jnm2kse

As you may or may not know there was(is) a huge discussion of this issue over on the Edmunds forums. One gentleman over there seems to have put an awful lot of time and effort in diagnosing the perceived problem(I say perceived as I have never ever driven a 5spd 2K Max)and tried unsuccessfully to convince Nissan to listen to his results.

Now this guy is no dummy and extremley knowledgeable when it come to the Max...

This is his comments in a nutshell and I apologize for it being a little long.....this is a follow up post from his original diagnoses...



"Its late and I'll be out of town until Sunday,
but let me try to explain the most important point
that will help you to understand things better.

(I think I'll post here for the benefit of
others.)

The "fuel-cut" at closed-throttle is not THE
problem. I think we are all in agreement on that.
What is important to note is that it is a SYMPTOM
of the REAL problem.

The REAL problem is that an unloaded 2000 Maxima
Engine will not willingly slow down as the gas
pedal is released. As the driver eases off the gas
pedal, the engine continues to produce more power
than desired, and the engine never slows
appreciably until the "closed throttle" position is
reached on the TPS. (Remember, at
closed-throttle, the fuel-cut event occurs.)

Digging a little deeper... The reason that the
engine will not slow down is because it continues
to receive AIR (and fuel) even when the butterfly
valve is nearly closed. At the very instant when
the butterfly valve is on the verge of reaching a
"closed" position, the engine is producing a lot of
power with air that is being acquired from the
idle control valve.

Therefore, the REAL REAL REAL problem is that the
idle control valve allows too much auxillary air
into the engine, independent of the butterfly
valve.

The net result is that the car cannot be slowed by
easing off of the gas pedal. Instead, it
continues to produce power right up to the very
instant when the closed-throttle "fuel-cut" event
occurs, at which point the car will suddenly
compression brake without a smooth transition from
"power" to "fuel-cut"."

I'm not trying to spread fear into 5 spd owners or start some crazy rumors...in fact I'm very interested in maybe getting a 5 spd Max if my current automatic one continues to act like all goofy....


I'd just like to hear from actual 5 speeders on their comments and experiences...

Max_Gator

The 5speed jerks in first. My friend's cobra jerks in first. Everyone I know who has a stick knows that first is a low gear and if you try to drive in first and let off the gas . . . . it jerks. I have a 2k SE 5spd. It is my first 5spd but I'm not a bad driver. It jerks in first just like other cars with over 200 horsepower jerk in first. I've discussed this with other 5 spd drivers and they tell me that manual transmission cars jerk in first. I discussed this issue with the guy who wrote that thread. He told me that it was not possible to lower rpms gradually from 3000 to 1000. Said it wasn't possible. Maybe that's the case with his but mine works fine. I was able to gradually lower rpms from 3000 to 1000 in neutral. I will admit that the nissan throttle is sensitive. Maybe there is a problem but . . . If there is a problem, I have learned to drive around it.

I would buy the 5spd over the auto the next 100 out of 100 times. There simply is no comparison between the cars if you care at all about performance. 5spd wins hands down over auto even assuming the problem he claims exists in fact exists.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

The "guy" in question is a mechanical engineer. And no . . . I'm not the guy.

I have a 2K Maxima SE 5-speed and I have the condition outlined in jnm2kse's post. I've learned to drive around it, but the condition definitely exists.

MOBOY

I have a 5 speed... and I thought it was hard to drive at first....and I even took the car back to the dealer and told him that I was having lurching problems. After owning the car for a month a 3000 miles later I have discovered what the problem is in my opinion. The car produces so much power even at 1000 rpm's..... Most cars do not haev much power at all at this engine speed....but the max does. Also....I have had 7-8 standards in myt short life and never had a car that when let off the gas lurch while in 5 gear. On the highway your foot needs to stay on the pedal at all times or the car will feel jerky when getting back on the throttel. This is very annoying because it is normal for drivers to be able to let off the gas when following a slower driver. At three thousand rpm's on the highway the car should slow down with comp braking...but the max does not. I have noticed that the car will keep a constant speed even going down a hill when the foot is off the gas. It kind of feels like grade logic. Most cars would rev the hell out of a gear on a steep hill but the max does not.

What I have done to get rid of the annoying trait is keep my foot on the gas...even if slightly (just barely pressed down) and when I go to stop I put the car in nuetral. There is almost no way to avoid the problem in the city though! The car was not meant to be driven 35-40 miles an hour....good thing I don't live in the city or I would be pissed.

