Well I installed a set (Cattmans) on Epacy's car today- 2002 SE auto, and lemme tell ya, for 850 bux + this is total BS !. These things do NOT fit, the header flange is drilled out too small and does not fit over the studs. Primary 02 sensor wires need to be extended bout 3" to make them fit in the headers, and the Ypipe flexpipe section rubs on the floorboard of the car- and you can't adjust that at all. Once you put on the headers onto the heads there is NO moving of them around, and you best hope that the Ypipe has perfecly made flanges to bolt up to the headers or you will be F-ed. Overall, I would NEVER EVER buy these things over my HS headers. My fitment was GREAT, I had no problems on getting them on vs these things. I spend bout 1 hour taking the OEM stuff off, and bout 4 hours modiffying and adjusting stuff here and there to make it all work.

I will leave the rest to Eric (Epacy) to comment on, as hes the one who paid for them, and will give you the butt dyno results from his drive back down from Chicago to St. Louis. Anyone whos looking at buying headers, needs to call up HotShot before they stopp making them- for the fitment and quality they are a steal.

 

Why do you think HotShot will stop making them just out of courisity?

 

Hi BlackbirdVQ,

I thought the Hotshot Headers where not available for the 5th gen?
What did you do to make them work?

Thanks,
TT

 

The install was done at my house and I had to take a titanium-coated drill to the bolt holes of the headers to widen them so they could be installed. Another thing to mention was the hardware that was sent with the headers/downpipe. The bolts were ridiculously short...so short, you couldn't add another washer. The entire exhaust system was moved back by about an inch or so as well, causing the b pipe to bang against the heat shield.

 

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=385360

 

This news is both shocking and disturbing : ... but thanks for the comments, Mike.

I don't remember rbrown81 mentioning any issues when he got his Cattmans installed...

 

Interesting.. I would never think something like that would come from Cattman.

 

You should've come out for the install...man o' man what a PITA.

 

I dont think HE installed them... He paid to have them installed as I remember, so he would have no idea of any fitment issues.

 

In my opinion, when you purchase a part such as this, if it doesn't fit:

1. they should pay to ship it back
2. they should refund you in full immediately no questions asked
3. they should immediately halt further sales and investigate the problem
4. they should send you something as a goodwill token for the labor you lost trying to install their BS crap that doesn't fit.

 

I know he didn't, that's why I said "when he got his Cattmans installed". He got MaxTuning to do it for him, but usually doesn't the installer give some sort of feedback as to how the install went? I'd assume so.

 

Just to add my 02 cents about the HS Headers(I had the first batch). Jeff from Maxtuning did my install, I asked him about Fitment issues, and he said "no issues whatsever". Since then I sold the HS Headers to my cousin, and bought the 1st gen cattman headers. Their were no fitment issues with cattman headers either. I am very suprised to read blackbird's thread about the Cattman Gen2's.

 

I was going to go with Cattman Headers for sure but now my decision might change. I might look into the Hotshot Headers now.

 

dam, we all expecting more gains from a cattman setup, not more issues. 850 bucks....hmm, crazy...

 

i also am very shocked at this post! i cannot belive that the headers were that "rough" of an install. If you havent already i would deff shoot an email over to Brain at cattman to let him know of the issues so they can be resolved.

-Ryan

 

As much as I respect Mike and appreciate his comments, lets reserve judgement till more people have installed em. They may have gotten a bad set.

 

thats exacly what i was thinking, arent these hand made? if so that might explain maybe a bad set?? i really havent heard of any other problems but then again not too many people have these yet so i think we should really wait this out as puppet said so we dont all jump to conclusions here.

 

You got to be fukking kidding me. i have been waiting a while now and they should be coming in a week for the Cattman Gen 2's to replace my constant failing precats.

 

Apparently Brian had some issues with his fabricator drilling the flange holes too small for the first few sets. I had this exact issue with my headers when I had them installed. Jeff was able to drill them out without too much trouble. Seeing as this issue was resolved I didnt think too much of if. I hope that Brian has been able to rectify this issue.

