yup, i ordered my from sportcompactonly.com and got them in less than a week. i paid $560 shipped. very happy with going with HS, they are going in next weekend after my o2 sims come in...

EDIT:

brian, can you post pics of your gen 2s? i only saw a pic of one of the primaries...

 

Sure, I'd be glad to. Sorry we don't have any professionally-shot photos yet, but these will give you an idea.

Here's the entire set:




Here's a shot that illustrates the hand-built 3-1 merge collector we're using. Most headers use a crude swaged tube collector like the one on our NZ set, but we upgraded to this design. Power is made here.



Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

Obviously we (Cattman Performance) are going through a bit of a rough patch here with this critique of our headers, but there is absolutely nothing here that can't and won't be overcome. I would simply ask everyone to keep our 8-year track record in mind. We aren't perfect, but when we get thrown from the horse, we dust ourselves off and get back on, with typically positive results.

A few of you have been around long enough to recall a batch of 100 y-pipes we made a few years ago. After selling all of them, it turned out they had bad flex sections and the whole lot failed. We extended our warranty period by 50% and took care of every one - all repairs and all shipping were paid by us. It was a PR nightmare and it just about killed us financially, but we bit the bullet and took care of any problems, and our reputation recovered quickly

We didn't gain the reputation we have today by making crappy parts and ignoring customer input. Although this sort of process isn't pleasant for the business owner, its occasionally part of the territory and it doesn't have to be a disaster. I'll try to use this as an opportunity for self-improvement.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

Man i was kinda looking forward to the gen2's....maybe ill go with hs...


EDIT: I just read brian's response. I have cattman exhaust headers back (y-pipe, catback exhaust) no problems except for when it was my fault. Im still unsure about headers im still leaning toward cattman as of now, i want to hear how others install's go.....

 

this thread made me sort of wonder what was going on, but like Joel said before, i wanted to wait for Brians response. And like Mass Media, I have a Cattman Y Pipe and Cattman Catback, and am seriously considering these headers. I think its very big and loyal of him to come in here and explain himself, admit that there were issues with the holes, and possibly the short bolts, and that hes already corrected them. of course, i cant comment too much, because i dont have the actual headers yet, but i also remember when i first got my max, i read threads on here about someone having an awful time installing HS headers, that they were different from his. i dont wanna fuel any fire, but the cost of cattman headers may be worth it to me *when* these issues are worked out in the new batch, and if the power gains are what i hope they will be over HS.

 

People are getting 0 Gains and fitment problems with the headers and he isisnt doing anything except explaining the problems BlackBird VQ went over already, i rather pay $525 and get Hotshot

 

Maybe you should look at my thread, http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=436779

before stating they make "0 gains". They make quite nice gains. I will be dynoing again soon to confirm my previous results.



you need to master teh search.

 

I think he means "0 gains" over other aftermarket headers.

 

I think they are starting to look much better. Comparing the hotshots to the Cattman. The second run of the cattmans look like they are built much better, especially where they are connected to the block



They dont need to be shiny to get the job done, they are down in a dirty engine bay. As long as it does free up that exhaust system well.
Which design do you think will last longer?

 

Have you seen proof yet that a properly tuned Maxima does not get gains over the old set of headers or the Hotshots? If not, then please don't post false information.

His explaining the issues can mean different things to different people... but the fact that he's willing to come out here and explain, in detail, the problems they are having tells me that he is not making excuses for anything, but rather, attempting to find ways to rectify the problem. But this is what I think and I'm not saying that this a fact either.

Maybe you see things differently, but think about this, how many times have you seen Warpspeed or Budget or any other firm come here and try to explain the "difficulties" that they have run into when producing parts for us?

Additionally, we all know that the first generation headers fit perfectly, as do all Cattman's y-pipes, b-pipes, rears, and so on. Maybe give em some time, its a new fabricator and once they iron out the kinks, things should be better and there's no need to bash Brian personally especially with all that he has done for the Maxima aftermarket.

I know you guys are gonna say that I'm sucking up to Brian and Cattman... but no, I'm not. If I had to get headers now, I'd get Hotshots, I'll say it. I just think that one needs to have the grounds for criticism, which you do not. I understand that it is your preference to get Hotshots, esp at $525, but these are your unsubstantiated opinions of the headers so please don't post as though fact and don't attack someone personally based on your flawed interpretation of his motives.

 

Not to mention the fact that Brian helped me through the issues of my install. He said that if I did have any problems, that I would not be out on a limb and we would work together to solve the problem.