Sly

What does being a mechanical engineer have to do with it? I think by mentioning that he's just trying to gain some credibility for his "opinion". I'm a mechanical engineer too but I think the problem is more between the steering wheel and the drivers seat. I've learned to avoid the supposed "problem". After a year and 27000 miles, I've learned to be pretty smooth with the throttle in low speed traffic, and pressing the clutch before it ever lurches helps too. Just my two bits.

Stranger808

Could it be the clutchsprings adjusting to acomadate the change in rpm.????????????
I too just drive smothly in the city (I drive in Dallas all day ad work off 635 for those who know it) I only jerk when I am not payig attintion.

MI2KSE

I don't think there is a problem.

I have driven other 5-speed transmissions, and the Maxima's seems smoother than any of the others.

There is always some difficulty driving a manual smoothly in 1st @ low rpm, as well as shifting into 2nd. IMHO the Maxima's transmission is excellent. (My previous car was an M3, which was much more difficult to drive in 1st & 2nd.)

I have never been able to replicate the infamous Edmund's "fuel cut" issue in my Max - so whether it actually effects some cars or not, I have no idea.

Dany

iTrader: (1)

I had 95 Max SE 5-speed and now 2000 SE 5-speed. They both drive the same, only 2000 SE is smoother.

So I don't know what that fuel cut thing is. I have been in number of traffic jams and didn't experience any problems driving in first second or any gears.

Enjoy the Ride.

TimW

iTrader: (6)

but for others there is. Obviously you dont drive at a speed on certain terrain that affects you, but it does exist in all 2K max's... period.

Once you have felt it and must deal with it every day, its pretty annoying. Of the thousands of miles of roads I have been on, only two small sections of road make this a problem for me. it always occurs on these sections of road (gently rolling residential 35mph hills). Autofuel cutoff will jerk your car. period.. And mine is an auto.

Some guys have lined up several 2k's and driven them on roads that make this drivibility issue come up. Some cars really dont do it that bad. Obviously the TPS sensor adjustment seems to make some difference. re-adjustment has helped alot for some. However, others who must drive these kinds of roads alot are left with a real problem.

Dont flatly assume there is *no* problem (or maybe you should be working for nissan service). I'm happy that you and I dont really need to worry about it and it doesnt affect us. I am able to happily drive around these ranges. But I feel for the guys who have this problem. That attitude that they should pick a different street or learn how to drive has really frustrated them and thats the main reason they havent shared the info here. thats just sad that they get flamed by people that dont even have the problem - and continue to argue that it doesnt exist. just be happy it doesnt bother you and leave it at that.


ps.Dany, I wrote this before your response, its not aimed at you.









[Edited by TimW on 10-17-2000 at 10:30 AM]

MI2KSE

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TimW
[I]but for others there is. Obviously you dont drive at a speed on certain terrain that affects you, but it does exist in all 2K max's... period.

Sorry - I was not trying to offend...

The only y2k Maxima I have driven is my own, which has the 5-speed manual. I drive home every day over rolling hills, and have not experienced the problem.

I am certainly not trying to imply the problem is not real. I have read (virtually) every posting on the Edmund’s site, and there may be a problem (although one unacknowledged by Nissan) that effect the early build period, but not the later cars. Mine was built in April 2000, which according to the Edmund’s postings is after the problem was mysteriously fixed...

TimW

iTrader: (6)

you didnt offend me.. but I've felt it in my car... and I know of the intense frustration of the people trying to get this resolved. I'm not participaing in their attempt for a resolution (ECU reprogram). Again, its not really a problem for me, I can live with it. They have even tried abitration and lemon law, and lost. (car is to spec as the engineers designed it, not defective so you cant use laws or courts).

No, there's nothing wrong with saying my car doesnt do it, thats useful in gauging the size of the problem. But in this case, its been a real uphill battle for them.

I wasnt really aiming all that at you either. I read all that on Edmunds too and didnt want that "these guys are morons, its all in their minds, the car doesnt do it" to start here.

