New CATTMAN headers
Originally Posted by vsamoylov
anybody got pics of the complete hs set up?
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=435912
You could probably also ask him for more pics...
Originally Posted by Hotshot
Hi
All I will take the time to say, regarding this, is thank god for some REAL competition. You guys should be happy that there are still companies like Cattman and Hotshot that take pride in producing their own products, and marketing them on their own merits rather than just shipping off proven designs to China to be copied badly, ala Weapon R, OBX and SSAutochrome.
Thanks
John
Hotshot
All I will take the time to say, regarding this, is thank god for some REAL competition. You guys should be happy that there are still companies like Cattman and Hotshot that take pride in producing their own products, and marketing them on their own merits rather than just shipping off proven designs to China to be copied badly, ala Weapon R, OBX and SSAutochrome.
Thanks
John
Hotshot
you did not respond to Brian stating that his headers are better quality. Should we assume that is true?
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 242
Header flange Q for Brian C.
Hey Brain,
I was wondering why you went with holes in the flange so close in tolerance to the stud size? You should have an elongated hole to allow for expansion and contraction of the flange. Thick as it is it will change, and after a while you possibly may sheer off the bolts if you are having people drill it out by only 1/16 of an inch. If you are cutting from a flowjet, than you can just elongate them, quite easily. I think that is too close of a tolerance and will also eleviate some fittment issues.
Just my .02
I was wondering why you went with holes in the flange so close in tolerance to the stud size? You should have an elongated hole to allow for expansion and contraction of the flange. Thick as it is it will change, and after a while you possibly may sheer off the bolts if you are having people drill it out by only 1/16 of an inch. If you are cutting from a flowjet, than you can just elongate them, quite easily. I think that is too close of a tolerance and will also eleviate some fittment issues.
Just my .02
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4
Hi
Honestly I have not seen the headers, so I don't know. I believe we put out high quality parts, and charge a fair price for them, and we're here to back them if you have any problems.
Assume whatever makes you happy, anbd believe whatever you like.
I prefer to let the dyno numbers and timeslips do the talking.
Thanks
John
Hotshot
Honestly I have not seen the headers, so I don't know. I believe we put out high quality parts, and charge a fair price for them, and we're here to back them if you have any problems.
Assume whatever makes you happy, anbd believe whatever you like.
I prefer to let the dyno numbers and timeslips do the talking.
Thanks
John
Hotshot
Originally Posted by rbrown81
Oh good grief! Leave the man be.
Originally Posted by 03maxima1
Why should I? I want to know if there is a difference between the two. You might consider $550 to $850 not a lot of money but to me it is. If I am going to spend money in that range I want the best product. So if there are differences in quality they should be clarified.
Originally Posted by 03maxima1
Why should I? I want to know if there is a difference between the two. You might consider $550 to $850 not a lot of money but to me it is. If I am going to spend money in that range I want the best product. So if there are differences in quality they should be clarified.
Originally Posted by Cattman
Obviously this requires a response and I would encourage others not to get caught up in the dire tone of this thread because it is unwarranted by the circumsances. Let's put this in perspective.
I regret the issues that VQBlackbird ran into, but to attack the product in this way is totally uncalled for. Its a total indictment of the part as a result of a single small fabrication error that we identified and resolved weeks ago.
The headers are a new product, and this was one of the first 10 sets made. We typically stop production after 10 sets to get feedback from everyone that has done the install, and we did that with this product too. In this case, we have information from 7 successful installations and we've used the feedback to tweak a couple of things and those changes have already been implemented in our production. Let's review the issues that have been raised here - none are serious from a production standpoint and all can be addressed:
1. Head flange holes were too small. This is true, the first small batch of head flanges that were made had holes that were too small. We sent out a notice that they needed to be drilled out slightly so that most customers were aware of this before beginning the installation. This is mild steel, and although I'd be the first to acknowledge that it shouldn't be necessary, drilling them out 1/16" really is not a major task. When the holes are the proper size there is adequate room for adjustment at the heads. Looking over the complaints, this seems to be the ONLY actual fitment issue related to the header fabrication, and obviously this change has been made to current production.