Please note - I am not a compensated endorser...

 

well i dont know about anyone else but the way i see it this just sounds like a couple small issues that have already been addressed by brian and RESOLVED. Hes obviously now aware of the issues as he just posted in this thread aswell. I also see the first post by blackbirdVQ to actually be quite harsh considering the circumstances, given he was prolly mad because of the things that he needed to take care of, but i still found no reason to be so harsh against Cattman. Another thing i found disturbing is that he didnt try to resolve these things with Cattman before posting this bashing type of thread. I think we all know that Cattman is not some ebay company like SMR and such that sell parts that dont fit, never to be seen or heard again. They have stood behind ALL of there imo excellent products sense theve been coming out. We all need to take into consideration that this is a brand new manufacturer of the header system and that i dont think we should jump the gun on this yet. As Brian said they actually haulted procduction of the new headers to get all the kinks worked out. I mean have you ever seen a company that is just starting out? there is always a TON of issues with there products until they get them worked over. I mean if you really think about it Cattman has been the big name in developing specifically Maxima parts sense the 90's. So if some newbie wants to read this thread and automatically think o ill never buy cattman headers because they suck just from seeing what the first 10 sets have come out like then theres somthing wrong there. I dont know about anyone else but if you havent relized at least for the 4th gens Cattman is the only producer of the equal length design that fits everything without modifacations. I for one plan on getting these Cattman headers as soon as the new batch comes out regardless of posts like these and i would hope others only feel the same way.

-Ryan

 

In my other post I accidently typed "I did not see gains"... that was a typo. I did see gains, substantial gains IMO. It revs to redline a lot faster and also sounds very sweet.

Tilley,
I wasn't aware you had other issues. I thought the holes for the flanges were the only issue. Oh yeah you had to remove the bracket for the rear mount as well. I don't know I mean you know better than I do since you installed it lol .

 

wow the header flanges on the new cattmans are hella thick. Maybe thats why the hardware didn't fit.

 

That wasent the part in question, it was the bolts and nuts for the headers to y pipe.

 

cattmans products have always been of the best quality and even if they havent, the problems have been fixed. brian posting here just shows that he stands behind his products and i dont doubt that whatever needs to be done to make them perfect, will be.

 

The bolts are not welded on the headers?

 

im assuming your refering to "studs" and no the headers do not have studs built in like the stock ones do, these have a nut and bolt combo which i think is user friendly as you can replace them at any time and not worry about it if you break one because they come right out with ese(sp?)

 

Well, seeing as how I went through a terror of an experience with a certain exhaust company about a year ago and still am unhappy, I applaud Brian for coming here to explain the issues openly for Org'ers to read. This is something that a certain company I dealt with would not do.....I have heard nothing but praise for Cattman's products and I would not hesitate to purchase from Brian (if I had the $$$). I am sure the issues specified in this thread will be resolved expediently and all parties will wind up satisfied.

 

My experience with cattman has always been a good one....anybody who has dealt with them can vouch for cattman....everytime I call their office and ask for Brian...he is readily available to immediately come to service...and he actually takes his time to answer throughly your questions....I am not suprised at all, for him to come into this thread, and answer all the above inperfections with the headers....truly a great company I've done business with, and will not hesitate for future purchases

 

Having both Cattman and HS exhaust products on my car I can say I love them both...

The Cattman Cat-back is flawless... I have no doubt in my mind that they WILL work out any fitment issue with the new headers. Dealing with Brian in the past about my cat-back was really easy, he always replied quickly to my email and he made sure I got my cat-back ASAP (small mix up between SCO and Cattman).

As far as the HS headers, I could not justify spending $850 on headers while HS had some for $550 and put down the same power...

I had a few fitment issues with the HS headers (one because they are ment for an 02-03), the main problem I had was an exhaust leak where the secondary meets the main cat. I called them and they were more than willing to do what it took to make me happy. They paid for it to goto another shop and have the flange fixed, if that would not work; they were ready to send me another secondary pipe. Its looks to me that in the pics of the newer HS headers they moved the O2 sensor up away from the compressor and they added a fancy new badge.

Both companies are great and take care of customers VERY well. If the Cattman headers were cheaper, I would have gone with them... I really think they are over priced while HS can make comparable headers for MUCH less.

Bashing either company is pointless, they are both great companies that take care of problems quick and easy... It all comes down to how much you have to spend and how loyal you are to a brand.

