2k2se6spd

I have seen many posts on speakers, but am still unclear.

Are the speakers included in the upgraded Bose Stereo package in the 2002 Maxima upgradeable???

Some say that they have the amps built into the speakers, which leads me to believe that they can not be just swapped out for better quality 6 3/4" speakers like in most cars.

Are the amps built into the speakers? Are they standard 4 ohm speakers so that keeping the head unit, etc. is possible and the speakers can be just dropped in like normal?

Thanks.

Maximum Velocity

iTrader: (3)

I know that the tweeters are 4 ohms. I dunno about the rest of the speakers though. You might wanna call Dave B and ask him.

xydavid

My understanding is this: the amps are built into the speakers, the speakers are typically 1 ohm, they cannot be used with another head unit without an adapter (and they usually won't sound right), and that you can't use non-Bose speakers with the head unit designed for it.

Now, the Bose party-line is that the speakers and head units are custom designed specifically for that model car so that even if you replaced a Bose speaker with a Bose speaker from another model car, it wouldn't sound right. Whether that's all true or marketing fluff, I dunno!

I think most ppl who upgrade, rip the head unit and speakers out and start over.

Maximum Velocity

iTrader: (3)

I originally thought this too since this is how the 4th gen and before Maxes were. But for the 5th gen, in the 2000-01 at least, the 6 1/2" Bose speakers are not individually amplified. I don't know why they did this, but the speakers are amplified by an external amplifier. Therefore I'm pretty sure the speakers are changeable. HOwever, I don't know if this is the case with the 2k2, although it probably is. I would call Dave B for further claification on what the Ohm rating on the 2k2 speakers are.

ABS

I am also really interested in knowing the answers to these questions about driver impedance. I would point out that the tweeters could be a higher impedance than the woofers to help provide a more balanced output. Typically tweeters are more responsive than woofers (higher db/watt) however lower impedance drivers are also typically more responsive. To correct for a highly responsive tweeter, in-line resistors are frequently used. However, I could imagine a scenario where Bose used a higher impedance tweeter (no need for a resistor now) and a lower impedance woofer, properly matched to help produce a more balanced output. This is just a guess. On the other hand, if all drivers are 4 ohm impedance, then that is great news. We should be able to upgrade our drivers quite easily.

The only remaining question that needs to be answered pertains to the inputs for the amplifier. Are the current head units like those on the older Bose systems with differential grounds and low voltage or did Nissan/Bose finally realize that people like to upgrade their systems and use a standard ground with 3 volt output or more? The answer to this question is critical for finding the correct strategy for upgrading the stock amplifier in the bose system (the one in the trunk).

Has anyone already upgraded the system in a 2K2 Maxima?

xydavid

that's good news. I wonder about the woofer... So far I don't think it puts out nearly as much bass as my 2k Max did. I can actually set it to 5 now. In the Max, anything past 3, and your teeth started vibrating

ehughes

I installed MB Quart separates in the front doors...direct swap. I left the factory tweets and installed the new ones just above the front part of the door panel the triangular plastic peice. I had to trim the factory plastic speaker backing to accomodate the mids. The MB's crossover is mounted inside the door panel (only place big enough). I took out my factory "sub", mounting plate and all, to help port air from the two 10"s I put in the trunk. The stock power from the headunit, Bose upgrade, is perfect for the MB's. It is crystal clear and sounds great with the new bass !!!

I understand that the only 1 ohm load is in the factory amp for the sub. Not sure though. Switch out your factory fronts with some good separates (i.e. MB, Polk, etc..), you won't regret it!

Good luck.

ehughes

Sorry. I forgot to mention I have a 2k2 with the upgraded bose cd-6.

ABS

This is really awesome news. I'll be able to keep the factory look and improve the sound . . . now I just have to decide on some drivers . . . I want a balanced sound with more bass performance but not too bright. Any recommendations? I friend has the Focal 5.25 Kevlar setup and they sound extremely good, but they have a very "forward" sound. I might want something more laid back like Dynaudio.