I wish I could help them more, but again its not really an issue for me. I try to choose my battles wisely.

tb420

but I think the problem is more between the steering wheel and the drivers seat.
[/I][/QUOTE]

i agree with your diagnosis.

i'm not really even sure what 'this guy' is complaining about - The max doesn't seem to do a great job at engine braking, if that's what he's saying (?). BUT, nissan seems to have put an advanced sytem into the max to compensate, it's called 'the brakes'. try putting the car in neutral and using the brakes when you need to. If that's not he issue than I say if you can't be bothered with easing on & off the clutch, manipulating the shifter, & moderating pressure on the accelerator all the time, maybe you should get an automatic. haha

00 black max

If the jerk in firsgt gear is the problem then ill ive with it. Not big enough of a problem for me to care.

Shingles

Regarding this jerking in first gear... I don't own a 5th gen 5 speed maxima. But I do have a 91 CRX with a B16 swap with an ACT pressure plate and ACT clutch disc. You want to talk about jerking in first, step into my car. I have never percieved this to be a problem with the car. The "symptoms" are the same as in (apparantly) the 5th gens. Once TPS sense throttle position at 0% open, it just cuts back fuel and causes immediate compression breaking. But any amount of throttle the car will jerk again b/c it's getting fuel and getting power. I think the "problem" is in the adjustment of the TPS and the programming in the ECU. In an effort of trying to make the throttle response better, I suspect that nissan is not cutting back more fuel then they could at very low throttle openings. Sure cutting back more may make for a better slow down in 1st gear at low speeds. But over all, it would cut back throttle response as well. So there has to be a compromise... I don't think that there is a mechnical problem or a design flaw... it's just the way it is.

-Shing

My 4DSC

I did have this same problem you speak of a long time ago..
back when I first learn how to drive stick... I guess the problem stems from inexperience (driver error).

I've owned approximately 15 standard transmission cars and my Maxima doesnt jerk anymore than any of the others...
actually it does it quite less....its very smooth...

First of all, How often are you guys driving around in first gear?? Me? NEVER. If i'm gonna cruise a parking lot slowly its gonna be in 2nd gear...
I think you'll agree that the Maxima has plenty of low end torque (its no honda civic cx)....

The ONLY time I let off the throttle in 1st gear IS WHEN I'M SHIFTING TO SECOND GEAR.

If I was to drive around in first gear you can be damn sure that as soon as i let off the gas...my foot will ALREADY be on the clutch.

My theory:
Learn how to drive a stick properly...

tb420

i generally don't drive in 1st gear. it's just there to get me into 2nd gear from a standstill. after 1st, it's neutral if coasting and/or braking, or 2nd if accelerating.

jnm2kse

in the title of this question...I guess it is not so much of a problem as driving in first as it is pretty much at any speed....

reread his post...I don't want to give my translation of what he is saying(as I'll screw it up )but he does seem to be talking a heck of a lot more than just first gear...


My bad...I'm sorry for any confusion I've caused (or bad vibes)

davedzny

Hello. I am an active member in the edmunds 5 speed Maxima Problems Board, and I have plenty of information to share. First off, for those who believe that the problem is with the driver, skip what I have to say. For those who want to learn about the problem on the 5th gen, read on. Note that this is an extremely long and detailed post.

Let me begin by saying that I have been driving manual transmissions for over ten years, and have owned five manual transmission cars. I was a valet parker as a teenager, and drove every type of car imaginable. I also have a degree in Automotive Engineering and was an ASE certified tech for a few years before switching into the computer field.

The whole "fuel cut" problem in the Max is due to the idle air control valve. A better description of the problem is an "uncontrollable throttle". Note that these findings were discovered by an Edmunds.com member named Bigk200. A copy of his findings was inserted in a previous post on this thread. I have added my own readings that I have seen on the Nissan Consultant Scan Tool, and my own explanations.

My car has been to Nissan four times to try to fix this problem. My TPS was adjusted three times, and my computer was reprogrammed with a Canadian TSB that is supposed to fix cold driveability problems, which of course I never had. The Nissan district rep has seen my car twice. Nissan is now at the point where they refuse to try to fix my car anymore. As a matter of fact, Nissan is so arrogant that when Bigk200 offered to share his findings with Nissan for free they refused!!!

I saw many readings on the Consultant when the district rep was here with me. I test drove it in 1st with him, since the fuel cut is felt the most in 1st gear due to gear ratio in 1st. Basically, when the gas pedal reaches at the very end of its travel (.002-.006" TPS open), the closed throttle switch comes on and cuts fuel to the injectors. The instant you try to get on the gas again, the closed throttle switch goes off and fuel is injected again. This cycle between fuel cut/fuel injection causes the bucking(that can be felt the strongest in 1st gear).

