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2K2 Alarm Fix not possible, BIG PROBLEM!

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Old Oct 8, 2001 | 03:56 PM
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2K2 Alarm Fix not possible, BIG PROBLEM!

Well after consulting with ICE and getting the 2K1 wiring schematic from 2maxguy (Thanks for the diagrams by the way) I believe there is no way this alarm fix is going to be possible without some MAJOR modifications to the SMART entrance unit.

ICE, you said to cut the PINK wire, well on a 2K1, there are actually two PINK wires coming from the SMART unit, one for the Left and Right headlamp assembly.

Now if you cut this wire, the Alarm will not flash the HIDs, thinking great the joint works. Well turned on the headlights, and guess what? THEY DONT TURN ON!! The pink wire is actually a ground wire, when ground is supplied, the headlamps TURN ON. Now the SMART unit controls the ground on this wire, either when the alarm goes off, headlamps are turned on, or the auto feature kicks in.

So as far as my knowledge and using my friend who is an electronics major, he said THERE IS NO WAY to get around this unless you do some major rewiring to get around the relay AND the SMART unit. That we are talking about a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR rewiring job.

Funny thing is that they call it the SMART entrance unit, well looks like Nissan OUTSMARTED us with this freagin SMART-A$$ unit.

Sadly
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Old Oct 8, 2001 | 05:22 PM
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Possible Fix-Phase 1

When I installed my 2K2 HID's I used my own scheme borrowing heavily from what you and IceY2K1 posted. I used the +12V from old H4 plug as + for HID low beam and grounded LB directly to body ground screw. For 9005 high beam I picked up +12V battery power from a tab in under-hood fuse/fuselink box, put in an inline 20 amp fuse through 12AWG wire, split the lead into two legs (one for each side)and ran each to terminal 30 of a Hella (#87106) relay. Jumpered over to terminal 85 (coil +), terminal 87 was switched +12V to one side of 9005 lamp, terminal 86 was coil ground which I ran to Highbeam ground of old H4 plug and finally ran ground leg of 9005 to body ground screw.
This setup allowed me to have both HB and LB on at same time, no problems with flickering HB indicator, HB had own fused power source,with just parking lights on pushing stalk foward allowed me to run only HB...lots of flexibility. Still had flashing HID LB in alarm condition.
Possible solution: install another 87106 relay to break the ground leg that attaches to body ground screw. Its coil would receive power from + leg of clear running light which sits right next door. Coil ground would go right to body ground. Under alarm conditon +12V would be sent to LB but since the ground would be open, no flashing HID LB.
Phase 2 would route +12 to HB possibly through a double pole Nissan relay (1NO-1NC).????
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 06:45 PM
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Re: Possible Fix-Phase 1

Originally posted by 2maxguy
When I installed my 2K2 HID's I used my own scheme borrowing heavily from what you and IceY2K1 posted. I used the +12V from old H4 plug as + for HID low beam and grounded LB directly to body ground screw. For 9005 high beam I picked up +12V battery power from a tab in under-hood fuse/fuselink box, put in an inline 20 amp fuse through 12AWG wire, split the lead into two legs (one for each side)and ran each to terminal 30 of a Hella (#87106) relay. Jumpered over to terminal 85 (coil +), terminal 87 was switched +12V to one side of 9005 lamp, terminal 86 was coil ground which I ran to Highbeam ground of old H4 plug and finally ran ground leg of 9005 to body ground screw.
This setup allowed me to have both HB and LB on at same time, no problems with flickering HB indicator, HB had own fused power source,with just parking lights on pushing stalk foward allowed me to run only HB...lots of flexibility. Still had flashing HID LB in alarm condition.
Possible solution: install another 87106 relay to break the ground leg that attaches to body ground screw. Its coil would receive power from + leg of clear running light which sits right next door. Coil ground would go right to body ground. Under alarm conditon +12V would be sent to LB but since the ground would be open, no flashing HID LB.
Phase 2 would route +12 to HB possibly through a double pole Nissan relay (1NO-1NC).????
WOW
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 06:59 PM
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sorry to be confused. but what is the problem you guys are talking aobut;
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 07:00 PM
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serin

did you see the touchup post?
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 07:23 PM
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Re: Possible Fix-Phase 1

