I know it depends on driving habits, etc. I have an 03 SE. Basically I'm wondering when I should know its time. Will I hear the brakes making that sound? Is it too late once that is happening? Recently I had a mechanic tell me its time and that he was starting to see burn marks on the thing the pads are attached to. Then another mechanic at the same shop said I still had some time.

 

All I did was take the wheel off and physically look at the pads. You dont need to take the pads off. at the side of the caliper you can see the pads thro an inspection hole/vent type of thing.

I just did my rear pads this weekend. The pads had not worn down completely but had maybe about 2-3 mm of pad left. Its easy to replace the pads but getting that piston back in was a pain. You have to turn it back in rather than push it in like most other cars.

 

Mechanics are liars. It is their job to lie to us. Don't believe them unless you're related by blood, or you're bangin' the guys' sister....and even then.

With that said, the BEST way to tell is to do what shobuddy said: visual inspection of the pads in the carrier. All you have to do is take the wheel off of ONE side, and get a flashlight in there to view the "inspection window".
Check this link:
http://www.motorvate.ca/mvp.php/300

Notice the TOP of the caliper assembly and the large HOLE in the center, revealing a view of the vented rotor vanes, and one side of the brake pad. Anything less than 1/4" of pad material near the rotor surface, will mean that you are going to need new pads in less than 5k miles, depending how you drive.

You could wait for the brake sensors to start pinging (assuming you HAVE sensors) when they get near the end.....but this is MUCH easier, and a good way to plan ahead, rather than letting your brakes go metal-on-metal. Bad ju-ju.....

good luck.
This is a simple way to save money, time, and headache.
If you can change a tire, you can do this.
....."if you can dodge a wrench"....

gr

 

I wouldn't inspect just _one_ wheel. It is possible to have a frozen caliper causing one side to wear faster than the other. Of course this sort of problem would have other symptoms as well...

 

Thanks for the info, I will look into this. I didn't realize a wheel had to be removed to do a visual inspection.
I assume these steps apply to the rear brakes as well? And is it true that the rear brakes take longer to wear down?

 

Rears, I believe, can be inspected in the same way - but I can't remember for sure. --heh, and I just had one off two nights ago to lube a squeaky shim!

Rear Pads should last about 2-3x longer than the fronts, but this is not a universal maxim.

gr

**Oh, and I agree - inspecting ONE wheel is probably NOT enough, but it will give you an IDEA of where you stand on pad wear, barring any abnormalities with your brake system.**

 

Then he'd be more entitled to f'uck you over.

 

I just read this in the manual:

Brake pad wear indicators
The disc brake pads on your vehicle have
audible wear indicators. When a brake pad
requires replacement, it will make a high
pitched scraping or screeching sound when
the vehicle is in motion whether or not the
brake pedal is depressed. Have the brakes
checked as soon as possible if the wear indicator
sound is heard.

I should have read the manual before posting. Thanks for all the input.

 

At least You DID read it!

It's not safe to assume this, quite frankly. Your car is still stock - so you're 99.9% likely. You still shouldn't wait for that to happen, you could do damage to the rotor, and then need the rotors lathed.

However - I have to say, I cannot IMAGINE any max owner being able to go thru a set of pads WITHOUT needing their rotors turned at least ONCE in that time. On these cars, it is probably best to suck it up and get the rotors turned after you have gone thru a set of pads, regardless of wear.

gr

 

If you replace the pads, you should _always_ surface the rotors. This is an industry standard practice. The reason for this is that it is possible to wear the rotors down to an unsafe thickness through normal driving. This minimum thickness is specified by the DOT. Any rotor with less than this minimum thickness is to be discarded. Any mechanic that installs a rotor under thickness is in violation of the law.

My personal opinion is, that you should forget having rotors turned and just replace them. They aren't _that_ expensive and the process of turning them on a lathe reduces their thermal mass.

Why is reducing thermal mass an issue? The physics of brakes, be they disc or drum, is to convert forward (or reward) energy into heat. When you have a brake rotor turned on a lathe, it removes material, thus reducing the rotor's ability to accept heat. This effectively reduces the brakes ability to stop a car.

Now, in reality, surfacing brake rotors is quite safe and done on a regular basis. However, if you are engaged in repeated heavy braking (as in motorsports), the reduced thermal mass will show up as brake fade. In other words, the rotors can't dissapate all the heat, thus causing the pads to heat up, which causes the calipers to heat up, which causes the brake fluid to heat up, which causes the fluid to boil, which causes the pedal to go to the floor - brake fade. Ergo, you won't see professional racers turning brake rotors, they just replace them.

For us street drivers, brake fade normally isn't an issue, however, rotor warpage is, and this again, is where reduced thermal mass is an issue. By having less thermal mass in a rotor, under heavy braking, you subject the rotor/drum to large heat load in a very short amount of time. This is where rotor warpage begins. In racing, heavy braking is followed by a cooling period, where the pads aren't on the rotor (except in pit stops). However, in street driving, quite often the pads are still clamped on the rotor. Think panic stop in rush hour traffic. The rotors heat up from braking and the vehicle remains stopped - pads clamped to the rotor, but the rotor isn't turning. So in this situation, you have an uneven thermal load on the rotors - the pads (and indirectly the calipers) are physically in contact with a portion of the rotor. This part of the rotor will cool more quickly, than the rest of the rotor, thus creating a warpage of the rotor. So, if the rotors are thinner, due to being turned on a lathe, they can't handle as much heat, and are more prone to warpage.

