Jibberish18

Sorry for the horrid acronym. I didn't want to fit the entire length in the Title. It stands for Intake Valve Timing Control Position Sensor. My girlfriends car recently threw out 2 codes indicating this sensor needed to be replaced. We took it to Autozone and found out it was the same sensors, in 2 different banks. So she took it to the dealership and of course they absolutely raped her on price (To be fair, I don't know how hard the sensors are to replace).

Reason I'm posting is because a while back I had posted how her 2003 Maxima engined "knocked" at about 2,000 RPM's. Her car also had some pretty mean valve chatter when she started the car. It was also pretty slow to respond to the throttle and had trouble downshifting. Now that the sensors are replaced, it seems to have fixed the problems mentioned above. I may need to drive the car more but I can tell you for sure that the responsiveness and knocking is now gone. The valve chatter at startup is questionable since I only spent a day with the car.

So I'd like to know what exactly these sensors do? I know by the description what they do, but I can't imagine mechanically what they do? How do they adjust the valve timing? Wouldn't that be mechanical rather than electronic? Also, would it make sense for those 2 sensors to cure the problems posted above? Thanks for looking folks. I'm going to search Google in the mean time.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Take a look at the FSM, that should answer all your questions on what they do and how they do it.

Valve chatter on startup only? Sure it wasn't timing chain rattle?

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

If they replaced the camshaft position sensors, the labor should have been minimal since the the recall page I read about them showed 0.8 hours labor to replace all three. If it was the IVT solenoid, that is more labor intensive.

Do know what the codes were?

I've been having a problem with an intermittent pending P0340 code and today, I got both the P0340 and a P0011 so I am guessing I probably need to replace the IVT solenoid. The only drivability problems I've had it a hesitation or bog while accelerating. Turn the car off, reset the codes and it drives fine for the next month or two.

I'd appreciate it if you could look at the receipt and see exactly what the dealer did to correct the problem and what the codes were. That may help me with my problem.

Jibberish18

I'd definitely look into it. I was disappointed because I couldn't remember what the 2 codes were and my girlfriend threw away the AutoZone receipt but I forgot to look at her dealership receipt. I'll definitely let you know.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

So we're talkin about a 2003 Maxima right? From my experience (im a nissan tech) everytime we get these codes we always check the engine oil level first. The fact that you said there was a knock noise and some timing chain chatter leads me to beleive your oil is probably hella low. Alot of techs overlook this and go straight for the replacement of the sensors. Nissan even has a TSB about these codes tellin us to first check the oil level etc etc. Low engine oil level will cause air pockets inside the oiling system and also will cause issues with the camshaft phasing therefore will typically set these codes.

When these sensors actually do go bad its because engine oil gets inside the sensors and damages them. Nissan had updated the sensors now to having a metal sheild around the magnet instead of just plastic in order to prevent oil from getting into the pins. Labor shoulda been around half hour to one hour at whatever their labor rate is and i think $90 per sensor? Not sure.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

I checked my oil level after I got the pending P0011 and P0340 code (already replaced the bank 1 camshaft position sensor back in May) and the oil level was fine but I just past the 5000 mile mark since the last Mobil1 oil change. Could dirty oil affect the IVT solenoids? Going to change it today and see if that keeps the code from returning. Also, I don't believe the shop I've been taking my car in for oil changes is using a filter with an anti-drainback valve so I'm picking up a Mobil1 filter or maybe even an OEM filter to see if that helps.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Im not sure if dirty oil will cause that, i mean anythings possible i guess. Since we only use factory 15208-65FOC oil filters i can't say anything about that either.

Ill check at work tomorrow for ya, see if theres any TSBs or anything new, i know theres a couple TSBs found IVT sprocket rattles and theres also that secondary timing chain tensioners update as well. You got a VIN and mileage by any chance? I just wanna check your warranty and vehicle build history.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

PM'ed you my VIN, mileage is approximately 137,880. I guess TSBs won't be done for free but I understand that recall work is done regardless of mileage.

Thanks!

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

OK I saw you have no open recalls and i see you got your sensors done at 43,xxx miles. Both codes do point at the IVT solenoid bank 1 being bad however i've seen this before. The only tsb that comes up states to check engine oil level and to verify good oil pressure is present. Once I had a car with timing chain rattle and turned out to be the oil passage between the oil pump and block through the timing cover had a blown gasket and oil pressure was leaking out. Ended up replacing the rear timing cover for that.

You say you already replaced the camshaft sensor on bank 1 right? Your positive you got the correct bank? When you replaced the sensor did it look like it had a metal round cylinder lookin sheild around it? Because thats what the newest sensors look like now instead of the typical plastic design. This is to keep engine oil from making its way into the sensor and ruining it.

