ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for letting me know.

Questions for you: are you stock, ever replaced any suspension/steering components, how many miles?

fessa

stock - meaning any modifications? - no.

front driver-side bearing was replaced twice (~45K, 100K).

I'm 2nd owner, but AFAIK (I have all receipts from the previous owner) - nothing else has been replaced.


mileage - 102K

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Cool, I just wanted to make sure you didn't have mods ('cause I don't) to lessen the number of possible variables.

DennisMik

iTrader: (2)

Do you know the history of that car? Where did it come from? You have so many problems with it.

What you may want to consider is taking the car to a collision repair frame shop and have them check out the car to see if it is truly straight or if the unibody frame is bent sidways.

jasonmax

iTrader: (2)

so far as I know, its pretty normal the streering wheel turns when you hit uneven surface

Mu_036sp

iTrader: (2)

I bet its riding like New!

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

If this is what "new" rides like...shoulda saved my time & money.

I'm sure there will be at least some "give" but I'm pretty sure what I experience is not normal.

As for the history, going strictly off the carfax, 1st owner purchased new, owned for 3 years, ended up at an auction for 3 months, 2nd owner purchased, owned for 2 years, sat for a year, and then I bought it (120k miles). When I bought it, only had a bad VIAS solenoid control valve and knew I needed new tires (which is what I blamed the original problem on). New tires greatly improved the quality but problem gradually returned.

I know I have problems but I also know my limits when it comes to throwing more money into it or not. Aside from this stuff, exhaust leak, possibly clogged radiator, and rusted oil pan...all things that aren't too bad to fix.

Still need to go to a shop to see if they can check the frame.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Just for reference: two threads where swapping out balljoints/control arms really tightened up the steering:

http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...-write-up.html

http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...led-today.html

Hopefully that's all it takes for me...

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Anyone on the board ever do a steering rack replacement and care to offer any tips?

There's a thread on the 4g side but wondering how close that will match 5th/5.5 gens.
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ring-rack.html

aaroneckblad

I had the same problem with bump steer and a new set of tires fixed the problem. They were only about half worn, but must have been defective.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

As if I need to add another factor into the equation, but what about axles? Can defective axles negatively affect steering, even if no boots are torn? I found some threads where people who just replaced their axles experienced some sloppy steering but everyone just said get an alignment. I also noticed I'm experiencing a mild vibration right before coming to a complete stop.

Stalling on the control arm replacement because when I tried before, couldn't get the axle nut off.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

It's all about the tires. I thought my suspension was completely shot b/c it did take 2 hands to keep the car on the road. I replaced all 4 tires and it went away almost completely except for it being ****ty stock suspension.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Buying new tires was the first thing I did. Tightened up the steering initially but as the tires wore in, steering was sloppy again. To me, they just dampened the effect.

Child_uv_KoRn

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, idk, since you basically replaced everything it *should* be very good handling. What size tires do you have? I went from 40 to 45 on 18" rim and it seems to have made all the difference in the world. Same brand tire, too, hankook.

blk-nx2000

did you check your rack mounts? if they are loose or badly worn it can cause bump steer. They look like swarbay mount bushings. I have never seen or worked on this year of car but i just got out of automotive school. Worth checking out since you went through all this trouble.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

You mean the bushing? It looks fine from what I can see with the passenger wheel off - no obvious tears.

blk-nx2000

ya the bushings. If you can get either a screw driver under the rack or a good grip on it and see if you can move it around at all. up and down or side to side. Try having someone move the steering wheel inside the car when your down there and see if there is movement or play on anything in the steering rack all the way through the tie rod ends. There should be zero play in all of the components. It is alot easier with someone moving the steering wheel while your under the car but not necessary.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Yeah - been wanting to try that (someone steer while another observe)....except I have no friends, lol. Oh yeah, and the bushing seemed to be mounted tight, although I do have some "play" when doing the 9&3 o'clock wheel pull test.

