5thgenmaxima

iTrader: (1)

Coil # 1

Coil # 2


Coil # 3


Coil # 4


Coil # 5

5thgenmaxima

iTrader: (1)

Coil #6





The image above has all 6 coils listed in order of condition based on the amount of time it takes each coil to reach full saturation..(Best to worse is left to right)
(APX. 700-750 MV on the scope)
1=4.2ms or in order of condition 4. 3.2 MS
2=4.7 ms 5. 3.6 MS
3=3.9 ms 6. 3.8 MS
4=3.2 ms 3. 3.9 MS
5=3.6 ms 1. 4.2 MS
6=3.8 ms 2. 4.7 MS
(MS=millaseconds) (spelling??)
Also found here www.cardomain.com/ride/2195944/3

The data above is proof that the condition of each coil can be determined without the use of a scope. All that is needed is a DMM. Altough the front coils will have different specs than the rear..
For example:
You can see even though 4,5 and 6 have a higher resistance they are still in better condition than 1 and 2 when on the scope. (They acheive full saturation in a quicker amount of time)
(4 and 5 are 1.44, 1.58)
(1 and 2 are 1.54, 1.49)
(Comparing this data in accordance with the scope tells us that if you took a rear coil and a front coil in the same condition the front coils would have a lower resistence)
When comparing 4 5 and 6 only with each other you can see that the lower resistance the faster the primary coil reaches full saturation.
When comparing 1 2 and 3 with only each other you get the same result.


We will start with the front coils. You can see one and two failed miserably under throttle snaps of up to 3500-4000 PMS.

Again 1 and 2 @ 1.54 and 1.49 faild while 3 barely passed @ 1.44.
I would suspect @ that coil may also have a slightly cooler spark @ very high rpms and load. Not yet bad enough to cause a misfire, but defiently on it's way out.
Again 4 and 5 passed with some usage left on the coils @ 1.53 and 1.58, coil 6 is on it's way out @ 1.59 and in about the same condition as 3 @ 1.

My Conclusion is that I would defiently recommend replacing all 6 as they may slightly take away from high rpms performance.

However if you only wanted to replace the bad coils measuring resistance between 1 and 2 I would consider this a FAIRLY accurate pass/fail test.

Front coils
>1.43=Probably ok
1.43-1.47 = possible decrease in performance, coils going bad.
Roughly 1.48 + = coils could fail intermittantly at any time esp. under a load.

Rear Coils
>1.58=Probably ok
1.59-1.6*(?)= possible decrease in performance, coils going bad.
Roughly 1.6*(?) + = coils could fail intermittantly at any time.

(On another note, I have an expensive self ranging meter. All my read outs are in mega ohms. It seems continuanity between 3 and the other 2 pins are much higher in your coils. However all non-grey dot coils seem to fall into this "bad" or going bad catagory in roughly the resistence within .01 or .02 megaohms. There may be two desings of non-geay dot coils out that will may have two different specs. Further testing will be the only way to know for sure.)
I decided not to compare to your grey dot coils as they seem different and would need to go under a scope to see how they compared to the non-grey dot ones. (I only took this info from my tests and verified with Irish's non-gey dot coils..)
I suspect coil # 3 from irishs list would fail under a scope as well.

More info from others to verify would be very helpfull.
Esp since Trigger got the reading on all 6.


I didn't want to hijack this information thread, so I created a new one explaining in more detail how the coil works.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=459207

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I would think that there's a diode iside which lets currant go only one way.

CJ7

I have my old OEM coils at home that tossed an error "general failier" and were replaced. I'll report back what I find. My coils lasted till about 85k.

ZeRo MaX

iTrader: (4)

Good write up... I might have to check out mine!

Helio99

thanks for the write up I ran the check and things seemed fine

5thgenmaxima

iTrader: (1)

Helio what where your results? If you documented them could you please post them for each coil. If you didn't document each one seperately nevermind.

bigfatty

iTrader: (1)

5thgenmaxima you did not highjack anything, this is great info. I am also wondering who actually makes the gray dot coils if you buy them from Nissan, becuase I know for sure there are at least 2 companies, AC Delco and Wells, that you can them from Autozone. I wonder if they are of identical construction, or if they vary internally? That could be the difference between some of these readings. But thank you again you put some more iniformation out there that I did not have access too and that is exactly what we need more of. Information.

