Hey, i got a question, hawaii is thinking of putting ethanol in gas.

I might of herd something that it will cause problems in our cars.

Is there any documents on that. Of anyone else have that problem.

Will my not generate as much power now?

 

Here in Cali they use Ethanol and they Did in AZ and as far as I know there are no problems with it in the gas that will harm your engine... As of performance I dont know...

 

I watched Top Gear a LONG time ago. I saw one of those alternative fuel episodes. A Mercedez Benz sedan thing was using 91 octane gas on the 1/4 mile. Then they filled it up with 102 octane Ethanol fuel. Haha, needless to say, there were no losses in performance.

102 > 91. Problem is, that car was made to run off both. Our cars are only made for gasoline. 102 octane Ethanol is cheaper than gasoline by a lot!

 

oh jesus, the server is going nuts.

 

ya, i dunno since our cars are made for gas and maybe a lil ethanol, as long as they dont convert to ethanol it should be ok.

 

ya, i dunno since our cars are made for gas and maybe a lil ethanol, as long as they dont convert to ethanol it should be ok.

 

What is the worst that ethanol could do to the car? Isn't the car supposed to run cleaner with ethenol?

 

I think most people dont know that HESS and all other cheap gas stations put 10% ethanol in the gas they sell. Now as of what I heard, its not harmful to our motors but it has a slight decrease in miles per galon. These gas companies are required to state that they have ethanol in the gas but how are we supposed to really know that the ethanol in the gas is really 10%. I think they will get away with it anyday. Am I supposed to distill gas to know that Im getting my money's worth? Gas with ethanol in them should be way cheaper compared to gas with no ethanol at all. I also think these gas companies are making huge profits. You think about it. They could make extra barrel of gas for every 10 barrels which comes from the 10% they remove. This makes 11 barrels for the price of 10. Any they'll still sell them at the same price?

 

Yeah.. I love how the gas prices bounce around so much too.. I mean with all the Oil fields in Texas... plus all the oil we get from other countries.. how can it still cost so much? It will go from $2.15 - $2.39 in like a day.

Any reason why you lose mpg with Ethanol?

Any one had experience with running straight (Pure) alchohol through an engine? I heard it can be done, or is this just a myth?

 

I "think" this is the right way to say it
--> Ethanol has less energy in it than gasoline so the amount of ethanol needed to do the same amount of work is greater.

Standard cars are safe up to about 15-20% ethanol. Ethanol is corrosive and eats the seals/hoses in conventional fuel systems.

E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Fuel economy is lower but since ethanol is cheaper it ends of being cheaper to use ethanol.

gave me these links:
http://www.cleanairchoice.org/outdoor/
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/

 

In Ontario, Sunoco uses up to 10% ethanol in fuel and I do notice slightly lower mpg when using their gas. Though Petro Canada advertises their Winter Gas which during winter they also add in ethanol. No problems in using it in this amount (10%) as far as performance goes, and the only drawback is slightly lower mpg...

 

most gas stations have a sticker that says "we may use up to 10% ethanol in our gas". it's been an additive to gasoline for many years. it's cheaper than gas, and also safe in limited quantities, so gas companies dilute pure gas with it to make more profit.

 

http://forums.maxima.org/forumdispla...aysprune=&f=70

 

More info: http://www.state.hi.us/dbedt/ert/ethanol.html

 

Just to add..and clear up some bad information... Ethanel is not cheaper...It is more expensive and costs alot more to produce.. is an octane booster...10% ethanel = 2 octane boost...
That being said it is cheaper for the consumer because gas stations get a HUGE tax write off for using it...and it's suppossed to be 10%...........
We have tested many people's fuel....The most we have ever found is 5-7% ethenal..Most are around 3-5%.. So in reality 87 and 89 are the same fuel except 10% ethenal is added to the 89 and there is 10% less "gas"..really 89 is about 87.5 to 88 @ 4-5%

 

Almost all gas stations in NY have 10% of Ethanol. 10% is allowed by most manufacturers. It does not hurt performance and it helps keep your fuel system clean.

 

i believe this can be cause not only by ethanol gas but by dirty air filter or dirty fuel pump i guarantee that to be most problem with cars as for engine coils
energy consumption as well.

TopSpeed

 

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....&highlight=e85

 

Ethanol has been proven to decrease gas mileage in fuel injected cars. The reason for this is that ethanol produces more oxygen during combustion. Your O2 sensor sees the extra oxygen and thinks your car is running lean, so it tells the ECM to increase the amount of fuel added. Result = lower gas mileage.

Ethanol also contains less heat energy than gasoline and certainly does not help performance although it might not hurt it enough to be noticeable.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=435024

 

Very intresting theory....
.I haven't heard of this but I buy it....
Do you have a link to any tech report. (Not a forum tech report, a real tech report, lol)


...The more I think about it the more I wonder??? not going to go into a page long post about theoratical possibilities, but I am very interested in seeing more on this...If there is an indepth post regaurding this theory please link it...

 

Anything close I could find to verify this theory is this...

Oxygen Enleanment



Newer vehicles are equipped with onboard computer control systems. These systems include oxygen sensors, installed in the exhaust manifold, to determine the oxygen content of the exhaust gases. Vehicles equipped with onboard computers will compensate for the oxygen content of the fuel when operating in the closed loop mode. The maximum level of oxygen permitted in gasoline is within the authority range of the sensor.
Taken from here....Page 19
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/pd...A/Gasoline.pdf
(We all know you shouldn't use Ethenol on older vehicles anyways..Rubber seals, etc werent set up for it)

It's a long, long read..But ultimately says the slight decrease in gas mileage is a direct result from the lower energy rating. (British thermal units)

The way I understand this is that it COULD happen, but it still operates within the 02 sensors range...The way I understand this from a technicians perspective is ---The 02 sensor should still switch from 0V to 1V (or 2.5V-5V depending on vehicle) without affecting fuel trim.
Correct me if I'm wrong...Like I said I don't doubt this theory...Just looking to verify it before I take it as fact..Thanks..

 

I am by no means an expert, I am just regurgitating what I have read in a couple of articles and also from some other posts on this site by knowledgeable org members.

In the link I refer to above, you'll see a few of those posts and I'll also link you to this article from a pretty reputable Canadian source. This is certainly not a "tech" article by any stretch, but it does state the same theory.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/051019.htm

I also remember reading it in another article somewhere, but I don't remember where.

I know this is not definitive proof, but after reading this theory in a couple of places and seeing evidence in my car of the decreased mileage in ethanol blended gasolines, that's enough to make me believe it.

 

Intresting...We have a mastertech so it would be really easy for me to check fuel trim and recheck again after a few tanks......

It's to bad there will always be way to many variables to ever know for sure...
I suppose one could use a personal OBD II scanner and software like AutoEnginuity offers and wait till their tank gets almost completely empty. Then fill up and check short term fuel trim.....
Either way....Thanks for the link.

 

Here on Long Island, the gas has 10% Ethanol