If you have an issue with his merchandise, I suggest you call him and let him know. If this is still occuring after the fabricators have adjusted their build, then I think Brian would be very interested to know.

Just out of curiously Blackbird, how did you find the quality of the product. I found that the way the pipes were connected to the flanges were not exactly flush and looked like they would create a bit of turbluence in the stream. Mine hit something underneath the car when I mash the pedal hard, but my new motor mounts appear to have fixed this.

Like Puppet said, lets see if anyone else is having issues and see if Brian can rectify this problem.

 

So now we know that this isn't a one time thing... glad ya chimed in here, Rich.

Knowing the kind of guy Brian is, I'm sure something will be done to rectify this. We'll just wait and see.

 

Yeah. I honestly feel bad that Brian is having issues with his fabricators. Seems like their manfacturing standards are not as high as we had hoped.

 

Eric called Brian as I was b!tchn under the car installing these things. Brian said his mechanic who installed his headers had no issues with the install. I simply wasn't prepared for drilling out the flange holes, and flexpipe hitting the body of the car. Its not like you can forsee these problems with the factory stuff still in place on the car. I have installed HS headers on my Max without a single issue- other than the 02 sensor hitting the AC compressor (it would clear a 3.5L compressor as its diff).

Like THT mentiones above, hardware supplied with the headers- bolts and nuts where too short, if you tried using the washers they supplied with the bolts then they where too short and it was hard to install the nuts on the bolts. 2 out of 6 bolts would only bolt togheter if you ditched the washer. HS supplies longer bolts that come with washers, and on top of that I had 2 new cat nuts supplied in the bag- Cattman didn't include those. They did include a heat shield which comes in a form of a tape that needs to be installed over the oil cooler coolant hose that runs right by the Ypipe - which might melt due to heat.

Headers looked really nice, but the insides of them looked like they where not completly smooth. If you looked inside the primary tubes through the header flange, you could see some of the piping was overlaping on the inside, causing some potential flow issues. I think there where too many welded on sections of the primaries causing these flow issues, as HS uses one piece primary vs 2 section of Cattmans. Also I like the ceramic coating on my HS better, as these Stainless steel headers will dull out in color after some time.

On a side note, Erics 02 Maxima's front pre-cat was falling apart, and a chunk of it was missing. I belive hes got approx 60K miles on his car.

 

Is the Hotshot website or hpautoworks.com the best place to find the best priced Hotshot Headers? Thanks.

 

If this is the case, I am calling brian and returning this ****

 

wow I am shocked at these Gen2s

hehe I am so happy that I got the Gen1s

My next maxima will either come with HS headers....or "revised" cattman gen2...lets pray that there will be one

 

For $300 more than the Hotshots, I expected the Cattman headers to be much better in performance, quality, and the like. I guess I was wrong. I hope you guys get everything resolved, so future customers won't have to deal with these problems.

 

Thanks Puppet for the Link!

TT

 

Yes that y-pipe runs damnned close to the oil cooler coolant hose. Blackbird, you think that will be an issue in time? I am concerned!

 

Paid $500 for my Hotshot headers and had them installed without fitment issues according to the installer. Cattman's catback exhaust installed without issues and the exhaust sound is great.

 

I would have purchased the Hotshots had I not been swayed by tales of Fitment issues! *sigh* Im worried about my oil coolant hose...

 

rbrown - my Gen1 headers are damn close to the oil cooler too....I wonder if it rubs when I take twisties hard...if so, oops!

 

Someone stated that Hotshot wasn't making the 5th gen headers anymore, is that correct? I placed an order for these last week from sportcompactonly and they just told me it will be about 2 week wait time as Hotshot is difficult to get ahold of.

