Timing Advance & Frankencar Intake Done!
08-04-2006, 09:24 PM
#1
Timing Advance & Frankencar Intake Done!
Got my intake (frankencar) w/ apexi filter on. Wasn't too dificult. I used the pics from memebers to quickly get er done.
I used some zipties to hold the intake up so it wouldn't just lay on the fender. (i guess a piece was missing which straps the intake down to the strut tower.
I rolled down to the dealership in totowa.
I slipped the rep a quick $20.00 and he brought out the consult 2 (Nissan). he was mad cool. I handed him the instructions.
The weird thing was when we went into the ingition adjustment..it stated crrctd ign tim -1degree. ign timing 14btdc. (and i run super here in jersey not to mention b/4 i took trip to totowa i put some octance booster in)
Had him bump upto crrctd ign tim 2degree. Ign timing 17btdc. Then we did the idle air vol learn. The wierd thing it wouldn't take. We tried 3 times. I finally said..lets try turning the car off and than restarting everything. Well it did the trick. I got a print out of the changes.
Between the intake and the ign timing adv i really didn't notice a difference.
Yeah..the car is a little louder but doesn't feel any stronger down low (between 2k-3k rpms).
1. Does it take time to really feel a difference? like ecu self learning? After having everything done..i drove the car around for atleast 75 miles.
2. I thought that the timing was supposed to increase the off the line power on autos..and make the car jump to 2krmps...when doing rolling starts??
3. Is strapping the intake down really necessary?
4. I used the stock piece for the throttle body..should i have just used the silicon adapter?
Any help appreciated..
Chas
I used some zipties to hold the intake up so it wouldn't just lay on the fender. (i guess a piece was missing which straps the intake down to the strut tower.
I rolled down to the dealership in totowa.
I slipped the rep a quick $20.00 and he brought out the consult 2 (Nissan). he was mad cool. I handed him the instructions.
The weird thing was when we went into the ingition adjustment..it stated crrctd ign tim -1degree. ign timing 14btdc. (and i run super here in jersey not to mention b/4 i took trip to totowa i put some octance booster in)
Had him bump upto crrctd ign tim 2degree. Ign timing 17btdc. Then we did the idle air vol learn. The wierd thing it wouldn't take. We tried 3 times. I finally said..lets try turning the car off and than restarting everything. Well it did the trick. I got a print out of the changes.
Between the intake and the ign timing adv i really didn't notice a difference.
Yeah..the car is a little louder but doesn't feel any stronger down low (between 2k-3k rpms).
1. Does it take time to really feel a difference? like ecu self learning? After having everything done..i drove the car around for atleast 75 miles.
2. I thought that the timing was supposed to increase the off the line power on autos..and make the car jump to 2krmps...when doing rolling starts??
3. Is strapping the intake down really necessary?
4. I used the stock piece for the throttle body..should i have just used the silicon adapter?
Any help appreciated..
Chas
08-05-2006, 12:27 AM
#2
1. ecu learning MIGHT help...but at the same time, intakes tend to lose low end tq...so the timing advance you did, made up for the loss of low end from the intake...
2. most vq35s gain great throttle response after doing the 17 degree....but not necessarily hp gains...vq30s however, heard they gain some nice hp from this mod
3. no not really...make sure all the coupler clamps are tight...thats about it
4. yes this is fine...the stock piece is actually very large in inner diameter...so it serves well
2. most vq35s gain great throttle response after doing the 17 degree....but not necessarily hp gains...vq30s however, heard they gain some nice hp from this mod
3. no not really...make sure all the coupler clamps are tight...thats about it
4. yes this is fine...the stock piece is actually very large in inner diameter...so it serves well
08-05-2006, 12:32 AM
#3
Originally Posted by steven88
2. most vq35s gain great throttle response after doing the 17 degree....but not necessarily hp gains...vq30s however, heard they gain some nice hp from this mod
08-05-2006, 01:05 AM
#4
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If you did a dyno before and after or a went to the track you would know......I didn't see any gains from the timing advance, but I have a crappy 60' so I cant talk. Congrats on the mods. the next best thing you can do is get a y pipe.