Fat

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

Just tested my coils. Sadly, all of them are fine.

75jihyun

Hello~

I got the same problem... so I followed yours...
I bought 6 coils, one of which may be bad coil at least, from one guy in this site. He told me these coils were changed some days ago for P1320. I checked 6 coils with my Multi-Tester... and I got results below.

Front
1: +1, -2 : 1.5
-1, +2 : 1.48
+1, -3 : --
-3, +1 : --
+2, -3 : --
+3, -2 : --

2: +1, -2 : 1.58
-1, +2 : 1.57
+1, -3 : --
-3, +1 : --
+2, -3 : --
+3, -2 : --

3: +1, -2 : 1.53
-1, +2 : 1.52
+1, -3 : --
-3, +1 : --
+2, -3 : --
+3, -2 : --

Rear
1: +1, -2 : 1.65
-1, +2 : 1.65
+1, -3 : --
-3, +1 : --
+2, -3 : --
+3, -2 : --

2: +1, -2 : 1.62
-1, +2 : 1.62
+1, -3 : --
-3, +1 : --
+2, -3 : --
+3, -2 : --

3: +1, -2 : --
-1, +2 : --
+1, -3 : --
-3, +1 : --
+2, -3 : --
+3, -2 : --

I don't know why I can't measure the values at +1, -3 and +2, -3.
Are they all bad coils? Or is there any problem in my method?
I set 20K ohms...They don't have dot

Please, help me~

Thanks~

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

Are you sure you you did everything correctly? I'm surprised your car is even running with such coils.

75jihyun

These are not from my car, but from a guy in this site.
I bought these 1 week ago by 70$, and I checked all of them today as you can see.
I did not detached mine yet because my car is very smooth up to now, got check engine light though.
The guy who sold me told me he changed these for P1320 some days ago... and don't know how many coils are bad.

You mean all coils are bad? T.T

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

ya, it seems like all of them are dead.

Let's see what others have to say.

75jihyun

I can see the same phenomena at the post of Trigger05.
Nobody know??

T.T

bigfatty

iTrader: (1)

If you got your meter at 20k its hard to screw up this test, combine that with all of your coils are the old ones, its very possible that they are all bad. Remember Nissan had so many problems with the original coils, a TSB was issued and the coils themselves were redesigned.

For the people with an engine that still ran smooth, but had the TCS SLIP and SES lights, it is still very possible to have a bad coil. I was in the same boat. I had one coil that made the engine run horrible and one that would only briefly fail while under load. That second coil still triggered the lights after I replaced the first really bad coil. Replace it soon as it will not get better on its own and will slowly get worse.

Fat

75jihyun

So... I tested mine today... only front coils.. as you know, rear one is hard to take out...

My car is very smooth, SES light is on though.
Especially, #4 of them was changed last november.

The measuring value was similar with the coils that I bought from one guy.
#2(XXXXX-XXXX7)
+1, -2: 1.82
-2, +1: 1.82
+1, -3: ---
+3, -1: ---
+2, -3: ---
+3, -2: ---

#4(XXXXX-XXXX7)
+1, -2: 1.86
-2, +1: 1.86
+1, -3: ---
+3, -1: ---
+2, -3: ---
+3, -2: ---

#6(XXXXX-XXXX6)
+1, -2: 1.77
-2, +1: 1.77
+1, -3: ---
+3, -1: ---
+2, -3: ---
+3, -2: ---

The reason I got the different resistant value( mine is about 1.8. this is a little bit more than the other guy's result... 1.5 or 1.6K) may be because this is defferent model. When you see the coil, you can see the model number, XXXXX-XXXX5. I think this was the first model of Hanshin? Mine were XXXXX-XXXX6 and 7.. There was some change... maybe.