ABS

This is really awesome news. I'll be able to keep the factory look and improve the sound . . . now I just have to decide on some drivers . . . I want a balanced sound with more bass performance but not too bright. Any recommendations? I friend has the Focal 5.25 Kevlar setup and they sound extremely good, but they have a very "forward" sound. I might want something more laid back like Dynaudio - but without the price if its possible.

2k2se6spd

Thank you ehughes. Not only an answer, but from someone that actually did it!

I was afraid that I would get in there and the amps would be on each individual speaker - what a nightmare.

The only other thing is what model of MBQs did you use? I know with some installs the depth can be an issue, nad Crutchfield has the depth kind of shallow at 2 3/8" for the fronts for the 2001 - but what do they know? Since I will be keeping the stock head unit and amplification, speaker sensitivuty will be an issue (dB level).

I have access to Rockford Fosgate at cost, so I will probably go with their mid line Fanatic X components if they fit - 2 5/8" depth ?!?!

ehughes

ABS and 2k2se6spd..I am not too familar with all the brands and their particular sounds. I went with the MB Quart Reference Series 6 1/2"s Separates due to some friend's good experiences. The tweeter has limited adustability as far as positioning...i.e. its not "aimable?". But I think they sound very good. I was surprised as to the clarity of sound. I would like even more mid-bass, although the MBs are tight. I am considering adding another amp with some very clean power, say 4x80w or so to power the front MBs and add another set for the rear doors. However, running new speaker wire to the front doors does not thrill me. But, I can't seem to stop....need sound...Bass...sound...need help!!!!

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

This is interesting. On the Mercedes Bose systems, the bose amps are still one per speaker like the 4th gen Maximas, but, the amps are located in one unit behind the dashboard. Perhaps the 2K2 Maxima has this setup now with the Bose system. The drawback to that setup, though, is if one amp goes, you have to replace the entire set of amps.

DW

ehughes

Despite my "good" news earlier in this thread, see my new Thread on this issue, "DO NOT direct swap front speakers!" . I may have bad news for those wanting the direct swap.

ABS

I have privately e-mailed EHughes and determined that his problems with one of the MB Quart drivers was actually a wiring issue of some type. I still have not upgraded my drivers, but it would appear that an upgrade can be performed without any major problems so long as the drivers are at least 2 Ohms impedance.

ehughes

Right on ABS. Sorry for not updating everyone. This was a lesson in check all of your connections...twice! Unfortunately, mine were way up in the dash and not easily accessible (wiring harness to the PD4). A direct swap should be fine though.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

So, in other words, you can not do a direct swap of aftermakret speakers with the BOSE system. You need an adapter like the PD-4 as a bridge between the BOSE system and the aftermarket speakers.

DW

ehughes

No interface needed for speaker swap. I have the PD-4 to supply signal to my amps. At first, I ran the MB's off the stock headunit, no interface, with no problems other than my ignorant @ss not checking the connections. I have since installed an Alpine amp and ran new wires to the doors with another set of MB's on the rear doors. I just can't stop!!!

Tony Fernandes

It is my understanding through this forum and others, my local stereo installer, and emailing Bose directly that this is *hopefully* the scoop:

The 5th gens (I don't see any reason to think that the 2K2s are any different) have one amplifier, not one on each individual speaker. However, the impedence of the speakers are still rediculously low and therefore makes simple swapping not adviseable. I've heard that the tweeters are normal 4-ohm, and this sounds plausible, but I wouldn't bet on it. All someone needs to do is get a ohmmeter and test the speakers individually at the posts. I would do this but it's COLD out there and I'm waiting for better weather (AKA Spring) to arrive before upgrading the system. Either way, whether the speakers have their own amps or if there's only one...the speaker impedence is the limiting factor. I've tried emailing Bose about the specifics of the system and keep on getting generic, alhough personal & brief, responses that are little help. At least they're not ignoring me, but then again they're not much help.

