AdamK

iTrader: (1)

Well last night I was really bored and I was looking at the sticky thread about cleaning. Well there was a link about car care and such. I was on that site and there is a entire thingy on why downshifting is bad.... http://www.autopia-carcare.com/downshifting.html ... well I talked with my mechanic and he said that is bull **** and hes been downshifting for millions of miles through his life and never did anything bad to his car. I mean on normal roads I love to downshift but is it bad? I've heard a few people who have complained on Maxima cluthes, my dad had to replace his clutch on his 99se with 74k miles but he might of been at fault. I dunno guys to downshift or not to downshift?

Chillboy

Downshift all the way. man, you gotta have fun... nothing like downshifting hard when someone is trying to pass you. besides, all clutches wear out eventually... thats something us manual drivers have to deal with it. if you dont want to downshift, you shouldve bought an automagic.

AdamK

iTrader: (1)

I downshift all the time I just wanted to know if I should feel bad doing it lol, automatic....grrr.........dont say that!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chillboy

no disrespect to automagic owners... but i hear ya! once you go stick, you cant go back.

AdamK

iTrader: (1)

amen my stick brother...

maximawanabee

Right back atcha

djmaxski

Downshifting is ok, not to mention fun. I think the reason ppl say its bad is because if you don't rev match that well (or often), then the sychros have to do all that on their own and then they and/or the clutch wear more.... Oh well, such is life with a 5sp

Norm Peterson

Downshift. Match your revs by double clutching. And do it for the right reasons, like getting a gear that puts the engine revs up where it wants to pull for accelerating out of a turn or to provide more engine braking on long downgrades. Don't downshift just to reduce brake wear coming to stops in normal traffic.

Clutches getting tired at 74k - don't blame downshifting as much as letting it slip too much to get rolling or letting any slip occur while shifting to 2nd or higher.

Norm

2001SE

you are killing the engine faster when you downshift and get more rpm just because you don't want to use the brakes...that's just plain dumb...in downgrades its good,so the brakes won't heat up and warp...but if you are doing high rpm oftenly you are making the engine life's shorter...on my auto usually i never pass the 5rpm unless i am racing and that's a different story...hehe

Mike2000SE

The clutch HAS to slip a little even when going into second or higher. It must slip any time the car engages a gear.

FloMax

I agree with 2001SE, If you are downshifting to aid your stops, then you are foolish. Brakes are made to stop the car...use them. Using downshifting is just going to wear out your engine and clutch faster. I would rather buy lots of $30 brake pads than a $3000 engine or a $1300 clutch.

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

Don't ever downshift! You should never ever ever change from a higher gear to a lower one.


EVER!!




































j/k

Norm Peterson

Well, sort of. To the extent that revs aren't exactly matched the whole time that the clutch is being disengaged and re-engaged there will be some slip. It would require perfectly matched engine and transmission input shaft rpms for both events in order for slippage to be zero, which is probably a theoretical sequence not achievable in practice. About the best that can realistically be expected is minimal slippage with shifting described as only "excellent" or "very good".

Guess I should have phrased it "or intentionally/carelessly letting any slip under significant load occur while shifting to 2nd or higher.

Norm

maxse01

These engines are built to rev. i go past 5 thousand RPMs more times in a day than i can count. Just did synthetic at 11,000 miles and my engine is doing great.

FloMax

at least for now it is...

ToYLeT902

iTrader: (12)

whats double clutching?

AdamK

iTrader: (1)

Well don't say double clutching to a moron cause he could think in terms of an 18-Wheeler like when we shift from say 1st to 2nd its in first, press clutch, shift to second, let go of clutch. In terms of rigs double clutching means if your in 1st and wanna go to 2nd u press clutch take it out of 1st let go of clutch when its in neutral and press again and take it to 1. In terms of cars double clutching means pressing the clutch twice so u go off faster.

Norm Peterson

FYI - those not familiar with double-clutching.

You double-clutch for the same reason in a car, to better match the revs, just that with a car's comparatively light duty transmission and small rotational inertias it's really only helpful on the downshifts when the engine revs need to go up (BTW, on downshifts, when it's in neutral with the clutch out you kick the gas a little to bring up the R's). Your synchro's will thank you for doing it too.

Unless you badly miss the next gear on the upshift, you don't need it for those.

Norm

MarshMan

That just isnt clicking with me?? But on the topic of clutches, u guys know how to shift without using the clutch? Not that u would want to do it all the time but its kinda cool if you want to scare/impress someone. Just wondering who else knew how to do it.

