RBa

iTrader: (2)

Company, Price range etc???... Dam dealer wouldn't warranty the rear rotors because my pads were worn. They're blaming the pads to be the cause of the warping... They wanted $330 plus tax fot everything so I figured it'll be better if I just got me some crossed drilled or slotted...

mingo

iTrader: (4)

i wouldn't recomend x'drilled rotors from stillen, my friend's rotors cracked on him on the high way, saw his wheel pass him up on the right and nearly totalled the maxima. if possible slotted, but i'm not sure if they're available for our cars yet..

augie

Hmm...I was about to order some in a couple of weeks. So Stillen x-drilled is NOT the way to go? I was going to order some from Phuong at Eatrice.

emax02

iTrader: (1)

Yep Puang has a sweet deal going at brake set ups and all right now, check it out at http://www.eatricezone.com/other01.html .

RBa

iTrader: (2)

Is Stealin the only company that sells them... Is there any chance the brembos for the 3Zs fit our cars???

cobymoby

iTrader: (2)

That story about the wheels passing him up is so freaking funny and sad at the same time.

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

What did Stillen say?

mingo

iTrader: (4)

dont' know... but yeah.. having your own wheel pass you up on the freeway does sound hecka funny.. but everyone in the car was fine so i can laugh at him all i want..j/p.. stillen musta said somethin like "poor install" or some type of pushing blame words of that sort.. hey, but if i owned the corporation i just might do something like that too, never know.. but i have heard lotza funny things about our brakes cracking when x'drilled. I heard those brakes are brembo blanks and stillen put holes in them.. brembo should make rotors for our cars..

and for taht question.. 300zx brakes would fit our cars with some modifications.. the caliper is just bolt on (you'll need 300zx calipers ifyou want the rotors) and then you'll need to trim off 3mm off the diameter of the rotor (or radius.. people keep confusing me about this one) so the calipers can clear the rotors. it's safer to get get x'drilled z rotors as opposed to x'drilled maxima rotors because z rotors are alot thicker, but unless you do alot of hard braking, auto x'ing i wouldnt' recomend x'drilled rotors. i'm just paranoid about them in general.

Tanman

I hate it when one bad occurrence happens with a product and everyone reads about it and never buys it again. This is probably one of a few incidents with the x-drilled rotors that has ever occurred (lemon?). They're probably a good product, but most will never know because they'll read your post and have second thoughts. So our options are, stick with stock rotors or go with more expensive ones from wilwood or brembo.

victor

iTrader: (1)

only problem with the 300zx brakes are that they are huge, it only would cost maybe 500-600 bones for the brake system, but then you'd have to shell out a grand or two for some new 17's or 18's.

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

Tanmann ... I agree with u ... but it's still important to know about the bad experiences people have had with manufacturers products ...

ispeed

I thought the stillen x drilled rotors are brembo blanks? Thought Stillen just modified the brembo rotors and sell them?

Tanman

Maybe the way Stillen drills them weakens them?

augie

So should we go with with Stillen X-Drilled rotors?? Or should we just stick with stock? I need some. I have had mine taken to service about 3 times and the rotors are starting to thin out. What do you guys recommend??? Thanks

mingo

iTrader: (4)

although i haven't had any personaly experience with cryogenically freezing the rotors, i have heard nothing but positive remarks about getting them done. so brembo blanks, motul 600 brake fluid or equivelant, and good brake pads with stainless steel brake lines should be sufficient. getting 300zx brakes is just a step up.

tanman: many incidents have been reported about x'drilled rotors cracking. my friend unfortunately was the one with extreme bad conditions of cracking. many times you would experience "micro-fractures" with extensive use on x'drilled rotors.. and please no body go on with "what about all those high performance super cars like porche, ferarris" and such, Reason being why they dont' have as many brake problems is because the thickness of their rotors and diameter of their rotor are much greater than our maxima's so they dicipate heat better. Extensive heat would change the composition of a metal making it either weaker or brittle and what not.