More I read, more I'm leaning towards control arm bushings and/or ball joints - I just gotta get down to business with this axle nut. Found this post by Matt93SE which really fits the description of my problems:

http://forums.maxima.org/1266390-post8.html

Based on his diagnosis, my tires will wear at a higher rate. This is entirely plausible as the problem "returned" after some time on the new tires.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Replacing my control arms now...takin a quick break. Got the axle nut off (after breaking my first breaker bar), had a little trouble with the balljoint nut until I figured to connect the tierod. Updates comin...

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

I only ended up replacing the passenger side control arm - and bump steer has been reduced, but not as dramatic as I expected. Probably have to wait til I do the other arm to say for sure (and get an alignment since I practically undid everything).

The old ball joint was okay, boot untorn, still held tension at the joint; the only bad thing was the minor tear of the pin link bushing. I can say that the new arm didn't swing as easier as the old (swinging meaning, pressing down on the ball joint area in an up-and-down motion) which made getting the strut back on a little harder.

Took me about 4 hours to do one side, but with the major time snags being:
- time lost by having to buy a new breaker bar after destroying my first one trying to get the axle nut off. Got a new 1/2" drive bar from Sears, and used a 36" pipe over it and let the jack raise it up. Since the jack didn't go high enough,I was able to "lift" the pipe from that position and heard that great cracking sound.

- time lost by trying to hacksaw the balljoint nut off. Since I had the tierod off, using a socket was useless trying to apply force because I had to prevent the whole hub from turning. Then had a lightbulb moment where I reconnected the tie rod, and got the nut off in an instant! Duh!

- time lost by disconnecting the pin link from the frame (4 bolts). Since I took the pin link off with the control arm, once I got the 27mm nut off, the arm slid effortlessly off the pin link. I could've left the pin link connected to the frame and just undid the 2 rear bushing bolts and slid the control arm off.

- time lost since I bent the hub at the backing plate so that the rotor wouldn't go on it

- time lost trying to install the strut & end links. Guess since the new arm is tighter, didn't hang as low as before. Ended up removing the axle to get extra height. Also had to jack up the other side of the car to get the end link back on.

All in all, I could probably do the other side in about an hour now that I know these things.

Some shots:

Pic with everything disconnected showing I undid the axle, tie rod end, end link, strut, caliper/torque member/rotor, ball joint - I probably violated "the code" with the caliper & hub hanging by the brake line/abs wire:


Pic of the old control arm's torn bushing by the pin link (pic doesn't show it, but the actual inside of the bushing was pretty intact - looks just like an outer tear):


Showing the old + new main bushing - old one seems to be okay:


New (eBay) + old arm side by side:



Another side by side:

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Word of (common sense) advice...make sure you torque stuff down to spec. I ended up forgetting to fully torque the 27mm nut down and heard metal clanging sounds when going over bumps. I guess the metal sleeve on the control arm that goes over the pin link was moving around. Tightened it to spec and it got quiet. First I thought it was the axle moving around! My torque wrench is like my new best friend now.

wyche89

did you do both the control arms yet?

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Nope, still gotta do the driver's side, but from the one I did, I can tell you that the improvement is minimal. Unless the driver-side arm is severely blown or something, I doubt the control arms (ball joints and/or bushings) are the main culprit.

The only real improvement I see is on roads that are flat for the most part:
Before: straight-line tracking about a 4/10
After: straight-line tracking about a 6/10

When I go over medium-sized bumps, there's just so much clunking & stuff that something has to be loose...and after all my attempts at figuring out the problem, looks like I am gonna have to do the rack after-all.

I'm still skeptical of my end-links though. I'm gonna remove the swaybar & end-links altogether to see if I notice anything (aside from a little more roll). So after I get the new arm on, ride swaybar-less, and still experience this crap, I'm gonna do the rack. If that doesn't fix it, I give up for good.

wyche89

sorry the control arm replacement doesnt look good.. how hard is it to replace the steering rack?

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it's that hard, just some things that might "get" you (for example, rust).

Stuff involved (to my knowledge):
- outer tie rod
- front/rear engine mounts
- cross/center member
- y-pipe
- rack mounts
- steering column stuff?
- lines & hoses

A fellow member is willing to replace mine for me, but is there ANYTHING else that I might be overlooking before I do the rack???

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Did the other control arm, and it didn't fix it, as expected. On the bright side, I can say that the new control arms are really tight as compared to the old ones and as such, the ride seems smoother. It's just those dang bumps & stuff that makes the car go crazy.