 

I didn't mean to come in here and bash the product to death and call Cattman- and Brian himself a thief or anything. But our problems where problems that could have been avoided if they have been tested BEFORE they where released. I mean taking a simple head stud, and sticking it through the holes in the flange to see that it doesn't fit in 3 of the 6 holes should be a indication right there that it will NOT fit on the cylinder heads.

As for the Ypipe (flex section) hitting the floor board. There IS NOT a heat shield around the area where the flex hits the floor. It is BARE floor board/exhaust tunnel. Really this IS an issue. It will wear out the flex pipe prematurely and at the same time grind the paint off the body creating a spot where rust can attack it and possibly rotten through with time- especially in the snow belt area. This NEEDS to be adressed as Eric told me hes getting some vibration in the floor board when backing up- cause the engine tilts towards the front of the car and exhaust raises up to hit the floor. Fix for this - is making the exit out of the Ypipe straight right into the exhaust, why make it more complicated with 2 extra bends where there is enough room for it to just shoot out straight right into the cat ?

Eric did call Brian in the middle of install and Brian was supprised that the 02 sensor wires had to be extended, and that we where the 1st people to report this. Simply put- I would like to see how Brians headers are installed on his 5.5 gen cause there is NO way you can install the O2 sensors in the provided bungs without lenghtening the wires. You need 3" of extra wire on both front AND rear manifolds to make this work. Both front and rear primary O2s are the same ones, and lenght of the wires is the same. You can swap the front with the rear bank O2 sensor without a problem- plugs are the same. In the factory setup the O2 sensors sit up high before the precat, and with headers those sensors get moved down after the collector merger.

I had a Cattman Ypipe on my car before, and it was a flexpipe nightmare. Brian took care of the 1st flexpipe that blew on my car only after being on the car for approx 4 months. Then 6 months later the new flex blew again and I had a muffler shop install a new flex which lasted bout 2 years. That one blew again, and I had another one put on. The little hanger which holds the Ypipe onto the subframe (looks like a triangle, rubber piece) broke off, and took a chunk of the pipe along with it leaving me with a Quarter coin size hole in there- sounded really nice. I welded the hole shut myself and 2 months later the Ypipe collector merger cracked.... After getting some Place Racing motor mounts I ditched the 4th flex pipe and got me a straight pipe welded inplace to keep it from blowing apart. At this point my Ypipe looked so hacked up that I finally broke down and got me some HS headers. Year has gone by since then, and I haven't had any issues with my HS headers.

I do like Brian, and I don't have anything against him or his company but with the luck I had with the products I am personally not sold on anything they sell. Maybe its just bad luck, but I reather not take a chance. He stands behind his products and listens to his customers. He unlike other companies does follow through with phone calls, and great customer service skills- which is tough to beat in todays aftermarket parts bussiness, hello Warpspeed ???

I was obviously mad that a simple few hour install turned a great looking product like Gen2 headers, into a major job- which could have been avoided if the quality controll standards where just a little bit higher.

 

I'm not going to go through all of this in detail, but I'll mention a couple of things. Obviously the head flange holes were large enough on the series of four prototype sets we made, and as far as that goes, the fourth prototype was good in every respect. This resulted from a simple screw-up - when the first batch of flanges for the production were cut with the waterjet, they were cut too small. Didn't realize that change had taken place till they were shipped out.

If the contact under the floor is a pattern - I know that its not on some, but its possible that it is on others (don't know yet) - then this is a matter of not romping enough on the cars that we installed the prototypes on so that the conflict could be discovered. At would be extremely useful to have a photograph that confirmed where this was occuring. As I mentioned before, we're trying to maximize ground clearance, but it may need to be realigned slightly.

As far as the O2 sensors go, these have been installed on several 02/03 Maximas, and there have been no reports about extending the wires - not sure what more to say about that and in either case I do not consider this a design flaw. We're not about to shorten the header primaries or move the O2 sensor port from the collector up a single primary tube just so the wires will reach.

We're keen to take another close look at this installation as soon as possible. We're moving the Cattman warehouse this week and it will be impossible for me to get my car over to San Diego for a fitment session, if anyone and can make their car available for a day in return for a free installation and a header discount, please contact me by PM.

As far as your problems with our y-pipe flexes go, I think you mentioned solving the problem in your description without realizing it. The flex problems disappeared after you put the motor mounts in; the single biggest source of flex section problems is worn out motor mounts because the flexes cannot take the stress of the motor flopping back and forth (which yanks the flex up and down).