Now a comment to those who think that the problem is due to people who can't drive stick. Here's a question for all of you. When stuck in bumper to bumper traffic that is creeping at about 10 MPH and stops constantly, you have two driving methods available. You can shift to 1st from a stop, immediately shift to 2nd, use your brakes to slow, come to a stop, shift back to 1st and shift to 2nd and start over again. The way I drive in traffic is to shift to 1st from a stop, creep along in 1st modulating my speed with the throttle based on traffic flow, and hit in the clutch only at the instant I have to come to a complete stop. Those who prefer the first way of driving, more power to you. It is unfortunate that you are basically using your brakes more and shifting/clutching twice as much.

I live in NYC, and my commute is always bumper to bumper traffic, usually creeping along at about 8 MPH with constant stopping. Unfortunately traffic driving is where the fuel cut is felt the strongest by me. The effect can be so strong that my whole car bucks and shakes violently back and forth. My ignition keys even shake violently from the ignition cylinder. The reason the bucking is also felt so much in traffic is do to the constant transition of the closed throttle switch going from on to off which is causing the fuel to be cut and injected constantly. Sure every standard transmission will have some bucking effect in 1st, but I have never felt any car do it this severe.

A little lesson on electronic engine controls. The whole reason we use fuel injection and computers on cars? One word: Emissions. Without the EPA or emission laws, we would still be running carburetors and dumping a ton of fuel in them like the good old musclecars. The computer is designed to keep the air/fuel ratio as close to the "theoretic perfect" 14.7:1 ratio. This is done by various sensors and actuators. Sensors such as TPS, MAF, O2 send data to the computer which in turn interpets the data and controls the various actuators such as IAC, Injectors, EGR, to try to keep that air/fuel ratio at 14.7:1. Of course, the ratio can be richened for cold engines, accelerating, etc. and leaned for deceleration and such. We also have closed loop/open loop and "limp home" modes that I won't go into here. We'll discuss the IAC and TPS, since these are the culprits regarding the Maxima.

Here's a quick test to try on a 5th gen Max. Get up to about 45 MPH in 4th with the RPM's about 2000 or so. Release your foot completely off the gas and see how long it takes for the RPM's to start to decrease. The Max will take about 5 seconds or so. This isn't normal or correct! The RPM's should decrease immediately when you let go of the gas pedal, unless some external factor is "taking control". That factor is the IAC valve and TPS, but mostly the IAC. The Max's computer is programmed to dump a ton of air into the engine via the idle air circuit. I have seen this from readings on the Consultant. At idle, the IAC reading was about 15 or so counts. The instant the throttle was moved off idle and the closed throtlle switch went to off, the IAC counts jumped to around 80 or so. All of that excessive air is what causes the throttle to be so sensitive and hard to control.

As you start to try to release the gas pedal, the engine is still receiving a ton of air through the opening of the IAC. It does not decrease as you release the throttle. When you finally almost run out of pedal travel, and the closed throttle switch goes on, the IAC shoots all the way back to 15 or so counts and the injectors stop injecting fuel. This causes the abrupt "fuel cut". The moment you give the slightest amount of gas, the closed throttle switch goes off and fuel is again injected again along with a ton of air from the IAC. If you are between these two conditions of the closed throttle switch on/off, you will receive bucking and a type of hesitation feeling, depending on your speed.

I tested my parent's 2000 Altima automatic, and the RPM's dropped immediately as I let go of the gas @ 45 MPH. Note that the transmission was in top gear when I released the gas pedal, as an automatic transmission will upshift automatically when the gas pedal is released unless of course you are already in top gear. This way I made sure that the transmission could not affect the test.

Now I love to smoke my tires and punch this car every chance I get, but I also want this car to be able to slow down when I release the gas and not be so sensitive in regards to the gas pedal. It is unsafe to have a car that you cannot control with the accelerator pedal and does not slow down when you release the gas pedal.