Previously I said I could save time by not undoing the link pin bolts and just doing the 27mm nut and sliding the old arm off - well, that didn't work for the driver's side because the transmission is in the way! 1) made getting to the 27mm nut with a socket impossible and 2) once I got the nut off, I couldn't slide the arm off the link pin because it still wasn't enough room.

After 3 different trips to AutoZone, Home Depot, and finally Sears, I had a contraption that allowed me to remove the 27mm nut:
- adjustable (up to 30mm) wrench
- a 12" long, 1.5" thick cheater bar "adapter" (just a steel pipe)
- 36" long 1.5" thick cheater bar (just a steel pipe)





After getting the nut off, I loosened the link pin bolts til I had enough room to slide the old arm off & clear the transmission. Those bolts are a real hassle, even with a ratchet.




Control arms side by side:





All in all, the new control arms just have tighter bushings. That's the only thing I can see as compared to my old ones.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Also took some videos of the 3/9 o'clock wheel shake test. It never had this much play!

Video 1: 3/9 test - front view

Video 2: 3/9 test - back view

Ghost_54

iTrader: (13)

After seeing your video's of the front and rear tire movement I understand your concern about bump steer ... that amount of movement is just nuts ... only wish I had more to offer in the way of help, as you have already swapped out the things that I would have suspected

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I knew I wasn't crazy when I was saying it's not normal! When I first did the 3/9 shake test back in April, there used to be a little play (like only 50% as dramatic as what you see in the video).

On the flip-side, I've learned a lot (and is evident to me based on my posts earlier on in the thread)...and the stuff I've replaced are things a 135k mile car probably needs anyway.

Guess I should update 'the list':

1) new tires
2) new inner tie rods (moog)
3) new outer tie rods (moog)
4) MULTIPLE alignments (firestone)
5) new swaybar end-links (moog)
6) new swaybar/subframe bushings (moog)
7) new struts (KYB GR2)
8) new strut mounts+bearings (monroe)
9) new control arms (no-names)

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Well guys, after a long drawn-out process...I'm convinced it's the rack. See the video below.

I was convinced to determine where the play was after the 3/9 videos I did above. I slid the boot of the passenger-side tie rod off a bit so I could see the tie rod/rack connection. The tie rod connection is solid.

The video confirms the movement is from within the rack. The mounting of the rack was solid as well. So I guess the problem was just an internally-worn rack. Won't say for sure 'til I get the new rack installed though.

Bad rack video

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Funny thing is I could've found that out without replacing anything, lol....

wyche89

lol.. that sucks... i hope the problem is fixed after you replace it though! see my wheels dont have play like yours do, but the car seems to exhibit the same symptoms.. i'm gonna check my rack too.. nice work man!

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

I hope this is the problem. I just want someone on here to confirm that the play they see is in fact the rack. Anyone?

FWIW, the "play" during the 3/9 test was not as extreme as it is now.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Took my car to a fellow member who confirmed that something is amiss with the rack...but that it might have to do with something in the steering column, like the joint that connects to the rack.

When the steering lock is engaged, I can still turn the steering wheel about an inch (say 12 degrees?) before it hits the lock. Anyone know if this is normal? How much play should the steering wheel have when the steering lock is engaged?

kukx30de

iTrader: (4)

I have been following your thread for a while now.

I ran into a similar issue back in 07 when i had first bought my 01 gle.

Here is the list of items i did:
- new lca's
- new inner and outer tie rods
- new springs and struts all around

the one thing is bump steer is def present in my car since i have h&r... I also note some of the symptoms you are mentioning. i.e. car very easily follows the curvature of the road. For some reason roads where my 3 series will track straight without my hands on the wheel, my maxima will want to go right or left. I have simply attributed that to the age of the car and the fact that its a maxima and not a bmw LOL

I checked the rack play like in your video and i dont have any play at all. I checked the steering lock play and I think I have maybe 10 degrees.. so I think you are fine there too.