Anyway~~ After cleaning these coils with an electronic cleaner, I installed again. Huck... After that, my SES light was gone. I tested my car for 10 minutes on the road... however the light keep off. What happen??? Anyway.. rightnow I don't have the light. Maybe tomorrow the light may be on or not~



Consequently... mine is not measuring the value except 1,2 but it is working well... I don't know the reason.... So... I decided the bad coil is Rear #3 among of 6coils that I bought.

Thank you guys...
If any problem... I will visit again~

SSandMaxima

Well, my Y2000 Max started throwing the dreaded P1320 about three weeks ago. It has 81000 miles. The SES came on, went off for a day or two, came back on. Both times that it came on, I was stopped at a light and felt the engine stumble/misfire. The cylinder code was not thrown.

I bought 6 Hanshin coils from a seller on ebay for $302 shipped. I also bought 6 new NGK plugs. The coils came sealed in "Genuine Nissan" packaging. I tested the Hanshin coils (grey dot) when I received them (will edit this note to put in the values later). In short, though, the 2/4/6 coils were as 75jihyun has posted: read about 1.69 (kohm?) on +1,2 and +2,1, and 10.5(Mohm?) on +1,3, +2,3. The 3,4,5 coils measured about 1.48 on +1,2 and +2,1, and 10.5 on +1,3, and +2,3.

(Edit: )Actual numbers:

New "Hanshin MCP-2860" in genuine nissan packaging with grey dot:
_______#2 _____#4 ______#6_____ #1____#3____#5
+1,2___ 1.63____1.60____1.55_____1.44____1.46___1.46
+1,3___10.0_____10.3____10.3_____10.8___10.8___10. 8
1,+2___1.63_____1.6_____1.55_____1.47___1.47___1.4 6
1,+3 i i i i i i
2,+3 i i i i i i
+2,3___9.91____10.3_____10.3____10.77___10.61__10. 49


Original 2000 Maxima no dot coils:
#2 #4 #6
+1,2 1.5 1.49 1.49
+1,3 10.61 10.4 10.3
1,+2 1.49 1.50 1.49
1,+3 i i i
2,+3 i i i
+2,3 10.62 10.46 10.46

So it looks to me like NOTHING can be said about absolute resistance across coils in an unpowered state, except that the front three should be similar to each other and the back three should be similar to each other.

Yesterday, I changed the front three coils and plugs. All old coils tested exactly the same, and all look like good coils from previous replies in this topic. The #4 plug was a bit oily, so I half way expected that coil to be bad, but it tested the same and #2 and #6. Anyway, I don't have a meter to reset the SES so I have to wait for a few cycles for SES to go off by itself or go by Autozone to get them to turn it off. (Edit: SES light went off by itself yesterday... after a couple days worth of starts. If it stays off for a week, I'll call it fixed. I believe it was the #4 coil/plug, but this test would not show anything to be out of order)


I figure I had a 50% chance of fixing it by swapping half the coils/plugs (I don't have a place to do it except work, so I have to do a quick job right after work... this swapping half at a time).

In short, though, I think that this method of checking coils is hit/miss. If a coil is REALLY bad in a way that can be picked up by a DMM, you got lucky (or unlucky, depending on how you look at it).

BTW, it took me about 18 minutes to change three coils and a plugs. I determined that a Nissan dealership makes about $500+ per hour in *profit* to fix this problem of ignition coil quality control on a set of 6 coils. IMHO, that is pretty close to criminal.

Nomad

iTrader: (5)

Nice write up!!! Our cars sucks on coils Got 4th cylinder bad. Still Have a question If mostly 5.0 gen sucks on coils would it make sence to buy 4th gen coils before '99 Since for example my brother has 4th gen 130k on the clock and no problems with them so far. Or Nissan sells shiet coils for all cars no matter what year it was produced?

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

Alright last week I replaced all 6 of my non-dotted coils with dotted ones.

These are the results of my test. I was throwing an SES, and 2 instances of P1320. Car was definitely misfiring consistently on one or two cylinders.

Can someone help me diagnose which coils are bad?



My guess is: 3 and 5?

edit: My coil #'s are not cylinder specific. I just pulled them and arbitrarily numbered them. In my diagram, 1-3 are rear coils.

beakersloco

Great write up its gonna save me some cash I hope because I also have a little one so I know what you mean.