There is also another related problem. RPM's rise and/or hang on shifts. On the Max, when you shift from 1st to 2nd at about 2500 RPM, the RPM's tend to hang up at 2500 during the shift even though the clutch is pressed and the gas is released. Once again this is due to the computer and its control of the IAC. On any car, when you press in the clutch you physically disconnect the engine from the transmission and drivetrain effectively unloading the engine. That is why the RPM's will decrease on any car when the clutch is pressed and the gas is released. Also on the Max, if you execute a fairly quick upshift from say 2nd to 3rd, the RPM's will actually rise when the clutch is pressed with the gas released! Once again, the computer and IAC. The Nissan rep claimed that this is all normal to help emissions and create a "smoother ride and shift". Bull. It is the faulty computer programming.

I am still fighting with Nissan over this car. For those who are not bothered by this problem, more power to you. I am glad you are happy with your car. I love the Max, but it is so frustrating to have a car with such a serious defect that really rips the enjoyment of driving. Everday in traffic, I am ready to leave the car on the road and walk cause the fuel cut can get so bad. The sad part is that Nissan has received hundreds of complaints regarding this, it was mentioned in Motor Trend, and they still refuse to try to fix it.

Dave Z

TimW

iTrader: (6)

I go into a long post about having alittle respect for people who have this problem and to just ignore the whole thing if you car doesnt do it, or it doesnt affect you, yet here we go on the 'driver error' again.

That aside, I'm glad you decided to post here and I hope you get some satifaction on this issue soon. Sorry you have to endure the 'freelance nissan techs' here.

jnm2kse

I know your feeling(on a lesser degree) on being dissatisfied with Nissans so called Customer Service....


I havent ridden in a 5spd or driven one but I can visualize what you are explaining....I previously owned a 5spd Celica GTS that would at times buck in first but when I let off the gas doing 45 the rpms would drop instantly and the engine would provide some sort of braking(I'm not too technical but I hope I make sense)

Its a damn shame as I would really like to have boughten a 5spd


I don't dispute what the other drivers have said....I think you will be more aware of any problem(if you consider it a problem) if you have driven other manuals in the past. just based on your detailed post I would not even consider a 5spd Max but I guess I would have to drive one myself before reaching such a conclusion....


Folks this is the same company who makes you jump backwards thru hoops and beg for a new TCM if your auto tranny exhibited slippage.....I'm serious......their customer relations are pretty weak...

My 4DSC

and decided to go out for a drive in my 2k 5speed to see if what you say is true...

I took the car out for a 15 min drive first to make sure it was completely warmed up before executing any testing....

*** As for your first test:
"Get up to about 45 MPH in 4th with the RPM's about 2000 or so. Release your foot completely off the gas and see how long it takes for the RPM's to start to decrease. The Max will take about 5 seconds or so. This isn't normal or correct! The RPM's should decrease immediately when you let go of the gas pedal, unless some external factor is "taking control"."

I did exactly as you said....making sure that i was on LEVEL GROUND...

My results: Upon closing the throttle, the RPM's decreased IMMEDIATELY!! It did NOT take 5 seconds as you claim...


*** As for your second test:
"RPM's rise and/or hang on shifts. On the Max when you shift from 1st to 2nd at about 2500 RPM, the RPM's tend to hang up at 2500 during the shift even though the clutch is pressed and the gas is released."

I did exactly as you said...again making sure that i was on LEVEL GROUND...

My results: You are 100% correct! Exactly what you said would happen...did. ACTUALLY....I tested it during ANY gear change, AT ANY RPM, under VARYING throttle positions...and IT DID THE EXACT SAME THING. It did hang up every time...ACTUALLY...sometimes when I would shift, the RPM's would actually RAISE slightly even w/ my foot off the gas and the clutch pushed in.


Heres my opinion:
I beleive that what Nissan has told you makes complete sense. I have a feeling that this is exactly how they engineered the car to shift for a SMOOTHER transition between gears (read: LESS "BUCKING")...
I'm sure lots on research was put into creating a "better" transmission for the 2k Maxima's because there were complaints about the previous 4th generations w/ regards to their transmissions.
** I could not duplicate ANY bucking at all on my Maxima under any conditions (especially 1st gear)...and ALSO completely disagree w/ you about the "RPM's not decreasing immediately"...

So, I still must stick w/ my previous conviction....
DRIVER ERROR!!

That's my $.02....LIKE IT OR NOT.