You may be looking at the rack itself, but my suggestion is at this point, pay nissan the $90 diagnostic to get root cause since you can hold them accountable.

btw.. i just turned 180K this weekend so i have about 40K miles on my new parts listed above

good luck .. you're working through an issue most of the folks on the board probably have but are not aware of.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

I assume h&r are springs for lowering? If that's the case, I think you're more susceptible to bump steer since the tie rod angle isn't flat (with the control arm) on flat road (if that makes sense) & causes some toe-out on uneven road. Sorta like this:



I guess my problem was more slop in steering vs. bump steer though to me it's all the same - you go over a bump/uneven road and you get auto steering.


Thanks for checking that...however you mentioned you have bump steer! What if on a car that doesn't suffer the problems entailed, the steering wheel play while locked is less minimal?

$90 is a lotta money nowadays when you're not working...and for the time when I paid them $123 dollars strictly for diagnosing & it happened to be of minimal value in the end, I said I was through with the dealership.

Since I've already bought a rack (and can't return it) I'm just gonna throw it on & hope it fixes it. But if it doesn't, I have to say that I'm done debugging (until I at least get a job & start making some money).

Thanks to being involved with computer programming, it's hard to give up not being able to solve a problem. Heck, at the beginning of this thread I was scared to install struts and didn't even wanna touch the rack-and look what I'm doing now. However, in the process, I've become more knowledgeable (though I still consider myself a newbie at cars).

If this rack is bad, it would be bad due to worn gears vs. I guess the more common hydraulic seal failures & whatnot.

The only other things I can think of (how many times have I said that...) are:
a) steering column - rack connection (that u-joint down there)
b) possibly subframe bolts/bushings (LCA looked to be moving in one of those videos I took)

...but that stuff will have to wait.

I Driver

I have read your entire post and give you credit for persistence. My I35 exhibits similar symptoms but not as bad as yours. I will be taking a close look at the rack. I am wondering if having hydraulic pressure (i.e. engine running) on the rack would take the slop away and would that mean the rack is OK? Also my car rides too softly and bottoms out easily on speed bumps and RR tracks so I am thinking of putting in stiffer springs. Did you notice much change in the ride with only new struts? I previously had a '98 I30t which had none of these problems. That makes this car even more annoying.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

ABout having the engine running...it's possible, but never tried it...will see what that does; but I think the wheels will just turn effortlessly since the lock won't be engaged. As far as the change with only new struts: there was improvement, I can say that. The car is able to push into bumps better yielding a more damped ride. But that steering wheel still goes crazy.

Something I noticed in my case:

- engine off, steering lock engaged, rotating steering wheel: wheels move

So, even with the steering lock engaged, when I turn the steering wheel (as far as it'll go before it hits the lock), the wheels actually move. This means you can still steer the car while the lock is engaged (albeit only a couple degrees though). Normal or not?

Maybe this confirms that something in the steering wheel -> rack linkage is actually the culprit. The bad thing is that there's almost no threads dealing with steering lock/lower-joint/pinion problems, everyone just seems to have a leaking rack. This stuff really requires two people (someone at the steering wheel, another at the rack/lower-joint/column). So, I feel the rack is fine, rack mounting is fine, but something from the steering column up to and maybe including the pinion is where the problem lies. Any ideas on tests that I can conduct?

On top of all this, got an alignment and learned my cross-caster is off....as well as my rear-right toe being off. This just amplifies the effect even more including making my car pull left all the time now.

ridinwitha35

iTrader: (1)

Yup, this damn thread is back...and really nothing has changed except my thoughts.

#1 was told of the possibility that my subframe->frame bushings may be bad but I really have no way to check them since they're barely visible

#2 more convinced that the rack is the problem.

Test A: both front wheels off the ground, key in to disable steering lock, "steering" by moving the wheels with my bare hands = so easy a 5 year old could do it. Then started the car so that the PS pump is up...no difference whatsoever in force required to toe-in/out the wheels.

Test B: moving steering wheel back & forth while steering lock engaged. Then doing the 3/9 test at the wheel for a comparison: Video here

Test C: 3/9 test at the wheels but with steering wheel view: Video here

I think I'm gonna just bite the dust & pay a shop to install the rack sometime this week. Was hoping to find someone who'd do it for half of what a shop would want but no takers.