Im thinking my car also has a bad coil or coils ... my car has no power at times and you can floor it and the car does not accellerate ... 2 times I started the car and backed out of the driveway and hit the gas and the SES light came on and I could hear a poping noise coming from under the hood. As soon as I let off the gas it stopped and a few moments later the light went back out and I was able to accelerate like normal. I took the car to a shop today and of course they could not find anything wrong with it but when I got theri and went to leave I was able to get the mechanic and show him the problem.. Im kinda glad they did not see if because I did not realize how expensive those coils were.

My car has never shutoff on me or idled rough or anything. Basically the wife told me about it ,I drove the car and did not see a problem 5 months ago and 2 months ago I started driving it daily and I am getting tired of driving a car that sometimes wont go when I hit the gas.

In the past I would simply carry the car to a shop but since spring is upon us I find myself feeling bolder in my wrenchin skills, in the past I would just have the wife carry it to the shop but the little one now makes is a nessecity not to carry vehicles to the shop just because I dont want to make time to work on them . Anything else I should look at while im under the hood ?

75jihyun

My last conclusion is that you have to wait until your car is quaking. Finally, my car started to shouting the misfire and I got the seriously bad one, #2. As soon as your car starts to quake, you can determine which one is bad by taking out one by one. If you take out the bad one, the quaking of car is same as I did. After taking out the coiI, I checked the resistor but it was same before. I think I am unfortunate. Anyway I have to find out 1 more... I feel a misfire sometimes, but I couldn't figure out yet which one is wrong.

Good luck everyone~

trigger005

iTrader: (8)

Wow dude, thanks for the life story.

trigger005

iTrader: (8)

Frestyl, if you have some extra time on your hands, one way you could test this is to put all the old coils except #3 and 5 back into your car... if it runs fine, then you know 3 and 5 are bad.

Or, you could do the opposite as well... put only 3 and 5 in and see if it misfires. If you try this please let us all know the results.

ahallmaxima

It took me a while to figure out which coils were bad ( I had two). I first replaced one of the bad ones (#3) and even though I had seen code P0303 once, I still got the misfire and the generic misfire code again. Wound up rotating back coils through until I determined there must be a front coil bad. So then I replaced #5 (thinking the #3 code maybe meant #5, the opposite one) and I didn't get a CEL for a long time went - so I thought I had nailed it.

Then just in the last month, bad misfire again and finally got P0301, which was the original #3 I had rotated - so DEFINITELY bad! Since I replaced that one, no problems at all.

I hadn't tried the resistance test but sounds like another debugging thing that would be helpful if not always a sure thing. But because you could have more than one bad coil, it is frustrating trying to debug this type of problem.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

Bah, too lazy. Already sold all 6...well, I sold 4 but gave him all 6.

Max_Gator

For the heck of it I tested the old coils that came with my 2k. To answer someone's earlier question - I could not get readings on +1-3 and +2-3 on the 20k scale either. So I tried each scale and got readings on the 20M scale - they are in the 16-18 range.

I'm almost positive some of my coils were bad since I was getting the dreaded 1320 code - and it went away after I changed them all out. But there is no way to tell that from this test. Perhaps the test only works in some instances - I don't know. The coils are arbitrarily numbered with rear first then front.


+1-2 1.6......1.52......1.55......1.59......1.65......1 .53
+1-3 17.47...18.09....17.80.....16.96....16.76.....17.1 6
-1+2 1.61.....1.52......1.55......1.59......1.65......1 .53
-1+3
-2+3
+2-3 17.46....18.04....17.76....16.92.....16.74....17.1 3

trigger005

iTrader: (8)

*bump*

An update on this for everyone's benifit.
Last week out of nowhere my SES, SLIP, and TCS lights went on. I didn't feel anything wrong with the car but I immediately knew there was a misfiring coil.

This didn't go away and got worse, rough idle, studdering.

OBD II indicated P1320, a code I had already memorized... heh

Took out all the coils and did 20k Ohm resistance check. Same result as in my previous post of only getting readings on 1 pair of the 3 pins... I have 5 original and 1 grey-dot coil.