2. Extending the primary O2 sensors. We were somewhat baffled about this, no one else has needed to extend the sensor wires. My mechanic easily found enough wire to do the install on my '02 without an extension and I haven't heard that this was necessary in other installations. The customer indicated the wires were about 3" too short, but the sensor ports are in the same place on all the headers. In any case, this is not a defect in the part, the sensor ports are where they have to be on the header manifolds, we can't design the length of the manifolds to go along with the wires on the sensors.
3. Flex hitting bottom of floorboards. It may touch a heat shield there, but its not hitting the "floorboard". We tuck the exhaust as high as possible to maximize ground clearance, which is important, and making adjustements to the heat shield may be required, but its light sheet metal and a pretty routine part of a close-clearance exhaust installation. I'd rather adjust the heat shield above than hit a speed bump below.
Its also possible that this noise is from some other part of the exhaust system, noise from this area can be difficult to diagnose. I had a lot of noise after my last header install, but when I finally had time to look at it, it turned out that the catback had been misaligned during the installation and had nothing to do with the header. I was getting a bad resonance from under the shifter at 1700 and 3200 rpm, and a terrible knock from the exhaust where it goes over the back axle. My excellent mechanic loosened everything up, realigned properly, and now there's no noise at all.
Properly aligning a linear exhaust that requires connecting 6 seperate components (2 manifolds, y-pipe, cat, 2 catback sections) is not as simple as it may seem. There's no way to know if it applies to this situation or not, but this points out that an amateur installation of a new system could have resulted in all these noises, and although the first thought would be that there is something wrong with the part that is not necessarily the case.
4. Bolts in installation kit too small. Sorry about that, we'll make absolutely sure that this is changed in future shipments. This is the sort of embarrassing bug we get worked out in early production, but not exactly a fatal flaw. It is a inconvenience for this to happen in the middle of the installation process, and I apologize for that. FWIW, I found a great source of some really trick gaskets at SEMA this last week and we'll start including head flange gaskets in the kit - as well as properly-sized fastener hardware - as soon as we can get our hands on some.
5. Primaries made from >1 tubing section. The only issue here is that creating primary tubes from cut bends makes the production more expensive - there is no impact on performance or strength. [We'll be happy to go head-to-head on the dyno with all comers!!!] Waiting to get custom-bent one-piece primaries (some other multi-piece sections will be changed too) would have delayed production by another month or so, so we've made the first batch with welded tubing sections. Since they're TIG-welded, there's no issue with strength or a welding seam that intrudes into the tube. There is nothing inferior about fabricating multi-piece tubing sections - the most expensive custom headers are made exactly the same way.
6. Proximity to the cooler line for the oil filter is a non-issue, period. There is a small water line going to the oil filter base; I think this is only on 02/03 Maximas (and 02-04 I35s) with VQ35DE motors. The equalizing loop on the back downpipe of the y-pipe passes near this, there's nowhere else for it to go. We include a section of self-adhesive insulating wrap to protect it from the heat. [Note that the previous generation of headers were the same way and we've had no reported problems without the heat shielding.]
7. Customer support - bottom line is that this is early production on an excellent, but fairly complex parts system. We've incorporated what we learn in the production process as we go along, so if an issue comes up it, the solution is incorporated in to production immediately. If a customer has an unresolvable issue, we'll make it right, simple as that.
Now, since the Hotshot headers are held up as the best practice example, let's bring this discussion back to reality. Maybe BlackbirdVQ was lucky, but we get a lot of feedback from customers and mechanics about significant dimensional variability from one part to another. I've heard them referred to repeatedly as "snowflake" parts (expressing the idea that no two are exactly the same). We were constantly getting compliments on the fitment of our NZ-made headers over the Hotshot version, and although we don't sell those headers now, the comments about the Hotshot fitment stand on their own. I fully anticipate that the production quality of this new US-made set will match the NZ standard as we take a few small lessons from this initial production.