08-05-2006, 08:55 PM
#8
VQ35's don't really get much out of a timing advance. VQ30DE-Ks on the other hand, do. And it's noticeable.
It goes way beyond just "throttle response". I've tuned it down, and then back up again, and the differences are definitely noticeable during WOT on the highway. 20-40MPH, 55-70MPH is where you'll notice it the most.
It goes way beyond just "throttle response". I've tuned it down, and then back up again, and the differences are definitely noticeable during WOT on the highway. 20-40MPH, 55-70MPH is where you'll notice it the most.
08-06-2006, 03:16 PM
#9
how long does it take for the idle air vol learn process to go through? because my friend works a the dealership and we were able to do the ign adv, but when we told the consult II to do the idle air vol learn a please wait popped up and we left it there for 10 mins while we went to go look at this badass 350z they were supercharging and we came back and that thing hadnt finished? any ideas?
08-06-2006, 04:22 PM
#11
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where are you guys getting this? the timing advance done with the consult II only advances timing at less than WOT...it DOES NOT effect the WOT maps on the ecu which can only be changed by an aftermarket ecu (not available for 5 gens...only for 5.5 gens)...or emanage ultimate/smt-6/7 etc. your car will only be faster than it previously was at less than WOT...it will be the same at WOT...which is still faster than less than WOT...
08-06-2006, 04:25 PM
#12
The timing advance "mod" does nothing past 2300 RPM. Only the base timing is affected, not throughout the powerband. If you want to advance your timing throughout you need to get a TS ECU upgrade, get bigger injectors/raise fuel pressure and remove fuel via MAF conditioning, or get an E-manage Ultimate or SMT.
I'm not surprised you didn't feel a difference.
I'm not surprised you didn't feel a difference.
08-06-2006, 04:39 PM
#13
I'll agree and disagree:
The purpose of the timing advance, PARTICULARLY on the 3.0, is to increase throttle response and idle smoothness. It does NOT give "more power" at any kind of rpm, per se. Particularly not at WOT. The throttle response is especially useful to ME for autocross, but not so much for hard street driving necessarily. But in autocross you're on and off the throttle constantly, so response is a necessary thing!
We did my car and soonerfan's 3.5 at the same time, and the increased throttle response was OBVIOUS on my car, but only slightly noticeable on his.
Timing advance = VQ30DEK mod....not very useful for VQ35 really.
The purpose of the timing advance, PARTICULARLY on the 3.0, is to increase throttle response and idle smoothness. It does NOT give "more power" at any kind of rpm, per se. Particularly not at WOT. The throttle response is especially useful to ME for autocross, but not so much for hard street driving necessarily. But in autocross you're on and off the throttle constantly, so response is a necessary thing!
We did my car and soonerfan's 3.5 at the same time, and the increased throttle response was OBVIOUS on my car, but only slightly noticeable on his.
Timing advance = VQ30DEK mod....not very useful for VQ35 really.
08-06-2006, 05:29 PM
#14
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the same has been shown for the TS ecu upgrade for the 3.5's...the gains are found from the tweaked AFR curves and not the timing...cause those with regular piggybacks who alter their A/F curves and setting them near or the same as those found from TS are getting the same gains...the 3.5's just don't benefit much if at all from timing advance...whereas the 3.0's are typically the other way around...we benefit minimally from a good air/fuel tune whereas timing advance is where the real power is for us...which is why the 5th gen 3.0's until now haven't been able to put down stellar #'s as until recently no means of advancing the WOT maps IG timing has been possible...
08-06-2006, 05:36 PM
#15
Originally Posted by irish44j
I'll agree and disagree:
The purpose of the timing advance, PARTICULARLY on the 3.0, is to increase throttle response and idle smoothness. It does NOT give "more power" at any kind of rpm, per se. Particularly not at WOT. The throttle response is especially useful to ME for autocross, but not so much for hard street driving necessarily. But in autocross you're on and off the throttle constantly, so response is a necessary thing!
We did my car and soonerfan's 3.5 at the same time, and the increased throttle response was OBVIOUS on my car, but only slightly noticeable on his.
Timing advance = VQ30DEK mod....not very useful for VQ35 really.
