3.5 oil consumption
07-25-2005, 02:20 PM
#41
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
I would look at valve seals on a VQ, I noticed one 4th gen this weekend while started up was puffn out a little bit of blue smoke that smelled like oil- for just a second. This indicates bad oil seals on the valves. SR20s when get old burn oil through the valve seals - sometimes.
Heh heh... great to meet you Mike! 
07-25-2005, 05:25 PM
#42
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,875
Doesnt the increase in the displacement of the engine also increase the size of the cylinder which in turn changes how much cylinder walls you have?
Isnt the block the same as the VQ30 except bored out?
No doubt the VQ30 and the VQ35 is similar, but why is it the the VQ30 is smoother than the VQ35? I have both sitting on my driveway, the VQ30 is definitely smoother than both my 2k2 VQ35 (deceased) and my 2k3 VQ35.
That being said, oil consumption seems to be an issue aroudn here. I am not the only one going back to the dealer for this.
Isnt the block the same as the VQ30 except bored out?
No doubt the VQ30 and the VQ35 is similar, but why is it the the VQ30 is smoother than the VQ35? I have both sitting on my driveway, the VQ30 is definitely smoother than both my 2k2 VQ35 (deceased) and my 2k3 VQ35.
That being said, oil consumption seems to be an issue aroudn here. I am not the only one going back to the dealer for this.
07-25-2005, 05:34 PM
#43
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,042
Originally Posted by foobeca
I'm contemplating getting a 02 6spd and I've read from some people here with oil consumption problems with the 3.5 and >80-100k miles. In general, are these isolated cases or does the 3.5 really have a fundamental problem with oil consumption with higher mileage?
It doesn't burn any oil, no difference in level between changes so far (change oil every 3k miles).
Peace.
07-25-2005, 06:14 PM
#44
we have plastic valve cover gaskets which need to be replaced cause they leak. i found oil in my 5th cylinder spark plug resevoir. i know its not much oil loss but there is still a loss and that is not good at all.
07-25-2005, 06:54 PM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 117
I dont believe there are any TSBs for oil consumption. My '03 has had Mobil1 5w-30 since 1500 miles and has yet to leak a drop, although I would like it too since I work at a dealer, and if they replaced the motor for that, I'd have a free, good running 3.5 to tinker with 
instead of the 3.5 in my garage that ate a screw... 
instead of the 3.5 in my garage that ate a screw...
07-25-2005, 08:21 PM
#46
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1
3.5 oil consumption
I to have a 3.5. I now have 72,500 miles on it and it uses no oil. It is posible that the max whiches uses 3 quarts of mobile within 4000 miles has not been allowed to break in properly. I would suggest that you stop putting the mobil sen_ in for a while, use conventional oil and see what happens. I also had a 99 Max with 138,000 miles on it, no oil usage. best engine I ever had.
07-25-2005, 10:09 PM
#47
Seoul Man
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,010
Originally Posted by MiniRX7
No doubt the VQ30 and the VQ35 is similar, but why is it the the VQ30 is smoother than the VQ35? I have both sitting on my driveway, the VQ30 is definitely smoother than both my 2k2 VQ35 (deceased) and my 2k3 VQ35.
The VQ30 and VQ35 are both V6 engines with similar internal designs. One key difference is their respective displacements. The VQ30 displaces 3.0 liters, and the VQ35 displaces 3.5 liters. The two engines share the same V-angle and firing order, and they have an equal number of cylinders, so they must produce the same number of combustions per crankshaft revolution. So far, the two engines sound very similar, right? This is where the displacement difference comes into play. Even though the two engines are producing the same number of explosions (combustions) per crankshaft revolution, the combustions occurring in each of the VQ35's cylinders are larger and more powerful than the ones occurring in each of the VQ30's cylinders. This increases the violence of the end-to-end vibrations in the VQ35. You can read more about the different kinds of vibrations associated with internal combustion engines below.
YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTION HAS BEEN ANSWERED. ALL OF THE INFO BELOW IS STILL RELATED TO ENGINE SMOOTHNESS, BUT IT IS PURELY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE WHO WISH TO READ MORE ON THE ISSUE. PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK, AND BRACE YOURSELF FOR ENDLESS RAMBLING!
Displacement is one of the least important factors in determining an engine's smoothness. The most effective way of making an engine run smoother is to choose an engine design that reduces vibrations. Different engine configurations produce different sets of interacting forces.
1. The "flat" or "boxer" engine (like Subaru's boxer four cylinder) is one of the smoothest types of engines, and it produces almost no vibrations regardless of how many cylinders it has.