One more question, when everyone here is installing these headers are they replacing the main steel header gasket where it meets the head or are these basically just reuseable? I am going to be installing these in a few weeks, when they finally arrive and I don't want to have to run to my local dealer for these gaskets just to find they don't have them in stock.

I already have the header wrap and dual output O2simulator. Is header wrap a bad idea if I am not concerned with the weather/rain in my area etc. Some header companies say that the additional trapped heat will melt the inside slowly and send part of the metal downstream into the cat etc. I am mostly wanting to deaden any additonal underhood sound by at least wrapping the y section and around the flex area where most of the buzzing can occur.

Any advice from some seasoned installers would be appreciated, Thanks.

 

They were not sure if they were going to continue making them because of low demand. Thats when I talked to them around March.

I reused my stock gaskets, no leaking... I would not use the ones they supply they will leak almost instantly.

As far as the wrap... I dont know, my are not wrapped so I cannot say if it will give you a prob.

 

http://www.hsperformance.com/hotshotheaders/ns3017.html

Better show more interest, or John Spangler will stop making these. You guys can probably maybe get some kinda group deal going here. HS headers are made inhouse, unlike Cattmans which are outsourced. 549 bux for HS headers is a steal, I got mine for 529 shipped from JWT a year ago, I'm loving em.

 

I got my Hotshot headers from sportcompactonly.com also, but it it came within 1 1/2 weeks (including delivery time). I didn't have any fitment issues. Blackbird is right about the gaskets that Hotshots supply. I was getting a leak where the y-pipe connects to the cat., and I just reused the stock ones, and the leak is gone. The car isn't much louder at idle and cruising, and sounds like a beast at WOT.

 

Well I received the Cattman Gen. II headers a few weeks ago. I also received an e-mail from Cattman informing me about the holes for the flanges being to small and consequently requiring a drill bit to drill them out. I have a 4th gen with a 3.5 and as far as I can tell Tilley did not have any fitment issues. The studs would not go in the from the y pipe to the cat but the install did go pretty smooth, time consuming to say the least but it did go smooth. I also definately did notice gains and the sound is also amazing above 4K rpms. So I do recommend them.

 

"definately did not notice gains" ....... interesting

 

Not true i definitly think fitment is poor.

 

what kind of difference is there between the hs headers and the cattman headers in terms of gains and performance?

 

Obviously this requires a response and I would encourage others not to get caught up in the dire tone of this thread because it is unwarranted by the circumsances. Let's put this in perspective.

I regret the issues that VQBlackbird ran into, but to attack the product in this way is totally uncalled for. Its a total indictment of the part as a result of a single small fabrication error that we identified and resolved weeks ago.

The headers are a new product, and this was one of the first 10 sets made. We typically stop production after 10 sets to get feedback from everyone that has done the install, and we did that with this product too. In this case, we have information from 7 successful installations and we've used the feedback to tweak a couple of things and those changes have already been implemented in our production. Let's review the issues that have been raised here - none are serious from a production standpoint and all can be addressed:

1. Head flange holes were too small. This is true, the first small batch of head flanges that were made had holes that were too small. We sent out a notice that they needed to be drilled out slightly so that most customers were aware of this before beginning the installation. This is mild steel, and although I'd be the first to acknowledge that it shouldn't be necessary, drilling them out 1/16" really is not a major task. When the holes are the proper size there is adequate room for adjustment at the heads. Looking over the complaints, this seems to be the ONLY actual fitment issue related to the header fabrication, and obviously this change has been made to current production.

2. Extending the primary O2 sensors. We were somewhat baffled about this, no one else has needed to extend the sensor wires. My mechanic easily found enough wire to do the install on my '02 without an extension and I haven't heard that this was necessary in other installations. The customer indicated the wires were about 3" too short, but the sensor ports are in the same place on all the headers. In any case, this is not a defect in the part, the sensor ports are where they have to be on the header manifolds, we can't design the length of the manifolds to go along with the wires on the sensors.

