Pics.. Sorry its hard to get closeup shots with this camera, it wont focus on things really close.

 

Welds look good.

 

wow that looks nice, hows the install on that? does it require any drilling or do all the connections use factory points?

just to make sure, this would not replace a LTB or RSB correct, its compliments them?

 

 

Wow. Get Those Into Production, Now!!!

 

What, no driving impressions part???

 

I was just about to post the same thing.

 

wow, that looks great! how does it handle/feel?

 

That's really nice. Let us know how it works out for you.

 

nice...so where is the "initial review" part?

 

ill take me a set!

 

 

Alright heres the Initial review part.

I was exhausted after driving around all day so I actually fell asleep after posting those last 5 pics. I woke up like 5 mins ago. So heres the initial review.

I havent had a chance to determine yet how the car handles curves but over the bumps the car is much more subdued in nature. There is less crash from the suspension transmitted into the cabin, although huge potholes will still shake yah pretty good especially when you have your illuminas set to 5/5 like me. Wierd enough I got to test the SFCs effect on handling huge potholes cause I went to go visit my buddy after getting them insttalled and he literally lives on some of the worst roads ever. On the highway there (on 495 going down to cape cod) there was about a 4in rounded ridge going across the highway which I hit doing about 85 and it was probably the single biggest impact I've had in that car so far. I am pretty sure the car got airborne a few inches right after hitting that ridge in the road. It would have been even worse without the SFCs. The car in general feels tighter in transitional movements. I did a little ricer driving on the highway where I changed lanes semi agressivly at the cars max speed andthe car was more willing to change directions quicker which is really nice.

Interior rattles that had developed shortly after getting my Eibachs/Illuminas and toyo proxe 4s are now completly gone.

Ground clearence is pretty much stock. I doubt I even lost an inch.

I am 95% sure I am going to foam the stage 1 tubing to futher stiffen it and cut down to an even higher degree on vibration transferred into the cabin.

Overall I am positive about this mod so far. I think people with coilovers or the 3rd and 4th gen guys with less rigid chassis to begin with will benefit to an even greater degree, but for me this allows me to run my Illuminas at 5/5 (get the handling benefits of having the shocks so stiff) while also taking the rough edge off the ride enough to deal with it at full stiff every day.

 

This is good to hear.

 

questions:

how much did it cost you?

how much do you think stage 1 will cost? (including welding and paining the welds)

IIRC I got a metal piece that is bolted to the subframe and the chassis here. Did you have to remove it or you didn't have that piece before?



BTW: Are you planning to cover it with undercoat? Since SFCs are now an important part of the chassis I would not want them to start rusting...

 

I havent talked to my fabricator but I am assuming it would be around 200 for stage 1. If its higher or lower than this please dont get crazy on me guys. I am throwing approx estimates out there. So please know that ahead of time. That metal piece is on all the cars, you have to take it out. It looks really beefy and strong but when its off the car you realize its really light and not that substantial. That thin little 3/4 tubing that I have going across the middle is much stonger. All the areas that were welded are covered with undercoat thats why the welds look a little messed up on the frame rails, its cause they are covered in paint and rubberized undercoat. The area where the SFCs tie into the front (behind the front wheels) was actually bolted in. I told my fabricator you decide how you want to tie this into the front here. I need access to those bolt holes and I want to perserve ground clearence cause after the front tires go over something like a speed bump they are going to be coming down right on that area, so it looks like my fabricator had the same Idea Matt Blehm had which was use a couple bolts instead of welding it up front, which is alright with me.


Further review.. I just went out and hit some twisties, actually almost got myself in quite a bit of trouble with the 5-0. I was moving quite quickly along a back road and an officer of the law was traveling in the other direction and I passed him going... a wee bit too fast.. anyway I got away but that ended my review session for the night. But the information I gathered is that the SFCs do have quite an effect on handling. I am absolutly sure of this. But the thing is you wouldent know it just from going down the highway, once you start pushing the car though you notice the suspension doing its work a lot more efficiently, the tires seem less stressed and yet your going faster. It really does feel like a higher end luxury sport sedan like (and this is a bad example because in terms of handling feel they are completly different car FWD vs RWD) an M3. Also I made sure this time to hit bumps around my house which I am very familiar with. Bumps that the car used to crash over and rattle all the change in ash tray now are handled in style, just a low pitched thud, very much like bmws I've been in.

Ohh yeah my total for everything was 430$
Total material cost was 130.70$ so he basically did the fabrication and install for 300$

 

no drilling needed, those bolts bolted right into holes that were already on the car from the factory.

 

What material is used for the SFC assembly? Mild Steel or Chromoly? You stated that it's "light," what is the actual weight? What grade bolts were used and how much clearance between your lines and the bolts?

Seems like some of the welds were done poorly (Ref: Post #4 : Picture #5).

 

It was Mild steel DOM tubing. Stage 1 was 1.5" x .095" and stage 2 used 3/4" x .120" . All the welds are covered in paint and the welds where the stage 1 connects to the frame rails and the chassis in general are all covered in rubberized under coat.. if you touch it, its soft. Its not the weld your lookin at. Lol that would be a LOT of excess welding material used. For a better look at the actual welds look at the end of the 3/4" tubing, at the ends where it is crushed down the end is welded to seal it shut. They were grade A bolts. Clearence between the bolt and the lines is about an inch to a half inch if my memory serves me correctly. I dont know how much everything weighed exactly, but 1.5" x .095" mild steel tubing is just under 1.3Lbs/ft and I dont know exactly how much the 3/4" tubing is but I would assume around 1lb/ft. The 1/4" thick steel stock used for the tabs is generally pretty light at around 10lbs/sq.ft which less than a half square foot was used.

