I bought my 2k2 Ebony loaded SE w/6spd on Nov 7/01. Prior to that I had owned a Lincoln LS with the 5spd manual. After 1 1/2 weeks and 1800 km of ownership, I can come to some conclusions.

2k LS likes:
handling - rear wheel drive and 51/49 f/r balance is VERY nice
braking - feels about as strong as the Max, but the LS nose does not dive at all. In fact the rear end would squat during hard braking.
heated wipers - nice in Ontario
exclusivity - in the 80,000 km that I owned it, I only saw 3 other manual tranny LS's
headroom - had lots, even with the moonroof.
scheduled maintenance - didn't pay a dime for any as it was covered by Lincoln for the entire period I owned the car.

dislikes:
power - the 3liter V6 just doesn't have the grunt to move that car, unfortunately you can't get the stick with the V8.
leather - compared to the Max, the leather felt like plastic.
Lincoln dealerships - SUCK!!!!
interior storage space - there is none when the changer is in the glovebox.
wood trim - just looked cheap
cupholder
stereo system - even with MBQuarts, it can't compare to the BOSE

2k2 Max SE likes:
power - the VQ is a wonderful motor (like I have to repeat that here)
mileage - already better than the LS, the extra gear helps this alot
interior storage space - live without and you really get to appreciate it
HID lights - the LS's were good, but something about the bluish glow from Xenon
leather seats
in-dash cd w/cass
less $$$$$
heated steering wheel
one touch up/down driver, pass, and roof
interior design
trunk space
Nissan reliability - I hoping what I've read is true
various height center armrest
CUPHOLDERS!!!
guages

dislikes:
front wheel drive - it's been about 14 years since I've driven fwd, so maybe I just need to get used to it.
no heated wipers - they just were nice to have
tail of car - it's growing on me though.
stock RE92's - anyone in Ontario want to buy these? - only 1000 easy km on them

So those are my comments. Time will only tell if the Max becomes my favorite of the two.

 

thanks for the comments...it looks like you'll enjoy the maxima more then the LS...have fun with the 6sp

 

Heated wipers?? I have never heard of that. How do those heated wipers work? Do the blades just heat up??

 

There is a heating element beneath the glass (next time you see an LS take a quick look). They only work when the wipers are in the rest position. If the wipers were frozen to the windshield, they would be unfrozen well under a minute. More importantly, my LS never had a build up of ice on the rubber part of the blade. The metal portion of the blade was still susceptible to freezing, however. Subaru does something like this as well. It's also on Chrysler mini-vans. I'm not sure if any other cars have it, but I would think so. People's jaws would drop when I told them I had heated wipers, now their jaws drop when I tell them I have a heated steering wheel.

Albert

 

I am surprised that you do not favor front wheel drive for the snow and ice around Ontario.

 

As I had mentioned in my original post, it's been quite some time (14 yrs) since I've owned a front wheel drive. The benefits of front wheel drive over rear wheel drive are, in my opinion, accelerating from a stand still. I believe that in order for a car to be good in the snow, it must 1) have reasonable ground clearance, 2) handle well to begin with 3) have some sort of snow tire on all 4 wheels and, most importantly, number 4) have a competent and skilled driver at the wheel.

Of all the vehicles I've owned in the past 6 years - 93 GMC 2500 4x4 Turbo Diesel, 94 Camaro Z28 modified to produce ~380 bhp and a 2k Lincoln LS - all had Blizzak snows on them, which would you say was the best? On the surface, the truck should have been the best, with it's 4 wheel drive. Acceleration in 4wd was like a scared cat on meth. But braking and steering were still awful compared to the other two vehicles. I've yet to get stuck in any snow, so I don't think that traction from a standstill is a priority to me. Stopping and turning are. The Camaro was the easiest to control, even with that much power and such a light rear end. I just ran ~20psi in the rear tires and ~25psi in the fronts. The temperature was cold enough that I didn't worry about heat destroying the tires.

Once we get some snow up here, I'll be able to decide if fwd will be 'the best' or not. It's gonna be fun, getting to the bottom of this, none the less.

Albert

 

The RE92's are good between April and October (I'm across lake Erie from you). Better get another set of Blizzaks or Artic Alpines for the rain/snow that's coming to a street near you fairly soon.

I almost put my Max in a ditch during the first snowstorm of 2000. The Rims/Snowtires came from Tirerack a week later - man, what a difference.

 

I actually installed Nokian Hak NRW's about a week ago on steel wheels. I've had Blizzak's in the past, but decided to try the Haks based on comments/reviews.

We're getting a light dusting of snow today, but nothing that's staying. I want it to snow so I can test the Haks, but I'm moving Dec 1, so I want it also to be gone that day

Albert

 

Nokian Hak 1's with studs. I use them in Ontario, and they are beyond doubt the best thing on ice next to the Ice Capades.

 

How are the Hak 1's without studs? Where did you get your tires from?

Something else about the LS that I forgot to mention but like more than the Max is the thicker windshield and the HVAC system. The windshield definitely made the sound of rain alot quieter and the HVAC system in that car was the best I have ever used.

Albert

 

I've had the studs in since day one, so not sure how they would be without..picked them up in Pickering.

 

i'm glad u like ur car...more so than u hate about it

but i'm pretty sure that u know FWD cars have advantage in snowy weathers compared to the RWD cars...