All stainless tubing, TIG-welding, hand-built 3-1 merge collectors, fabrication entirely in the US from US-made components and materials, and a proven 20+ whp for VQ30DEs and 25+ whp on VQ35DEs are the critical features that set the Cattman Performance headers apart from all of the other header systems available for the maxima. We've already incorporated the one fabrication issue raised in this "critique" - undersized bolt holes in the head flange - and over time it will be these critical design and fabrication features that determine the success of this part.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
I regret the issues that VQBlackbird ran into, but to attack the product in this way is totally uncalled for. Its a total indictment of the part as a result of a single small fabrication error that we identified and resolved weeks ago.
The headers are a new product, and this was one of the first 10 sets made. We typically stop production after 10 sets to get feedback from everyone that has done the install, and we did that with this product too. In this case, we have information from 7 successful installations and we've used the feedback to tweak a couple of things and those changes have already been implemented in our production. Let's review the issues that have been raised here - none are serious from a production standpoint and all can be addressed:
1. Head flange holes were too small. This is true, the first small batch of head flanges that were made had holes that were too small. We sent out a notice that they needed to be drilled out slightly so that most customers were aware of this before beginning the installation. This is mild steel, and although I'd be the first to acknowledge that it shouldn't be necessary, drilling them out 1/16" really is not a major task. When the holes are the proper size there is adequate room for adjustment at the heads. Looking over the complaints, this seems to be the ONLY actual fitment issue related to the header fabrication, and obviously this change has been made to current production.
2. Extending the primary O2 sensors. We were somewhat baffled about this, no one else has needed to extend the sensor wires. My mechanic easily found enough wire to do the install on my '02 without an extension and I haven't heard that this was necessary in other installations. The customer indicated the wires were about 3" too short, but the sensor ports are in the same place on all the headers. In any case, this is not a defect in the part, the sensor ports are where they have to be on the header manifolds, we can't design the length of the manifolds to go along with the wires on the sensors.
3. Flex hitting bottom of floorboards. It may touch a heat shield there, but its not hitting the "floorboard". We tuck the exhaust as high as possible to maximize ground clearance, which is important, and making adjustements to the heat shield may be required, but its light sheet metal and a pretty routine part of a close-clearance exhaust installation. I'd rather adjust the heat shield above than hit a speed bump below.
Its also possible that this noise is from some other part of the exhaust system, noise from this area can be difficult to diagnose. I had a lot of noise after my last header install, but when I finally had time to look at it, it turned out that the catback had been misaligned during the installation and had nothing to do with the header. I was getting a bad resonance from under the shifter at 1700 and 3200 rpm, and a terrible knock from the exhaust where it goes over the back axle. My excellent mechanic loosened everything up, realigned properly, and now there's no noise at all.
Properly aligning a linear exhaust that requires connecting 6 seperate components (2 manifolds, y-pipe, cat, 2 catback sections) is not as simple as it may seem. There's no way to know if it applies to this situation or not, but this points out that an amateur installation of a new system could have resulted in all these noises, and although the first thought would be that there is something wrong with the part that is not necessarily the case.
4. Bolts in installation kit too small. Sorry about that, we'll make absolutely sure that this is changed in future shipments. This is the sort of embarrassing bug we get worked out in early production, but not exactly a fatal flaw. It is a inconvenience for this to happen in the middle of the installation process, and I apologize for that. FWIW, I found a great source of some really trick gaskets at SEMA this last week and we'll start including head flange gaskets in the kit - as well as properly-sized fastener hardware - as soon as we can get our hands on some.
5. Primaries made from >1 tubing section. The only issue here is that creating primary tubes from cut bends makes the production more expensive - there is no impact on performance or strength. [We'll be happy to go head-to-head on the dyno with all comers!!!] Waiting to get custom-bent one-piece primaries (some other multi-piece sections will be changed too) would have delayed production by another month or so, so we've made the first batch with welded tubing sections. Since they're TIG-welded, there's no issue with strength or a welding seam that intrudes into the tube. There is nothing inferior about fabricating multi-piece tubing sections - the most expensive custom headers are made exactly the same way.