I did purchase some wiring harnesses from my local installer. I plan on using the stock head unit, adding my own amps, and replacing all speakers and the sub. According to him, the harness taps directly into the head unit BEFORE the amp so you're basically getting RCA-type signals (even though they're puny wires and NOT RCA cables) that the harness converts to RCA so you can add amps. I've heard all sorts of stories about people going out and buying line level/RCA converters from Radio Shack and all I can say is go out and spend the extra money (about $90) for both harnesses (front and rear channels) and the box that has the RCA outputs. They're made specifically for the Bose/Nissan systems and in my opinion, will probably last longer and have less of a chance of screwing up on you down the road.

You're still going to need another amp for the sub, but I plan on using one that has a dash-mounted sub-level controller so I can adjust the sub volume. I'll be using two 4-channel amps. The first amp will drive the front speakers (I'll be using Focal coaxials) and some Dynaudio tweeters in the a-pillars. Half of the amp will drive the Focals and the other half will drive the Dyns. I'll be using the amps built in xover to actively run the Dyns so I can set the xover frequency and the output level to my liking. That way, the tweeters will only provide ambience near the windshield and not take away from the Focals in the doors.

The second amp will drive the rear speakers and the sub. Then I'll just use the sub controller at the dash to adjust the sub output.

Hope all this helps someone out there.

Tony

ehughes

Doesn't Linkmeup.com have the harness for $50? I bought it for my 2k2 in conjunction with the pd4 interface ($$$). If anyone is considering adding amps to the stock headunit I would do as Tony suggested and get a good harness. Check with Linkmeup.com too.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

The harnesses that Linkmeup sells only connects to their products.

DW

ehughes

Your correct.

Tony Fernandes

These are what I purchased. They are all made by PAC (Pacific Accessory Corporation).

OEM-1, $40. This is a black rectangular box, about the size of a pack of cigarettes. It installs in the middle of the two below wiring harnesses. It has two multi-pinned connectors, one on each side and then 4 adjustable POTS on top for each channel, left and right front and left and right rear. This appears to be a generic part usuable with any stereo system.

ADD-NIS2, $30. This is just a bunch of wires with a bunch of multi-pinned connectors on them. I imagine once I take the stereo out of the dash it will all make sense. One "side" hooks up to the stereo and the other to the OEM-1...I think. This is specifically made to interface with the Bose/Nissan combo.

AMP-RCA, $20. This is a group of wires than connect on the other side of the OEM-1 box via a multi-pinned connector and then terminate into 4 female RCA cords. This is also a generic part, to be used in conjuction with the above two.

Looking at the instructions it seems extremely simple and most importantly, NO CUTTING ANY WIRES.

Tony

studman

Ok, here's what I did. I used the PAC SNI-35 (speaker-level to RCA convertor (available at Circuit City)) to tap the rear level speaker outs right off the back of my radio. http://www.installdr.com has the wiring diagram, but note that the color codes DON'T match. Use the actual positional reference instead. I took the PAC SNI-35 and turned the adjustable level controls up 1/2 way. Then ran that to an external amplifier with RCA inputs. Then ran wiring from the amp to the speakers in the car. As for mounting issues, Crutchfield can give you the correct speaker models that will fit in the doors. I did not use the BOSE amp, mainly because I wasn't impressed with its sound to begin with. I replaced all 4 door speakers, 2 tweeters in the pillars, left the rear sub alone, and added 2 12" subs in the trunk. It took 3 days to do it all, and I didn't drive my car during that time, since it was almost completely dismantled to install the power and wiring. Check with DaveB to see if you can use aftermarket speakers with the BOSE amp, but from everything I have read, it's only 1 ohm from the headunit to the speakers, except the tweeters. I have ordered the Service Manual on CD-Rom, and will check the specs once it comes in.

2002 SE 6-speed loaded w/o NAV
Clear corners
Fog/Corner Rewire
and a few other small things...

ABS

Tony and Studman,

It seems to me that you are both using the speaker level outputs from the Bose amp in the trunk to feed your LOC's. Do you feel this is better or worse than what EHughes did when he used the LinkMeUp PD4 to take the signal directly from the head unit BEFORE reaching the Bose amplifier?