The purpose of the timing advance, PARTICULARLY on the 3.0, is to increase throttle response and idle smoothness. It does NOT give "more power" at any kind of rpm, per se. Particularly not at WOT. The throttle response is especially useful to ME for autocross, but not so much for hard street driving necessarily. But in autocross you're on and off the throttle constantly, so response is a necessary thing!
We did my car and soonerfan's 3.5 at the same time, and the increased throttle response was OBVIOUS on my car, but only slightly noticeable on his.
Timing advance = VQ30DEK mod....not very useful for VQ35 really.
08-06-2006, 05:50 PM
#16
Originally Posted by nismology
What exactly are you disagreeing with? Only the base timing is advanced which means the changes only take place from idle to ~2300 RPM. After that either the feedback system takes over (closed loop) or the preset map based on injector pulse width and MAF voltage (open loop) takes over.
The agreement part was directed to you.
08-06-2006, 05:57 PM
#17
Originally Posted by irish44j
I was disagreeing with those who are talking about "power gains" at WOT. Note that I didn't quote you....so don't assume that I'm disagreeing with you just because I posted after you.
The agreement part was directed to you.
The agreement part was directed to you.
08-06-2006, 06:24 PM
#20
Originally Posted by Gapp
I had my timing advanced at Maxus, and I put a consult II on it a week later and it showed back to 15. WTF?
BTW: Not intending to hi jack, just didn't want to start a new one!
BTW: Not intending to hi jack, just didn't want to start a new one!
08-06-2006, 08:25 PM
#21
What i was hoping for was just a little extra kick when i step on the gas..especially in the lower part of the power band. Addin the intake made the car feel slower at lower rpms..but def felt nice gain uptop.
I doubt i would go as for as a piggy back...
I have read testimonials from people w/ 3.5's stating they felt a difference (after raising ign timing). For the record..i did not!
chas
I doubt i would go as for as a piggy back...
I have read testimonials from people w/ 3.5's stating they felt a difference (after raising ign timing). For the record..i did not!
chas
08-06-2006, 08:29 PM
#22
Originally Posted by NYPD-Arnold
Disconnect the Consult II after doing the timing. Turn off the car. Then reconnect and turn on the car.
Originally Posted by acidbbg
Then we did the idle air vol learn. The wierd thing it wouldn't take. We tried 3 times. I finally said..lets try turning the car off and than restarting everything. Well it did the trick. I got a print out of the changes.
08-07-2006, 11:42 AM
#24
08-08-2006, 08:53 AM
#27
True..Throttle by sensor=Lag off the line
But by lightening that rotational mass should give better off the line acceleration. Similar to how a lightned flywheel helps off the line acceleration. and helps car to rev faster.
Chas
But by lightening that rotational mass should give better off the line acceleration. Similar to how a lightned flywheel helps off the line acceleration. and helps car to rev faster.
Chas
08-08-2006, 09:00 AM
#28
I just isntalled one (UDP) yesterday and it didn't make any difference that I could feel vs what can be done electronically (i.e piggyback and all the right ingredients)
At least I didn't feel any w/ UDP alone.
True the theory is definately there...This will head
(UDP) and has been 
At least I didn't feel any w/ UDP alone.
True the theory is definately there...This will head
(UDP) and has been
08-08-2006, 09:38 AM
#29
Originally Posted by acidbbg
But by lightening that rotational mass should give better off the line acceleration. Similar to how a lightned flywheel helps off the line acceleration. and helps car to rev faster.
Chas
Chas
Originally Posted by nismology
Comparing a lightened flywheel to an UDP isn't really valid. If you understand basic physics you understand that the inertia of a rotating body is directly proportional to its diameter and mass. The flywheel has a fairly large diameter and is pretty heavy, while the UDP is much smaller and lighter relative to the stock flywheel. The effect of lightening either component can't be compared. Lightened flywheel >>>>>>> UDP. Sure the motor will rev quicker in neutral with the UDP, but once in gear the car won't be any faster. Think about all the things the motor has to accelerate (rotors, wheels, axles, transmission, flywheel) and you'll see that the tiny loss of rotational inertia afforded by the UDP is negligible once the car is in gear.