Originally posted by 2maxguy
When I installed my 2K2 HID's I used my own scheme borrowing heavily from what you and IceY2K1 posted. I used the +12V from old H4 plug as + for HID low beam and grounded LB directly to body ground screw. For 9005 high beam I picked up +12V battery power from a tab in under-hood fuse/fuselink box, put in an inline 20 amp fuse through 12AWG wire, split the lead into two legs (one for each side)and ran each to terminal 30 of a Hella (#87106) relay. Jumpered over to terminal 85 (coil +), terminal 87 was switched +12V to one side of 9005 lamp, terminal 86 was coil ground which I ran to Highbeam ground of old H4 plug and finally ran ground leg of 9005 to body ground screw.
This setup allowed me to have both HB and LB on at same time, no problems with flickering HB indicator, HB had own fused power source,with just parking lights on pushing stalk foward allowed me to run only HB...lots of flexibility. Still had flashing HID LB in alarm condition.
Possible solution: install another 87106 relay to break the ground leg that attaches to body ground screw. Its coil would receive power from + leg of clear running light which sits right next door. Coil ground would go right to body ground. Under alarm conditon +12V would be sent to LB but since the ground would be open, no flashing HID LB.
Phase 2 would route +12 to HB possibly through a double pole Nissan relay (1NO-1NC).????
Possible schematic? That seems to be the only way I understand this "jumper this, split that"
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 07:43 PM
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Say What??????????

Dude, cut back on the MOUNTAIN DEW! Just joking.


Dixit, if all else fails, simply put a relay(or 2) on the HIDs. Since, you power the 9005 off the same H4 wire, just put the relay inbetween the HID and the ground screw. Have the coil energized by SOMETHING that receives power ONLY when the key is on. Simple, eh.

I was hoping not to need additional relays, but they might be a necessary bandaid.
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 07:49 PM
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Re: Possible Fix-Phase 1

Originally posted by 2maxguy
Possible solution: install another 87106 relay to break the ground leg that attaches to body ground screw. Its coil would receive power from + leg of clear running light which sits right next door. Coil ground would go right to body ground. Under alarm conditon +12V would be sent to LB but since the ground would be open, no flashing HID LB.
Phase 2 would route +12 to HB possibly through a double pole Nissan relay (1NO-1NC).????
Yeah but I dont think you are understand me yet. BIGGEST problem is that PINK WIRE coming from the SMART unit off of terminal 21 and 59. You "THINK" that is only controls the headlamp flashing when the alarm goes off, BUT it actually also control the headlamps turning on when you click the switch on or when auto turns it on.

Only solution I see if finding the wire coming out of the switch and auto, and running it through the firewall and connecting that to the relay, BUT it has to be a ground switched wire. This is going to be more complicated then I thought.

Now I dont know how it works on a 2K Max, this is a completely different wiring from a 2K to a 2K1.
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 07:52 PM
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Re: Say What??????????

Originally posted by IceY2K1
Dude, cut back on the MOUNTAIN DEW! Just joking.


Dixit, if all else fails, simply put a relay(or 2) on the HIDs. Since, you power the 9005 off the same H4 wire, just put the relay inbetween the HID and the ground screw. Have the coil energized by SOMETHING that receives power ONLY when the key is on. Simple, eh.

I was hoping not to need additional relays, but they might be a necessary bandaid.
First of all, HOW YOU KNOW I DRINK MOUNTAIN DEW LIKE CRAZY?? HAHHAHA

Secondly, I think you are missing my point or I am not understanding you, the headlamp relay are activated by when the pink wire is grounded. So I cant get around that FOR SURE. Only way I see it possible is running a whole NEW power wire for the HIDs also like you have for the HIGHs and then somehow getting that to switch with the HIDs. The only way this is possible is if you COMPLETELY bypass the SMART unit and the Headlamp relay.

GOD DAMN SMART Unit! I swear that thing is freagin NISSAN **** Unit.
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 08:09 PM
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Re: Re: Say What??????????

Originally posted by BigDogJonx


First of all, HOW YOU KNOW I DRINK MOUNTAIN DEW LIKE CRAZY?? HAHHAHA

Secondly, I think you are missing my point or I am not understanding you, the headlamp relay are activated by when the pink wire is grounded. So I cant get around that FOR SURE. Only way I see it possible is running a whole NEW power wire for the HIDs also like you have for the HIGHs and then somehow getting that to switch with the HIDs. The only way this is possible is if you COMPLETELY bypass the SMART unit and the Headlamp relay.