2. The "inline" or "straight" engine (like the I4 in Sentras and Civics, the I5 used in some Volvos, and the I6 used by BMW and Jeep) may or may not be smooth, depending on its number of cylinders. Odd-numbered inline engines (I3, I5) don't usually display vertical or horizontal vibration, but they often have end-to-end vibration. I4 engines don't have the end-to-end vibration of I3 and I5 engines, but they display vertical vibration because the two pistons that are moving up travel at a different speed than the two pistons that are moving down. This is why many I4 engines, especially the larger-displacement I4s like the QR25DE in the Altima and the Sentra, have balance shafts to dampen their vertical vibrations. I6 engines are special, because they can be viewed as two mirrored I3 engines. I6 engines, like I3 engines, don't have vertical or horizontal vibration, and instead of one set of end-to-end vibrations, an I6 has two sets of end-to-end vibrations centered around cylinder #2 and cylinder #5, which cancel each other. That's one reason why BMW I6 engines are always praised for being "turbine smooth" and refined.
3. "V" engines are also special. I will only discuss V6 engines here, since V8 engines are a whole other can of worms. The main type of vibration from a V6 engine is end-to-end vibration similar to the vibration from an I3 or I5, and V6 engines require twice as many camshafts as I6 engines. V6 engines are generally inferior to I6 engines in terms of friction, smoothness, and production cost. The main reason why so many automakers use them is because they can take up less space than I6 engines, which helps automakers reduce costs elsewhere in the car. This is especially important for a front-wheel-drive vehicle. Some of the vibration of a V6 can be canceled by a balancer shaft.
07-28-2005, 04:20 AM
#49
Originally Posted by BP
that's great. truth is neither of us are nissan techs or engineers so your diagnosis of the problem is just conjecture.
my point is you're making a very large scale assumption by saying there's a fundamental problem with the 3.5L engine design and leading others to believe this is a very common problem when it's not.
seeing as you don't know what's really causing the problem it's irresponsible and mis-information for you to warn others that we'll eventually have the same problem you're having. that's all. good luck with your issue.
my point is you're making a very large scale assumption by saying there's a fundamental problem with the 3.5L engine design and leading others to believe this is a very common problem when it's not.
seeing as you don't know what's really causing the problem it's irresponsible and mis-information for you to warn others that we'll eventually have the same problem you're having. that's all. good luck with your issue.
As you can see, they're ranked first in the nation for engineering. I think I just qualified my background. Oh, and I grew up in Indiana where we had nothing better to do other than a) plow fields, b) drink beer or c) make cars go VROOOMMM!!!
Now, as far as where the engine is losing oil: there's only one of three places where it can go if it's not leaking on the ground: the rings, the valvesl, or the emissions control system. The valves are possible, but since there's little to no pressure build-up in the valve cover (I rev'd it with the oil-fill cap off and there was no pressure at all at WOT) when I rev the engine, that's pretty much eliminated. I checked the PCV and inspected my intake for oil. Eliminated. Now, I'm left with one thing: the rings. Now, on modern engines which are designed to go 200k+ miles, the rings and piston sleeves are manufactured to last a long time, through a lot of revs. In fact, if you do the math, they should last through about 600 million revolutions or so (200k miles at 3k rpms). Ford and Chevy can build them that way. Why can't Nissan get them to last 100k? Unless Houdini is in my engine making my oil dissapear...
07-28-2005, 04:34 AM
#50
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 43
The rings seems like the most likely theory. Nissan probably switched suppliers for the rings and as in the case of the QR25DE, used a "harder" ring witch required a more "babied" break in period to seal properly. There are many documented cases of QR25DEs burning oil, so perhaps for a period Nissan had used the same supplier for the VQ35de, who knows.
07-28-2005, 05:05 AM
#51
Originally Posted by GBAUER
Actually, I went to school at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology for Mechanical Engineering. Look them up. Better yet, here: http://www.rose-hulman.edu/news/articles/usnews05.htm
As you can see, they're ranked first in the nation for engineering. I think I just qualified my background. Oh, and I grew up in Indiana where we had nothing better to do other than a) plow fields, b) drink beer or c) make cars go VROOOMMM!!!
Now, as far as where the engine is losing oil: there's only one of three places where it can go if it's not leaking on the ground: the rings, the valvesl, or the emissions control system. The valves are possible, but since there's little to no pressure build-up in the valve cover (I rev'd it with the oil-fill cap off and there was no pressure at all at WOT) when I rev the engine, that's pretty much eliminated. I checked the PCV and inspected my intake for oil. Eliminated. Now, I'm left with one thing: the rings. Now, on modern engines which are designed to go 200k+ miles, the rings and piston sleeves are manufactured to last a long time, through a lot of revs. In fact, if you do the math, they should last through about 600 million revolutions or so (200k miles at 3k rpms). Ford and Chevy can build them that way. Why can't Nissan get them to last 100k? Unless Houdini is in my engine making my oil dissapear...