My $.10
My $.10
08-08-2006, 09:51 AM
#30
Originally Posted by NmexMAX
I just isntalled one (UDP) yesterday and it didn't make any difference that I could feel vs what can be done electronically (i.e piggyback and all the right ingredients)
At least I didn't feel any w/ UDP alone.
True the theory is definately there...This will head(UDP) and has been
At least I didn't feel any w/ UDP alone.
True the theory is definately there...This will head
(UDP) and has been 
08-08-2006, 04:22 PM
#31
Originally Posted by acidbbg
i guess a piggy back is really the only way to extract hp
Ever hear of headers...? True a piggy back of some sort can help, but.. Headers are the single most mod that will add the most HP by themselves.(period)
08-08-2006, 04:53 PM
#32
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well some people are more sensitive to increases in power than others...and others exxagerate it in their heads for something that is not there...me...I feel nothing--immune I guess, so I have officially retired my butt dyno...I don't even notice a difference since I fixed my VI...which is supposed to be worth 30 crank hp in the top end...and when I installed my cattman gen 2 headers and udp at the same time...didn't feel any difference nore did the stillen popcharger/flywheel or timing advance or catback...well you get the point...
this this was the same case on my 4th gen...didn't feel the difference with any of my mods except for mevi and TS ecu (the ecu being the biggest one)
this this was the same case on my 4th gen...didn't feel the difference with any of my mods except for mevi and TS ecu (the ecu being the biggest one)
...
08-09-2006, 05:53 AM
#34
The timing advance, VQ30 or 35 ONLY advances the timing on the BASE map (0-~2200rpm) after which it reverts to one of the pre-programmed maps. The reason you can feel it on the VQ30 and not the 35 is that the VQ30 doesnt have VTC's and consequently runs more timing retard on it's base map than the 35.
For the VQ35 guys, if you add headers and all the bolt on goodies then tune properly; there are basically ZERO cars that will have faster throttles. Not an E46 M3, not an E39M5, NOTHING. Dont waste your time doing this mod.
This is the LAST thread on this subject Im going to allow. and unless one of you makes a miraculous discovery, this topic has been more than covered.
For the VQ35 guys, if you add headers and all the bolt on goodies then tune properly; there are basically ZERO cars that will have faster throttles. Not an E46 M3, not an E39M5, NOTHING. Dont waste your time doing this mod.
This is the LAST thread on this subject Im going to allow. and unless one of you makes a miraculous discovery, this topic has been more than covered.
08-09-2006, 05:57 AM
#35
Originally Posted by E55AMG2
The timing advance, VQ30 or 35 ONLY advances the timing on the BASE map (0-~2200rpm) after which it reverts to one of the pre-programmed maps. The reason you can feel it on the VQ30 and not the 35 is that the VQ30 doesnt have VTC's and consequently runs more timing retard on it's base map than the 35.
For the VQ35 guys, if you add headers and all the bolt on goodies then tune properly; there are basically ZERO cars that will have faster throttles. Not an E46 M3, not an E39M5, NOTHING. Dont waste your time doing this mod.
This is the LAST thread on this subject Im going to allow. and unless one of you makes a miraculous discovery, this topic has been more than covered.
For the VQ35 guys, if you add headers and all the bolt on goodies then tune properly; there are basically ZERO cars that will have faster throttles. Not an E46 M3, not an E39M5, NOTHING. Dont waste your time doing this mod.
This is the LAST thread on this subject Im going to allow. and unless one of you makes a miraculous discovery, this topic has been more than covered.
You know I used to say that ALL THE TIME. But no one listened. Maybe they will listen to you.
08-09-2006, 08:03 AM
#37
Originally Posted by E55AMG2
I've been saying it for about 4 years now....
So they don't listen to either of us. Thank god 4th gen ecu's cant do this. It would be even worse there
08-09-2006, 08:06 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Kevlo911
So they don't listen to either of us. Thank god 4th gen ecu's cant do this. It would be even worse there
08-09-2006, 10:22 AM
#40
Originally Posted by Hardcore
[hijack] How long ago did you order you Frankencar intake? I hear they are no longer in business. They don't reply to emails. 
[/hijack]
[/hijack]actually purchased it off a member on this board.