PS: As I've said...I've owned at least 15 manual transmission cars...and a couple have had this similar "Problem" as you refer to it... The most noticeable was my 1995 Ford Contour SE (V6)...in which the RPM's hung up after every shift...and i can tell you it was 100 TIMES more noticeable than in the Maxima. It doesnt annoy me in the least bit....but i guess it really bothers you...SO...
I WISH YOU LUCK on your quest to convince Nissan to do something about this!

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Looks like we've agreed to disagree. So be it.

I, for one, intend to join davedzny, bigk200, and others in pursuing this with my Zone Rep until I'm convinced that Nissan has done everything they can do to reconcile the issue. If my Zone Rep concludes that there's nothing wrong with my vehicle, I can live with that. Frankly, I consider the fuel-cut condition more of an annoyance than a serious problem. But if Nissan ends up issuing a TSB over it, there are going to be a few people around here with egg on their faces.

Time will tell.

TimW

iTrader: (6)

you argue "driver error" THEN go drive the car to see if it does it. Whatever... just be happy yours doesnt do it. We've already established some are so slight that no drivibility issues exist..

As I remember, there is a standing invite for anyone in the KC area that would like to talk to Kevin about this and he'll gladly show you.

davedzny

Hello all. Thanks for making it through my long winded post without falling asleep! Anyway, glad you all decided to try some tests out and give me feedback. I see that my4dsc was able to get his rpm's to decrease upon letting off the gas pedal. That is very interesting to me. As for the rpm's rise and hanging during upshifts, that doesn't really bother me driveability wise, but further down the road I wonder how much undo stress this is putting on the clutch and drivetrain components since this is equal to executing a "power shift" while drag racing(a power shift is shifting while keeping the gas pedal pressed down.)

I believe that the rpm's hanging on shifting is another effect of the problem on this car, though. You will notice that when the car is cold the rpm's do not hang or rise during shifts. It only happens when the car is warmed up, the computer is in closed loop and actively controlling all of the actuators therefore leading back to the problem residing in the computers programming.

I have another test from edmunds.com poster bigk200 that you can try. With a warmed up engine in neutral and all loads turned off (i.e. headlights and a/c off), rev the car to 3000 RPM. Try to decrease the rpm's from 3000 to idle ever so slowly. At some point, the IAC motor will take over and drop the rpm's with constant pressure still being applied on the gas pedal by you. On my car and a few others who complain about the bucking, their car will drop when the rpm's reach 2500 and go all the way down to idle with constant pressure. Most all other cars will drop @ 2500 rpm as well, but they will stop at 1500 rpm and sometimes cycle between 1500-1700 rpm by themself.

I have tried the neutral test on 6 other 5th gen 5 speeds, and they all fell to 1500 rpm whereas my car falls to idle. This might be the reason of my problem being more severe. However, on a couple of those cars that I road tested as well they would also not have the rpm's drop instantly when releasing the gas pedal while in gear. They hung for about 5 seconds or so before slowing down.

I'll end by saying that I am really frustrated with Nissan more then anyone else for the way they have been handling this situation. I only wish my Max would behave as well as others, but I just wanted to pass out some information and theories relating this "uncontrollable throttle" problem to other Max owners. I am in no way discouraging people from buying a Max. I still think it is a great car for the money. I am pretty sure every car nowadays is programmed to cut fuel when decelerating and coasting, but I am extremely disappointed in the way Nissan implements this.

Note also that this is the first year that Nissan are using computers that can be "flashed" or reprogrammed in their car. Many other manufacturers have been doing this for years, and release updated programming for the computer upon discovering problems. I think Nissan is a little wet behind the ears on dealing with computer related driveability problems like ours.

Dave Z

sprung

My 5spd has no drivability issues, i'd like to drive one of the ones that people are crying about to see if it's for real or they are just overreacting and looking for something to yell about.

As for "flashing" the ECU, I'm gonna be really pissed at you all if you get Nissan to do this and they reduce the power as a result. Given a choice, I'd turn down an ECU reprogram but I'm afraid the dealer may just go ahead and do it anytime they have the car.

Ask Paul2kGXE what effect the TCM reprogram had on his dyno plot!! His car hit some sort of electronice rev restriction that would not let him dyno all of 3rd gear (auto remember), it stopped him well over 1,000rpm's shy of redline. I was there and couldn't believe what they had done!! I saw him dyno the first time, right after he got the car, before any update and nothing like this happened in 3 pulls!!