What I would do is remove the bank 1 cam sensor and look inside the harness connector (should be green right?) and make sure there isn't oil inside the pins. Spray some brakekleen in there and blow shop compressed air in it to ensure no engine oil is present. Then make sure there isn't engine oil inside the terminal pins in the sensor as well. If there is you might need a new sensor. Let me know what you find.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

I appreciate the information. Oil level was about 2/3rds up between the add and full lines on the dipstick. Not hearing any lower engine noises that would make me think oil pressure is low but I am not sure how low it would have to be in relation to proper oil pressure to cause a problem with various oil pressure dependent engine components and sensors. I do have the start-up rattle, had it since I got the car 24,000 miles ago. The oil pressure light has never come on when the car is running or even flickered at idle, even on 100+ days. It does flicker a bit (a second or two) when I first start the car when fully warmed up and it has sat more than 10 minutes but less than an hour or so, hopefully that is because the oil filter doesn't have an anti-drainback valve. Didn't even know our cars needed one until I did some poking around. Cold starts, no flicker at start up.

Usually when I get the P0340 code, it is after getting on the gas too hard when the engine is cold (sometimes hard to get out from my street to the main street without accelerating quickly) or if I have hit the rev limiter manually shifting (again, needing to get out into traffic quickly and not wanting possible wheelspin to cause the transmission to prematurely upshift into 2nd). This is only the second time it has happened so randomly, the other time was when I got off the freeway and sat at a light for 30-40 seconds before it changed. Got a huge bog when I accelerated when the light changed. I didn't have a code reader than, nor get an SES light though so I can't be sure if a code was even thrown.

Bank 1 is closest to the firewall, that is the one I replaced. Didn't notice any oil inside the connector when I took it off but I probably didn't look all that hard at it either. I would assume any of the sensors they carry at the dealerships would be the new version. I'll check it tomorrow to see what I have and how it compares to the old sensor.

Assuming the new sensor and oil pressure is fine, then replace the IVT solenoid?

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Just thought I'd ask...wouldn't low oil pressure make this a more constant problem? Instead of maybe once every couple of months?

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Well i'd say definately check the connector and sensor first, that little bit of engine oil can do some harm. I've accidentaly forgotten to clean the oil out of the connector before and had the code reappear. If the sensor is in fact the newer style with the silver metal sheild around it then just run it again and see if it reappers. If so, i'd say replace the IVT solenoid on that bank, maybe even a used one if its cheap enough.

If it reappers again there might be a problem with your actual VTC sprocket, uncommon but I have seen it especially if your still getting a chain rattle at startup. But yeah, definately get an OEM filter, thats all i recommend.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Well yeah, anythings possible. But I think low oil pressure might set codes for both banks so yeah. I doubt its low oil pressure but i just thought id throw that out there since its listed as a possible cause in Assist.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for your help.

pd1921

I'm new to Max. org. 2003 Max SE in dealer shop. Was told problem is variable timing solenoid. Service Engine Soon light on, missing badly on idle, oil in intake. Have noticed oil usage between oil changes. 97,000 miles. Will replacing VTS fix oil use problem? Anything else I need dealer shop to check? I have 100,000 mile extended warranty & this repair is covered, don't want more problems down the road. Thanks

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Turbizzy FTW, guy is always dropping the straight knowledge.

There is also a small metal strainer in the selenoid that you can check.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Haven't had the code in a while now but might do some poking around next week after I am up and about after my hernia surgery next Tuesday. Can't work (detailing) for a week, but I ought to be able to turn a few wrenches.

dizmax96

iTrader: (2)

interesting how im comin across this. anyways how long is the recall effective for the cam and crank sensors? i havent had any accel issues or any driveability issues at all. is this something i should jus get done anyway?

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Recalls aka campaigns, stay open on your vehicle until you get it performed. Yes you should definately have your sensors replaced if the campaign applies to your vehicle. Last thing you want to happen is for your car not to start on a long roadtrip or stall on the freeway. If you want, PM me your VIN and i can see if you have any open campaigns.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Well it is possible for the solenoid to be bad and cause driveability issues if the vtc sprocket is doing weird things. As far as oil in the intake, its not uncommon for there to be a film of oil inside the runners, i see it all the time even on different cars. I think its mainly from the PCV system.

If your really concerned with oil consumption have the dealership perform a oil consumption test. This usually envolves having your oil and filter changed and oil level topped off and marked on the dip stick. Then they usually put silicone or something on the stick, filler cap, oil filter and drain plug to make sure you don't tamper with it. If the silicone bead is broken the test is null. Anyway you return back to the dealer every 500-800 miles and have the oil level documented after allowing the engine to sit off for more than 10 mins to ensure all the oil drains into the pan.

Be aware though, unless they actually find a problem with oil consumption, you might be responsible for paying for the test. They're not just gonna do it just cuz you said so. Usually theres an agreement, if somethings wrong then they don't charge if its under warranty.

ICULookN

iTrader: (3)

I just got the p0011 code. I'm curious on how much did it cost to repair? Is this a DIY? Turbizzy I hope you don't mind but I sent you my vin# to see if I have any tsb's. I want to thank you guys for putting out so much information on this, it's really informative. The Org never ceases to amaze me.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Any symptoms? When I got mine with a P0340 code, my car would jerk on acceleration (like something was trying to limit the car) until I turned the engine off and restarted it. Never got a SES though, always pending. So random makes it hard to diagnose. Only got it one time too. The other times I get the same drivability issue, I just have the P0340 code and it was replaced under the recall and then again by me.