As you can see, they're ranked first in the nation for engineering. I think I just qualified my background. Oh, and I grew up in Indiana where we had nothing better to do other than a) plow fields, b) drink beer or c) make cars go VROOOMMM!!!
Now, as far as where the engine is losing oil: there's only one of three places where it can go if it's not leaking on the ground: the rings, the valvesl, or the emissions control system. The valves are possible, but since there's little to no pressure build-up in the valve cover (I rev'd it with the oil-fill cap off and there was no pressure at all at WOT) when I rev the engine, that's pretty much eliminated. I checked the PCV and inspected my intake for oil. Eliminated. Now, I'm left with one thing: the rings. Now, on modern engines which are designed to go 200k+ miles, the rings and piston sleeves are manufactured to last a long time, through a lot of revs. In fact, if you do the math, they should last through about 600 million revolutions or so (200k miles at 3k rpms). Ford and Chevy can build them that way. Why can't Nissan get them to last 100k? Unless Houdini is in my engine making my oil dissapear...
I'm going to Bucknell for the same thing. Where are you working now? I hope you're making good use of that degree!
07-28-2005, 06:03 AM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 458
I put about 5-6k miles between changes, I don't burn a drop.
26k on the motor.
The amount of oil some guys talk about burning would be blowing blue smoke out of the tail pipe. If you were burning 2 quarts a week, you would look like a crop duster going down the road.
I think a lot of this is related to the really crappy dip strick that is easily misread. WHen I do an oil change, I have to wait 30 minutes to get an accurate reading from the damn thing, I'm pretty sure one of the oil returns go right over the dipstick so it gets all over and has to settle down before you can get a correct reading.
26k on the motor.
The amount of oil some guys talk about burning would be blowing blue smoke out of the tail pipe. If you were burning 2 quarts a week, you would look like a crop duster going down the road.
I think a lot of this is related to the really crappy dip strick that is easily misread. WHen I do an oil change, I have to wait 30 minutes to get an accurate reading from the damn thing, I'm pretty sure one of the oil returns go right over the dipstick so it gets all over and has to settle down before you can get a correct reading.
07-28-2005, 06:04 AM
#53
Originally Posted by GBAUER
Ford and Chevy can build them that way. Why can't Nissan get them to last 100k? ...
Stating Nissan can't is vague, stating they may not on the VQ35 is a better assumption ... Nissan makes great, reliable engines, maybe not the 3.5L, but definately the 3.0L and SR20 ...
07-28-2005, 06:19 AM
#54
Originally Posted by GBAUER
Actually, if you bother to think a little logically here, you might find just the opposite. Rubber and most other soft materials tend to break down over time. This means more stuff breaking over more time. Not to mention that it takes time for things to corrode. Trust me, ask anyone locally, nobody can believe my car has as many miles on it as it does. I keep it as clean outside the engine as in. I didn't rev over 4k for the first 1,000 miles (and I drove every last one of those first 1,000 miles). It's pretty darn obvious what the problem is. Ya, I have 120k miles. And, yes, that's not normal, but, then again, if you looked under my hood or in my engine, the fact that you can still practically eat off every surface isn't normal either and should attest to my maintenance. The 3.5 is a modified 3.0, sure, but those modifications were to the very same areas that seem to be having poblems. Coincidence?
Oh, and I've checked the PCV. It isn't that either.
Oh, and I've checked the PCV. It isn't that either.
I drive a little under 30,000 miles per year, mostly highway and I am willing to bet my engine is in much better condition than my neighbor who has an 03 but has to commute into Philadelphia everyday.
07-28-2005, 06:32 AM
#55
Originally Posted by GBAUER
Actually, I went to school at Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology for Mechanical Engineering. Look them up. Better yet, here: http://www.rose-hulman.edu/news/articles/usnews05.htm
As you can see, they're ranked first in the nation for engineering. I think I just qualified my background. Oh, and I grew up in Indiana where we had nothing better to do other than a) plow fields, b) drink beer or c) make cars go VROOOMMM!!!
As you can see, they're ranked first in the nation for engineering. I think I just qualified my background. Oh, and I grew up in Indiana where we had nothing better to do other than a) plow fields, b) drink beer or c) make cars go VROOOMMM!!!