Paul6speed

Sprung... I look forward to dyno testing again (in a week or two). I wonder if that was a fluke or the new TCM. I wish I was behind the wheel during those runs, like our first time out. It was probably the new TCM. My ECU was not modified at all. It doesn't make a lot of sense. My run in 2nd gear went all the way to redline. My 3rd gear run seems to have run into a speed limiter, which didn't happen in our prior set of dyno tests. More dyno testing will give the answer. (I haven't had the chance to test this in the real world, since I would be going at least 110 MPH.)


[Edited by Paul2kGXE on 10-18-2000 at 09:35 AM]

MI2KSE

I tried this when I first read about it in the Edmund's bbs. My Maxima permits me to ease off the accelerator smoothly, as the rpms drop to ~1,200, the fuel cuts out and the tach drop to 0.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my car is a more recent build, which seems to be relevant to the Edmund's posting.

I suspect some owners are having real problems with their vehicles, and I would expect Nissan to make every attempt to satisfy them.

However, some of what is being described may a deliberate design element in the Maximas. There is a somewhat related thread in this bbs (https://maxima.org/forums/showthread.phtml?threadid=4752) about the Maxima transmission and clutch. It appears to me that the 5-speed Maxima was designed to be a fairly luxurious daily driver, not a performance vehicle that shifts roughly and stalls when backing out of parking spaces.

If you are interested in the 5-speed Maxima, I would encourage you to test drive one – I have been very happy with mine. If you want to learn more about the issues raised by Dave Z, I would encourage everyone to check out the Edmund’s site – there are close to 1,000 informative postings on this topic, without an inordinate number of ignorant comments or flames.

Just my $.02...

TimW

iTrader: (6)

then there is also months of arbitration and lemon law work. I think the extraordinary efforts of these people should at least give you pause. Also, keep in mind that Nissan supposedly flew in a engineer to look at this. Try getting that for just whining at your nissan dealer, wont happen.

They havent been here whining and they were reluctant to really let anyone know what was going on at edmunds.

really, unless you've felt it (and I have) just cut them some slack. nissan wont touch your car just because its there.. there is no such thing as preventative warranty work with nissan.

sprung

Hey Tim, that was a poor choice of words on my part. But in all seriousness my car does what these guys are referring to and I just can't deal with reading thier posts anymore. IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL, i drive my Max every day and love it, I'm never thinking of "getting out of my car in traffic on the way to work and walking"...I mean WTF is that? The issue isn't 1/10th as bad as these folks are making it sound. I live in Washington DC which has WORSE traffic than NY, 2nd only to L.A. and I have no complaints about the drivability of the Max. If these people are that picky about an automobile they shouldn't own one, no car is gonna be perfect, NOTHING IS PERFECT. i wish some folks would just get over it, and if they are too neurotic to let it go they should sell thier Max's immediately and save themselves the agony of complaining about a perfectly good car...

Here's my advice to the few that hate their Maxima for this, go buy another car in this price range like a camry or accord, then get on Edmunds and argue about how they are underpowerd and don't handle as well as a Maxima, or buy a VW or BMW and argue about how often it needs repairs and how expensive the parts are, and give us Max owners a break from this relentless attack that our cars and the company that made them is out to get us!!

Uncontrollable throttle...HAHAHA! Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry Tim, I don't mean any disrespect to you with this post but, some of these guys really annoy me. I'm mean if the problem was half as severe as they describe, they would have noticed it on the test drive. The truth is that it isn't that bad and is being grossly exaggerated.

On last thing, I'd like to give a shout out to all the people who think their new max is unbearable to drive.

"Some people should die, that's just unconscious knowledge"
-Janes Addiction-

Paul6speed

Damn Sprung. I now wish I had bought a 5 speed now.

sprung

Hehe, you like that...I think I'm getting a little too emotional about this, I've blocked it out for 6 months now but I'm letting it get to me again. Deep Breath....

I just can't believe that guy said, he's thought of getting out of his car and walking to work, come on!

I just hope I didn't pi$$ off TimW too much, he's a good guy and deserves respect.

tb420

ok so i have no problems with my 5 speed. (not to say that it does or doesn't do it - just that i have no problem with it) however if the supposed problem is ECU / programming related, i have to wonder if there is a difference between GXE, GLE, & SE. We know that they are at least different in the ECU governed top speed.