GOD DAMN SMART Unit! I swear that thing is freagin NISSAN **** Unit.
Actually, the DEW comment was towards the 2maxguy. I'm a DEW addict myself.

Anyways, even with your setup you can "break" the path to ground so the HIDs will not have a complete circuit.

Even if the headlamp relays are energized, the path to ground will not be complete, since your NEW relays are open. Once the ignition key is turned on the NEW relays close, completing the circuit thus providing a path to ground through the ground screw, and finally turning on the HIDs. See what I'm saying.

The DUMB Control Unit will activate the LH/RH relays, but the NEW relays will prevent the HIDs from having the necessary grounding point/screw to complete the circuit and turn on. Man this $hit is hard to explain. I see it in my head, but explaining it is a B!TCH
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 08:15 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Say What??????????

Originally posted by IceY2K1


Actually, the DEW comment was towards the 2maxguy. I'm a DEW addict myself.

Anyways, even with your setup you can "break" the path to ground so the HIDs will not have a complete circuit.

Even if the headlamp relays are energized, the path to ground will not be complete, since your NEW relays are open. Once the ignition key is turned on the NEW relays close, completing the circuit thus providing a path to ground through the ground screw, and finally turning on the HIDs. See what I'm saying.

The DUMB Control Unit will activate the LH/RH relays, but the NEW relays will prevent the HIDs from having the necessary grounding point/screw to complete the circuit and turn on. Man this $hit is hard to explain. I see it in my head, but explaining it is a B!TCH
Alright well, I am officially giving up on this fix for now. I think I actually spend 8hrs between yesterday and today F'ing with this damn thing, looking at schematic and crap.

I think I might wait till I see your attempt on it or 2maxguy's. I am brain fried over this crap. Seems so freagin simple when I got the bastard from DaveB and now it turned into a freagin complicated fiasco.
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 08:32 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Say What??????????

Originally posted by IceY2K1


Actually, the DEW comment was towards the 2maxguy. I'm a DEW addict myself.

Anyways, even with your setup you can "break" the path to ground so the HIDs will not have a complete circuit.

Even if the headlamp relays are energized, the path to ground will not be complete, since your NEW relays are open. Once the ignition key is turned on the NEW relays close, completing the circuit thus providing a path to ground through the ground screw, and finally turning on the HIDs. See what I'm saying.

The DUMB Control Unit will activate the LH/RH relays, but the NEW relays will prevent the HIDs from having the necessary grounding point/screw to complete the circuit and turn on. Man this $hit is hard to explain. I see it in my head, but explaining it is a B!TCH
Thank you! For saying in so few words what took me so many. Reguardless of what wiring scheme used, if you can break the HID ground leg, you prevent HID's flashing under alarm. My brain needs a rest or some alcohol?
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 08:38 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Say What??????????

Originally posted by 2maxguy


Thank you! For saying in so few words what took me so many. Reguardless of what wiring scheme used, if you can break the HID ground leg, you prevent HID's flashing under alarm. My brain needs a rest or some alcohol?
Man my brain needs a rest TOO!

By the ground leg, you are talking about breaking that pink wire right? Cause that is a ground switched wire.

Man I need this **** in a schematic form now, freagin brain is fried over trying to write this crap. I am almost through with this crap. GOD DAMN SMART UNIT.......
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 09:20 PM
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Re: serin

Originally posted by TimW
did you see the touchup post?
nope. what post?
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 09:47 PM
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Re: Re: serin

Originally posted by serin


nope. what post?
right here

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=69583

sorry that took so long
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 10:06 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Say What??????????

Originally posted by BigDogJonx


Man I need this **** in a schematic form now, freagin brain is fried over trying to write this crap. I am almost through with this crap. GOD DAMN SMART UNIT.......
It's DUMB CONTROL UNIT, not SMART UNIT. J/K.

Anyways, I'll try and draw up a schematic tomorrow at work, so you can see what I'm talking about.

Later.
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 10:27 PM
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yep..