Originally Posted by GBAUER
Now, as far as where the engine is losing oil: there's only one of three places where it can go if it's not leaking on the ground: the rings, the valvesl, or the emissions control system. The valves are possible, but since there's little to no pressure build-up in the valve cover (I rev'd it with the oil-fill cap off and there was no pressure at all at WOT) when I rev the engine, that's pretty much eliminated. I checked the PCV and inspected my intake for oil. Eliminated. Now, I'm left with one thing: the rings. Now, on modern engines which are designed to go 200k+ miles, the rings and piston sleeves are manufactured to last a long time, through a lot of revs. In fact, if you do the math, they should last through about 600 million revolutions or so (200k miles at 3k rpms). Ford and Chevy can build them that way. Why can't Nissan get them to last 100k? Unless Houdini is in my engine making my oil dissapear...
Originally Posted by BP
my point is you're making a very large scale assumption by saying there's a fundamental problem with the 3.5L engine design and leading others to believe this is a very common problem when it's not.
07-28-2005, 08:25 AM
#56
Originally Posted by phobix
The rings seems like the most likely theory. Nissan probably switched suppliers for the rings and as in the case of the QR25DE, used a "harder" ring witch required a more "babied" break in period to seal properly. There are many documented cases of QR25DEs burning oil, so perhaps for a period Nissan had used the same supplier for the VQ35de, who knows.
07-28-2005, 08:26 AM
#57
Originally Posted by TheBigDu
I salute you, sir. That is a damn good school.
I'm going to Bucknell for the same thing. Where are you working now? I hope you're making good use of that degree!
I'm going to Bucknell for the same thing. Where are you working now? I hope you're making good use of that degree!
07-28-2005, 08:28 AM
#58
i guess we'll have to take a wait and see approach to see if this is really an epidemic or happens on a small scale. good luck digging into your issue. keep us informed.[/QUOTE]
That's why I've been looking at the other forums with the 3.5.
Incidentally, if you read my thread about the timing chain rattle, I discuss the oil problem. I think I may have temporarily slowed or stopped it.
That's why I've been looking at the other forums with the 3.5.
Incidentally, if you read my thread about the timing chain rattle, I discuss the oil problem. I think I may have temporarily slowed or stopped it.
07-28-2005, 09:25 AM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 885
105k miles on my engine,i drive about 70 miles a day to and from work. I use about a quart of oil every 2 months. No problems, not blue smoke , notta...i also read guys that the 3.5 also consumes oil , spoke to a Nissan tech and he confirmed this too. It doesn't guzzle it, but it does use alittle in everyday operation. So don't panic, it normal for our engines.....
07-28-2005, 10:29 AM
#62
Originally Posted by Kevlo911
If the oil is comming through the rings, wouldnt there be ALOT of blue smoke?
07-28-2005, 10:31 AM
#63
Just thought I'd chime in, I just read most of this post and now I dont feel like such an idiot. I had noticed a rattling sound coming from my engine for a couple days and when I checked the oil, there was probably about 1 quart in there. I thought that maybe it all leaked out somewhere, but there was no sign of leaking anywhere. Then I began to think that maybe I was an idiot when I did my last change and didn't put any in! 
Now i just need to figure out what to do with this thing. I'm glad that I'm not the only one now.
Now i just need to figure out what to do with this thing. I'm glad that I'm not the only one now.
07-28-2005, 10:33 AM
#64
Originally Posted by DaBoxSE
Just thought I'd chime in, I just read most of this post and now I dont feel like such an idiot. I had noticed a rattling sound coming from my engine for a couple days and when I checked the oil, there was probably about 1 quart in there. I thought that maybe it all leaked out somewhere, but there was no sign of leaking anywhere. Then I began to think that maybe I was an idiot when I did my last change and didn't put any in! Now i just need to figure out what to do with this thing. I'm glad that I'm not the only one now.
Now i just need to figure out what to do with this thing. I'm glad that I'm not the only one now.
07-28-2005, 10:39 AM
#66
Originally Posted by foobeca
If it's rattling, it could be a rod about to break. You're hosed dude.
07-28-2005, 11:44 AM
#67
Originally Posted by foobeca
If it's rattling, it could be a rod about to break. You're hosed dude
Common on 95's @ start-up as well...
Never undermine someone who knows
tehy're talking about and make an uneducated & misinformed opinion and suggest someone is "hosed" ... 
07-28-2005, 11:54 AM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 885
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
What mileage do you use that 2 quarts in? Every ~1500 miles?
