Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

I have been looking for options for big brakes. My current brakes fade like a mother and are almost worthless after a few hard stops. I have looked at all the options I can find and a couple of frankecar's setups seem to be the best value but I would like to get some info on the Top Element Tuning bbk kit.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Frankencar has bbk for sale? How much do you want to spend. Top's kits are well over $2000

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

You must do some pretty major driving ... My brakes aren't that bad, show some fade but with some good pads you should be ok unless you autoX. On Frankens website tehy have them listed there, and they loo really good and at a good price too ...

http://www.frankencar.com/products/4...es/combo-b.htm



Not sure how active Frankecar is these days though. I know tehy still have their B-pipes / intakes f/s

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

the most cost-effective option is to upgrade to the rotora and calipers from the 6th gen maxima (bigger rotors, bigger calipers), which can be done for a grand total of around $400, if not less. They bolt directly on to the 5th gen maxima......so, while it's not a "true" 2/4-piston BBK, it is most definitely an upgrade over stock.

These will also fit under your OEM 2003 SE 17's, unlike most other BBKs.

for more information about this see this thread:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....h+gen+calipers

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I was looking at their combo C with the 6 piston will wood calipers and the 13"x1.25" rotors. I was wondering about the weight of the Top Element Tuning kit I was also wondering if the do just the front wheels or back as well (I thought I remembered a page with a 4 wheel kit) I would also like to know what kind of rotors they use. I am fairly sure they use ap racing calipers.

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

I would rather just upgrade once, I dont see any point of taking the cheap approach now only to upgrade again later. I have big plans for my max but as of now I cant stop it consistently. I also dont like the idea of using 6th gen rotors because I hear they warp just as bad as ours do. I am tired of making 4or 5 hard stops and having my car vibrate when I try to stop.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

why the he// do you need 6 pistons? I can see 6cylinders ... I'm doing and agree w/ what irish44j has done ..

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

One would be better served by lowering the upgrade cost of the front AND upgrading the rears VS spending the whole wad on some very expensive front brakes. Proper brake bias will do alot more in improving the brake dist performance than just huge front brakes.

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

Why would we need 6 cyl any more than we need 6 pot calipers. It is all about performance. I am a little more concerned with stoping than going fast.


I plan to upgrade the back as well, I just need to find the hardware.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

You wont ever push those 6 pistons to their limit in the max, and as jeff said the bias will be off as well. But at least post pics when you're done.

scopium

top element tunning kit is by far the best kit ...this is for the big boys

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Why is that??????

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

Because they ignore brake bias changes, like real racers do...

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

it really depends what your goals are, these brakes can easily be overkill for you just in price. And what jeff said, proper brake bias is important along with piston size, # of pistons, and brake pad area.

EDIT: and lets not get into this argument again. The T.E.T brake kit is using the same family of calipers as the stillen AP kit, which is obviously not disregarding brake bias (they actually have a brake dyno and calibration machine on premises). I'm not selling the kit nor am I saying its the best because everyone has a different opinion. Its just another option on the market

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

Hey...your car, I'm just throwing out other options. I will note though, that the 6th gens are NOT having warping problems, as many people think. The problem the 6th gens have is that the OEM pads transfer material to the rotors, causing the rotors to FEEL like they're warped. The warping rotors is an urban legend that most people don't understand. The metal is not itself warping, in most cases....it's pad material transfer and buildup. If you torque your lugs correctly and use better pads, the problem will be solved.

Example:
With my OEM brakes, I "warped" them, or so I thought (heavy braking vibration). Replaced them with another set, but kept the old rotors. At a point, I had to take the new rotors off and put the old ones back on, which had been sitting idle for 6 months.

When I picked up the old ones to carry them out the the car, a sh1tload of pad material flaked off of the faces of the rotors - I mean ALOT of it. When I took the rotors off the car originally, I didn't see anything on it - the pad material when heated is clear and invisible........it was a mess later on, the pad material had turned translucent and could be seen coating the entire rotor...thicker in some areas than others (there's your warpage). After hitting the rotor a few times with a rubber mallet to knock off all this crap, I put the rotors back on, and "magically" there was no more shimmy, shake, or vibration.

If you took your old rotors off for a few months, let the pad material "dry" (for lack of a better word), you'd find the same thing.

As to the 6th gen rotors and your plans - I autocross my maxima, and drive the DC beltway daily, where 80-0-80-0 stops are the NORM. No problems to date....

again though, if you want overkill front brakes (and they do certainly look nice)....who am I to stop you from spending a couple grand...not my money

BTW, this is not saying you will not have an improvement with a true multi-piston BBK, this is just saying it's not as "necessary" as many people think for everyday driving...- unless you are road racing ALOT

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I have to disagree on this. I have not seen any technical data indicating Stillen addresses the brake bias issue with their bb kits. Sure they might have a brake dyno. But what were the results??