 

Glad I don't have to change shoes(tires) as much as you guys but hey whatever you have to do in the north to be safe and to keep those max's unblemished…hey my hat's off to you!. Here in Atlanta, the heart of the south I have only had about four sets of tires bought for 3 max's I've had…I'm thankful
Congrad's on your purchases an welcome my friend's to the Greatest Driver forum in all the net MAX.org!!

 

because of the weight yes, but what about in a ferrari or porshe where the weight is baised torwards the rear of the car? (rear engine rear wheel drive ) or how about the BMWS with near 50-50 weight distibution? I would say these rare cases are nice

 

Exactly. The LS (w/5spd man. tran.) is 51/49 front/rear weight bias. The accelleration on snow is not bad at all in a car like that. I've never been stuck in any of my cars (380 hp '94 Z w/6spd, '90 T'bird SC w/ 5spd man. or the LS) Good tires with the correct pressure and some experience driving makes all difference. It's going to be interesting learning how to drive all over again.

I am getting used to the extra weight on the front of the Max as well as the front wheels doing all the work, so I'm starting to get some more fun out of the corners now Love that VQ and the 6stick

 

most dude's with ferrari's and porsche's up here keep them in heated garages over the winter. they just wouldnt bother putting them on salt and sand saturated roads to begin with.but something like say a Lincoln, you could put 50 pounds of sand in the trunk,and that might get you thru the snow

 

How's Lincoln's reliability What are the 1/4 and 0-60 times? I heard 5 spd ones are quick even with their 6-cyl.

 

My LS was very reliable. The only problems I had had to do with the driver side heated seat element failed twice (claimed it was a design problem), moisture inside the headlights (claimed it was a manufacturer problem - hopefully the Max doesn't do that) and vibrating driver side mirror (never fixed - tried 8 mirrors, though). Lincoln dealer did all they could to try and fix this stuff, but sometimes the new parts they sent were worse than what they were trying to fix. The car never left me stranded, so in that sense it was a terrific car. Mind you I sold it at 80,000km (~50,000 miles). The girl that bought it is just wild about it. She still calls me regularly and we go out once in a while.

As far as performance goes, Max's will kill it in a straight line. The V6 w/5spd man. was about equal to the V8 w/auto LS - 0-60 in ~7.2. Not anywhere near my 2k2 SE w/6spd With that said, don't chanllenge one to a twisty backroad. The LS w/5spd will absolutely destroy the Max in the tight stuff. Until I drive a Max with modded suspension, I will be willing to put money on it. That thing would hang with many BMW's. A friend of mine has a modified 99 328is that's been lowered. He would pull away from me on the highway, but I would kill him through twisty switchbacks. Sure, some of it had to do with driver skill

All in all, if Lincoln could put the Max's VQ and tranny into the LS, I may have bought another. However, there is still the matter of horrible Lincoln dealer service

Albert

 

Don't LSes have small backseats? I rememeber being in one before my Dad bought the Max and my knees were pushing into the front seats...

Glad ya like the car, enjoy

 

I don't believe they are any smaller than the Max.

I just did a check at Nissan's site as well as Lincoln's. Below are their numbers

dim in in......Hip.....Leg.....Head.....Shoulder
........LS.....54.4....37.4....36.7.....57
.......Max....53.7....36.2....37.4.....56.2

It didn't specify with or without moonroof, but I feel that my old LS had more headroom, even though it had the moonroof, as my 2k2 SE does. The front of the seat in the Max doesn't seem to go as low as the one in the LS, so my head does touch the headliner unless I 'slouch' slightly.

Albert

 

I met up with the girl that bought my Lincoln LS in Toronto yesterday. We were meeting for dinner and conversation. When we met up, she threw me the keys and said 'See what you think now'. I took the car from Dufferin and Steeles in Vaughn to Steelcase and Woodbine via Hwy.401.

First thing I noticed was how stiff that clutch is compared to the Max. The take up is much later in it's travel as well. The Max clutch starts moving the car right away, whereas the LS doesn't start until the last third of it's travel.

Second, the shifter felt weird to me. It felt as though the tranny was tilted forward. Looking at the tranny from the side of it, picture first gear being at about 10 o'clock and second gear at about 1 o'clock. Funny I never noticed that before I started driving the Max.

Third, the LS brakes are much stiffer to apply. When they did the safety before I sold her the car, the dealer installed new pads and rotors, so I'm sure that contributed to it.

Fourth, the handling is much less 'floaty' than in the Max (never thought I'd hear that about a Lincoln). A much more composed ride with far greater control at speed.

After dinner, we were driving back to Kitchener and she pulled up beside me at a light in the Lincoln. She rolled the window down and wanted to race. I told her she had no chance but she insisted. Light changed, she pulled away, I took off easily as I don't want to smoke my winter tires. I easily kept up to her and once in third I stood on it. She didn't have a chance. Afterwards she called me on the cell phone and exclaimed what I think many more people will 'That thing is awesome!'

Kinda glad she didn't drive the Max before she bought the LS

Albert

 

yep, Maxima's suspension is not the greatest-the stock form. My car floats freely like a boat (2k GXE). I just came back from a trip to Niagara Falls, Canada via mountainous roads of upstate NY and Central PA, saw a horrible accident involving as 5th gen SE, the car was overturned.