4th or 5th generation, what should I do?
11-21-2004, 05:17 AM
#1
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Posts: 169
4th or 5th generation, what should I do?
I currently own a 92 se 5spd. I'm looking at a 99 SE-L and an 01 AE. Besides the obvious financial difference can you give my some feedback on the major differences between the 4th and 5th generation cars.........Thanks
11-21-2004, 06:23 AM
#2
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Posts: 1,701
Go with the 4th gen. Many more parts around, cheaper to buy/insure. Practically indestructable. And the 4th gen is faster than the 00s and 01s. Also the 4th gens are easier to work on b/ you can self diagnose. The 00s and 01s have some quirks like bad brakes, bad o2 sensors, etc... The 4th gens don't have these issues and especially not the 99s. With the $ you save , get a Y pipe and intake and your power will about match the 5th gen 00 and 01. Also, the intakes on the 00 and 01 screw with the MAF and blow them which costs $$$$.
11-21-2004, 01:15 PM
#5
Still gotta go with 5th gen
Despite being a more solid car overall (end of production run) the '99 just doesn't have the motor of the late '01 / early '02.
I've owned 'em both - and the 3.5 is the way to go is you're into it.
Overall - if you're looking for reliability and cheaper costs, I don't think you can go wrong with a 4th gen -- but I'd pick the 5th gen personally.
You'd be buying two gens behind otherwise.....
gr
I've owned 'em both - and the 3.5 is the way to go is you're into it.
Overall - if you're looking for reliability and cheaper costs, I don't think you can go wrong with a 4th gen -- but I'd pick the 5th gen personally.
You'd be buying two gens behind otherwise.....
gr
11-21-2004, 07:16 PM
#7
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Well if you're going to buy a 5th gen go for a 2002. It's not really worth buying the very last of the 3.0 maximas, not that they aren't good cars, but the 02-03 are just that much more powerfull.
Since I'm poor and can only afford an early 4th gen, I will want to swap a 3.5 in it and enjoy the fact that it weights only 29xx pounds and that 1995 are the lightest maximas ever made but if you got the money go for 2002-2003. Fastest maximas ever.
Since I'm poor and can only afford an early 4th gen, I will want to swap a 3.5 in it and enjoy the fact that it weights only 29xx pounds and that 1995 are the lightest maximas ever made but if you got the money go for 2002-2003. Fastest maximas ever.
11-21-2004, 07:18 PM
#8
Originally Posted by kratz74
And the 4th gen is faster than the 00s and 01s.
Originally Posted by kratz74
Also, the intakes on the 00 and 01 screw with the MAF and blow them which costs $$$$.
I love the 4th gens, but why would you buy an older model of a car instead of the newer model, all things ($$) being equal.....?
11-21-2004, 07:22 PM
#9
Originally Posted by irish44j
Actually, the 5speed 99 and 5speed 00 have the same times in almost all publications like C&D, R&T, etc...
Not to mention he is looking at an AE, which is definitely faster than a '99.
11-21-2004, 07:43 PM
#10
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my dad just bought a 95 se and it is a nice car, but i like my 00 much better. my car feels like it pulls much harder too. the 95 just doesn't push you back in the seat like my car. this is comparing auto vs auto. i think the 4th gen feels like a smaller car while driving. my 5th gen feels like a bigger car and i like that.
11-21-2004, 07:51 PM
#11
Originally Posted by irish44j
that's a bit of a generalization.....there are plenty of us with intakes that have never had MAF problems (or coil problems for that matter).....
I see we have some magazine racers in this thread....
11-21-2004, 09:09 PM
#13
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Posts: 531
yeah...i installed the updated maf and berk intake at the same time and have not had any issues. its been on for a few months.
though i do have bad coils....and slow shifting auto trans. both of those should be fixed in the next week or two
though i do have bad coils....and slow shifting auto trans. both of those should be fixed in the next week or two
11-21-2004, 09:19 PM
#14
bring on a stock 5spd 4th gen vs a stock GXE 5spd 5th gen, only diff the 00s seem slow is cause every magazine seems to test the slooow 17" equipped cars which cause huge performance issues. 4th gens are cheap on the insides, and have no top end power past 5K RPM. Plus they have knock sensor issues, injectors go bad, MAFs go bad, 5spd trannies blow up... WTF ya people smoking ? I have plenty of friends with 4th gens and they have more problems with their cars than I do with mine. Its not to say 4th gens suck or something, but they are not more or less reliable than the 3.0L 5th gens. 3.5s do have issues with powertrain- trannies, engine sensors, etc. Gotta love the generalization you guys give the cars, 5th gens are the best Maximas ever.