There is no pattern whatsoever of flex failures in the y-pipes we've made for the last four years - we've sold hundreds and I have not replaced a single flex within the 12 month warranty period on materials and workmanship. We buy a very high quality, extremely durable flex component (we learned our lesson with the batch of 100 that failed, I wonder if the y-pipe you had was one of those). They're actually made in the US, one of the few brands that still are. Even beyond the warranty period, we don't sell more than a couple flexes a year, and those customers typically are putting them on a four-to-seven-year old y-pipe.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

Brian, I do not know if Eric took a picture of the Ypipe hitting the floor board but if anything I will try to take a picture of my car underneath and circle the part of the floor where the Ypipe hits. It simply comes out and goes over to the drivers side of the vehicles exhaust tunnel, and then there is a bend where it points the flex pipe towards the passenger side of the vehicle causing the flexpipe to rub over the body. After that you got a bend in the pipe that comes out of the flex pipe- again to the left. Why not just make it shoot out the Ypipe collector merger STRAIGHT back into the cat ? There would be NO ground clearance issues what so over.

Like I said I don't think Eric took a picture of the flex pipe hitting the floor, but if you like I can take a pic of my car and photoshop the pipe on how its hitting the floor. And then make another photoshop on how I think the Ypipe should be routed.

I do think Eric has pictures of the wires we had to lenghten in order for O2 to work. I have had my primary O2 sensor bung welded in the # 6 primary tube in order to gain clearance. My HS headers where designed for a 3.5L where the 02 sensor would bolt right in, but my AC compressor and bracket on the block is diff and there is clearance issues with that. I have had my O2 relocated like that for almost bout 6 months now with no issues ( I drove around with no AC till it started getting warm) and my car runs great, no power problems, or anything. I still get rewarded with 26MPG overall with mix of highway driving and city driving on my commute to work, and over 32MPG when just crusing at 70MPH on the highway.

EDIT- as for my Flexpipe problems due to worn engine mounts, I put on my Ypipe when my car had only 10K miles on it (Bought the car new in June of 01, and your Ypipe in Sept of 01), so saying my engine mounts where shot at that mileage would be absurd. When I changed my mounts none of them shown any wear what so ever. I repleaced them due to the fact that I liked better throttle response and I also wanted to eliminate some of the wheelhop- which will never dissapear with the inherent design of our cars.

 

I'm still getting Cattman headers for my 4th and 6th gens. Cattman is a great company, I wish more companies had customer service and professional quality feedback and give their own time to their customers and care what they say.

Cattman is the way to go. Hands down, IMO.

 

It would be useful (essential might be a better term) to have a picture of the area in question on Eric's car so we can see the headers on the vehicle, hopefully there would be some way to arrange that. I'm not casting any doubts at the installation process, but we also have to look at the part on the car so we can eliminate the possibility that something wasn't assembled as intended. I saw the prototype fitment and I just don't have a memory of the path you describe - I'm not disputing anything you're saying because I wasn't there, but it just isn't logical that we would design it such that the part went straight into a clearance issue that could have been easily avoided.

Regarding extending the O2 sensor wires, I wondered why the HS wasn't an issue and then saw that the O2 port was up on a primary header tube. That may make it easier to install, but it is hideously bad practice. If you're looking for an obvious and serious design flaw, that would be one.

O2 sensors should NEVER be positioned on a single primary tube, both must be on the 3-1 collectors or below to function properly. Of course the car will run fine as long as the same thing is going on in all the cylinders. On the other hand, when you have a coilpack, or worse, an injector that fails on cylinder 4 or 5, you very possibly won't know till its way too late. If the car is new enough to have a warranty, the damage will not likely be covered because the modification prevented the ECU from sensing a serious problem.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

I'll just point out that if we couldn't make a better header set than the competition's we wouldn't have made it in the first place. Looking beyond the issues that prompted this thread because they are temporary at worst, I will point out that the Cattman and HS are not equivalent in power, materials, or fabrication methods. The HS headers are not a bad product - they're definitely better than all but ours - but they were not equal to the previous NZ-made Cattman headers, and they are certainly not equivalent to the upgraded design we make now.

