2000 se 90k miles (never replaced clutch)

(only second tank of regular gas, previously used premium)

Symptoms/When I thought I noticed something (in sequence)

Before you comment on my immaturity, please remember, everyone gets bored sometimes

1.) I was with my friend and decided to burn out, I pulled the ebrake and reved to about 4k and slowly let the clutch out until i felt it start to engage, I then punched it and dropped the clutch, still holding the ebrake, the revs soared yet I heard no wheels, the clutch slipped, bad, and you gotta love the smell after such an event (I thought it was really abnormal for first not to be able to even spin the wheels)

2.) I decided to punch it in first at a light, because it was wide open and no one was around, anyways I got the clutch fully engaged and hit full throttle, only to be dissapointed by a seemingly weak acceleration, the rpms went pretty consistantly all the way to 5 or 6 where as I used to remember it climbing faster as the rpms get higher (like boost), there was no sensation of being pushed back at all and absolutely no torque steer, which I had the last I remember and somewhat enjoyed, knowing my car had at least a little power.

3.) I decided to take the car to the backroads and mess around with the clutch that night to kind of expirement. And honestly not trying to impress myself or produce smoke, I again tried to burnout to see if the same thing happened. I pulled the ebrake and let the clutch out until i felt it start to engage, i dropped the clutch and exchanged it with full throttle, and "chug chug..." the car stalls... in first gear.. with full throttle.. wtf. I finally just reved it to about 45k and literally dropped the clutch and i finally got the wheels to spin, i stopped immediately though because i dont really like to waste my nicer tires. Last time i burned out i member the car stayed put for a lil and even made some descent smoke.

Anyone have any ideas, I mean, ignoring the fact that im trying to burn out and punch it, there seems to be some problems. Look past my immaturity and please provide any input

 

well i know if the car had 90k on it and had been filled with premium for who knows how long, i probably would not have switch to regular

 

umm.. okay thanks for the TIP, gas is getting too expensive and besides that wouldn't be harmful.

 

MAF? VIAS?

try dropping the clutch next time

 

On average, premium gas costs 20 cents more than regular per gallon, and this number is consistant no matter how expensive gas gets. That means by using regular instead of premium, assuming a 15 gallon fill-up, you saved a whopping 3 bucks. Given an average mpg of 20 mpg (and you should be getting better), that comes out to about 150 bucks a year given the standard 15000 miles driven. And that number is probably an overstatement.

Furthermore, using a lower than recommended octane fuel CAN hurt your power, as using an 87 octane fuel in a high compression engine requiring 91 octane can cause detonation (the early ignition of fuel due to heat rather than the intended spark). If you aren't hearing this happening, then your knock sensor is working as it should, and how it was meant, and it's retarding the timing on the engine. This means the engine is not running as intended, and in such a way as can reduce your power AND your gas mileage (hence, making the money saved by using regular in the first place even less). I would try running the tank as dry as possible and filling up with 93 to see if it helps.

This sounds like a case of the dreaded VIAS problem on the 5th gens. I'm not sure if the retarded timing of the engine due to detonation would cause the VIAS not to open, but that sensation your talking about seems to be the sensation of when the VIAS opens and gives you a little boost in acceleration. Now it's not opening for some reason, might need to get it looked at if someone else chimes in and says the retardation of timing has nothing to do with it.




For now, I would say your best bet is try getting the 93 back in there and see if it helps. My guess is it will help a bit, but you may still have problems with the VIAS, but it's a good starting place.

 

Rydicule,
The octane should not have caused the power loss. Even going from 93 to 87 is not enough to lessen the power as dramatically as he states. I agrees it may be your VIAS.

Or

Many high-performance engines are designed to operate with a high maximum compression and thus need a high quality (high energy) fuel usually associated with high octane numbers and thus demand high-octane premium gasoline.

The power output of an engine depends on the energy content of its fuel, and this bears no simple relationship to the octane rating. A common myth amongst petrol consumers is that adding a higher octane fuel to a vehicle's engine will increase its performance and/or lessen its fuel consumption; this is false—engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating they were designed for and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal or even imaginary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_..._octane_rating

 

Heres another good read on octane
http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/octane.htm

 

I'm going to try the 91 again, My VIAS actually DOES work i purposely tried that thinking it was a problem with that RPM "problem" I went on the highway in 3rd and accelerated (not too fast so I could try to notice) and there was the very noticable VIAS kicking in at exactlly 5k. But thanks for the input guys . Maybe nothing's wrong anyways? Hm, Oh well, I'll monitor it.

 

What?

First you said that the type of gas couldn't cause the problem, then suggest that the actual cause of the problem is the gas ?

Your referenced article says over and over again that octane only becomes a factor when an engine is using full compression, which is true. That is exactly what made me think it was the octane, because the description of the power loss was always when he "punched it" or "floored it".

Secondly, your talking about the "energy" of the gas as a factor rather than octane rating. Then you go on to say that the different rated gas doesn't improve performance? Then why couldn't a car that requires 87 octane throw in a "higher quality (energy)" gas and get more performance? The truth is the bonds used by the chemicals in the gas have little effect on performance, the compression does. That's why using 93 octane gas in a car that has a minimum octane rating of 87 will only yield increased performance from those different bond types, which both you and your article describes as "minimal, if anything at all". Their engines won't compress the AF mixture any more because you use a different gas, that's why using better gas for better performance is a false myth.

However, using a LOWER octane gas in an HIGHER compression engine means that combustion is occurring at a lower compression than was intended, which means now your car is running as if it only required 87 octane. This means you lose any performance potential the car obtained by requiring 91 octane gas. You lose the power gained from the extra compression you could have obtained with a more heat-resistant fuel.

Yes, it is true, you will not gain performance by using a higher octane fuel than what your car is rated for, however, that does NOT mean you can't LOSE performance by using a lower octane rating than what your car is rated for. Think about it.

 

The primary reason you'd lose performance with cheap gas is because your car will start retarding the timing when it detects preignition/spark-knock/detonation. The injectors have no idea what octane rating the gas they're passing is. The only way for the engine to know that the gas its burning is not performing like 93 octane gas is if it detonates/pings. If that happens the engine will back the timing off which can make a very large dent in your power.

 

I believe thats what happened actually because the timing does affect the lower gears am I wrong? At least.. more noticablly, and like i said its first gear acceleration thats suffering the most. I dropped the clutch at about 3500 rpm and then punched it and my wheels only squeeked once . How would I make sure the timing gets reset if I went back to 91? Would it do it through the sensor or is it permanent, and I'd have to go to the dealer to have it raised to it's original?

 

The sensor is actively retarding the timing to accomodate the lower compression, the sensor is only activated through detonation. Once you go back up to 91+ gas, the detonation should stop as well as the adjusted timing, and you should be rolling pretty.

Just remember though, you have to get through the gas that's in there, it may or may not take a few miles once you put in the correct gas to work itself out.

No dealer needed.

 

Awesome thanks!

 

Hahaha, best burnout method I have ever heard. That's why your car don't work homie.