6. Proximity to the cooler line for the oil filter is a non-issue, period. There is a small water line going to the oil filter base; I think this is only on 02/03 Maximas (and 02-04 I35s) with VQ35DE motors. The equalizing loop on the back downpipe of the y-pipe passes near this, there's nowhere else for it to go. We include a section of self-adhesive insulating wrap to protect it from the heat. [Note that the previous generation of headers were the same way and we've had no reported problems without the heat shielding.]
7. Customer support - bottom line is that this is early production on an excellent, but fairly complex parts system. We've incorporated what we learn in the production process as we go along, so if an issue comes up it, the solution is incorporated in to production immediately. If a customer has an unresolvable issue, we'll make it right, simple as that.
Now, since the Hotshot headers are held up as the best practice example, let's bring this discussion back to reality. Maybe BlackbirdVQ was lucky, but we get a lot of feedback from customers and mechanics about significant dimensional variability from one part to another. I've heard them referred to repeatedly as "snowflake" parts (expressing the idea that no two are exactly the same). We were constantly getting compliments on the fitment of our NZ-made headers over the Hotshot version, and although we don't sell those headers now, the comments about the Hotshot fitment stand on their own. I fully anticipate that the production quality of this new US-made set will match the NZ standard as we take a few small lessons from this initial production.
All stainless tubing, TIG-welding, hand-built 3-1 merge collectors, fabrication entirely in the US from US-made components and materials, and a proven 20+ whp for VQ30DEs and 25+ whp on VQ35DEs are the critical features that set the Cattman Performance headers apart from all of the other header systems available for the maxima. We've already incorporated the one fabrication issue raised in this "critique" - undersized bolt holes in the head flange - and over time it will be these critical design and fabrication features that determine the success of this part.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Brian I dont know you and I dont really know the reputation you have and I dont really care. To be quite honest I just bought my I35 and am looking to modify it soon and for you to take time out of your day to address each concern with detail, owning up to oversights and providing detailed explanations is enough to show me you care about the opinions of your customers and thats the type of company I want to deal with.
Good for you for stepping up right away and accepting blame where blame is due. It gained my respect.
Originally Posted by Cattman
We didn't gain the reputation we have today by making crappy parts and ignoring customer input. Although this sort of process isn't pleasant for the business owner, its occasionally part of the territory and it doesn't have to be a disaster. I'll try to use this as an opportunity for self-improvement.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
i'm glad Brian came in here and cleared up some stuff. It is the first batch and i guess things are to be improved from there. However, these small fitment issues should have been taken care of i think if u already test fitted the header on a car already.
Secondly, although cattman has the best quality out there, due to its pricing, every customer (whether first or last) should get the utmost quality from cattman. The first people to test things if unsatisfied with the product or if given trouble should get some small reimbursement for going through the grievance of having to run into the troubles and relay info to make the product better. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of the installer. Blackbird is considered one of the better installers on the org and someone less fortunate to have the parts for drilling or whatever needs to be done will suffer much worst....if the first products are for testing to get better products out, the first 10 should have gotten a descent discount over the rest. Just my thoughts, not sure if it was done or not.
U did show excellent customer service bravely coming in here and hitting us off wit this info. Much respect...you stand by your name well.
Secondly, although cattman has the best quality out there, due to its pricing, every customer (whether first or last) should get the utmost quality from cattman. The first people to test things if unsatisfied with the product or if given trouble should get some small reimbursement for going through the grievance of having to run into the troubles and relay info to make the product better. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of the installer. Blackbird is considered one of the better installers on the org and someone less fortunate to have the parts for drilling or whatever needs to be done will suffer much worst....if the first products are for testing to get better products out, the first 10 should have gotten a descent discount over the rest. Just my thoughts, not sure if it was done or not.
U did show excellent customer service bravely coming in here and hitting us off wit this info. Much respect...you stand by your name well.
Originally Posted by maxgangsta02
your english makes as much sense as to how you car looks like a POS :
Btw, everyone has their taste, maybe you could learn to respect that as well, esp when no one was asking for opinions.