Cattman headers routinely make 20+ whp on VQ30DE motors, and 25+ on VQ35DEs. 239-242whp is the typical dyno result with our headers, intake and full catback on a VQ35DE. I won't argue individual runs, but overall, the header results I see from other brands do not equal this. Our NZ-made headers were clearly the power champs of maxima headers, and the new ones increase average horsepower between 3000-6500 rpm by 5hp over the NZ version. A 5whp increase in average hp over that large an rpm range is a very significant thing.

Additionally, the Cattman headers are the only ones for the Maxima that combine these features:

- Robust 16 gauge 304 s/s tubing for corrosion resistance and thermal containment (which equals power). FWIW, we only use US-made stainless tubing certified from the Rath Mill and bent by Burns Stainless - there is no higher quality materials source for motorsports in the entire world. And no, we don't polish the mill source and specifications from the side of the tube, we want everyone to know that we only use the best steel and we don't want anyone to think the part was made where the labor is so cheap you can afford to polish finished parts.

- TIG welding for superior strength, but it also improves exhaust flow and minimizes turbulence because unlike the weaker MIG welding, the TIG welds do not create welding seams that intrude and cause turbulence on the inside of the tubing (which equals power);

- Look at the difference in the 3-1 collectors in the pictures (the hotshot manifolds are there too). The merge collectors in our design are not a gimmick, they are a very effective (and expensive!) performance feature. This design element alone made a significant power difference over our previous NZ design (which was already the strongest performing header for the Maxima);

That summarizes the major features that set Cattman headers apart from the competition. The part does not cost $300 more because we are that much greedier than HS, it costs that much more because we SPEND a lot more on the part than they do.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance

 

From jimmycapps 02 6sp he posted this

Mods: Hotshot Headers, Frankencar intake.
Gas: 89oc
Gear: 4th

SAE Correction= 1.02
Max power = 231.33
Max Torque = 239.79


Keep in mind that is with 89oc, no 17' adv, no UDP and stock cat-back.

If you want to brag about your #'s you need to run your headers against an identical setup...

As I said before, I love you products; I just dont think that the headers are worth it. I have full confidence that HS can post similar #'s on the same car.

 

I would prefew to have a parts I trust on my car, since i already have y-pipe, and catback from them with no problem I am sure that there headers are made of high quality. I would like to see a link to that, I find it kinda hard to believe that with intake and headers he is able to put those kind of numbers down.


I can't wait til i have some money saved

 

I put down similar #'s in an auto with intake and headers....Gen I's CM's though...

 

Once again MM, owned by teh search:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=433516

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=433670

 

 

I wish Hotshot was here to defend themselves about there header design and why it's cheaper to produce it for similar gains.

 

Brian.

Please tell my thatthe headers I ordered do not have this issue.. As I am doing this through a nissan dealership, if the headers are infact an issue, I will need to return them for a new set.

Please advise

 

you are paying a nissan dealship to install headers? can i ask how much?

 

very interesting thread. the thing that will amke my decision is which give more powr and are proven and which headers are a direct bolt on.

 

Here is a lil bit of info bout HS, they have been making headers for Nissans for over 12 years now, they started out as a small company- and its STILL a small company. They are the most trusted headers in the SR20 and Saturn communities. HS makes turbo manifolds, intercooler kits, cold air intakes and exhaust systems for alot of diff cars. John Spangler doesn't have time to sit online and answer questions via Forums. He sits in his shop and handles alot of the manufacturing. Years ago they where one of the 1st companies out there to design headers for Fords SEMA Focus, and where involved in some turbo exhaust manifolds also. They are DEFF not a newcomer to Nissan performance, they make everything inhouse. HS has made 6 diff generations of diff headers for the FWD SR20 motors, and the latest examples make power unheard of on a NA 4 cylinder engine. There isn't much interest in Maxima headers like there is in SR20 headers, so don't hold your breath for race headers like they make for SR20 motors.

 

All I can say is that Cattman's headers look like a better design made of better materials when compaired to HS. I love the equal length runners and the collector is great.

When Cattman cleans out all the bugs I would definitely buy the Gen 2's over HS. They may make great headers for the SR20's (and Im not knocking their VQ headers), but Cattman is focused on the VQ... I know which I will go with when it comes time.

 

For the money/hp ratio, I will go with Hotshot.

 

Hi
All I will take the time to say, regarding this, is thank god for some REAL competition. You guys should be happy that there are still companies like Cattman and Hotshot that take pride in producing their own products, and marketing them on their own merits rather than just shipping off proven designs to China to be copied badly, ala Weapon R, OBX and SSAutochrome.

Thanks

John
Hotshot