for those that are worried about the z-brakes not clearing your stock 16's & 17's i'm guestimating that a simple wheel spacer will help.. it's not the diameter that is the problem, it's the wheel off set that is causing the wheels to not clear the calipers.

if anyone finds any of what i say "discomforting" then i greatly apologize for the discomfort i've caused in you life.. but if i have made an incorrect statement then please correct me.

got rice?

iTrader: (2)

Cracking & warping does occur regardless of the holes, slots, whatever. Under normal street conditions, which most on this forum drive under, the rotors are never heat cycled numerous times to warrant any concerns. My business along with Avalon have sold hundreds of Stillen, Powerstop, Powerslot, etc brake kits over the past few years. I can't speak for Paul, but I have had only one incident. My customer went to the Texas Motor Speedway and totally fried his Stillen sport rotors; he upgraded to the AP Racing 6 piston kit and all is well

Anyway, as long as a street driven car breaks in the rotors/pads correctly, torques them to stock specs (72-87 lb-ft in a criss cross pattern), and doesn't spray cold water on a hot rotor to clean the wheels, problems are minimal.

Gerry

Yes, cross drilled rotors cracking is not that unusual. I have one in my garage (on a Brembo blank....). It is often more common on solid vs vented rotors but it definately happens occasionally to both.

The reason it doesn't happen to the Porsches and Ferraris is that the holes in those rotors are actually cast in during manufacturing and are properly stress relieved in the cooling process. The metallurgy of drilled rotors is much different and the edges in the drilled holes become natural stress risers. Thats also why the rotors for those cars cost many times what the aftermarket drilled ones do for our cars. Rotors like the Stillen ones are more for looks than real performance IMHO.

mingo

iTrader: (4)

i didn't know that but it absolutly makes sense.

Avalon Racing

I like Rice indicated, have sold hundred of brake kits on all types of cars and trucks. For two years I ran Stillen slotted on the show car at track events with no problems. I have customers who run track events almost every weekend and never had a problem. Cracking accurs when the brakes, pads are run past their specificied temperature range. We consult every customer on how they are planning to drive to get the best rotor pad combination.

Brakes:
Let’s start the basic knowledge on brakes with the discussion of “directional” or not. Sport Rotors (drilled or slotted) come marked for a specific side. This is to optimize their functional cooling and out gassing. Sport Rotors can be
used in either direction as they use a piller mounted vein for cooling. The Skyline, Brembo and A/P Brake kits use a radial vein and MUST be mounted directionally.

Now with this out of the way, I would like to provide some basic brake data written by a Racing Brake Development Engineer and myself. The goal is basic brake technology for racing, the street and why certain big brake kits are
required. It will also aid you in the decision to use cross drilled, slotted or a combination rotor. Most use cost to determine the type instead of driving conditions. The wrong type rotor with the wrong pad combination in the wrong
situations means trouble.

“ Most true car enthusiasts are also committed gear heads. Not only can they wring the last amount of absolute power out of their ride, but still feel the need to take it to the next level.

Human nature being what it is, gives us the creative impulses to focus on power increases. The need for speed, while commendable, often comes at the expense of balanced power and delivery output and consumption. To create a
truly great car, one must deliver all facets into account and make them work together. Simply put, the faster you accelerate, the quicker you need to stop. Cars that accelerate like an F-40 but brake like a Pinto on greased drums are
very common. This is not only one of the slowest ways around the race track, but the most dangerous. Powerful fade – free brakes are a true characteristic of a noteworthy performance car. Oddly enough, many drivers do not take the
time to fully understand the mechanics of the modern braking system.