Originally Posted by sciff5
Wow... Smart business man. I am majoring in Business management (not because its the easiest major) because I have a personal love for growing business and generally business aspects that would usually bore most people to death intest me greatly and I just have to respect your marketing strategy here. Where you guys located? Need an intern by any chance?
We're located in Tucson, Arizona and as a matter of fact I am looking for some good marketing help, which could be in the form of an intern, but would have long-term potential. Let me know if you'd like to discuss this further.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Originally Posted by sciff5
Brian I dont know you and I dont really know the reputation you have and I dont really care. To be quite honest I just bought my I35 and am looking to modify it soon and for you to take time out of your day to address each concern with detail, owning up to oversights and providing detailed explanations is enough to show me you care about the opinions of your customers and thats the type of company I want to deal with.
Good for you for stepping up right away and accepting blame where blame is due. It gained my respect.
Good for you for stepping up right away and accepting blame where blame is due. It gained my respect.
I appreciate your support. At Cattman Performance we live or die day-by-day on the strength of our reputation and customer relations since we can't afford to spend millions on advertising. It would be utter suicide to approach a problem like this without an appropriate level of humility and a willingness to "confess, repent and improve".
Since we don't make much money doing this, I guess what I'm really trying to protect is my ego - there's a lot of personal pride (probably too much) tied up in the parts we make and I tend to see it as a personal failure when something like this comes up.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Originally Posted by Hotshot
Hi
Honestly I have not seen the headers, so I don't know. I believe we put out high quality parts, and charge a fair price for them, and we're here to back them if you have any problems.
Assume whatever makes you happy, anbd believe whatever you like.
I prefer to let the dyno numbers and timeslips do the talking.
Thanks
John
Hotshot
Honestly I have not seen the headers, so I don't know. I believe we put out high quality parts, and charge a fair price for them, and we're here to back them if you have any problems.
Assume whatever makes you happy, anbd believe whatever you like.
I prefer to let the dyno numbers and timeslips do the talking.
Thanks
John
Hotshot
John is a real gentleman, not a common trait in this industry. I get too involved in this stuff sometimes, but John's good at maintaining a little distance, which is wise. He always seems moderate and thoughtful, chooses his words very well, and he has my respect.
Sure, I like our headers, but if they weren't available I'd send my customers to Hotshot without reservation and I did that on several occasions while our headers were out of production for several months.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Originally Posted by VQ30GTR
Hey Brain,
I was wondering why you went with holes in the flange so close in tolerance to the stud size? You should have an elongated hole to allow for expansion and contraction of the flange. Thick as it is it will change, and after a while you possibly may sheer off the bolts if you are having people drill it out by only 1/16 of an inch. If you are cutting from a flowjet, than you can just elongate them, quite easily. I think that is too close of a tolerance and will also eleviate some fittment issues.
Just my .02
I was wondering why you went with holes in the flange so close in tolerance to the stud size? You should have an elongated hole to allow for expansion and contraction of the flange. Thick as it is it will change, and after a while you possibly may sheer off the bolts if you are having people drill it out by only 1/16 of an inch. If you are cutting from a flowjet, than you can just elongate them, quite easily. I think that is too close of a tolerance and will also eleviate some fittment issues.
Just my .02
1/16" is more room than you think. You never want too much room on the head flange bolt holes because those ports have to match up. Too much slop will result in a ****-eyed port match between the manifolds and the heads.
The real story on the head flanges (not that I was hiding it, the detail just didn't seem warranted) is that most of the problem resulted from ONE hole, not all of them. An incredibly helpful and talented customer in Canada, who is an engineer, mounted them on a free-standing engine and discovered that the "bottom left" hole on each head flange was slightly off center and this made everything too tight. Drilling that hole out by about 3/32" and slightly reaming out the others was the magic formula, but the early header customers had theirs on by the time this was discovered. When this was discovered the remaining head flanges were supposed to be fixed, and frankly, that should have been the case with the header set that prompted this thread. I'll probably never know how they slipped through.