As for bumper to bumper traffic - deal with it, find another place to live/work, or get an automatic transmission.

it's kind of funny that there's a defensive attitude regarding this subject, don't you think? we must really like our cars or something.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Hey Guys,

I own a 4th gen, so I'm not quite that familiar with this jerkinees that this discussion is about. But, my 4th gen is a 5 speed, and I have driven other powerful 5 speeds before, and this jerkiness seems to be simply due to the fact that the car is powerful, and 1st gear, because of its wickedly lo(or is it high?) ratio, makes a powerful car way too powerful, and hard to manage to boot. I don't experience the jerkiness in my 4th gen, but I do experience the extreme sensitivity I have to exercise when I'm in 1st gear. Tap the throttle and those tires are balking. I like that!

Lastly, think about this:

remember the Audi 5000?? How it seemed to be "suffering" from sudden acceleration? 60 minutes did an expose, the government had them recalled. Couple of years later, after a severely tarnished reputation, and having been almost forced into bankruptcy, Audi was redeemed because "they" realized, as we had known all along, that all the hoopla was because the brake pedal was too close to the accelerator pedal, a design that Audi did on purpose to make it easier for pros to heel and toe. Audi's mistake for assuming that every audi driver was a pro/enthusiast.

Food fore thought . . . . .

DW

98 Max SE

TimW

iTrader: (6)

I understand your position. But I have an auto and there are hills I cannot maintain a constant 38-40. Even the cruise control goes crazy trying to maintain a constant speed. Its full power then autofuel cutoff, back and forth. Again, the auto takes some of that out. its not traffic, its certain hills at a certain speed.

I have enough other things to worry about with the car, like my paint. I also realize that engineering is full of compromises, and I have to admit most everything with this car is great. The car is 99% perfect (engineering, not build quality), but if you experience that 1% everyday its very frustrating and those guys do (not me really, I just drive faster or slower).

As for the full throttle thing, I dont know. I do know that I went to inch up and my car took off about 5 feet and hit a pedestrian. I was taken totally by surprise. yeah, felt like a total idiot and luckly I didnt hurt him, I was able to hit the brakes. I never have been able to figure what happened that day. I'm not blaming it on this thing, but it might explain it.

Also, I was getting a tire plugged and the tech was asking me to roll forward up a slight incline. I couldnt do it. the car lept 2 feet anytime I got in enough throttle to move the car. it was really wierd.

Again.. I'm not fighting for this cause... I can deal with it. I also know that this stuff eats at you.. even if yours doesnt do it, you start looking for it and driving yourself crazy. bottom line, your car and you arent affected... thats that. All I was saying is they arent crazy or just whining.

My 4DSC

got lost in Manhattan yesterday...

JEEEEEEZ talk about bumper to bumper traffic!

had no problems w/ driving in 1st...

guess my car's just SPEEEEECIAL. ; )

---Adam---

TimW

iTrader: (6)

Boy? who you callin' boy? that reminds me of a joke about weaving a blanket....

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I may have mis-stated my feeling on this issue before. Just to clear it up, I sympathize with those of you having problems, and I guess they are real problems, niggling but annoying nonetheless. I just hope that this does not turn out to be a case of the problem being the biological unit attached directly to the steering wheel, that's all. ;-)

DW

rudylanda

This is my first nissan, at first I thought that this jerking was one of the flaws that nissans had. I have been driving 5sp for over 10 years... and this is not the best I have driven but damn, it needs work.

To help "live with" the jerking.. I found that driving in slow traffic, using second helps since it's torque to the wheels is not as great as driving in first.. so I will use it as much as I can to lessen the effect. I also use the clutch sooner and just coast it in neutral when ever I am about to stop or slow down considerably. I also use running shoes or other shoes with a thin sole to "FEEL" the pressure on the gas pedal so I can modulate the throtle a lot better than I could with thick sole shoes... or barefoot if you wish.... anyhow.. I hope Nissan finds a fix for this soon...
I know that this is frustrating when the dealer won't acknowledge the problem.. but I have also driven cars with worst flaws.. and the max is not perfect but it's pretty damn good.

TimW

iTrader: (6)

and waiting to buy another (cant decide which one to get) and my other is out for warranty work (what I do with 2 laptops is also something my wife wonders

nonetheless, I will cap some video for you when I get them back. dont let me forget. I think it would be very enlightening for all parties.