HID's relayed.. Coil side (-) to switch, (+) side to switched accessory. I get what youre saying ICE. Now I'm just worried about getting all those connections tight and waterproof. thats the trick.
Old Oct 8, 2001 | 10:33 PM
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Re: yep..

Originally posted by TimW
HID's relayed.. Coil side (-) to switch, (+) side to switched accessory. I get what youre saying ICE. Now I'm just worried about getting all those connections tight and waterproof. thats the trick.
If you want a BULLETPROOF long lasting solution, have these guys send you a catalog, http://www.painlessperformance.com/. They probably cost a lot, but I don't care. I like to do things ONCE and NEVER endup with annoying problems that are a pain to track down.

The catalog is FREE and they make nice stuff. Once I get my order I'll let you know. Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.painlessperformance.com/fuseblock.htm
Old Oct 9, 2001 | 08:40 AM
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since the wiring differ's slightly from the 2k model to the 2k1, will I have all of these problems AND more? Hopefully it'll be less. Is there anyone else other than Kev that has a 2k with the lights? I'd like to be able to compare wiring differences if there needs to be any. Thanks guys, I hope we (mostly you because I definately don't know as much) can figure all of this out.
Old Oct 9, 2001 | 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by Keh mon
since the wiring differ's slightly from the 2k model to the 2k1, will I have all of these problems AND more? Hopefully it'll be less. Is there anyone else other than Kev that has a 2k with the lights? I'd like to be able to compare wiring differences if there needs to be any. Thanks guys, I hope we (mostly you because I definately don't know as much) can figure all of this out.
that would be me with a 2k and 2k2 lights.
Old Oct 9, 2001 | 04:21 PM
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Can you email me the schematic? I might be able to help you out.

Paul

bapow1@hotmail.com
Old Oct 9, 2001 | 06:00 PM
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Re: 2K2 Alarm Fix not possible, BIG PROBLEM!

Dam Dog stop scaring about all this ALARM CRAP stuff. I get my 2k2 hid lights tommorrow.. i dont even think i want to install them now..

Anyway , who gotz a viper 550ESP alarm.. i need to know the dealy on how to make it compatible with the new lights..
PM me please.

Peace
Roger
Old Oct 9, 2001 | 06:23 PM
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Re: Re: 2K2 Alarm Fix not possible, BIG PROBLEM!

Originally posted by radpp16
Dam Dog stop scaring about all this ALARM CRAP stuff. I get my 2k2 hid lights tommorrow.. i dont even think i want to install them now..

Anyway , who gotz a viper 550ESP alarm.. i need to know the dealy on how to make it compatible with the new lights..
PM me please.

Peace
Roger
Well MaximaDave and Max'n'out got a Viper 550esp alarm. Now I got no idea what to tell you on how to make it work with that. I aint even thinking about getting an alarm yet.
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 09:38 AM
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wiring harness

like i posted earlier, e-mail painless wiring and ask if they will
come up with the entire fix all together instead.
if they get enough interest, they will build it......
if they build it, we will come........

YJ, no flaming me b/c i'm a newbie still.
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 10:46 AM
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Well i noticed when I arm and disarm the car the parking lights flashes, but when the alarm is setoff or pressing the panic button the headlight flashes. So is there a way to wire it so that the highbeam will flash instead? I think that was a question brought up earlier.
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by nizmomx
Well i noticed when I arm and disarm the car the parking lights flashes, but when the alarm is setoff or pressing the panic button the headlight flashes. So is there a way to wire it so that the highbeam will flash instead? I think that was a question brought up earlier.
Well not to sound like I am flaming ot an A$$, but if you read the earlier posts you would see that we are running into a problem with the 2K1's since the PINK wire is a ground output wire for the headlight relay. If you cut it, you assume that the headlights will never flash during the alarm, BUT, if you cut it (Like what i did) the headlights no longer turn on. That wire is a multi purpose wire, it is used to flash for alarm, ground the relay to turn on the headlights either in the on or auto position. So we need to figure out a way around that.

ICE is currently working on it and will be giving us a diagram of what he is talking about. BUT REMEMBER this is for a 2K1, the wiring on a 2K is completely different and dont know how that works.
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by BigDogJonx


Well not to sound like I am flaming ot an A$$, but if you read the earlier posts you would see that we are running into a problem with the 2K1's since the PINK wire is a ground output wire for the headlight relay. If you cut it, you assume that the headlights will never flash during the alarm, BUT, if you cut it (Like what i did) the headlights no longer turn on. That wire is a multi purpose wire, it is used to flash for alarm, ground the relay to turn on the headlights either in the on or auto position. So we need to figure out a way around that.