But I noticed a pattern in that 1 resistance reading... all my coils were above 1.6V... except one which was 1.49V.

Changed that one and lights went away. Have not had lights come back since but I've only driven about 50 miles.

Sure glad I invested in those $35 backup used coils now!

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Got the P1320 code and checked my coils...results are as follows. They are all OE coils with no dots.

Rear (Cylinder #1)
+1-2 0.00
+1-3 9.64
-1+2 0.00
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 9.79

Rear (Cylinder #3)
+1-2 0.00
+1-3 9.70
-1+2 0.00
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 9.87

Rear (Cylinder #5)
+1-2 0.00
+1-3 10.02
-1+2 0.00
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 10.22

Front (Cylinder #2)
+1-2 1.55
+1-3 10.61
-1+2 1.56
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

Front (Cylinder #4)
+1-2 1.50
+1-3 ----
-1+2 1.50
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

Front (Cylinder #6)
+1-2 1.52
+1-3 ----
-1+2 1.51
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

Conclusions...it looks like ignition coils for cylinders #4 and #6 are bad. As far as the zero readings on the #1, #3, and #5 I checked and re-checked. I was very careful not to touch any of the insulation. Very weird...haven't seen anyone with zeros before.

Anyone else have feedback? I'm going to get these tomorrow and hopefully have them in by early next week.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Well I ended up ordering all 6 new ones from Dave Burnette. I'll get them on Tuesday. I'll probably replace two for the ones I think are bad (#4 and #6) and see what happens. If it fixes it then I'll just sell the others or hang onto them.

bigfatty

iTrader: (1)

The more and more people are posting these results its seems that there are either large variances in the multimeters or large variances in the coils. All things being equal, it sure seems that basically these coils are crap. Looking at the results I people are getting it is more important to look for a coil that a different reading than the other coils than it is to try and duplicate my results. Everyone who has posted results are a little different than mine. Maybe the coils wear differently, maybe the environment there are exposed (Midwest vs Cali), maybe how the car is driven...... I don't know but there definetly seems to be a pattern that show when you put all six of your coils on a meter.

I say start with your #4 and #6 like you said and I would definitely be curious as to see what your new coils tested out to also. Thanks for the new info.

Fat

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Below are the test results of the new coil packs I got. They are all gray dot. I only changed out the coil packs on cylinder #4 and #6 based on my test results from my old coils. So far after changing them the SES light was gone and no misfiring.

Rear (Cylinder #1)
+1-2 1.64
+1-3 ---
-1+2 1.64
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

Rear (Cylinder #3)
+1-2 1.76
+1-3 ---
-1+2 1.76
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

Rear (Cylinder #5)
+1-2 1.64
+1-3 ---
-1+2 1.64
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

Front (Cylinder #2)
+1-2 1.68
+1-3 ---
-1+2 1.69
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

Front (Cylinder #4)
+1-2 1.61
+1-3 ----
-1+2 1.62
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

Front (Cylinder #6)
+1-2 1.71
+1-3 ----
-1+2 1.71
-1+3 ---
-2+3 ---
+2-3 ---

illlojik

iTrader: (2)

I'm getting teh infamous P1320 code. I also have similar results with my old non grey dot coils. I tested the coils while changing my plugs. I was only able to get readings from +1,-2, and -1,+2. Also note that I don't get an SES light, just the ABS, SLIP and TCS off light. Any ideas if I'm doing this right?

illlojik

iTrader: (2)

Bump for answers, comments... AnyThinG???

some_dude

I'll throw in my two sense worth, as well as my coil readings:




Let me explain the 'Extra's. I was able to find (supposed) Borg Warner Ignition Coils that would fit, I ordered one rear and one front thinking that I only had one bad coil and through elimination I could find it. They do fit and look exactly like OEM coils, except the nissan logo and part number were erased by an engraver. The rear had a grey dot, the front had a sticker on it with a new part number convention and said made in japan. According to the chart, the extra front is the BW, but the extra rear is OEM. The extras have also been inside for a few weeks (different temp). #4 is actually the BW rear.