brake rotor turning soap box - off

As Ghostrider17 states, not only can you damage the rotor by allowing the pads to wear down to the metal backing plates, but you can subject other parts of the car to damage as well. When you get to metal on metal situation, you begin to physically remove material on the rotor and/or backing plates in the form of metal chips/shavings. Those metal shavings will go somewhere and the wheel acts as a wall. So, typically the shavings don't go to the outside of the vehicle, they go the other way - towards the center. And here is where things can get REALLY expensive. The outer CV joint boot is right behind the rotor and a dandy place to accumulate metal shavings. And those metal shavings are nice and sharp and will chew up a CV joint boot in nothing flat. And, if you get metal shavings inside the boot, then they can chew up the CV joint itself. And that is a pricey repair, on top of a rotor & pads.


So, get your eyeballs on those pads!

 

I completely agree with MrEngle.....good post!

One bit of clarification though:

So many here confuse truly WARPED rotors with a more common symptom for our cars, and that is PAD MATERIAL TRANSFER. This occurs most frequently in stop and go traffic when people have to sit on their brakes when the rotors are hot.
As it's been discussed over and again here - PAD MATERIAL TRASFER causes uneven surface deposits on the rotor face, and will give a "shimmy" or vibrating sensation in the steering wheel under braking from speed. It is also referred to as "Warping", but is not truly a correct term. This is why when I refer to this problem, I type it as "WARPING" in parenthesis.
The most common cure for this malody is TURNING or lathing the surface of the rotors to remove the deposit build-up, and hence removing a small amount of rotor material from the rotor itself.
John's definition of warped rotor is correct: Thermal overheating of the rotor due to repeated heavy braking without proper cooling of the rotor itself, will LITERALLY warp the metal. This situation is exacerbated when you remove metal mass from the rotor, as he described.

Just to clarify.....that post was excellent, but could be confusing to those who don't know, and irritating to those who do!!

end: gratuitous self-aggrandizement
gr

 

Thanks GR for adding that in. I always seem to forget that aspect of "warped" rotors. And I certainly don't want to muddy the waters - at least on purpose.

My previous car (B13 SE-R) went through rotors like fish drink water - until I did the Nismo BBK. And prior to the BBK, I tried on multiple occasions to turn the rotors, but they always ended up to thin. Hence my pre-occupation for replacing rotors instead of turning them. That and the local machine shops here apparently can't seem to set their lathes for anything finer than a inch cut.... And that is another topic, but I'll save that for some other day.

Or for a more in-depth discussion of "warped" brakes, look at:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml

 

No problem!
It's taken me four frustrating years to understand, and come to grips with these brakes. I finally feel like I KNOW what I'm talking about, and I don't mind sharing it, as others have done for me.

The only real solution to this problem is a BBK, but they're not cost effective WHATSOEVER. It is so much cheaper simply to replace or refurbish the OEM rotors, albeit a pain in the ****.

I personally have two sets of rotors that I swap-out when the first goes bad. Hawk pads and Frozen Rotors have made no improvements to longevity. I'm on my first "turning" on both rotors, so Likely I'll have to buy a new set next time around. Can you say, el-cheapo?!!

gr

 

You don't think that putting the 6th gen brakes on your 5th gen is cost effective? Or are you referring to some other BBK?

 

I don't really consider that a BBK. It's BIGGER, but not a bbk. Needs to have MORE and BIGGER pistons in the Calps~!
It IS, however, better than the 5th gen stock setup. No argument.
...mo-powah!
gr

 

Has anyone experienced/heard this "high pitched scraping or screeching sound" even when the brake pedal is not depressed? I have 63k miles, have never changed my brakes and am wondering if the sound actually works as I have yet to hear anything from the brakes.

 

I removed my OEM pads b4 they wore down to the "scrapers" -- but they WERE indeed present on the stock pad setup....ready to scrape-away once the pads wore to the nub!
The HAWK HPS pads I installed DO NOT have the "scrapers" on them, so I will need to be mindful of this in the future.

If you drive conservatively, it is not unheard of that you can make the stockers last this long - but you've GOT to be close to the end.

Again - remove the wheel and do a visual inspection if you are worried....this is STILL the best indicator of your pad wear situation.

gr

 

Who makes an oem replacement rotor that is slotted for the 5.5 gen?

 

It's not their job to lie. But more so get the job done as expensively as possible. Some might say that as thoroughly as possible.

Reading the FSM, seems as if they'll replace sensors/harnesses etc before actual troubleshooting the root cause. If it's a snipped wire, they'll go ahead and replace the entire harness/module etc, whether it be practical or not.

Feedback from customer, scenario 1, ,2 ... Go here, check this reading, if NG, repalce. etc

 

Well., that's were you must find a trust worthy mechanic... There are many out there. I have been going to the same mechanic for about 8 years now. I still drive 60 miles just to see him...

Of course I wish I could find one where I live now... BUT... I make due.

 

Finding a trust worthy mechanic is tough. I used to have one until he became an alcoholic and pretty much ruined his life and career.

Give me a good barber and a truthy mechanic and I'm all set.

 

It's not about a trustworthy mechanic. It's if they know the car or not.

Most mechanics go by a book and have a generic thinking for certain problems, and with that said also have a generic thinking for fixing those problems.

 

too bad this thread was hijacked, there was actually a good discussion going on..

 

I agree - too bad.