Tony,

I love the sound of Dynaudio tweeters. Why not just use Focal 6.5" kevlar mid-woofers in your doors and the Dynaudio tweeters on the A-Pillar? I bet the Dyn's will sound better than the Focal tweeters ever would and the Focal woofers will produce better upper midrange with a "dust cap" instead of a tweeter in the center of the cone . . . The only disadvantage would be that you won't have a single phase coherent point source - but you also wouldn't have phase coherency once you add the Dyn tweeters . . . Just my 2 cents . . .

As a side note, just for kicks I pulled the Bose amp out of my car and opened it up. I discovered that it actually uses transistors (not IC's) for the primary amplification circuit (which is a VERY good thing). However, the amp appears to also include 5 separate IC based programmable pre-processors. If I had to guess, these pre-processors are probably programmed differently for various Bose implimentations using various drivers in disparate vehicles. I took some digital pictures of the amp after disassembly and I will post them as soon as I have a chance.

I wonder what the pre-processors are actually doing to the signals? If my theory is correct, using the speaker level outputs from the Bose amp to drive an after market amp could be a VERY bad idea since the signal will have been boosted or reduced in certain frequency bands to compensate for the deficiencies of the crappy Bose paper drivers and also to adjust for the acoustics of the vehicle itself . . . also, the IC based pre-processors could be very noisy . .

Any thoughts?

Andy

Tony Fernandes

Andy,

You really seem to know your stuff!!

The setup I plan on doing should be getting the signal BEFORE the Bose amp, not after. I wouldn't even consider tapping into it after, due to exactly what you mentioned (Bose's "special" equalization due to their crappy speakers) plus just the general loss of SQ in general due to the high-level signal.

I don't care for having the mid-woofer and tweeter separated more than 6 inches for the exact reason you state. Therefore, I thought I would try the coax route, which I've never done before. And then use the Dyn tweeter, which I already have, just for ambience. I don't want to cut holes in my doors. If this were not the case, I would just install the Dyn 360 system I currently have in my doors. The 360 system has the 8-inch mid-woofer, 3-inch midrange, and 1-inch tweeter. I would want them relatively close to one another, but the only way to do this is to start cutting the door. I'm not totally opposed to this idea, but it sure sucks when you want to sell the car and keep your stereo equipment!

I wouldn't mind seeing the inside of the Bose amp. Although, I wouldn't know what the heck I was looking at inside like you do. I'm just a car stereo freak, not an electronic freak!! BTW, where is the amp located?

Tony

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I also have the PD4. I replaced my BOSE headunit with a Clarion 815. What I've found is interesting. The 'active EQ' that the bose systems has seems to be in the head unit. Originilly, with the stock BOSE, you could sense an automatic loudness adjustment happening at all volumes. At low volumes, loudness was increased, at high volumes, loudness was decreased. Now that is gone with my new setup. I have to manually push the loudness button on the new Clarion unit, and it is obviously not tuned to the system at all. Makes the bass boomy. Instead, I either leave the tone controls flat, or custom set my loudness using bass, mid and treble. The new Clarion unit is a lot more detailed in its sound reproduction than the original Bose headunit. But, the Bose headunit had the slightly better frequency response, too. It was a bit smoother sounding.

DW

studman

Tony and Studman,

It seems to me that you are both using the speaker level outputs from the Bose amp in the trunk to feed your LOC's. Do you feel this is better or worse than what EHughes did when he used the LinkMeUp PD4 to take the signal directly from the head unit BEFORE reaching the Bose amplifier?

>>> Actually, I grabbed the line level outputs from the back of the head unit, BEFORE it hit the amp in the trunk. I had originally tried the speaker outs in the trunk amp, but didn't like the way it sounded. So I used the connection right behind the head unit. Mine had a little crackle in it the first time I installed it, but that was because I had the gain on the PAC SNI-35 too loud. It says to do it 2/3 of the way, but really you only need 1/2.

dwapenyi: I noticed this as well, since I have my subs tapped to the rear speaker level. As I increase the volume on the head unit, the loudness of my sub increases as well, but there is definitely a noticeable decrease in the loudness curve. I am checking around to see if there is a way to bypass that part of the head unit, as there is one full connector that is not documented anywhere (at least on my 2k2 Bose head unit)

ehughes

Studman...Have you tried removing your stock sub with the entire mounting plate, then listen to the difference in Bass to your cabin. I tried it both ways when I installed two 10's in my trunk (custom unported box). Apparently, by removing the stock sub w/mounting plate, you add a sort of port to the cab. Let me know what you think?