ICE is currently working on it and will be giving us a diagram of what he is talking about. BUT REMEMBER this is for a 2K1, the wiring on a 2K is completely different and dont know how that works.
Dixit, Actually Ray(2maxguy) ALREADY has a solution to the problem. His setup requires 4-relays total, but looks BULLETPROOF. He faxed it to me and I GLANCED it over. You should have him send it to you if you don't already have it.

I'm POSITIVE adding 2-relays on the HIDs ground wire will fix it. The relay closes by tapping the running lights power wire. This would be the simplest solution to your setup. I'm going to go with a combination of mine and 2maxguys' setup for my FINAL setup.

I'm working on the schematics and I'll post ASAP.
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by IceY2K1


Dixit, Actually Ray(2maxguy) ALREADY has a solution to the problem. His setup requires 4-relays total, but looks BULLETPROOF. He faxed it to me and I GLANCED it over. You should have him send it to you if you don't already have it.

I'm POSITIVE adding 2-relays on the HIDs ground wire will fix it. The relay closes by tapping the running lights power wire. This would be the simplest solution to your setup. I'm going to go with a combination of mine and 2maxguys' setup for my FINAL setup.

I'm working on the schematics and I'll post ASAP.
I GOT YOU! GREAT!!! So all I gotta do is tap the running light wire and the relay closes causing the lights to turn on. THANKS 2MAXGUY!!!
AND ICE!!!

I actually am kinda stupid that I did not think of that in the first place. DAMN......... But one more question, will the auto feature still work?

Dixit
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by BigDogJonx


I GOT YOU! GREAT!!! So all I gotta do is tap the running light wire and the relay closes causing the lights to turn on. THANKS 2MAXGUY!!!
AND ICE!!!

I actually am kinda stupid that I did not think of that in the first place. DAMN......... But one more question, will the auto feature still work?

Dixit
Yes, the AUTO feature will work.
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by IceY2K1


Dixit, Actually Ray(2maxguy) ALREADY has a solution to the problem. His setup requires 4-relays total, but looks BULLETPROOF. He faxed it to me and I GLANCED it over. You should have him send it to you if you don't already have it.

I'm POSITIVE adding 2-relays on the HIDs ground wire will fix it. The relay closes by tapping the running lights power wire. This would be the simplest solution to your setup. I'm going to go with a combination of mine and 2maxguys' setup for my FINAL setup.

I'm working on the schematics and I'll post ASAP.
Thanks, I don't have a scanner to post any diagrams, I would appreciate it if you could get the word out. The relays I used were Hella 87106 ($10.00 ea. locally) for switching highbeams and Hella 87499 ($4.00 ea.)for switching +12V over to flash the highbeams. Thanks
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 03:56 PM
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thanks again for all the work on this solution. it's really helpful to have some guys who know wiring help out on this.

keep us posted on the schematics. thanks
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 04:09 PM
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I'm noticing a lot of questions as to flashing the HIDs will kill it or not and the alarm issue with the lights. Has anyone actually had checked a 02 maxima and see how the lights work? ie... HID Stay on when high beams are on... (I think that's probably been answered from NIssan's website and pictures), whether the HIDs flash when the alarm goes off on an 02? If it doesn't then I'll shut up, but if it does, then I would say it probably wouldn't hurt it because Nissan left it that way. And I would hope they want theiir product to last.
Old Oct 10, 2001 | 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by young1976
I'm noticing a lot of questions as to flashing the HIDs will kill it or not and the alarm issue with the lights. Has anyone actually had checked a 02 maxima and see how the lights work? ie... HID Stay on when high beams are on... (I think that's probably been answered from NIssan's website and pictures), whether the HIDs flash when the alarm goes off on an 02? If it doesn't then I'll shut up, but if it does, then I would say it probably wouldn't hurt it because Nissan left it that way. And I would hope they want theiir product to last.
I can tell you for a fact they stay with the highbeams and they DO NOT flash with the alarm on the 2K2 car.
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