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

i don't have the brake bias calculations on me, but i've seen the excel spreadsheet that Andy made. Now I don't think that every company is going to be posting up every dimension and spec of their products and testing just to prove to others that they are superior.

but if you go to www.apracing.com and look for a the CP5200 familiy road caliper you can calculate that the piston specs given the pad area do not adversely affect brake bias too far from stock (in comparison with other bbk's available for the maxima also). Another thing to note is that no one ever brings up the brake bias of the brembo GT kit which has even less specifications listed than the AP's

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Question. If the bias "isn't adversely affected", then how is the front braking improved? You can state that the fade resistance is much better, feel could be greatly improved but if you are stating that ap greatly increases the clamping force though increased piston area/bigger rotors, then bias MUST be changed. And the more "powerful" the brake system is in the front, the more the frt/rear bias will be affected. Especially when ap/brembo/etc.. kits don't use different master cylinders or use diff biasing systems.

Now you guys have HUGE 13" rotors and pretty big multi-piston calipers.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

uh-oh!

Where's DrivenEF9 when you need him....weren't you three (larrio, Jeff, Driven) the ones who had the 6-billion post thread on BBK and brake bias?

that was a fun thread. I think I had like 40 posts in it myself

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

honestly jeff, you probably know more about brakes than I do. I just know what i'm told or read on my own.

I said that bias isn't adversely affected from stock in comparison to other bbk's such as 300zx to z rotors, 300zx to 3000gt rotors, 300zx to cobra rotors, 300zx to 2k4 maxima rotors. Adversely changed meaning that the stock bias is still relatively the same as all the other bbk's, especially the brembo GT kit, which has the closest specs to AP although not listed nor test by brembo

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Okay that was a bit unclear Larry. That's a nice way of saying that the brake bias is just as bad as any other front only bbk that's out there. Well, I'd have to disagree with the 300z + Z rotors and they only use the same small dia rotors as the maxima have. So no torque advantage added. And some of the others use a 12.x-ish size rotor that's smaller than the 13" Cobra and the 13"-ish ap kit rotors.

AP kit components are all top quality if that's what the customer is looking for. Paired with a proper rear bbk, it would be a great kit. I'll say that

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

AP 5200 series kit with 13inch rotors and matt's rear kit has the stock brake bias, calculated by matt himself.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

as with the previous threads on this topic, it should be noted that brake bias in diffferent driving conditions can be [EDIT] (somewhat) modulated depending on what pads you are using in the front and back. I use Hawk HPS front and OEM rears for normal driving, but use Bendix titaniums in the back for auto-x (since they bite harder and quicker at higher temps)...essentially this slightly skews the bias more toward the rear with this done. For regular driving, I prefer a little more bias up front.....

Jeff, what tool would I use to change my brake lines? (hint hint) just kidding!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

irish I don't know about "greatly" but StopTech DOES indicate it's one of the factors affecting bias.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

heh, yeah bit of a slip there...I said "greatly" at the top and "slightly" at the bottom changing....

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

Since we are talking big brakes here I'm going to chime in. I have TTZ calipers with Matt's relocating brackets and lines + 04 Maxima rotors From IRotors in cross drilled and slotted variety- got them for really cheap brand new. IRotors with Hawks HPS and TTZ calipers tend to WARP very eassy, it seems as if the rotor was actually flexing due to soft material used. After a hard stop the rotor tends to scrape on the pad when turning- in a on off type of motion which leads me to belive that the rotor is actually warping under tremendous pressure. These rotors are VERY noisy after a hard stop, and make a few stops and the brakes just don't stop well at all. I have ran Hawk HPS with OEM rotors for 60K miles (2 pad sets) and I never had this problem, so I don't think its the pad, the calipers are not sticking, its these POS rotors.

Matt is making me a set of custom 2 piece rotors for the kit that should save me from runing 22LBS EACH front rotors to half that. The brake bias with the TTZ front calipers on 04 Max rotors and Hawk HPS pads is pretty bad- rear brakes feel like they are not doing ANYTHING. As a matter a fact I think I could go 200K miles on the same set of rear pads. I am going to upgrade to the rear Blehmco kit very soon- month or so.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

well the irotors feature rotors that are made in china vs. brembo, which is what automax_95 sells

stillen has even stopped using AP rotors on their maxima/altima AP kits to lower the cost. Not sure what the effects of this will be in the long run

Liquid_pjear

iTrader: (2)

I understand about brake bias trust me, I plan to upgrade the rear too. Can anyone tell me about the T.E.T. kit or where I can get some info and prices?

HNDA ETR

iTrader: (10)

I got my BBK from Stainless Steel Brake Co.: SSBC <-Linky

I was going to get Matt's BBK for the rear, but he calculated that the SSBC BBK kept the f/r brake bias pretty close to stock. He said that using his rear BBK would put more bias towards the rear and he didn't recommend that I get his kit (have you ever heard of a seller telling someone that they shouldn't but their stuff? )

Anyways, this info just reinforces the point that Icey points out in this post: Clicky Linky

So for those of you looking for a BBK and are concerned about the f/r bias, you should check out the SSBC BBK.

- Stolen from here: http://www.stoptech.com/faq/


I love my BBK... I just wish SSBC didn't design them so well... then I could have gotten a BBK for the rears also! (But I did get SSBC slotted rotors for the rears... )