Anyway, the holes on the stock manifolds are not slotted, and I've never seen a case of headflange bolts being sheered off sideways from lateral heat expansion. We use mild steel flanges because of the excessive heat expansion properties of stainless steel, but we do that to avoid the studs being worked out of the heads by the heat expansion cycle, and I have seen that occur.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
header opportunity in SoCal
If you live within driving distance of San Diego and either 1) have an interest in a discounted header with free installation, or 2) would be willing to make your car available for a day in return for cash or other parts, please contact me ASAP at bcatts@cattman.com.
Circumstances require that we do another test fit so we know exactly where things stand with the current design. The set we want to install incorporates all the changes we've made to date, and a good test fitting would provide a basis for full confidence in a design and product that reflects all lessons learned to date.
Irrespective of the difficulties that started this thread, there is no better opportunity to obtain such a great deal on a superior product with the ultimate professional installation. After all, what could go wrong, you'd be at the source.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Circumstances require that we do another test fit so we know exactly where things stand with the current design. The set we want to install incorporates all the changes we've made to date, and a good test fitting would provide a basis for full confidence in a design and product that reflects all lessons learned to date.
Irrespective of the difficulties that started this thread, there is no better opportunity to obtain such a great deal on a superior product with the ultimate professional installation. After all, what could go wrong, you'd be at the source.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Originally Posted by Cattman
If you live within driving distance of San Diego and either 1) have an interest in a discounted header with free installation, or 2) would be willing to make your car available for a day in return for cash or other parts, please contact me ASAP at bcatts@cattman.com.
Circumstances require that we do another test fit so we know exactly where things stand with the current design. The set we want to install incorporates all the changes we've made to date, and a good test fitting would provide a basis for full confidence in a design and product that reflects all lessons learned to date.
Irrespective of the difficulties that started this thread, there is no better opportunity to obtain such a great deal on a superior product with the ultimate professional installation. After all, what could go wrong, you'd be at the source.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
Circumstances require that we do another test fit so we know exactly where things stand with the current design. The set we want to install incorporates all the changes we've made to date, and a good test fitting would provide a basis for full confidence in a design and product that reflects all lessons learned to date.
Irrespective of the difficulties that started this thread, there is no better opportunity to obtain such a great deal on a superior product with the ultimate professional installation. After all, what could go wrong, you'd be at the source.
Brian C Catts
Cattman Performance
What kind of discount are we talking about here Brian? Most likely the labor? As you already know through our emails, I was very interested in having this done in AZ. If I can save the drive, why not, depending on the overall price, thanks. Would I be able to get the entire CatBack and FastCat installed at the same time if I considered this? Thanks again.
Originally Posted by Snolife
What kind of discount are we talking about here Brian?
-Ryan
Originally Posted by 99 SE-L
People are getting 0 Gains and fitment problems with the headers and he isisnt doing anything except explaining the problems BlackBird VQ went over already, i rather pay $525 and get Hotshot
Enjoy your vacation
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 279
The only problem I had was one o2 sensor hitting the ac compressor and I didnt want the 02 to fail and mess up so my mechanic clogged the old spot where the sensor was supposed to go, and made a whole at the top of the headers and fit it there, here is a pic, a little sloppy because he was welding with the headers already on the car, not while they were out. IMO I think this is where the bung for the 02 sensor should have been to begin with....
P.S. These hotshot headers are the best bang for the buck, even if cattman headers get 2-3 more whp than hotshots, why pay another $350 for 2-3whp? Hotshot headers for $533 all the way!
P.S. These hotshot headers are the best bang for the buck, even if cattman headers get 2-3 more whp than hotshots, why pay another $350 for 2-3whp? Hotshot headers for $533 all the way!
Originally Posted by Starchild2K2SE
P.S. These hotshot headers are the best bang for the buck, even if cattman headers get 2-3 more whp than hotshots, why pay another $350 for 2-3whp? Hotshot headers for $533 all the way!