The Principles: (applied in road racing and circle track)
Brakes function by turning kinetic energy into heat energy that can be released into the air, allowing the car to slow down or stop. If you remember Physics 101 in school, energy is neither created or destroyed within the system, it only
changes form. Any object in motion has kinetic energy, and will tend to stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force. You can calculate the amount of kinetic energy by this simple formula: Kinetic Energy=WxS2/29.9 where “W”
is the weight in pounds of the car and “S” is the speed in MPH). Assuming your car weighs 2500 lbs. and travelling at 70 MPH, than you are strapped to 409700 ft-lbs. of kinetic energy. Ahead is a sign posted at 20 MPH ( for the turn). It
is critical that we convert some of the energy so that we can take this turn in a controlled four wheel drift. To take the turn we will have to convert 376255 ft-lbs. of energy into heat. The formula for this is – [ 409700 – (2500x20 2nd /
29.9)] This will require a lot of friction and where a modern braking system comes into play. The rest of the article will give you an idea of the demands put upon the vehicles stock braking systems. While it can be done, you will see
that with a modified systems the demands will be less strenuous on the brake system and the vehicle will have a higher recovery rate of heat to dissipation of kinetic energy.

I really need to note here that most if not all upgrade charts talk about power (in horsepower). BUT, it is my contention that regardless of who’s chart (Stages) you use, the need for improved brakes and suspension starts at Stage III.

I’ll leave out the rest of the variables as they will only confuse the basis of this article. Essentially, what we are all trying to achieve is to stop the car repeatedly and safely. By using cross drilled rotors for their intended purpose
(performance street driving and limited track use) you can increase your performance greatly – provided the right heat range pad and fluid combination is used. Cross drilled rotors provide better initial bite characteristics. They will be
more aggressive under lower temperatures and be able to vent out gasses to a much higher degree than a stock rotor and pad combination.

Generally true race cars use either a combination of drilled and slotted or just slotted. This is due to the fact that their fade characteristics will lessen at higher temperatures. Let’s look at a 100% road race car for example.

These cars will use a slotted (and drilled at times) rotor exclusively due to the high demand that they put on the brake systems. These rotors will provide better braking at higher levels usually seen at an open track (circular) event or
even endurance race. While these rotors work well under these conditions, they may not be suitable for lower temperature and low demand road race tracks.. They can hinder the braking capabilities due to the fact that they will need
higher temps to work efficiently. Open road course events should be taken under more consideration. At race tracks that have long straights and deep turns, slotted rotors would be the preferred rotor due to its ability to out vent at
higher temperatures. Rotor and pad combinations should/must be taken into account as well. Usually at an open track event, much more aggressive pad combinations are used. When using these combinations you will generally
have to deal with a trade off in wear in either the pads or the life of the rotors. More aggressive pads will create more heat and friction thus causing accelerated rotor wear. Less aggressive pads will cause brake fade and accelerated
pad wear. Do not forget that by using a pad that is too aggressive will cause the rotor to wear and require heat to work well. In some cases a pad can damage a rotor causing failure and damage. The balance could mean the
difference in victory or failure.

So what does this all mean, besides you should choose the type rotor, pad and brake system for your needs?

You just read the math and examples as well as some simple rations and characteristics – Now lets put them to use. Think about your particular application. While we all wish that we could out brake the world best drivers into turn
one at LeMans, lets look at reality.

STOP – Sit Down – Have a drink (non alcoholic of course) and ask yourself the question:

While it is possible to put a monster brake system on your car you may never have the need or ability to use them properly. A big brake kit may look awesome but could leave you disappointed. You may never be able to get them to
proper temperatures. For daily drivers and weekend enthusiasts, you may only need to go the way of the cross drilled / slotted rotors and a carbon based pad. I write this under the assumption you already upgrades your brake lines
and fluid.

As I have also said numerous times – proper installation and break-in / seating of new rotors and pads is critical. Improper installations and mis-use is the number one cause of warped or in some cases cracked rotors. Never start
the break-in of rotors is the run-out is more than 5 thousandths.”

Hope this helps.

Copyright – Avalon Ent – Racing Division – All Rights Reserved

RBa

iTrader: (2)

Umm??.. It was more than what I expected to hear.. I just wanted to know what brakes are available for the 5thgen beacuse my rears were completely shot.. What do you guys carry and what combo of pads & rotors do you recomend?

got rice?

iTrader: (2)

hehe.