ICULookN

iTrader: (3)

No symptoms for right now.

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Ok I see you got your sensor recall (R3022) done back in 04 at 31k miles and several other things like a couple radios, o2 sensors and some kinda throttle stopper.

Again the only tsb i can find is NTB06-079a which states if P0011, P0014, P0021, P0024, P1110 and P1135 appear then to first check for correct oil level and correct oil pressure. Specifically states to first check these before replacing any solenoids or VTC sprockets. Also says there may also be some VTC sprocket rattle at startup with low oil level or pressure.

But just from my experiece these weird codes are typically caused by aftermarket filters and/or low oil levels. If that all checks out ok, typically the sensor itself is faulty. Like I mentioned above, oil also enters the plastic sensors and causes codes cuz the oil enters the connector pins. So you can try spraying Brake Kleen inside the electrical connector of the harness and the sensor and spray some compressed air to blow dry it out and do this a couple times and see if the code reappears.

Also states that you can check the signal plate on the back of the camshaft where the sensor gets its pickup from, check for debris or cracks or broken teeth but its unlikely is its intermittent.

gsimatos

Turbizzy, I have a 2002 and CEL has come on. I took it to the shop today and got they found the P2100 code/cam sensor issue as you discussed above. They reset it CEL now off and told me not to worry and just drive. It has just come on again. i would like to check the connector as you suggested above. Anyway for the technically challenged (me) to locate this sensor? Also is there a way I can try to shut off the CEL myself without taking it to the shop (for another$90). Thanks G

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Get your own code reader to erase codes. I got mine at Pep Boys for around $80.

Did you have any symptoms related to the code?

gsimatos

Nope, the car runs great. I am learning alot from you guys on this site. Seems like a ton of folks have had this P0021 code issue. I am going to see if there are any warranty/recalls for my car on monday. I have a 2002 6-speed and a 2000 5-speed. I think these are terrific cars. These little glitches are annoying but they go great otherwise. I will get a code reader tomorrow, Thanks for your help Cheers G

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Did you pay for them to look at the car? If so, you need to take if back and have them re-diagnose it and unless they find something that needs replacing, you should not be charged for rediagnosing. You might be charged for replacing a part such as a sensor but plain and simple if they charged you to look at it and simply erased the code and now its back, then you get a free recheck IMO.

gsimatos

I first took the car to the local garage and that is where they found the P0021 code. That was not the Nissan place and their "engine analysis" rate was $79 plus tax. So I took that report in hand and went to the Nissan place today and turns out my car is one where the warranty recall covers the cam sensors so they have agreed to replace them no charge on wednesday. I hope that solves the problem. I am a little apprehensive using the dealer as they always seem to be expensive so I will believe it went I see it. I will let ya know what happens Thanks G

turbizzy

iTrader: (3)

Well thats good to hear, im pretty sure your car will be covered under the recall R3022. I can't stress enough this is why i stongly suggest the dealership anytime you have any problems. I bet that "garage" you took it to had no idea about this recall and im sure they're not giving you back your money either for something you are basically getting for free from the dealer. I can't really say i'd expect them to, they did provide a "service".

gsimatos

It is a double edged sword. I agree the local shop guys have been fair with me in the past and got me on the right track, and they gotta make a living. They also pointed out the big picture. Because the sensor reports a fault and a code you still cannot distinguish between a bad sensor or a failure in the system it is monitoring. The shop mecchanic told me he sees guys all the time who find an oxygen sensor error, they buy the new sensor then come to him to have it put in. He then finds a vaccuum leak producing a lean reading in the engine and the oxygen sensor appropriately reports a problem. He fixes the vaccuum problem, no new sensor is needed but the customer had bought one already. And the big issue is some of these gremlins are in fact covered by a recall which I appreciate. The dealer is likely going to have some info if the recall applies to your vehicle, not the local garage guy. Oh for the old days and my 76 Honda. One indicator an oil light, that's it. No codes and went over 300,000 and the engine never quit (just the body desintegrated with rust). Thanks again for your help G

gsimatos

At the dealer this am 08:00
replaced:
AL60C sensor
AL61A sensor
6J90B sensor

Done at 09:30...........NO Charge-all covered.
Gotta love it. I even think the car is a little smoother but might be in my head and NO CEL!! Thanks again for putting me into the recall/warranty coverage for my Max, Cheers Ghttp://forums.maxima.org/images/smilies/greenbouncer.gif

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Hope it works for you. I never got an SES light but I did have pending P0340 and P0011 (just once on that one) codes pop up occasionally and it seems my car goes into some sort of safe mode about half the time until I turn off my car and restart it. Replaced the cam sensor for the code (even though all 3 were replaced at 43,000 miles) and I still have the problem. Happens maybe once every month or two so it makes it really hard to track down.