11-21-2004, 09:27 PM
#16
Bob hasn't really mentioned the need or want for his new car to be "fast" so all this talk about intakes and all seems to be kinda a mute point right now. Being 38, both cars should be fine in terms of insurance costs. I would suggest the 5th gen for the more updated interior etc. Just a newer car overall.
Good luck!
Good luck!
11-21-2004, 10:36 PM
#20
I beat a 4th gen in my 3rd gen... and it was VG30E 5spd with 300K miles on it- bone stock. We went from 0-80MPH at the light. I dunno.... 4th gens are like Sentras to me- cheap looking inside, but overall great cars.
11-21-2004, 11:47 PM
#23
if speed isn't a great concern, I say go with whatever looks better to you stock. 4th gen wheel gap is horrendous while with the AE you get bodykit, lights, wheels, and cosemetic+interior goodies
so if your not going to mod the car at all, look at those factors.
so if your not going to mod the car at all, look at those factors.
11-22-2004, 06:24 AM
#25
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Posts: 1,701
And no, a 4th gen isn't faster than a 5th gen.
I had two 4th gen Maximas a 95 and a 99 both 5 speeds and I can tell you that they were quicker than 00 and 01 maximas. Both etxremely reliable (only had 2 o2 sensors go out in total between the two of over 150,000 miles).
Both cars are great, but why waste money on a car that isn't worth the difference if you are ok with the styling?
11-22-2004, 08:53 AM
#26
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Posts: 290
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
bring on a stock 5spd 4th gen vs a stock GXE 5spd 5th gen, only diff the 00s seem slow is cause every magazine seems to test the slooow 17" equipped cars which cause huge performance issues. 4th gens are cheap on the insides, and have no top end power past 5K RPM. Plus they have knock sensor issues, injectors go bad, MAFs go bad, 5spd trannies blow up... WTF ya people smoking ? I have plenty of friends with 4th gens and they have more problems with their cars than I do with mine. Its not to say 4th gens suck or something, but they are not more or less reliable than the 3.0L 5th gens. 3.5s do have issues with powertrain- trannies, engine sensors, etc. Gotta love the generalization you guys give the cars, 5th gens are the best Maximas ever.
11-22-2004, 09:52 AM
#27
Originally Posted by kratz74
Yes it is. Not by much, but the manual 4th beats out the 5th by a hair. Its the same engine guys...but the 5th gen has more weight.
I had two 4th gen Maximas a 95 and a 99 both 5 speeds and I can tell you that they were quicker than 00 and 01 maximas. Both etxremely reliable (only had 2 o2 sensors go out in total between the two of over 150,000 miles).
Both cars are great, but why waste money on a car that isn't worth the difference if you are ok with the styling?
I had two 4th gen Maximas a 95 and a 99 both 5 speeds and I can tell you that they were quicker than 00 and 01 maximas. Both etxremely reliable (only had 2 o2 sensors go out in total between the two of over 150,000 miles).
Both cars are great, but why waste money on a car that isn't worth the difference if you are ok with the styling?
Why was this posted in the 5th gen forum? It speaks to the intelligence and open-mindedness of the 5th gen people that this hasn't turned into a "5th gen owns all" thread
but still, you'd get a more diverse perspective if you'd just posted in General Maxima Discussion.
11-22-2004, 09:53 AM
#28
Originally Posted by Larrio
if speed isn't a great concern, I say go with whatever looks better to you stock. 4th gen wheel gap is horrendous while with the AE you get bodykit, lights, wheels, and cosemetic+interior goodies
so if your not going to mod the car at all, look at those factors.
so if your not going to mod the car at all, look at those factors.