I used the 20k method to determine these values (same pin testing order as bigfatty's original data). I appear to be in the group that can only read pins 1 and 2. I can see no clear distinction between any of the coils. I suspect that the temperature is somewhat important (inside ones vs cold engine), but not if I'm just comparing between mine.

As I write this I am retesting at the 2k setting, which incidentally has a little diode symbol, I'm not sure what exactly I'm measuring, but I am getting values where I did not with the 20k and they are not just a magnitude of 10 different. more on that in the future.

I actually disconnected the battery when I pulled the coils this time, never did that before. I mostly did it to reset the SES light. Upon testing completion I took it for a spin and it ran the worst ever. The idle was down to 500 and would shake pretty bad, never stalled. Once I get it going faster, it didn't shake so bad, but never really accelerated smoothly. Also, when I let off the pedal, it seems to slow down really fast.

I leaning toward just replacing all of them.

Sorry for the life story...

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

Since P1320 is such a common code these days, I've included this write-up in the FAQs.

http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=129

RUDE MAX

iTrader: (6)

2000, less than 60k, original coils

Driver side: 1.46
Cyl 4: 1.52
Passenger side: 1.44

Code for cyl 4 misfire thrown a few weeks ago.
I'm waiting for replacement coil.
Cheap multimeter, but should give good relative readings (numbers were stable).

Great write up!!!

Rude Max

mms

Alright I have a 1995 SE. My wife was told by the mechanic that I have two bad coils, but I don’t know which ones. So I did the test and my results are below. I cannot figure out which of the coils are bad. Can someone help me figure this out? Thanks for the help!

Front coils going from passenger side(#1) to driver side(#3)
#1
+1-2 1.8
+1-3 6.57
-1+2 1.8
-1+3 i
-2+3 i
+2-3 6.56

#2
+1-2 1.67
+1-3 7.15
-1+2 1.67
-1+3 i
-2+3 i
+2-3 7.15

#3
+1-2 1.56
+1-3 7.41
-1+2 1.56
-1+3 i
-2+3 i
+2-3 7.43

back coils going from passenger side(#4) to driver side(#6)
#4
+1-2 1.53
+1-3 9.08
-1+2 1.54
-1+3 i
-2+3 i
+2-3 9.14

#5
+1-2 1.49
+1-3 8.87
-1+2 1.49
-1+3 i
-2+3 i
+2-3 8.88

#6
+1-2 1.52
+1-3 8.82
-1+2 1.52
-1+3 i
-2+3 i
+2-3 8.82

Oldnewbie

Here's my best guess...

Frequently, a diode is placed across the inputs of a coil (in reverse bias orientation) to allow current to flow in the coil normally (which builds up the electromagnetic field that does the work) and then, to shunt or short out the current spike of opposite polarity that is generated when the driving current is cut off and the electromagnetic field of the coil collapses. If this reversed polarity spike from the collapsing field was not shunted or shorted between the input leads via the diode, it might delay the decay of the inducing field and/or the spike would travel back through the input lines and do harm to or interfere with the current generating/regulating circuit.

mms

Guys,

This is a follow-up on to post #61.

I went ahead and bought two front coils to replace coil #1 and #2. Bought 1 coil from Pep Boys (Borg Wagner) and the other from Autozone (Duralast). They both only had 1 in stock each. I tested the coils and below is the result I got:

Borg Wagner (used to replace coil 1)
+1-2 1.51
+1-3 9.89
-1+2 1.51
-1+3 i
-2+3 i
+2-3 9.83

Duralast (used to replace coil 2)
+1-2 1.55
+1-3 9.34
-1+2 1.55
-1+3 i
-2+3 i
+2-3 9.28

I followed the instructions and disconnected my negative from the car’s battery and replaced the original coils. My car seems to have actually gotten worse. It’s miss-firing even more. Can anyone give me any advice? Did I replace the wrong coils?

Thanks again for the help!

AceofSpds

iTrader: (4)

Make shure they are attached b/c you might have one that isnt on the spark plug all the way or the clip may not be in all the way and that might cause it to be missing more