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
Can we please not get into this again? The Hotshot headers are a good deal for what they do, but its not all about peak gains, since you haven't considered area under the curve, or many other factors that determine price.
agreed. I'm a cheapskate so hotshots dont sound bad to me at all but for those who are venturing past n/a and need the best power under the curve, in cattman's defense, their headers would be best. Those boosting will see a much bigger difference than n/a. So its a long term thing to think of as well. You see people trying to squeeze every hp out when supercharging. When it comes to headers, you are only going to mess with it once, might as well get a set that makes the most results and not bother with it again. Although not dynoed, i wouldnt be surprised if that 3-7 whp n/a difference turns into a 15-20 hp whp FI difference. When you are at a certain level, 300 bucks for the 15-20 whp difference is actually a pretty good deal....but just a little something to think about...btw, if i lived anywhere in that area i would be all over this. Free install alone, your saving a good 150+ atleast not to mention a discount on the headers. And we're talking cattman techs installing, not some shop that worked on preludes and whatnot.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,860
Why did I have to move to Colorado? I'll actually be in SD next week to say hi to my parents, but wouldn't you know it... I'm flying out.Someone jump on this deal before it's too late!
I shall have these illusive Cattman headers soon
Originally Posted by Starchild2K2SE
The only problem I had was one o2 sensor hitting the ac compressor and I didnt want the 02 to fail and mess up so my mechanic clogged the old spot where the sensor was supposed to go, and made a whole at the top of the headers and fit it there, here is a pic, a little sloppy because he was welding with the headers already on the car, not while they were out. IMO I think this is where the bung for the 02 sensor should have been to begin with....
the only problem with placing the o2 here is that it doesn't measure the afr of all 3 primaries, just the one. so, this is NOT the best place for the o2. the best place for the o2 is in the collector(where all 3 primaries come together) so that the o2 can get an overall reading, and if theres a problem let you know.
i think you should fire your mechanic for going thru all that trouble to do something wrong rather than take alot less time and extend a few wires......
Extending the wires is not possible with HS headers since they HIT the AC compressor. Read the post and you will see what he wrote. As far as A/F using just one primary being wrong, I don't think thats going to be of ANY issue. Its not like VQs have bad injectors (00-03) and leaking intake gaskets causing lean or rich mixtures. And lets face it, even if there was a problem with it you would know before hand- aka hard starts, uneven idle etc. I have ran my 02 sensor welded up in pretty much the same spot on my VQ30DE-K for a while now, and I haven't had any issues, nor am I ever expecting any.
All this HS makes more peak power, or Cattman makes more under the curve power needs to stop, no one has compared BOTH headers on the SAME car. So we really have NO real comparison to go by. Whichever product you choose, you are getting quality item that makes power- should I remind you of the 1000 dollar Stillen headers ?
All this HS makes more peak power, or Cattman makes more under the curve power needs to stop, no one has compared BOTH headers on the SAME car. So we really have NO real comparison to go by. Whichever product you choose, you are getting quality item that makes power- should I remind you of the 1000 dollar Stillen headers ?
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
Extending the wires is not possible with HS headers since they HIT the AC compressor. Read the post and you will see what he wrote. As far as A/F using just one primary being wrong, I don't think thats going to be of ANY issue. Its not like VQs have bad injectors (00-03) and leaking intake gaskets causing lean or rich mixtures. And lets face it, even if there was a problem with it you would know before hand- aka hard starts, uneven idle etc. I have ran my 02 sensor welded up in pretty much the same spot on my VQ30DE-K for a while now, and I haven't had any issues, nor am I ever expecting any.
upstatemax- our 3.0Ls are blessed with long 02 sensor wires from the factory so we really don't need to extend ours. 3.5Ls have only bout 12" of wire from the connector to the sensor itself, we have bout 20" of wire.
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
upstatemax- our 3.0Ls are blessed with long 02 sensor wires from the factory so we really don't need to extend ours. 3.5Ls have only bout 12" of wire from the connector to the sensor itself, we have bout 20" of wire.
Just another reason why the 3.0 is better than the 3.5