11-22-2004, 02:54 PM
#30
well bob, if you decide to buy a 4th gen, and might mod it, here is a car:
http://www.fastmaxima.com/for_sale.htm
just a thought... lol.
Seriously, I would get a 5th gen. If you get an auto, try and get the 3.5 and not the 3.0.
http://www.fastmaxima.com/for_sale.htm
just a thought... lol.
Seriously, I would get a 5th gen. If you get an auto, try and get the 3.5 and not the 3.0.
11-22-2004, 03:22 PM
#31
Originally Posted by kratz74
Yes it is. Not by much, but the manual 4th beats out the 5th by a hair. Its the same engine guys...but the 5th gen has more weight.
I had two 4th gen Maximas a 95 and a 99 both 5 speeds and I can tell you that they were quicker than 00 and 01 maximas. Both etxremely reliable (only had 2 o2 sensors go out in total between the two of over 150,000 miles).
Both cars are great, but why waste money on a car that isn't worth the difference if you are ok with the styling?
I had two 4th gen Maximas a 95 and a 99 both 5 speeds and I can tell you that they were quicker than 00 and 01 maximas. Both etxremely reliable (only had 2 o2 sensors go out in total between the two of over 150,000 miles).
Both cars are great, but why waste money on a car that isn't worth the difference if you are ok with the styling?
11-22-2004, 03:43 PM
#32
Originally Posted by Arnold K.
Stop. It's not the same engine. The 5th gen is only about 150lbs heavier and the 5th gen has 32hp over a 4th gen. A 5spd GXE 5th gen can run high 14s easily. You're telling me that a 4th gen, with a disadvantage of 32hp can "by a hair" beat a 5th gen? Hehehe, that's funny.
No joke. Not to mention he was deciding between a 4th gen or a 5th gen AE, which bumps up the horsepower to 227 stock. I blew a friend of mine (who is a lead foot with a 99 SE) off the line about two weeks ago with my automagic AE. And saying that the 5th gens would "slightly" pull away at the high end is stupid......the 5th gen owns the 4th gen at the top end, lol.
Anyway, once again back to the original question. If you are looking at an AE and a 4th gen, the AE would obviously in my mind be the nicer overall car. Better injectors, MAFs, better interior, and the body kit.....so to me there is really no question about it.
11-22-2004, 04:04 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Arnold K.
Stop. It's not the same engine. The 5th gen is only about 150lbs heavier and the 5th gen has 32hp over a 4th gen. A 5spd GXE 5th gen can run high 14s easily. You're telling me that a 4th gen, with a disadvantage of 32hp can "by a hair" beat a 5th gen? Hehehe, that's funny.
Stock VQ30DE-K torque: 217 ft-lbs
Stock VQ30DE torque: 205 ft-lbs
12 ft-lbs difference plus the additional ~200 lbs ain't gonna get a stock '00-'01 off the line faster than a stock 4th gen.
Stock 5th gen and 4th gen HP/weight curves are neck and neck (DE-K is smoother probably because of the VIM) until almost 5500 RPMs.
Also, if you have the stock 17" wheels, you will definitely lose 0-60 against a stock 4th gen with 16" wheels.
https://maxima.org/modules.php?name=30_comparisons
11-22-2004, 04:17 PM
#34
Originally Posted by VQuick
Yes, it is the same engine because a different intake manifold and some minor updates do not make a new engine. The designation is VQ30DE-K, meaning a new version of the same engine.
Stock VQ30DE-K torque: 217 ft-lbs
Stock VQ30DE torque: 205 ft-lbs
12 ft-lbs difference plus the additional ~200 lbs ain't gonna get a stock '00-'01 off the line faster than a stock 4th gen.
Stock 5th gen and 4th gen HP/weight curves are neck and neck (DE-K is smoother probably because of the VIM) until almost 5500 RPMs.
Also, if you have the stock 17" wheels, you will definitely lose 0-60 against a stock 4th gen with 16" wheels.
https://maxima.org/modules.php?name=30_comparisons
Stock VQ30DE-K torque: 217 ft-lbs
Stock VQ30DE torque: 205 ft-lbs
12 ft-lbs difference plus the additional ~200 lbs ain't gonna get a stock '00-'01 off the line faster than a stock 4th gen.