Tony Fernandes

Since you tried both, I am interested in what differences you heard. If it were me I would try it both ways, and just guessing I would say it would sound better with the sub and plate out. Realistically, the bass pretty much goes through the shelf and back seats anyway and the hole will probably not make that much difference unless you positioned the sub directly beneath the hole. BTW, the best way to mount any sub in the trunk is with the sub venting directly into the passenger cabin. I think I can manage to make a mounting plate out of MDF on the bottom of where the sub used to be that is just slighty larger than the hole and mount a free-air 10-inch sub that will fire straight up just like the stock sub. I'm going to use carpet foam as a vibration barrier between the MDF and the underside of the package shelf, and then seal the outside edges with silicone. Then I'll completly seal the package shelf with damping material so the trunk space will be an "almost" sealed enclosure. Of course, I will apply the damping to the entire trunk as well. It should sound fairly decent.

I could be wrong, but the hole in the shelf left by the sub doesn't actually make a "port", but just a hole for the sound the vent into the passenger cabin better. A port actually accentuates certain frequencies inside a speaker enclosure based on the size of the box and the properties of the sub(s). It's like blowing across the mouth of a bottle and getting that resonating sound. **I'm not saying you don't know all this, I'm just spurting out info. for whoever wants to know!!**

Tony

ABS

DWAPENYI:

Thanks for your insight into this. Am I understanding you correctly in that you replaced the stock Bose HU with the aftermarket Clarion but continued to use the stock Bose amp in the trunk (by using the PD4) and the stock Bose drivers? Once you did this, the "automatic loudness adjustment" went away all together? Or did you just rewire your speakers direct to the new aftermarket Clarion HU to get the "automatic loudness adjustment" to go away?

As you know, this is a really important question since automatic loudness adjustments in the stock Bose HU could cause a lot of problems with aftermarket amps and drivers, etc. Thanks for your insight and help!

Andy

ABS

Tony,

To answer your question, the amp is a small, black metal box located under the rear deck, in the trunk. You can't miss it. This unit appears to have pre-processing for all channels, including the subwoofer channel and also has amps for all drivers except the sub-woofer. Each set of front speakers (tweeters and woofers) are driven off one circuit which implies that there is a passive x-over mounted up front for at least the tweeter (probably just a single capacitor for a 6db/octave roll-off). There is most likely some type of low pass electronic x-over built into this Bose black box to feed the proper signals to the sub-woofer. The sub has its own self contained amp physically mounted with the driver.

I still plan on posting the links to pics of the amp but won't have a chance until after the New Year, sorry.

Good luck with whatever you decide as far as your front drivers go. Dynaudio makes some awesome drivers. Focal are really good too. I'm sure whatever solution you pursue, you will have good sound. You might consider running the Focal's first and listening to them before going to the trouble of adding the Dynaudio tweeters - the Focal's might give you enough high frequency output on their own. Also, you don't run into any of the driver separation concerns that you had if you do this . . . let me know how it turns out . . .

Andy

ABS

Thanks for clarifying! How do you like the solution you set up? Does it sound ok?

ABS

Studman, is the x-tra connector on the HU the one that everyone talks about being used for the Trip Computer?

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

ABS,

I have my clarion going (via line out RCAs)to the pd4 which then feeds the still original bose amps/speakers. The amplifier in the Clarion is not being used at all. By the way, my car is a 4th gen, so, un-like the 5th gen, i don't have a bose sub-woofer, just four 6.5s all around and 2 tweeters in the front.

DW

ehughes

I noticed a tighter feel with the sub/plate removed. Your right about not really being a port (tuned), just searching for a word. I am not real happy with the "tightness" of my bass anyway. Nothing to do with the rear deck though. Maybe an amp issue. I am no expert on all this stuff...but learning.