I am not sure exactly how much it weighs but its less than 50lbs for sure.

Here is some info about tubing.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...0/index1a.html

also here is some comparisons of strength between different types of tubing

Chromoly
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...alloy_tube.htm

Mild steel
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...arbon_tube.htm


You could use chromoly for SFCs but it would need to be TIG welded instead of MIG welded which takes more time, and also you would need to temper the cromoly tubing to see the strength difference.

Basically for a similar setup using chromoly, you'de be looking to spend 1k at least.

I instead used the strongest mild steel tubing that could be safely mig welded to get the most strength with only the added cost of the DOM tubing over standard seam welded ERW tubing

 

That looks very nice, and you got a potential customer here. Now ask him if hes willing to make duplicate copies and I will send you my $$$.

If I continue driving my car like I have been, my chassis will colapse/bend sooner or later from all the stress it sees- and i need it to last another 160K miles before I think about upgrading.

 

Congrats man, I'm happy you finally got these things! Pics look good. Foam dat chit and foam your frame rails too.

Dude, I know Eibachs are stiff springs, but 5/5 is almost certainly not the optimal Illumina setting for handling, and obviously it's bad for ride quality. I would try 3/4 and see how you like it. Stiffer and less rebound is better but only to a point. You need to match it to your particular springs. So I'm saying 5/5 ain't gonna give you sport/luxury that you say you want, and it may not even be the best setting for pure sport.

 

does this actualy do anything for the car?

 

Is there any possibility that you have the measurements of all the fabricated pieces? I'd like to ask my fabricator at work if he can replicate this piece.

Thanks.

 

As far as I understand, that metal piece creates an affect of stiffer subframe bushings. When removed, subframe bushings should flex even more, thus, steering should get even less precise during hard cornering and bushings should wear out much faster. (I really hope that there's something wrong with my reasoning and would appreciate if you could prove me wrong. lol)

 

very cool bro can you make me something like that for the underneath with my materials labor costs thanks.

Mike

 

Ohh I know. Its more for handling feel. Response is a little sharper at 5/5 (and of course thats only on good roads, on bad roads they are most of the time too stiff). And at 5/5 the suspension is deff over shocked (if thats the right word) which is why I wanted to try binding the first coil of the Eibachs to raise the spring rate to match the 5/5 setting. The shocks and springs are best matched when the illuminas are either at 3/3 or 4/4.

Drklop: I dont knwo what metal peices your talking about but Matt Blehmco said I was missing some metal piece there too, thats how my car was when I got it. But the bolts that bolt into those holes are short, and if you fit your pinky into either of those bolt holes you would see that they are over an inch deep so you can screw a bolt into them without hitting the bushings (if that is in deed where the front subframe bushings are)

 

Wow. I really like how it makes the front end raise even when the rear is on ramps .Other than that, Its about time to change your sig. Good job

 

Did you read the post??? WTF?

 

Wow. wowowow. You aren't kidding. Looks good, but be wary of those welds, my friend.

 

With Grade A bolts, and correct me if I'm wrong on this one Engineers, I don't think there's enough strength on those bolts to prevent them from deforming on the forces exerted on them. I'm adamant about purchasing these without proper testing...so get to testing!

I'd prefer Grade 5 or Grade 8 fasteners for some strength. And rechecking the pictures on the welds, I still think some of the welds were done poorly. It seems like there's some cold welds present and spatter (Ref: Post 12 Picture #4).

In all, I think the job was done correctly. It could use some more precision welding. I'm sure the shop that did this is reputable, but there's something lacking in the quality of the job (yours in particular). Why I'm critical about these welds is that this factors in to the safety. And I guess being a stickler to quality components, I'm not much of help.

 

Did you read my response to his post on that one. The pic he was referring to was the welds on the tab on the frame rail, but of course that area has to be completly recovered with rubberized undercoat.. so your looking at the rubberized undercoat not the welds those big bubbles sticking out of the welds are soft and rubbery. To actually see the welds look at the welding in the middle where the the stage 2 bracing is all welded together. I took pics of that as well, although its covered with paint, you can still get an idea of the quality of welds because those welds are only covered with paint, not paint and undercoat.

 

that's the piece I'm talking about:



You mean you did not have it before??

Could anyone else comment on the importance of this metal piece?

 

Naww I never had that piece on my car. I did buy it used but the people who had it before were a family with a couple young kids, so I doubt it was ever modded.

 

It improves handling and ride quality. It stiffens and "unifies" the chassis.

 

sciff....

it's kind of ironic that you are working on frame stiffening, yet the two "mystery" bolt holes are supposed to have a hefty metal piece that attaches the frame to the front subframe....which apparently is missing from your car...I wonder if only SE models have it, to stiffen things up a bit

 

That stinks. I guess I could have one fabbed up but thats more $

 

Excuse me, who gave you permission to use pics of my car in your posts?

 

Your car...?? I knew there was something familiar about that looking LTB...

 

you're just jealous that my LTB maks more adds more horsepower than yours, because it's red.

 

Those things are tiny.