Stock 5th gen and 4th gen HP/weight curves are neck and neck (DE-K is smoother probably because of the VIM) until almost 5500 RPMs.
Also, if you have the stock 17" wheels, you will definitely lose 0-60 against a stock 4th gen with 16" wheels.
https://maxima.org/modules.php?name=30_comparisons
And as far as that dyno chart, the inconsitency of the 4th gen and then the eventual sharp decline past 5000RPM is obvious. It may quickly peak over the DE-K, but it quickly falls and the DE-K only continues to rise.
In the end, it becomes a game of physics. Two cars that weigh within 150lbs of each other. Both cars feature *very similar* (NOT the same) engines. One car is nearly 37hp the inferior...and yet somehow the inferior car will take the superior one off a line? It won't happen. It'll never happen as long as two equally skilled drivers are working both. Until I see someone do a 14.7 1/4 and 6.4 0-60 in a 5spd 4th gen, I'll continue to fight off whoever claims that a 4th gen can somehow beat a 5th gen. (Not a magazine stat, either. Accomplished by someone here at the org with a stock 5spd GXE).
So far, the best 0-60 I've seen someone do with a 4th gen was 6.8, afaik.
11-22-2004, 04:32 PM
#35
Originally Posted by Arnold K.
Until I see someone do a 14.7 1/4 and 6.4 0-60 in a 5spd 4th gen, I'll continue to fight off whoever claims that a 4th gen can somehow beat a 5th gen. (Not a magazine stat, either. Accomplished by someone here at the org with a stock 5spd GXE).
So far, the best 0-60 I've seen someone do with a 4th gen was 6.8, afaik.
So far, the best 0-60 I've seen someone do with a 4th gen was 6.8, afaik.
and having xx more peak hp/tq doesn't really mean squat in daily driving and qtr mile times, those are dependent on power curves. Hence 4th gen 5spds can stay even with newer more power accords (from certain speeds)
just from racing the track and not some illegal street race, 4th gen 5spds are indeed faster because the USIM offers a nice meaty power band with a lighter weight car. However the 5th gen does nicely by itself. I raced a 4th gen auto with all bolt ons at the track with only an intake and ECU and he only had me by 1/2 car in the 1/8th mile and 1 car in the 1/4 mile. We ran one from a 10 mph roll to negate launching differences at a private track with the same outcome. On the highway, I had him from a half car from 80-110mph.
11-22-2004, 06:24 PM
#36
Exactly. Thirty-seven more peak HP doesn't mean much by itself. Torque matters more than HP off the line. As Larrio suggested, real world experience is what ultimately counts. The general consensus for several years on the Org has been that a 4.x gen could take a 5.0 gen stock, SE for SE, GLE for GLE, GXE (15s) for GXE (16s). The 4th gen is smaller, lighter and as powerful except at the top end.
Likewise, the comment
is way off the mark. A "half car from 80-110MPH" is not a whole lot, especially at such high speeds.
Likewise, the comment
the 5th gen owns the 4th gen at the top end
11-22-2004, 06:39 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,701
You're telling me that a 4th gen, with a disadvantage of 32hp can "by a hair" beat a 5th gen?
I don't really care, but don't get all emotional about your cars. Dont magazine race. Grow up people. These are family sedans not race cars. But at least give this guy correct info. The 4th gen is quicker off the line and has a great power curve. Peak hp mean little in the real world. And again, both are fine cars that will last a long time. The 4th gen is a much better bang for your buck. If looks/image are that important you're shopping for the wrong car altogether.
11-22-2004, 06:42 PM
#38
Originally Posted by VQuick
A "half car from 80-110MPH" is not a whole lot, especially at such high speeds.
11-22-2004, 08:29 PM
#40
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
VQuick, since you are not too far off from where I live... how bout we do a friendly little 0-155MPH race, I have a close to stock GXE 5spd, that weights in about the same as a 95 GXE 5spd....