1500-1800- depending on weekend travel to. I don't think it a problem using a quart every 2 months, now if i was using 3-4 quarts in every two months then that would be serious problem. I have been using synthetic 10-30 ever since ownership of my car.
07-28-2005, 11:56 AM
#69
Originally Posted by Daily Driver2k2
1500-1800- depending on weekend travel to. I don't think it a problem using a quart every 2 months, now if i was using 3-4 quarts in every two months then that would be serious problem. I have been using synthetic 10-30 ever since ownership of my car.
07-28-2005, 11:57 AM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 885
Originally Posted by GBAUER
Timing chain rattle. Common on the 3.5 even with all the oil in it. Read my rattle post for more info.
Very true...very common with 3.5's. Funny though, i never hear it after a fresh oil change.... ususally happens when i need to change my oil....don't know what that suggest.
07-28-2005, 11:59 AM
#71
Originally Posted by Daily Driver2k2
Very true...very common with 3.5's. Funny though, i never hear it after a fresh oil change.... ususally happens when i need to change my oil....don't know what that suggest.
I'm too lazy to type it all up again.
07-28-2005, 12:01 PM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 885
Originally Posted by GBAUER
My problem is that I drive that much or more every week. Seems like I'm spending as much on oil as gas anymore!
How much quarts of oil do you go through? Then again if you drive alot your going to consume more then compared to a person just going down the street and back to his house.
When i had my TTZ , i live 10 minutes from my job, and every store known to man was 5 minutes away from my house. I changed my oil twice a year because i didn't have to drive my car anywhere far.
07-28-2005, 12:10 PM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 885
Originally Posted by GBAUER
That means your oil level is low and the oil's dirty. Read this thread: http://www.forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=419816
I'm too lazy to type it all up again.
I'm too lazy to type it all up again.
Intresting...posiibly more dirty then low, i keep my oil topped off. read your thread and it seems valid, thanks. Oh i learned the hard way when i blew my motor in my civic by running low to no motor oil. Was lazy and irresponsible back then,hardest lesson to learn when your about half way through college and making minum wage and no one around has engine knowledge.
After that episode in my life , i keep my cars topped off and i check them all the time. Don't have time to be waisting my money on engines....
07-28-2005, 12:33 PM
#74
Originally Posted by Daily Driver2k2
My god ..i thought i was the only one who drove alot.
How much quarts of oil do you go through? Then again if you drive alot your going to consume more then compared to a person just going down the street and back to his house.
When i had my TTZ , i live 10 minutes from my job, and every store known to man was 5 minutes away from my house. I changed my oil twice a year because i didn't have to drive my car anywhere far.
How much quarts of oil do you go through? Then again if you drive alot your going to consume more then compared to a person just going down the street and back to his house.
When i had my TTZ , i live 10 minutes from my job, and every store known to man was 5 minutes away from my house. I changed my oil twice a year because i didn't have to drive my car anywhere far.
I was adding a quart every other fill-up, which meant about 1.5 a week (a quart every 700 miles). Now, after my little episode, it's down to .5 a week (one every 2k miles). I'd say it's drastically reduced.
07-28-2005, 12:53 PM
#75
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Originally Posted by Daily Driver2k2
My god ..i thought i was the only one who drove alot.
How much quarts of oil do you go through? Then again if you drive alot your going to consume more then compared to a person just going down the street and back to his house.
How much quarts of oil do you go through? Then again if you drive alot your going to consume more then compared to a person just going down the street and back to his house.
07-28-2005, 02:07 PM
#76
Originally Posted by GBAUER
I was adding a quart every other fill-up, which meant about 1.5 a week (a quart every 700 miles). Now, after my little episode, it's down to .5 a week (one every 2k miles). I'd say it's drastically reduced.
Originally Posted by GBAUER
4) regarding the oil consumption: I tried using stop leak. The car ran like crap within a quarter mile. Threw a code within 10 miles. Took it to autozone to get the code pulled: multiple misfire and cam shaft position acutator. That lead to the oil flush mentioned above. Long story short: 2,000 miles and little to no oil loss.
07-28-2005, 02:12 PM
#77
Originally Posted by BP
just for clarity's sake, does this mean the oil consumption issue isn't really as much of a (fundamental engine design) problem as originally thought? and i'm not trying to be sarcastic, really trying to talk (type) this situation out. do you think the flush fixed it or maybe a different weight/brand oil was used in the refill which doesn't seep as readily as the previous oil? what do you think fixed your issue?
07-28-2005, 02:27 PM
#80
Originally Posted by GBAUER
never heard of it, but after my experience, I wouldn't recommend any stop-leak type additives!