they actually do all the stuff they say they do on their web site and do they stand by all the claims they make? What's the name of the guy who works there? Maybe I can PM him?

 

Wasim, your link has the correct info. I have HLSD (bought new and it was listed as a seperate option) And I checked my firewall. The last number is for the transmission, and mine ends with an 'H'.

It seems the 6 speeds with HLSD are somewhat rare. Like Triple said, you may want to seriously consider it. Hopefully they will adjust their price a bit too, due to the cloth interior. Good luck!!

 

<~~~~ HLSD

 

As others mentioned, check the VIN # to make sure it is truly a HLSD car and not just a car that someone put 'sport pedals' on from their local AutoZone.

 

Hurry and buy it quick. By the time you make up your mind another member of the .org near St. Cloud, MN will have snatched it up.

 

Haha, it's not a matter of making up my mind - the car is being shipped to the closest carmax dealer, (which is seven hours away, boo), and I had to put down a deposit to get that done, so no one can get to that car but me for now. Just a matter of giving it a test drive and making sure it has everything it's supposed to have when I take a look at it. Carmax has even taken it off it's web listing too.

Now I just hope I get a good deal on my trade-in - it's a 2003 Accord EX-V6 Sedan.

 

Ahh.... great to hear about another Accord bowing down to the Max.

 

Yeah, I've been through two Accords - my first one after the accident was a 2004 LX 5-speed - nice car, insanely slow and not that fun to drive. Once I moved out here my dad swapped with me (long story, he wanted an acura so he traded mine in) and now I'm driving his 03 EX-V6. Love the gadgets in the car, and it is insanely fast, but not even close in the fun to drive factor as the Maxima. It's actually even less fun to drive than my 4-cyl. model because there's so much weight with the V6 up front that it numbs all the steering sensation.

But yeah, the Honda bows down to the Maxima.