Jonathan Marsh

2001SE

Man...you got it all wrong..i know that these engines are bult to rev but not that high AND not that frequently(i mean you can do it ofently as you want but the engine life will end faster) it doesn't matter if its synthetic..if you use the engine more excessively then it will die faster. you are using more force on the belts,pistons,everything s..engines are mechnical, if you abuse them they will end faster... its something that gets older...its a fact.

For example, you drive on the highway(75,000+ miles) and the engine just stop pulling...you don't know what happened you don't know ****..all you know is that the engine has stoped moving the car...you get to the dealer and you find that one belt was broken...does that ring a bell...Its gonna come back at you...think about it(your tranny has 11000 miles so you can still treat her better)

Listen also to Flowmax

ToYLeT902

iTrader: (12)

what do you consider a high rev? 4,5k?

AdamK

iTrader: (1)

during normal driving i shift @ 3,4 thousand

Max_Gator

Uh, that's why we do maintenance. You know, check the belts regularly, etc.

I don't agree that lower rpms necessarily make the engine or tranny last longer. If you use synthetic oil at proper change intervals, your engine will be far better off at 75,000 miles than a comparable engine using regular dino oil. That's the same reason I use synthetic tranny oil.

Of course, you can abuse your car. I just don't happen to believe that 5k rpms on a regular basis is abuse on this vehicle.

As for downshifting, I don't do it as a substitute for braking - and when I do downshift, I almost always rev match. Whoever believes that a manual transmission shouldn't be downshifted should be driving an automatic. Maybe then he wouldn't realize that when you punch the gas the car downshifts!!!

JLauric

I don't get it. I have downshifted on every manual I've owned to help aid the slow down of the car and save on break wear. Keep in mind that when I do downshift, I try to match the revs of the engine that I was at before the downshift. Why is this sooo bad? Is hasn't been a problem for me in the past.

MajesticBlueNTO

iTrader: (6)

Here's a pretty good explanation on how to double clutch:

http://integra.vtec.net/driving/dclutch.html

cheers

2001SE

Then what's in your terms high reving???

SteVTEC

This whole thing about not using engine-braking or downshifting to slow down on the "you'll wear out your engine faster" argument is pretty silly.

As the most expensive part of your car, the engine is also where the most money is dumped into engineering-wise. Manufacturers don't want people to have to replace the engine in the car before the entire car itself falls apart so they over-engineer the engine to well outlast the car in terms of life.

So if you say that you shouldn't downshift or use engine braking because you're revving the engine more and will wear it out faster, that's really silly. How long do you plan on keeping your car?? 300 or 400 THOUSAND miles??

If a manufacturer expects the car itself (body, interior, electronics - everything except the engine) to last for 200,000 miles, then they'll put some margin on the engine design so that they could expect it to last 300-400 thousand miles - or something "like that"

So if you downshift and use engine braking, or shift at high-rpm's, yeah, you're shortening the life of the engine a little bit, but not enough that you'd ever have to replace the engine - as long as you keep the car and engine well-maintained.

With any Japanese import car, the engine will LONG outlast the car itself.

My mom used to drive a 1985 Toyota Camry and it's now sitting parked in our driveway with 135,000 CITY miles on it. The engine is still reliable and very strong, but the whole rest of the car is absolutely falling apart.

My dad used to drive a 1990 Toyota Camry and it has 207,000 highway miles on it. Right now the car is starting to fall apart a little bit, but again the engine is still strong and very reliable with no signs of any problems besides some hardened valve seals (burns a little oil on startup and that's all).

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As for clutch life, you're not going to significantly shorten the life of the clutch by downshifting and/or downshifting for engine braking. The best thing you can do for your clutch is trying to minimize slippage when starting out, and matching RPM's when you're upshifting before engaging the clutch. The surest way to kill your clutch is high-rpm launches.

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Man, you guys need to stop worrying. You've got the 4DSC, and a 5-spd - so drive a stick shift like it was meant to be - DRIVEN

AdamK

iTrader: (1)

it's appropriate for me to say amen, however I started this stupid thread, but still amen

Menasor

iTrader: (2)

What do you guys mean when you say "match the rev?"

irvine78

iTrader: (2)

heel and toe baby~~~~~

Norm Peterson

Since you mention it, it can be very useful to know how to shift w/o using the clutch and I guess that's at least peripherally related to this topic.

Speaking from experience - Boston, in the South Station tunnel, heavy traffic but not stop & go, driving the Malibu, the clutch pushrod fell out of the throwout arm - it's not terribly difficult if you have sufficient experience with stickshift driving AND A "FEEL" FOR THE MACHINERY.

But I can not over-emphasize that this should strictly be reserved for emergency situations in which you need to move an otherwise disabled car to safety. The kind of person that would be "impressed" by a needless demonstration has no understanding and a knowledgeable observer would conclude that you have more $ than appreciation for the machinery.

Norm