3. Flex hitting bottom of floorboards. It may touch a heat shield there, but its not hitting the "floorboard". We tuck the exhaust as high as possible to maximize ground clearance, which is important, and making adjustements to the heat shield may be required, but its light sheet metal and a pretty routine part of a close-clearance exhaust installation. I'd rather adjust the heat shield above than hit a speed bump below.

Its also possible that this noise is from some other part of the exhaust system, noise from this area can be difficult to diagnose. I had a lot of noise after my last header install, but when I finally had time to look at it, it turned out that the catback had been misaligned during the installation and had nothing to do with the header. I was getting a bad resonance from under the shifter at 1700 and 3200 rpm, and a terrible knock from the exhaust where it goes over the back axle. My excellent mechanic loosened everything up, realigned properly, and now there's no noise at all.

Properly aligning a linear exhaust that requires connecting 6 seperate components (2 manifolds, y-pipe, cat, 2 catback sections) is not as simple as it may seem. There's no way to know if it applies to this situation or not, but this points out that an amateur installation of a new system could have resulted in all these noises, and although the first thought would be that there is something wrong with the part that is not necessarily the case.

4. Bolts in installation kit too small. Sorry about that, we'll make absolutely sure that this is changed in future shipments. This is the sort of embarrassing bug we get worked out in early production, but not exactly a fatal flaw. It is a inconvenience for this to happen in the middle of the installation process, and I apologize for that. FWIW, I found a great source of some really trick gaskets at SEMA this last week and we'll start including head flange gaskets in the kit - as well as properly-sized fastener hardware - as soon as we can get our hands on some.

5. Primaries made from >1 tubing section. The only issue here is that creating primary tubes from cut bends makes the production more expensive - there is no impact on performance or strength. [We'll be happy to go head-to-head on the dyno with all comers!!!] Waiting to get custom-bent one-piece primaries (some other multi-piece sections will be changed too) would have delayed production by another month or so, so we've made the first batch with welded tubing sections. Since they're TIG-welded, there's no issue with strength or a welding seam that intrudes into the tube. There is nothing inferior about fabricating multi-piece tubing sections - the most expensive custom headers are made exactly the same way.

6. Proximity to the cooler line for the oil filter is a non-issue, period. There is a small water line going to the oil filter base; I think this is only on 02/03 Maximas (and 02-04 I35s) with VQ35DE motors. The equalizing loop on the back downpipe of the y-pipe passes near this, there's nowhere else for it to go. We include a section of self-adhesive insulating wrap to protect it from the heat. [Note that the previous generation of headers were the same way and we've had no reported problems without the heat shielding.]

7. Customer support - bottom line is that this is early production on an excellent, but fairly complex parts system. We've incorporated what we learn in the production process as we go along, so if an issue comes up it, the solution is incorporated in to production immediately. If a customer has an unresolvable issue, we'll make it right, simple as that.

Now, since the Hotshot headers are held up as the best practice example, let's bring this discussion back to reality. Maybe BlackbirdVQ was lucky, but we get a lot of feedback from customers and mechanics about significant dimensional variability from one part to another. I've heard them referred to repeatedly as "snowflake" parts (expressing the idea that no two are exactly the same). We were constantly getting compliments on the fitment of our NZ-made headers over the Hotshot version, and although we don't sell those headers now, the comments about the Hotshot fitment stand on their own. I fully anticipate that the production quality of this new US-made set will match the NZ standard as we take a few small lessons from this initial production.

All stainless tubing, TIG-welding, hand-built 3-1 merge collectors, fabrication entirely in the US from US-made components and materials, and a proven 20+ whp for VQ30DEs and 25+ whp on VQ35DEs are the critical features that set the Cattman Performance headers apart from all of the other header systems available for the maxima. We've already incorporated the one fabrication issue raised in this "critique" - undersized bolt holes in the head flange - and over time it will be these critical design and fabrication features that determine the success of this part.

Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance