opinions on aluminum flywheel on a 3.5
02-22-2006, 03:16 PM
#1
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opinions on aluminum flywheel on a 3.5
Some people say to not upgrade the aluminum flywheels because they warp easier and also they drop down in revs quickly when shifting because of less rotating mass. I also read that some other people have had problems with the aluminum flywheels because of the ring gear. Should I just stay factory or go aluminum. Listed are the optional aluminum flywheels and weight.
JWT 15 LBS
Fidanza 13.5lbs
SPEC ?lbs
JWT 15 LBS
Fidanza 13.5lbs
SPEC ?lbs
02-22-2006, 03:28 PM
#2
I have the Fidanza on my 3.5. I did have a problem with the ring gear being too small. It had one less tooth and was about a half centimeter smaller in diameter. That was causing the starter gear to roll over the ring gear and cause a horrible grinding at start up. When I pulled it apart after about two weeks the teeth were all chewed up. I sent it back and they put a Nissan ring gear on it. I measured it against the stock when reinstalling it and it was perfect. Now it's great. Having to do 3 clutch jobs instead of just the one was knid of a b!tch though.
The car feels faster with it. I also felt a difference when I removed it and put the stock one back in. That tells me it wasn't just in my head.
The car feels faster with it. I also felt a difference when I removed it and put the stock one back in. That tells me it wasn't just in my head.
02-22-2006, 04:36 PM
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so if I went with a fidanza all I would need to do is go the the nissan dealership and ask them for a oem ring gear and then just install it in on the new flywheel. Does this also apply to the other flywheels. I heard the same issue that you had with the JWT.
02-22-2006, 08:22 PM
#5
Originally Posted by inspiredbykev
so if I went with a fidanza all I would need to do is go the the nissan dealership and ask them for a oem ring gear and then just install it in on the new flywheel. Does this also apply to the other flywheels. I heard the same issue that you had with the JWT.
I have heard the same thing about the JTW unit also. I heard they didn't stand behind it either. That's what I heard here though and not my experience. Fidanza stood behind it and impressed me with their customer service.
Call Wayne at Fidanza (440) 259-5656 and ask him if they've gotten it straight. He helped me out and knows about the problem. They also helped me with the Clutchmaster stage 3 which was way out of balance and causing bad vibrations. I sent the flywheel and clutch to them and they balanced it for free and even paid shipping back. I think they felt bad about the flywheel being messed up. Definately a stand up company!
Also, have the clutch and flywheel balanced at a machine shop. I couldn't find anyone in my area to do it which is why Fidanza helped out. I was getting a bad vibration in neutral when reving or at idle. Even if the flywheel wasn't wrong I would have had to do it over because of that.
So, 2 things to make sure of.
*Have the whole assembly balanced.(clutch/flywheel) It may be a pain finding a shop that can do it but not as bad as doing the install twice.
*Measure the ring gear diameter against the stock one during instal. Hopefully they've straightened the problem out but call wayne.
The install isn't too bad. Just a lot of work. Are you doing it your self?
02-23-2006, 04:39 AM
#7
Shouldn't be too much. Around $20 or $30. The problem is finding a shop to do it. I live in a pretty large area and could only find one shop that did that kind of work. They couldn't do it because it had a weird bolt pattern that didn't match up to their machine.
You may find one down the street or you may have to send it off.
You may find one down the street or you may have to send it off.
02-23-2006, 09:38 AM
#9
Originally Posted by 3 blue merks
I wouldn't get one. If it's for a daily driver then they are ok but for performance wise, they suck.
02-23-2006, 01:21 PM
#11
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I heard from someone that if you have a lightened flywheel and lightened pulley its not good.
I already have a lightened crank pulley installed. If I installed this lightened flywheel would I have any problems or check engine light?
I already have a lightened crank pulley installed. If I installed this lightened flywheel would I have any problems or check engine light?
02-23-2006, 04:33 PM
#12
I don't see how it cause a problem to have both. It definately won't throw any codes.
I don't see how anyone could say light weight flywheels suck for performance unless they have no experience with them in a Maxima. Probably just repeating what someone else said about some other application.
A lightened flywheel isn't for every car. Drag cars with a lot of power and a lot of traction use heavier flywheels because they hit harder during a launch. That will never be a problem for a Maxima. Our biggest challenge is not spinning the tires.
It does make the car drive a bit differently. Double clutching is faster because the engine revs faster in neutral. It's also a bit easier to stall when taking off due to the lack of rotating mass. It's not a problem at all. You just have to adjust to it and it feels normal. Sort of like driving a different car. Not bad just different.
Another cool thing is that the car starts up faster and easier. Just barely turn the key and it jumps to life and revs to almost 2000 rpm. Almost like it's excited and ready to get driving.
I don't see how anyone could say light weight flywheels suck for performance unless they have no experience with them in a Maxima. Probably just repeating what someone else said about some other application.
A lightened flywheel isn't for every car. Drag cars with a lot of power and a lot of traction use heavier flywheels because they hit harder during a launch. That will never be a problem for a Maxima. Our biggest challenge is not spinning the tires.
It does make the car drive a bit differently. Double clutching is faster because the engine revs faster in neutral. It's also a bit easier to stall when taking off due to the lack of rotating mass. It's not a problem at all. You just have to adjust to it and it feels normal. Sort of like driving a different car. Not bad just different.
Another cool thing is that the car starts up faster and easier. Just barely turn the key and it jumps to life and revs to almost 2000 rpm. Almost like it's excited and ready to get driving.
02-23-2006, 05:53 PM
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Derrick2k2SE if I go with fidanza should I keep the oem clutch or go with clutchmasters stage I. I heard the oem clutches are good for 400lbs of torque. Seems to be plenty but I want a clutch that grabs as soon as you let go of the pedal.
02-23-2006, 07:54 PM
#15
Originally Posted by inspiredbykev
Derrick2k2SE if I go with fidanza should I keep the oem clutch or go with clutchmasters stage I. I heard the oem clutches are good for 400lbs of torque. Seems to be plenty but I want a clutch that grabs as soon as you let go of the pedal.
The Fidanza is solid and the stage 1 disk is sprung which absorbs the shock. I don't know what it would be like driving with a solid flywheel and solid stock disk. It may be harsh on the tranny when shifting hard.
I think the stock clutch would be fine with a stage 1 sprung disk and solid flywheel. While I had the flywheel and clutch out to be balanced I was running with the stock clutch, new stage 3 disk and stock flywheel. I took it to the track and was barking the tires shifting into third with drag radials. No sliping what so ever.
I was getting a lot of chatter with that setup though. I think that was from running the sprung disk with the stock dual mass flywheel. Too much play. This was after more than 1500 miles with a long break in period of easy driving. When I put the new pieces back in the chatter went right away. I still get a small amount sometimes but it's no big deal and seems to be getting less and less with miles.
I think the stage 1 disk (organic) would be smoother than the segmented kevlar stage 3. If I had to do it again I would go with the stage 1. When you order the clutch you are actually getting a 350Z clutch. When they say 70% more force than stock they mean 70% more than a stock 350Z clutch.
What kind of driving do you do that requires a stronger clutch? Will you ever run drag tires? Are you planning in using any forced induction? That will really determine which set up is better.
My stock clutch never slipped till I started using drag radials at the track. Before that I raced on street tires and never had a problem. That was with 90k on it.
02-24-2006, 04:44 AM
#16
Originally Posted by 2kmaxinblack
i would def go with Fidenza, they make very high quality flywheels, and increadably light too
02-24-2006, 04:45 AM
#17
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I have some lightweight enkei rims and I was going to get some bf drag radials for the front when I hit up the track. I have all bolt ons. I plan on staying NA. I want to get a lightened flywheel and I figured I would change the clutch while I'm at it. So a clutchmasters stage 1 wouldn't be too harsh on the tranny and would go well with a fidanza flywheel. Also I want a light pedal feeling. When my friend had his 3.0 with act in it it was hard, when he put the exedy in it was light and much better.
02-24-2006, 04:48 AM
#18
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Wouldn't any gain be a zero sum or close to it? With a higher rotating mass, the flywheel can store energy, helps off the line and shifts. Take mass off the flywheel and it will help with acceleration.
It probably all comes out in the wash.
I never trust seat-of-the-pants feedback. Placebo effect, sorry. SOme guys can put magnets on their fuel line and swear it made the car faster. The air temp outside can affect horsepower more than shaving a few pounds off the flywheel, so who knows. Even on a dyno, the numbers can vary +/- 5% depending on whether it's a full moon or not.
Unless you are making money from racing the car, I'd opt for reliability. I've learned that the hard way.
It probably all comes out in the wash.
I never trust seat-of-the-pants feedback. Placebo effect, sorry. SOme guys can put magnets on their fuel line and swear it made the car faster. The air temp outside can affect horsepower more than shaving a few pounds off the flywheel, so who knows. Even on a dyno, the numbers can vary +/- 5% depending on whether it's a full moon or not.
Unless you are making money from racing the car, I'd opt for reliability. I've learned that the hard way.
02-24-2006, 04:54 AM
#19
Originally Posted by itdood
Wouldn't any gain be a zero sum or close to it? With a higher rotating mass, the flywheel can store energy, helps off the line and shifts. Take mass off the flywheel and it will help with acceleration.
It probably all comes out in the wash.
I never trust seat-of-the-pants feedback. Placebo effect, sorry. SOme guys can put magnets on their fuel line and swear it made the car faster. The air temp outside can affect horsepower more than shaving a few pounds off the flywheel, so who knows. Even on a dyno, the numbers can vary +/- 5% depending on whether it's a full moon or not.
Unless you are making money from racing the car, I'd opt for reliability. I've learned that the hard way.
It probably all comes out in the wash.
I never trust seat-of-the-pants feedback. Placebo effect, sorry. SOme guys can put magnets on their fuel line and swear it made the car faster. The air temp outside can affect horsepower more than shaving a few pounds off the flywheel, so who knows. Even on a dyno, the numbers can vary +/- 5% depending on whether it's a full moon or not.
Unless you are making money from racing the car, I'd opt for reliability. I've learned that the hard way.
I would tend to agree with you except for the fact that this is MAXIMA.ORG
02-24-2006, 05:54 AM
#20
Originally Posted by itdood
Wouldn't any gain be a zero sum or close to it? With a higher rotating mass, the flywheel can store energy, helps off the line and shifts. Take mass off the flywheel and it will help with acceleration.
It probably all comes out in the wash.
I never trust seat-of-the-pants feedback. Placebo effect, sorry. SOme guys can put magnets on their fuel line and swear it made the car faster. The air temp outside can affect horsepower more than shaving a few pounds off the flywheel, so who knows. Even on a dyno, the numbers can vary +/- 5% depending on whether it's a full moon or not.
Unless you are making money from racing the car, I'd opt for reliability. I've learned that the hard way.
It probably all comes out in the wash.
I never trust seat-of-the-pants feedback. Placebo effect, sorry. SOme guys can put magnets on their fuel line and swear it made the car faster. The air temp outside can affect horsepower more than shaving a few pounds off the flywheel, so who knows. Even on a dyno, the numbers can vary +/- 5% depending on whether it's a full moon or not.
Unless you are making money from racing the car, I'd opt for reliability. I've learned that the hard way.
Like I said a few posts ago, a rear drive car with huge slicks will use the stored energy in the heavy flywheel to fold up the slicks and have a strong launch. I just don't think that applies to a Maxima with bolt ons. I could see it if he did major mods which moved his power into the higher RPM range leaving him lacking in the low range but it's just not the case with his car.
I fully agree that the placebo effect can come into play. I might not feel so sure if I hadn't felt the gain after instaling it then felt the loss after removig it. Most of us can feel the difference when we fill the tank after running it pretty low or have people in the car. That's not placebo. That's what the car felt like when I removed it. Sound also comes into play with the placebo effect. Put on an intake and the car will feel like it's gained 20 HP just because it sounds strong. The flywheel doesn't have that advantage.
I don't think Fidanza has a quality issue. They made a mistake and stood behind it 100%. They kept in touch with me while they had my parts and were figuring out what was wrong. They even handled my clutch issue even though it was not their responsability at all. That's better than most of the stories I hear about how people are treated at Nissan dealers.
02-24-2006, 06:53 AM
#21
Originally Posted by Derrick2k2SE
What you are saying about storing energy is true but it doesn't apply to the Maxima. Even with drag radials the Maxima will break the tires loose with ease. More energy during the launch won't make the car any faster. Once the clutch is fully engaged and the car is moving under the power of the motor the flywheel is dead rotating mass. The shift into second is the same story.
Like I said a few posts ago, a rear drive car with huge slicks will use the stored energy in the heavy flywheel to fold up the slicks and have a strong launch. I just don't think that applies to a Maxima with bolt ons. I could see it if he did major mods which moved his power into the higher RPM range leaving him lacking in the low range but it's just not the case with his car.
I fully agree that the placebo effect can come into play. I might not feel so sure if I hadn't felt the gain after instaling it then felt the loss after removig it. Most of us can feel the difference when we fill the tank after running it pretty low or have people in the car. That's not placebo. That's what the car felt like when I removed it. Sound also comes into play with the placebo effect. Put on an intake and the car will feel like it's gained 20 HP just because it sounds strong. The flywheel doesn't have that advantage.
I don't think Fidanza has a quality issue. They made a mistake and stood behind it 100%. They kept in touch with me while they had my parts and were figuring out what was wrong. They even handled my clutch issue even though it was not their responsability at all. That's better than most of the stories I hear about how people are treated at Nissan dealers.
Like I said a few posts ago, a rear drive car with huge slicks will use the stored energy in the heavy flywheel to fold up the slicks and have a strong launch. I just don't think that applies to a Maxima with bolt ons. I could see it if he did major mods which moved his power into the higher RPM range leaving him lacking in the low range but it's just not the case with his car.
I fully agree that the placebo effect can come into play. I might not feel so sure if I hadn't felt the gain after instaling it then felt the loss after removig it. Most of us can feel the difference when we fill the tank after running it pretty low or have people in the car. That's not placebo. That's what the car felt like when I removed it. Sound also comes into play with the placebo effect. Put on an intake and the car will feel like it's gained 20 HP just because it sounds strong. The flywheel doesn't have that advantage.
I don't think Fidanza has a quality issue. They made a mistake and stood behind it 100%. They kept in touch with me while they had my parts and were figuring out what was wrong. They even handled my clutch issue even though it was not their responsability at all. That's better than most of the stories I hear about how people are treated at Nissan dealers.
02-24-2006, 08:28 AM
#22
Originally Posted by rbrown81
Do you know if Fidanza has fully resolved the issues with their flywheel now?
They're a large company with a lot of resources and I don't see any advantage to them not fixing it. Especially when they already have the solution. They were very interrested to hear what I had to say and about the measurements I took. They seemed very concerned with figuring out what happened so they could correct it. They even had me speak with one of their designers/engineers because HE had questions. They make these in very low numbers so it's not like they have a bunch of bad ones they need to move first.
Also, it wasn't an issue of poor quality, design or craftmanship. It was simply the wrong part.
02-24-2006, 04:07 PM
#23
I had a fidanza on my 99 3.0. I definetely noticed the revs in 1st, and even 2nd be a little quicker, and the tires squeal a little easier. I didn't really feel or notice a great rpm drop when off the throttle, that actually felt pretty much like before. I had the flywheel with a stage I clutch, and that did cause a lot of chatter, but if you rev a little higher on roll out it wasn't so bad. The chatter was only there when letting out the clutch on roll out. If you go with a stock clutch you probably won't even have that problem. I don't see the light weight flywheel acting any differently on a 3.5 than it did on my 3.0.
02-24-2006, 04:56 PM
#24
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So if I get the fidanza lightweight flywheel I should keep the stock clutch to avoid chatter. In the begining of the thread it was mentioned that our clutch disk is unsprung (solid) so that would be harsh on the tranny. So I think what would solve this would to buy the oem clutch and get a clutchmasters clutch disk stage I which is sprung. Or just should I just get the stage I kit, maybe since its a stage I it wont chatter with the flywheel.
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