Click on the link in my signature and follow it to the Maxima brake sale on the main page.

Colonel

available now. The AVERAGE driver (thats me), has already purchased the rims for a big brake kit, but after reading what Paul stated from Avalon, I am not sure that is the way I need to go.

I am occasionally a stop light racer, but truely am tired of the "poor pedal" of the Max. I am looking for decreased stopping distance and better pedal feel (modulation?). It seems that in emergency stops, the brakes do not inspire confidence.

I have read the combination of pads/fluid/lines/rotors can make or break a setup. I will spend money if necessary, but am looking for the end result mainly. For the AVERAGE driver not autocrossing, but occasionally stop light racing and needing "pedal on demand" braking in emergency situations, what would be a recommended setup? I am posing this question mainly to Paul at Avalon (who I have spoken with before) and Phuong at GotRice?.

Thanks for yet more input on this complicated issue.

blackY2Kmax

Colonel - thanks for that post because that is EXACTLY my situation and in looking to change out and upgrade, I would want a brake kit set up for the exact same circumstances. I am an occasional stop light racer and need better 'pedal on demand' braking. I look forward to the responses.

Thanks again.

Avalon Racing

We can beat any verified quote on brake packages.

As for the cracking - this is caused by a bad install, use of the brakes beyond the temperature range of the pads improper break in.

Regards

Colonel

Can we AVERAGE people get a comment on the above post about needing something for the AVERAGE person?

Thanks.
Jon

PhatGuy

Stay stock if you are Mr.Average...
Otherwise there is enough info in this thread to figure out what you need.

Colonel

Umm, close. You can get a brake kit, which is what I though I needed and prepared for, but what temps/demands are necessary to use the kit? It seemed to me that you really have to heat em up to get them to work at peak performance. Does this mean that if I don't they will function below stock, even to stock, or even though not at peak performance better than stock? I did not notice that info.

Also if the bbk is not my best bet, which combination of pad/rotors is going to be a good setup. Which fluids to go to?

And of course, I will put in SSLs. That part seems to be most consistant.

The reason I keep saying AVERAGE, it that most want to upgrade brakes to something a little more secure, but don't want overkill.

I am going to buy what is needed to make my car do what I am expecting. I am not going to hold the answer of Paul or Phuong as gospel truth and yell if it does not work as stated, but I want to get as close as possible. And since they are much more experienced in this field than I, I would much like their opinion.

But thanks for your input.....

got rice?

iTrader: (2)

Stick with a semi-metallic brake pad combo, SS brake lines, and good DOT 4 brake fluid.

There's no real need for slotted or drilled rotors for street use unless you're vain since you'll never heat the rotors/pads up enough. Because of this, you do not need a brake pad compound that has a higher temperature rating (which will not grab when cold). Semi-metallic pads have a higher temp rating/range than stock but not by a huge margin so they are better suited for street use.

Don't expect wonders from the basic upgrade. The only way to really stop the car is by increasing the swept area via big brake kits.

victor

iTrader: (1)

is the motul stuff Dot 4 brake fluid or is it different?? if it isn't DOT 4, what is some good DOT 4 stuff?

naidd

Umm, I have the Stillen x-drilled rotors in combination with their pads (front only, in the rear I have stock rotors with Stillen pads). And I can say I haven't found the perfect brakes yet.

Even on everyday driving (well, not the average everyday driving ) they heat up pretty bad, and start to slide way more than I would like them to. I notice improvement over stock but only by a little margin.

I guess big brakes are the way to go...

Colonel

Then I guess its the big brake kit for me after all. I was in a need to slow down fast situation again today thanks to the lovely Cinci traffic and thought to myself "man, I need something that will slow this car down!"

Is the big brake kit only front calipers? Or does it include rears as well?

got rice?

iTrader: (2)

Front only

got rice?

iTrader: (2)

Yes, the Motul fluid is DOT 4 rated. The ATE Super Blue is also a good alternative.